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Old 07-10-2019, 01:59 PM #26
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I fundamentally disagree, but it would take me more time than I have right now to elaborate. I might later . I guess all I'll say in the shortest terms is, he's mistaking "completely different" with "inferior".
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Old 07-10-2019, 02:02 PM #27
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What is his definition of "cinema" though. In my mind "cinema" is exactly these kinds of movies, ones that you don't want to watch at home because the action needs to be on a big screen etc They're entertainment pure and simple. Superhero movies are never going to really be that deep or earth shattering but so what, you need a balance aswell
This.

I cannot stand half the superhero type movies, and have not seen many marvel stuff (unless gavin has it on and am half watching) but of course they are cinema..hell, possibly moreso than some Scorsese films!

I agree he could have just told the truth and said..I don't like Marvel movis, instead of this nonsense
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Old 07-10-2019, 02:24 PM #28
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The social relevance of Black Panther could also lead to it being a film that's highly valued down the line, especially from a historic point of view.
Not to be "that guy", but what social relevance? There have been black superhero movies for decades tbh
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Old 07-10-2019, 02:45 PM #29
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I fundamentally disagree, but it would take me more time than I have right now to elaborate. I might later . I guess all I'll say in the shortest terms is, he's mistaking "completely different" with "inferior".
Nobody ain't got time for one of your novels.
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Old 07-10-2019, 02:49 PM #30
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I'd be interested to hear!
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Old 07-10-2019, 02:52 PM #31
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I'd be interested to hear!
I'd make a packed lunch and a flask a tea for the event if I was you.
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Old 07-10-2019, 02:52 PM #32
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Not to be "that guy", but what social relevance? There have been black superhero movies for decades tbh
It was the first comic book film to have a predominantly black cast.

Apart from the Blade films, what other black superhero films have there been?
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Old 07-10-2019, 02:53 PM #33
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It was the first comic book film to have a predominantly black cast.

Apart from the Blade films, what other black superhero films have there been?
Only one I can think of is hancock..if hes meant to be a superhero
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Old 07-10-2019, 02:57 PM #34
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It was the first comic book film to have a predominantly black cast.

Apart from the Blade films, what other black superhero films have there been?
I can't remember its name but there was the one where the teacher got hit by a meteor which gave him powers, and Blankman. They both had a mostly black cast (if I remember right, I've only seen each once).

Spawn? Who's that guy that looks like Venom?
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Old 07-10-2019, 02:58 PM #35
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Not to be "that guy", but what social relevance? There have been black superhero movies for decades tbh
And most of them are blaxpoitation films or films that take inspiration from that era. What makes Black Panther so innovative was the fact that it didn't rely on the blaxploitation angle and it was a film that embraced culture and spoke of issues in a way that's never been handled in a mainstream superhero film before. It's difficult to explain but, in the US in particular, it's a very important film because it bucked a lot of trends that people used to devalue black actors and films with minority casts. Go back even a few years ago and most studios would have never gone for a big budget Blockbuster without a white actor on the poster because they wouldn't believe it to be profitable.

Black Panther showed that you could tell a successful authentic story featuring black characters and culture that didn't rely on stereotypes or belittlement. Black Panther's critical, financial success along with the adoration of the audience, when you consider all the factors, was unheard of. If the MCU ever does come to an end, Black Panther will likely be one of the films that will remain relevant and beloved.
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Old 07-10-2019, 03:06 PM #36
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And most of them are blaxpoitation films or films that take inspiration from that era. What makes Black Panther so innovative was the fact that it didn't rely on the blaxploitation angle and it was a film that embraced culture and spoke of issues in a way that's never been handled in a mainstream superhero film before. It's difficult to explain but, in the US in particular, it's a very important film because it bucked a lot of trends that people used to devalue black actors and films with minority casts.
Okay, I'd never thought of it like that before
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Old 07-10-2019, 03:06 PM #37
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A lot of the cast have acknowledged Stanley Kubrick's behaviour during the filming of The Shining and there's plenty of pieces that go into the history of that film.



Basically during the (very long) shoot for The Shining, Stanley Kubrick bullied Shelley Duvall relentlessly and isolated her from the cast and crew to make sure no one could comfort her or help her. He belittled her talents repeatedly, forced her to do over a hundred takes for shots for no good reason and was generally a sociopathic piece of **** towards her. A lot of her acting in that film isn't believed to be acting but her literally having breakdowns under the stress Kubrick heaped on her. She legitimately had to keep bottles of water close by at all times because her tears left her dehydrated because she was forced to cry for twelve hours a day. I'm pretty sure there's other stuff that I'm forgetting but he was generally evil towards her which is strange because he chose to cast her against Jack Nicholson's advice who wanted Jessica Lange to be cast instead. I believe it was because Kubrick probably knew he couldn't have done to Lange what he did to Duvall.

She never really acted much after that film was done and the experience has been attributed to driving her off the edge as she suffers from mental issues now.

I can't really appreciate his talent in the light of what he did to Shelley Duvall.

...one of the scenes filmed was a ‘record breaking scene..’...for any known dialogue scene.../...it had over 120 takes with her swinging a bat at Jack Nicholson...it was reported that she was sobbing hysterically between the takes...with Kubrick telling others not to speak to her...and then he finally got the ‘reality’ of his shot...when he emotionally drained her and isolated her from any comfort...
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Old 07-10-2019, 03:08 PM #38
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Only one I can think of is hancock..if hes meant to be a superhero
He's more of an Anti Hero I would have thought
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Old 07-10-2019, 03:09 PM #39
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Black Panther has a rating of 7.3 on IMDB

That doesn't sound like it was overly impressive with the public.

