[Swan]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It's just a sad reality that white male privilege means there are a much larger number of white men in positions of power. It's not really ironic... It's built into every aspect of society.

Well it is ironic because Labour supporters (gotta be half) are fighting against this kinda social structure. Also, a multi millionaire 'sir' cannot possibly identify with the plights of the working class, the poor, the struggling, the people living paycheck to paycheck.

Rebecca Long-Bailey was the much better option imo.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Swan

Well it is ironic because Labour supporters (gotta be half) are fighting against this kinda social structure. Also, a multi millionaire 'sir' cannot possibly identify with the plights of the working class, the poor, the struggling, the people living paycheck to paycheck.

Rebecca Long-Bailey was the much better option imo.

He might not identify but he can and does sympathise and have the intelligence to understand how he could as leader work to improve life chances in the UK by lifting people out of poverty.
Personally I would've preferred RLB too, but she was painted as far too corbynesque :/

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Swan

Well it is ironic because Labour supporters (gotta be half) are fighting against this kinda social structure. Also, a multi millionaire 'sir' cannot possibly identify with the plights of the working class, the poor, the struggling, the people living paycheck to paycheck.



Rebecca Long-Bailey was the much better option imo.

If you're an idealist, sure. But those people won't get elected; we're not there yet. Under the tories we won't ever be there. So Labour supporters have to accept "status quo leadership" in a Tory-alternative that has a chance of being elected, in order to implement the basic changes that are needed to change that social structure.

You can't try to grab everything at once because the support isn't there until the groundwork has been put in. Labour needs an electable leader before they can get to work on their more ambitious policies.

I'm not a Labourite by the way, I fundamentally disagreed with many of Corbyn's more out-there policy dreams, and the policies of many of the Labour candidates.

I have no interest in a full shift to socialism but the UK (the whole world) is going to need a socialist "shunt" over the next few years... The Tories are making some encouraging noises but I don't trust them to follow through. The UK may well need "sensible Labour" quite soon.

[Swan]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

He might not identify but he can and does sympathise and have the intelligence to understand how he could as leader work to improve life chances in the UK by lifting people out of poverty.
Personally I would've preferred RLB too, but she was painted as far too corbynesque :/

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

If you're an idealist, sure. But those people won't get elected; we're not there yet. Under the tories we won't ever be there. So Labour supporters have to accept "status quo leadership" in a Tory-alternative that has a chance of being elected, in order to implement the basic changes that are needed to change that social structure.

You can't try to grab everything at once because the support isn't there until the groundwork has been put in. Labour needs an electable leader before they can get to work on their more ambitious policies.

I'm not a Labourite by the way, I fundamentally disagreed with many of Corbyn's more out-there policy dreams, and the policies of many of the Labour candidates.

I have no interest in a full shift to socialism but the UK (the whole world) is going to need a socialist "shunt" over the next few years... The Tories are making some encouraging noises but I don't trust them to follow through. The UK may well need "sensible Labour" quite soon.

Some good points made there. I think Labour's biggest problem right now (or then) is the party seems weak, a lot of people found it hard to take Corbyn seriously. And this isn't helped by useless celebs like Lily Allen endorsing them. Wes Streeting made a great point when interviewed after the embarrassing Labour loss in December - 'labour has and is becoming too far left, we need to be more balanced and realistic. We need to remember what Labour stands for'. I think in order to appeal to the undecideds, a left centre approach will be more beneficial.

I agree that the current leader can sympathise, but RLB has lived this to a certain extent, she can relate. Imo, Sir Keir Starmer is the wrong man for the job. Labour needed to make a statement, they didn't as far as im concerned.

Labour need to distance themselves from the hard left now, and go back to a more centre/left approach.

[Kizzy]

I'm not a fan of West Streeting... with people like him in Labour they don't need enemies. I'm all for the left and don't really trust centrists post Blair for obvious reasons.

[Swan]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I'm not a fan of West Streeting... with people like him in Labour they don't need enemies. I'm all for the left and don't really trust centrists post Blair for obvious reasons.

I think it's time to start trusting centrists. I probably do lean more right on certain things, but at heart im left. If RLB had been elected leader, i would have been fulling behind Labour.

