[arista]

1897 The British Forces
brought it back from a Bloodbath in Nigeria


Bought in the 1957 for around £750
by the Museum Section of the Aberdeen University


A Great Report on the End of Ch4HDnews.


English Museum's will not return any, yet.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...nze-to-nigeria

[Oliver_W]

Remember that countries are just random lines drawn on a map, so they belong in a museum here as much as anywhere else.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Remember that countries are just random lines drawn on a map, so they belong in a museum here as much as anywhere else.

No they do not

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Remember that countries are just random lines drawn on a map, so they belong in a museum here as much as anywhere else.

I like my neighbours car, can I take it because boundaries are imaginary?

[Alf]

People spilt blood and gave their lives for that bit of brass.

I bet it was a White lefty who attended a university that gave it away. And they did it to say, "look at me, I'm not racist, please like me"

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Alf

People spilt blood and gave their lives for that bit of brass.

I bet it was a White lefty who attended a university that gave it away. And they did it to say, "look at me, I'm not racist, please like me"

*gave it back

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Alf

People spilt blood and gave their lives for that bit of brass.

Originally Posted by arista

Bought in 1957 for around £750

[Oliver_W]

In 2019, Mark Walker – the grandson of a British soldier who was part of the punitive expedition – loaned two wooden ceremonial paddles to the Pitt Rivers Museum in Oxford, which will ultimately return them to the royal court of Benin.

That's quite sad really - he lent them the paddles to the museum in good faith, and they basically nicked them from him ... hope he was compensated.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

That's quite sad really - he lent them the paddles to the museum in good faith, and they basically nicked them from him ... hope he was compensated.

Oliver if my grandad stole your car and left it to me in his will, and then I loaned it to my mate and he figured out it was stolen and gave it back to you, should I be compensated?

[Toy Soldier]

If British museums/universities want to continue to display these pieces they should give ownership back to their rightful owners, and then ask to either buy or borrow them for display.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Oliver if my grandad stole your car and left it to me in his will, and then I loaned it to my mate and he figured out it was stolen and gave it back to you, should I be compensated?

I have no more right to my grandad's car than you do, unless he gives or "sells" it to me

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Liam-

I like my neighbours car, can I take it because boundaries are imaginary?

Honestly I think if someone is stupid enough to not properly secure their car, then yeah take it and give it a re-spray and new plates

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

I have no more right to my grandad's car than you do, unless he gives or "sells" it to me

No no it's YOUR car. My grandad stole it from you, and gave it to me. He never owned it so is it now mine? Or is it still yours?

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

No no it's YOUR car. My grandad stole it from you, and gave it to me. He never owned it so is it now mine? Or is it still yours?

oops I misread Well I maintain that if I were stupid enough to not secure my own car, it's my fault if it gets pinched.

As for the part of the article I quoted, the person it was taken from is probably long dead, so it may as well belong to the grandson of the person who won it

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

oops I misread Well I maintain that if I were stupid enough to not secure my own car, it's my fault if it gets pinched.



As for the part of the article I quoted, the person it was taken from is probably long dead, so it may as well belong to the grandson of the person who won it

Stole it*


your logic is ridiculous, I hope you don't genuinely back thieves, I presume you're joking

[Tom4784]

Good, all artefacts that we took through conquest should be handed back to their original countries. Let these countries decide when and how they want to share their history with the world.

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Remember that countries are just random lines drawn on a map, so they belong in a museum here as much as anywhere else.

As always, the point is lost on you.

[Tom4784]

Just.... Imagine having to bend over backwards and pretend you support theft just because you don't want to see an artefact that was stolen from Nigeria returned....

[LeatherTrumpet]

Bad move

[Cherie]

The UK will have nothing left, everything is acquired

[Ammi]

Prof George Boyne, principal and vice-chancellor of the university, said the decision was in line with Aberdeen’s “values as an international, inclusive university”, adding that keeping the bust would have been wrong because it was “acquired in such reprehensible circumstances”.


.....

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

If British museums/universities want to continue to display these pieces they should give ownership back to their rightful owners, and then ask to either buy or borrow them for display.

