[Vanessa]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I don't know why you keep hammering this point home... I've never once disputed that Amber Heard has probably been violent towards Johnny Depp. I don't think anyone has? That's not what the trial is about. Yes she clearly did also have substance abuse problems, it was clearly another big part of their toxic relationship. Alongside violence.

But here's what the court case is about;

1) Amber Heard wrote about experiencing violence from Johnny Depp during their relationship.

2) He claims he was never violent and so the above is defamation.

3) The ONLY question is if Depp has ever gotten physical with Heard. Circumstances don't matter, provokation doesn't matter, her character doesn't matter, the poopoo on his pillow doesn't matter... none of it matters. If he got physical then it isn't libel and that's the whole case.

It's not a criminal trial for assault or domestic abuse. It's a defamation trial. If what she wrote was even loosely true (i.e. if even once he lost his cool and slapped her around - which there is evidence of him admitting himself via text message unless you think he was giving a grovelling apology for something he didn't do - then what she said/wrote isn't libellous. Case over.

I think she's made up the whole thing. This is my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

[Vanessa]

https://twitter.com/Zjblome/status/1...AVE1YS9bQ&s=19
Depp assistant Stephen Deuters has said that those messages are fake. They've been heavily doctored.
And he's willing to testify under oath that he never spoke to Amber about Johnny behaviour.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Vanessa

I think she's made up the whole thing. This is my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

It's quite clear that you're sticking to it, as are many people, but my honest opinion is that it's more because it's what people want to believe rather than un unbiased view of events. As someone who genuinely isn't a huge fan of either actor it just seems fairly obvious that they were both a mess before they met, became even more messy while they were together, and things got completely toxic. Based on things his past girlfriends have said (they have NOT been glowing reports - only that he wasn't directly violent to them) Depp has an inclination towards being jealous/controlling in relationships and she had a tendency to wind him up (perhaps sometimes deliberately) and at some point it all completely imploded into substance abuse and violence. That's just the most realistic scenario here - based on all of the evidence from during AND before their relationship. It's a fact that he's smashed up rooms etc. (which is a form of domestic abuse by the way, whether he actually directly hit Kate Moss or not). It's a confirmed fact that he's committed assaults in the past just not against partners (on other men/fights/angry outbursts - these are on record). And yes there's evidence that she's had terrible previous relationships too. Mutual violence is the only realistic answer here. They should just have separated and left it alone and tried to do better in future. Instead we have this mess. Johnny is as much a part of it as Amber Heard... and this is where my opinion diverges; I think he's doing THIS on purpose. Not to clear his name (it would have been better to just let it die down), not for money (he doesn't need it), not for public perception (his fans already unwaveringly support him). Just to get back at her. A continuation of that toxic relationship. His current behaviour in court is odd and frankly worrisome.

FWIW I agree with what was said on the previous page that what I've seen of Amber Heard as an actor isn't exactly amazing, it's bland and forgettable. Depp is truly unique in the Jack Sparrow role and much of his earlier work is quite brilliant as well. If you were to take all else out of the equation, I'm a MUCH bigger fan of Depp's work than I am Heard's... but that's not really relevant to their private lives at all.

I mean... I was also a huge fan of Joss Whedon's work but I still had to accept, with various people's (especially women's) accounts of him as a person, that he's a big ol' creep and basically a bully. It's a crappy thing to have to accept. It does taint his work that I used to enjoy. But it is what it is.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Too late, you said also

But Niamh ,
Nobody condone's Johnny's anger outbursts, also just because he's smashing rooms and furniture it doesn't automatically mean he put his hands on her. Some people with anger problems just argue and trash stuff, yes it's wrong to do that but it doesn't mean they're all 'woman beaters '.

I think Depp would rather self harm than physically hurt someone he's with. It was a cry for help ..he drew in his blood on walls etc. Why would he tell that story when he knows how weird it could make him look??. Because he's clearly just telling everything that happened ,to let it off his chest

