[parmnion]

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2021...maya-forstater

[Oliver_W]

Quite right too!

Ridiculous sexist rubbish that a woman should lose her job for tweeting something as obvious and self-evident as the fact that someone can't change their sex.

[Niamh.]

It's good that women can't be silenced(on threat of losing their jobs) for speaking about women's rights now

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

It's good that women can't be silenced(on threat of losing their jobs) for speaking about women's rights now

Yes feels like we have now moved to where it used to be, it felt like we we regressing there for a while

[Elliot]

Must be tiring to base your entire personality on coming after trans women idk how she does it

[Jake.]

Baffles me that some people are unable to stand up for both women’s and trans women’s rights, idk why some feel the need to be so ghastly

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Jake.

Baffles me that some people are unable to stand up for both women’s and trans women’s rights, idk why some feel the need to be so ghastly

I mean you could flip that the other way too

[Jake.]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I mean you could flip that the other way too

Which other way? My post said both women’s and trans women’s

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Jake.

Which other way? My post said both women’s and trans women’s

As in, people who speak for trans rights only could also take into account women's rights and what the conflicts might be between the two

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

As in, people who speak for trans rights only could also take into account women's rights and what the conflicts might be between the two

Touche!

Woman have stood side by side with the LGBT community for decades, where is the solidarity now when women are being repressed

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Jake.

Baffles me that some people are unable to stand up for both women’s and trans women’s rights, idk why some feel the need to be so ghastly

This wasn't a civil rights issue, it was down to the opinion that transpeople are still biologically their natal sex post-transition. That is to say, that it's OK to for example hold the belief that "Transwomen are Women, but they are not biologically female".

Which is actually quite important in terms of research and the medical profession.

It really has nothing to do with respecting trans rights. It's biological accuracy, it's separate, and it's important.

Anyway... this decision is legally very significant and the correct one in my opinion. Transition does not alter biology no matter how you look at it, and the inability to say that was leading to some extremely concerning pseudoscience (frankly, nonsense) creeping into the study of biology.

[Swan]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

This wasn't a civil rights issue, it was down to the opinion that transpeople are still biologically their natal sex post-transition. That is to say, that it's OK to for example hold the belief that "Transwomen are Women, but they are not biologically female".

Which is actually quite important in terms of research and the medical profession.

It really has nothing to do with respecting trans rights. It's biological accuracy, it's separate, and it's important.

Anyway... this decision is legally very significant and the correct one in my opinion. Transition does not alter biology no matter how you look at it, and the inability to say that was leading to some extremely concerning pseudoscience (frankly, nonsense) creeping into the study of biology.

I agree with all this ^

Also bib - It's just fact, there will always be a difference between Trans women and biological women. I find it sad when biological women point this out, respectfully, and are branded 'transphobic'.

[Jake.]

But why point it out
What point are you actually trying to make by doing so? We all know it’s scientifically correct, it doesn’t need to be noted constantly. Trans women go through enough hardship reaching that point only to then be constantly reminded “you’re still not technically a woman, you know”

[LeatherTrumpet]

Great news and common sense of course

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Jake.

But why point it out
What point are you actually trying to make by doing so? We all know it’s scientifically correct, it doesn’t need to be noted constantly. Trans women go through enough hardship reaching that point only to then be constantly reminded “you’re still not technically a woman, you know”

This isn't about the right to walk up to transwomen and tell them they're not women. It's about being able to point it out when women's sex based rights are being affected by not pointing out the biological differences and why they matter in some instances like women's sports for example.

The tweets Maya was fired for (or her contract not renewed for) were tweets opposing government proposals to reform the Gender Recognition Act to allow people to self-identify as the opposite sex. That isn't harassing individual transpeople, it's disagreeing with proposed changes to legislation that could effect women negatively and are wide open to be abused by men that may not actually even be trans

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Jake.

But why point it out
What point are you actually trying to make by doing so? We all know it’s scientifically correct, it doesn’t need to be noted constantly. Trans women go through enough hardship reaching that point only to then be constantly reminded “you’re still not technically a woman, you know”

I'm going to be quite blunt here to be honest;

Because the adult world is about more (a lot more) than scrappy altercations between individuals, and between groups based on individual identity. We were (maybe still are?) in a situation where "people being uncomfortable with something" was starting to impact policy, legislation, careers, professional registrations and responsibilities... people with decades of qualifications and experience/research backgrounds afraid to do research because of purely emotion-driven backlash and accusations of being hateful. People with NO agenda other than accuracy being conflated with people who have a genuinely hateful agenda... and that being backed up by governments and legal systems also somehow running scared. It's ridiculous, it's untenable, and I really hope we're starting to see an end to it.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Jake.

Baffles me that some people are unable to stand up for both women’s and trans women’s rights

Because there's virtually no crossover?

Transwomen in women's sports, bathrooms, changing rooms, and especially prisons and refuges goes against women's right to single sex spaces; the so-called paygap is largely caused by differing workplace habits and behaviours, so male socialisation should mean it won't affect transwomen; females who aren't transmen have no need for self-ID, and that can be used to allow transwomen into female spaces, so that would bring us back to the first point...

The only thing in common might be prostitution - being abused and practically owned by the pimp, and being beaten up and abused by johns is something which can happen to transwomen and women ... And that's at least partially the fault of certain brands of feminism and "queer" activism that paints prostitution as empowering, so when they fall into poverty they believe they have no choice ...