...yeah, like a rental, type thing...we obviously now have ensured great facilities to preserve and display in terms of security etc...so paying a sum each year to the nations that artefacts were taken from would seem like the thing...it’s one of the reasons as well why it’s so wrong and infuriating when aid to countries is reduced when so many countries riches were taken to enable to be in that position to be able to give and help...

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...yeah, like a rental, type thing...we obviously now have ensured great facilities to preserve and display in terms of security etc...so paying a sum each year to the nations that artefacts were taken from would seem like the thing...it’s one of the reasons as well why it’s so wrong and infuriating when aid to countries is reduced when so many countries riches were taken to enable to be in that position to be able to give and help...

It doesn't even necessarily have to be paid... museums borrow from each other for limited time displays all the time, usually with a little paragraph about the item's history (which would now include ownership being returned). The ownership rights, in this case, are more important than the physical location of the item itself. It would actually make for a MORE interesting display with some added historical significance.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

oops I misread Well I maintain that if I were stupid enough to not secure my own car, it's my fault if it gets pinched. As for the part of the article I quoted, the person it was taken from is probably long dead, so it may as well belong to the grandson of the person who won it

Secured property is an illusion for peace of mind, a determined and skilled thief can get your stuff if they want it. If you own something worth stealing, it's statistically unlikely to actually get stolen, but whether or not it does is largely pot luck.



You take individualism/libetrarianism too far to the point where it warps, and what you think sounds like logic... is not. I think you might be confusing the Locke's Theory of Property / the concept of "Spoils of War" with pillaging... which is a war crime.

Pillaging and looting are very different from spoils of war. Pillaging and looting involve the forceful invasion of another person’s private property for the purpose of stealing what is not theirs. Pillaging is a war crime on an international scale.

Spoils of war, however, is enemy property that soldiers capture or seize legally. In other words, once a country conquers an enemy, the enemy’s property then becomes property of that country. For instance, if a soldier defeats an enemy, the legal spoils of war would be the enemy’s weapons, which are then available to that soldier for the taking. A soldier can then bring back, for example, one of the enemy’s cannons as a prize of war.

World War 2 is a good example because a lot of British family have legal WW2 Spoils of War - German firearms, ceremonial swords, pieces of uniforms, other military equipment - ALL legit. Even items the soldier had on them at the time (like say a ring or a pocketwatch) are in the grey area.

Items forcibly taken from private residences or other properties such as museums are NOT spoils of war. It is pillaging. They are stolen. It's against international law.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It doesn't even necessarily have to be paid... museums borrow from each other for limited time displays all the time, usually with a little paragraph about the item's history (which would now include ownership being returned). The ownership rights, in this case, are more important than the physical location of the item itself. It would actually make for a MORE interesting display with some added historical significance.

.....they do borrow, yes...but at a huge cost, which is obviously passed on the to those who view them...but yeah, I see what you mean...nothing would change in terms of how those things are displayed and viewed etc ...except that it would be explained why they’re only ‘on loan’ and can’t be owned by either the museum or the country which they’re being shown in...I guess whether any payment with the country of origin and ownership takes place etc...would be an individual agreement that might apply in some cases but not all...because it would be ensuring that any benefits were to the people as a general and not already wealthy governments...

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

oops I misread Well I maintain that if I were stupid enough to not secure my own car, it's my fault if it gets pinched.

Interested in how one can secure a car so its totally free from risk of being stolen?

Not the point of the thread, but this stood out to me. My father in law has had a fair few cars nicked, or broken into. Hell, he even managed to get one nicked from a 'secure' parking facility, with a ****load of cameras in it. Another, was from his own garage..and he had cctv by that stage due to the amount of things being nicked, and the police didnt even bother bloody looking at it it seems. That one, he was actually using a wheel lock too, which they managed to get off. There is also a crapload of cctv cameras all around his area (lives in a very populated city) and funnily enough, it was claimed that every one of the cameras was fancing the other direction. In other words, police don't want anything to do with anything that wont let them hit their fine targets..to me tbh