[Vanessa]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It's quite clear that you're sticking to it, as are many people, but my honest opinion is that it's more because it's what people want to believe rather than un unbiased view of events. As someone who genuinely isn't a huge fan of either actor it just seems fairly obvious that they were both a mess before they met, became even more messy while they were together, and things got completely toxic. Based on things his past girlfriends have said (they have NOT been glowing reports - only that he wasn't directly violent to them) Depp has an inclination towards being jealous/controlling in relationships and she had a tendency to wind him up (perhaps sometimes deliberately) and at some point it all completely imploded into substance abuse and violence. That's just the most realistic scenario here - based on all of the evidence from during AND before their relationship. It's a fact that he's smashed up rooms etc. (which is a form of domestic abuse by the way, whether he actually directly hit Kate Moss or not). It's a confirmed fact that he's committed assaults in the past just not against partners (on other men/fights/angry outbursts - these are on record). And yes there's evidence that she's had terrible previous relationships too. Mutual violence is the only realistic answer here. They should just have separated and left it alone and tried to do better in future. Instead we have this mess. Johnny is as much a part of it as Amber Heard... and this is where my opinion diverges; I think he's doing THIS on purpose. Not to clear his name (it would have been better to just let it die down), not for money (he doesn't need it), not for public perception (his fans already unwaveringly support him). Just to get back at her. A continuation of that toxic relationship. His current behaviour in court is odd and frankly worrisome.

FWIW I agree with what was said on the previous page that what I've seen of Amber Heard as an actor isn't exactly amazing, it's bland and forgettable. Depp is truly unique in the Jack Sparrow role and much of his earlier work is quite brilliant as well. If you were to take all else out of the equation, I'm a MUCH bigger fan of Depp's work than I am Heard's... but that's not really relevant to their private lives at all.

I mean... I was also a huge fan of Joss Whedon's work but I still had to accept, with various people's (especially women's) accounts of him as a person, that he's a big ol' creep and basically a bully. It's a crappy thing to have to accept. It does taint his work that I used to enjoy. But it is what it is.

Those messages have no date on them. I have to wonder why.
If they are fake like I think they are, I cant just ignore that.
And Amber is already being investigated for perjury in Australia.
It all looks suspicious to me.
I'm not saying Johnny is an angel, I just don't think he hit her. I think she was the abusive one has painted herself as the victim, who has done nothing wrong.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Why would he tell that story when he knows how weird it could make him look??

Literally his entire career is built around "being weird" ... like Winona Ryder, Helena Bonham Carter et al... the whole gothy/Tim Burton thing. No one is shocked or surprised that Johnny Depp is self-injurious/would draw on a wall in blood/drinks heavily/does drugs. It would be more surprising if he didn't and no Johnny Depp fan is going to suddenly think "wow what a weirdo" because he's self harmed. In fact ... ... I'd straight up say that many of his fans will relate to him all the more because of it.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Vanessa

Those messages have no date on them. I have to wonder why.
If they are fake like I think they are, I cant just ignore that.
And Amber is already being investigated for perjury in Australia.
It all looks suspicious to me.
I'm not saying Johnny is an angel, I just don't think he hit her. I think she was the abusive one has painted herself as the victim, who has done nothing wrong.

He's never disputed that the text messages are genuine. The only reason he wouldn't is because his lawyers will have told them that, if pressed, the telecoms companies will confirm the messages and that they came from his phone, and if he outright denies them he's committing perjury. So he hasn't commented at all. If they're fake there's no reason for him not to say "I didn't send those messages" but he never has.

[Vanessa]

If Amber had taken some responsibility I'd me more sympathetic to her.
But she's painting herself like an absolute angel who has never done anything wrong in her life.
Never done drugs or drinks, despite evidence that she did. She just keeps lying all the time.
I can't support a liar.

[bitontheslide]

when you get into the world of celeb, the weirder the person the more popular they are. There are so many examples

[Vanessa]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

He's never disputed that the text messages are genuine. The only reason he wouldn't is because his lawyers will have told them that, if pressed, the telecoms companies will confirm the messages and that they came from his phone, and if he outright denies them he's committing perjury. So he hasn't commented at all. If they're fake there's no reason for him not to say "I didn't send those messages" but he never has.

They have no date on them. Hardly convincing proof.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

when you get into the world of celeb, the weirder the person the more popular they are. There are so many examples

Very true. Like TS said Johnny Depps whole career is based on how weird he is, that's what people actually love about him, lets be real here

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Literally his entire career is built around "being weird" ... like Winona Ryder, Helena Bonham Carter et al... the whole gothy/Tim Burton thing. No one is shocked or surprised that Johnny Depp is self-injurious/would draw on a wall in blood/drinks heavily/does drugs. It would be more surprising if he didn't and no Johnny Depp fan is going to suddenly think "wow what a weirdo" because he's self harmed. In fact ... ... I'd straight up say that many of his fans will relate to him all the more because of it.

TS it's not about his fans , I'm talking about what the jury and everyone in the courtroom would think. Non of them would have thought him drawing in blood was "normal" yet he still took that risk and told them .