Wes Streeting is a realist, and to help balance the party, Labour need people like him.

[Kizzy]

No way, he's done nothing but help undermine confidence in the party for years. During the campaigns for election he, reeves, milliband and others now in their shadow cabinet positions were nowhere to be seen.

[Swan]

Well yes Kizzy, but what's going on now isn't working, and he's vocal about it. He doesn't bury his head in the sand.

[Kizzy]

What is going on now?...

[Kazanne]

Does anyone know the story behind this and is there any truth in it ?

https://voiceofeurope.com/2020/04/cl...evade-justice/

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Does anyone know the story behind this and is there any truth in it ?

https://voiceofeurope.com/2020/04/cl...evade-justice/

Have you tried researching it kaz?

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Have you tried researching it kaz?

Well there are a few links on it ,so its hard to know what's true and what's not, I thought a Labour supporter would know something about it, that's why I asked.

[Samm]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Does anyone know the story behind this and is there any truth in it ?

https://voiceofeurope.com/2020/04/cl...evade-justice/

Nope, just tory rubbish as usual, trying to start a smear campaign, anyways....

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Well there are a few links on it ,so its hard to know what's true and what's not, I thought a Labour supporter would know something about it, that's why I asked.

Are those links reliable, is it plausible that someone who had in any way defended savile make it as labour leader? Sometimes you have to use your best judgement.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Are those links reliable, is it plausible that someone who had in any way defended savile make it as labour leader? Sometimes you have to use your best judgement.

Ive no idea, there are several different links .

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Samm

Nope, just tory rubbish as usual, trying to start a smear campaign, anyways....

So you are saying these links are all false ? maybe they should be sued then .

[The Slim Reaper]

Have to laugh at folks who not only didn't, but refused to show any intellectual curiosity when it came to the murder of the poor in this country, the destruction of the NHS, of the blatant and easily provable lies of the leave campaign, and Johnson's history of racism and homophobia, suddenly finding their inner investigative journalists.

[Kizzy]

Yes it's known that savile had intricate links to a party...but it wasn't labour.

[Kizzy]

Following the cover up by high profile police ( to protect whow knows) Keir called for a change in the law, hardly the actions of someone who aids abusers.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.the...-professionals

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

If you're an idealist, sure. But those people won't get elected; we're not there yet. Under the tories we won't ever be there. So Labour supporters have to accept "status quo leadership" in a Tory-alternative that has a chance of being elected, in order to implement the basic changes that are needed to change that social structure.

It's only a "status quo" if you only look at surface level traits. Politically, Sir Kier and Corbyn have little in common, and the Shadow Shuffle shows it's nothing like a status quo.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

It's only a "status quo" if you only look at surface level traits. Politically, Sir Kier and Corbyn have little in common, and the Shadow Shuffle shows it's nothing like a status quo.

Corbyn was the opposite of status quo UK political leadership candidate, so being unlike Corbyn is sort of the point.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Corbyn was the opposite of status quo UK political leadership candidate, so being unlike Corbyn is sort of the point.

Oh I misunderstood what you meant, I thought you were saying "another straight wihite man!!!" was the status quo.

[Livia]

Sir Keir was very contrite about his party's former anti-Semitism. Very apologetic and determined to stamp it out with a full and frank apology to the Jewish community. Which is quite a different stance from him. He's pretty much kept his mouth shut about it while the Old Soviet Nostalgists were running his party.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

Under the new spirit of moving forward, it might be a good idea for the Jewish community to try and end apartheid in Israel, and for the tories to try and deal with their Islamophobia.

You should stop demanding Jews do something about Israel until Muslims are also expected to end injustice in Islamic countries from which they did not originate.

Labour's confusion between Jewish and Israeli is still a bit of a problem, I see.

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Livia

You should stop demanding Jews do something about Israel until Muslims are also expected to end injustice in Islamic countries from which they did not originate.

Labour's confusion between Jewish and Israeli is still a bit of a problem, I see.

I didn't demand anything, it was a suggestion under the new way forward. Really interesting that you can still throw out the slurs, then as soon as I point a couple of things out, your first impulse is to attack Muslims again. Then end it on "they don't belong there", which is false and bizarre.