Not seen it myself, so I couldn't tell you anything about it.
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Old 07-10-2019, 03:10 PM #40
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...having just watched Avengers: Endgame...I would completely disagree with him, there is a huge depth to it, so many threads running through it and a huge stretch of emotions throughout...it stretches you from one side of the emotional plain to the other...it’s surely a movie that for me would require a few watches to completely absorb...that wouldn’t be a definition of any kind of ‘shallow’ movie...
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Old 07-10-2019, 03:10 PM #41
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I think I get (and agree with) what he's saying: they're largely crowdpleasers and meant to wow people in the same sense that fireworks displays and theme parks are. I'm sure there are thousands of people who take the same sort of emotional impact from these films as others do with the likes of The Departed/The Godfather/No Country for Old Men etc... but they're usually teenagers

This whole thing will be spun out of proportion though and made to sound as if he's this horribly bitter bloke with a contempt for the state of the film industry when he's, presumably, quite unbothered and happy with his success
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Old 07-10-2019, 03:11 PM #42
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Only one I can think of is hancock..if hes meant to be a superhero
...I would say that Hancock is an anti hero...
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Old 07-10-2019, 03:11 PM #43
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He's more of an Anti Hero I would have thought
...and snap......yeah what Niamh said...
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Old 07-10-2019, 03:13 PM #44
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Black Panther has a rating of 7.3 on IMDB

That doesn't sound like it was overly impressive with the public.

Not seen it myself, so I couldn't tell you anything about it.
IMDb is a hard thing to gauge because nowadays most films (especially popular ones) have a particular reactionary movement from snobs/web bros.

Every time there's a movie that comes out now with some level of tokenism ("all black cast! first gay superhero! women produced/directed 85% of the movie!") there's usually a counter-movement from the anti-PC brigade that'll give it a 1/10 without even having seen the movie. The female remake of the Ghostbusters was the most notable recent example: it was a perfectly "fine" movie, nothing amazing but nothing terrible either, but meninists took it upon themselves to decry it as the worst thing since the Holocaust.

Edit: even the films that most people agree are amazing/classics, you'll find a bunch of trolls giving it 1/10s to make sure its total score ends up falling below a movie they're trying to champion
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Old 07-10-2019, 03:17 PM #45
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I think I get (and agree with) what he's saying: they're largely crowdpleasers and meant to wow people in the same sense that fireworks displays and theme parks are. I'm sure there are thousands of people who take the same sort of emotional impact from these films as others do with the likes of The Departed/The Godfather/No Country for Old Men etc... but they're usually teenagers

This whole thing will be spun out of proportion though and made to sound as if he's this horribly bitter bloke with a contempt for the state of the film industry when he's, presumably, quite unbothered and happy with his success


...I don’t think he seems bitter or contemptuous in any way but I don’t agree with what he’s saying because the Marvel movies of today...as in recent years...are still an unknown in terms of their general value to the film industry...he’s generalising Marvel in a way that he wouldn’t want his own movies to be generalised...and he would have had to have watched every one as well, I wonder if he has because there is no analysis of the movies in any way...just sweeping statements...
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Old 07-10-2019, 03:23 PM #46
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IMDb is a hard thing to gauge because nowadays most films (especially popular ones) have a particular reactionary movement from snobs/web bros.

Every time there's a movie that comes out now with some level of tokenism ("all black cast! first gay superhero! women produced/directed 85% of the movie!") there's usually a counter-movement from the anti-PC brigade that'll give it a 1/10 without even having seen the movie. The female remake of the Ghostbusters was the most notable recent example: it was a perfectly "fine" movie, nothing amazing but nothing terrible either, but meninists took it upon themselves to decry it as the worst thing since the Holocaust.

Edit: even the films that most people agree are amazing/classics, you'll find a bunch of trolls giving it 1/10s to make sure its total score ends up falling below a movie they're trying to champion
Maybe, although I'd expect they have a system that can identify trolling.

I still think it's the best rating system online for films. I've found it more helpful than Rotten Tomatoes in finding a film I like. Although the likely hood is that more guys use it more than girls, so guy type films will likely score higher.

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Old 07-10-2019, 03:24 PM #47
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Hmm yeah, been ages since I watched Hancock, but from bits I remember, you are likely right
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Old 07-10-2019, 03:29 PM #48
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Maybe, although I'd expect they have a system that can identify trolling.

I still think it's the best rating system online for films. I've found it more helpful than Rotten Tomatoes in finding a film I like. Although the likely hood is that more guys use it more than girls, so guy type films will likely score higher.
Why would you think more guys than girls use it?
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Old 07-10-2019, 03:35 PM #49
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Why would you think more guys than girls use it?
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...imed-at-women/

Hes probably right

Seventy percent of IMDb TV show raters are men, according to my analysis, and that results in shows with predominantly female audiences getting screwed

Just a blog really, but makes sense.

Also makes sense that men deliberately sabotage films/shows that are 'aimed' at women. Though its surely pointless to be so spiteful..
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Old 07-10-2019, 03:38 PM #50
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Black Panther has a rating of 7.3 on IMDB

That doesn't sound like it was overly impressive with the public.

Not seen it myself, so I couldn't tell you anything about it.
IMDB is a terrible barometer to measure a film's worth since it's infested with trolls and the like. I remember reading yesterday about one film in particular on that website in which the top reviews were overtly racist and had statements like 'This film would be better if it had less *insert racial slur here*'.
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