Because I don't think he has much to hide tbh. The grinning & laughing is out of sheer awkwardness, it's like a coping mechanism like I said . He's also an introvert and his shoulders crouch a bit like a turtle.

Polar opposite of Heard who tried to hide her laugher and smirk . When Depp said he got dropped by Disney ,she clearly enjoyed his misery. She had a suitcase next to her with the handle still up which makes it look like her and her legal team are thinking " let's wrap this up quickly" . She darts her eyes about looking all shifty.

Then her mood changes , which looks like she's been coached to look "sad" , which makes it look fake and people can see through it.

A behaviour expert has analysed Depp, and when he's describing his relationship with Heard .. it's like he's reliving it . Which makes it unlikely he's lying.

[parmnion]

What the jury thinks doesn't matter, what they know, does.

[Vanessa]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

TS it's not about his fans , I'm talking about what the jury and everyone in the courtroom would think. Non of them would have thought him drawing in blood was "normal" yet he still took that risk and told them .

Because I don't think he has much to hide tbh. The grinning & laughing is out of sheer awkwardness, it's like a coping mechanism like I said . He's also an introvert and his shoulders crouch a bit like a turtle.

Polar opposite of Heard who tried to hide her laugher and smirk . When Depp said he got dropped by Disney ,she clearly enjoyed his misery. She had a suitcase next to her with the handle still up which makes it look like her and her legal team are thinking " let's wrap this up quickly" . She darts her eyes about looking all shifty.

Then her mood changes , which looks like she's been coached to look "sad" , which makes it look fake and people can see through it.

A behaviour expert has analysed Depp, and when he's describing his relationship with Heard .. it's like he's reliving it . Which makes it unlikely he's lying.

Amber and her lawyers have tried to shut down this case five times. You have to wonder why , if she isn't lying.
If I was telling the truth no way I would want to close the case. I'd want it to continue.

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by Vanessa

Amber and her lawyers have tried to shut down this case five times. You have to wonder why , if she isn't lying.
If I was telling the truth no way I would want to close the case. I'd want it to continue.

the aim for her is to shut the case down, because Depp is suing her. Thats perfectly normal

[Vanessa]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

the aim for her is to shut the case down, because Depp is suing her. Thats perfectly normal

And yet the judge has refused five times. The judge must think there's enough evidence to carry on the case.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Vanessa

Amber and her lawyers have tried to shut down this case five times. You have to wonder why , if she isn't lying.
If I was telling the truth no way I would want to close the case. I'd want it to continue.

Exactly... .
And Heard covered her face when she smirked ,she knew how bad it would look. And she tried to stop herself laughing in court.

Depp's emotions are all out there , he's not hiding anything. He's just being himself.

[Niamh.]

Why wouldn't you try to get a case against you where someone is suing you shut down?

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Why wouldn't you try to get a case against you where someone is suing you shut down?

Depends how it's done, as it can make you look like you have something to hide which I believe she has.

[Vanessa]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Depends how it's done, as it can make you look like you have something to hide which I believe she has.

Exactly.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Depends how it's done, as it can make you look like you have something to hide which I believe she has.

I'm pretty sure a lawyers job is to try and shut down a case against their client by whatever means possible

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I'm pretty sure a lawyers job is to try and shut down a case against their client by whatever means possible

A lawyer's job is also about having a 1 to 1 with their client and finding out the truth, even if the lawyer goes along with the deceit for them they still need their client to level with them.

If the person has nothing to hide , I'm not sure every lawyer would ' shut it down'. If they believe the case works in their favour then surely they'd fight it ? .

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

A lawyer's job is also about having a 1 to 1 with their client and finding out the truth, even if the lawyer goes along with the deceit for them they still need their client to level with them.

If the person has nothing to hide , I'm not sure every lawyer would ' shut it down'. If they believe the case works in their favour then surely they'd fight it ? .

I don't think that's true either tbf

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I don't think that's true either tbf

lawyers dont need to know if their client is innocent or guilty. Their job is to represent them to the best of their ability and that has nothing to do with innocence or guilt

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I don't think that's true either tbf

So hang on a second ... If you're representing someone in a court case , would you not atleast want to know if they DID it ??? surely you need a private confidential talk with them beforehand ?. How else would you know how to play this as they're lawyer .

I know Lawyer's & solicitors lie and do whatever to get their client off ,no matter what ..but surely there still has to be a moment where they both lay their cards on the table.

I know the client may still BS their own lawyer about events but still , the lawyer needs all the information to build a plan . They can't just wing it unless they're a amateur or incompetent .