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View Poll Results: Do black (etc.) people have the right to have passively-antagonistic views on this?
Not-really - she did rub-hands with Mandela and in any case is a legend to be revered 2 25.00%
Not-really - she did rub-hands with Mandela and in any case is a legend to be revered
2 25.00%
She did enable lots-of colonial disruption - I understand the mixed feelings 2 25.00%
She did enable lots-of colonial disruption - I understand the mixed feelings
2 25.00%
^ but in appropriate moderation (someone’s death is nothing to celebrate) 2 25.00%
^ but in appropriate moderation (someone’s death is nothing to celebrate)
2 25.00%
Not sure/other 2 25.00%
Not sure/other
2 25.00%
Voters: 8. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-09-2022, 06:21 PM #1
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Default ‘People of-colour have a right to feel a certain way about the queen’s passing’

I know The Slim Reaper’s on the low-key look-out for a Mother-Theresa/M.T.-special thread from my ends (d.w., it’s coming) but in the meantime I thought it would be a good idea to see what people on here think about the idea expressed in the title (i.e., the queen’s apparent hand in colonialism being a good reason for black people, etc., to not want-to actually mourn her death or generally feel particularly-upset about it). Normally I’d say that in-depth discussions about race-specific topics are best-reserved for the respective individual communities who are actually directly-affected by whatever the racial-issue is but when a worldwide figure’s being labelled a covert-racist/corresponding-enabler across social-media (not even just-Twitter) discussion of that notion does need-to be entertained by everyone who has an active opinion on the Queen/monarchical totality, IMO.
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Old 10-09-2022, 06:29 PM #2
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People of any colour or nationality have a right to deal with the Queens passing in a certain way…
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Old 10-09-2022, 06:33 PM #3
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Personally I understand both perspectives (and at the end-of-the-day there are people more-opposed to official respect for the queen’s passing just-because weekend-footie’s been cancelled) but I just feel like she was too-much of a formidable and loyal character overall for her memory to be post-humously tainted by the fact that the monarchy she was under was (directly or indirectly) responsible for certain colonial mishaps. Plus there are some people out there who’ll say anything on social-media for clout/a reaction under the projected guise of sentimental morality so it’s just one of those things. One-way-or-the-other, people of any race who think her death is something to actively-celebrate are disgusting.
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Old 10-09-2022, 06:37 PM #4
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and then compare to the race-baiting spineless Trevor Sinclair tweet he had to
grovelingly apologise for when he shat himself that he would get sacked from
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Old 10-09-2022, 06:37 PM #5
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Everyone has the right to feel what they feel about everything

But there's feeling a certain way, and then there's being vile - an American "professor" got dragged on twitter for wishing an excruciating death on the Queen (before the announcement)

However much blame you throw at her for historic wrongs she had nothing to do with, that's disgusting behaviour.
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Old 10-09-2022, 06:42 PM #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver_W View Post
Everyone has the right to feel what they feel about everything

But there's feeling a certain way, and then there's being vile - an American "professor" got dragged on twitter for wishing an excruciating death on the Queen (before the announcement)

However much blame you throw at her for historic wrongs she had nothing to do with, that's disgusting behaviour.
For once I 100%-agree with you. I’ve seen people on Insta. posting non-stop venom about the Queen and that’s just beyond the bounds of acceptability/propriety. Why wait until the queen dies to paint her out like Adolf-Hitler if you’ve always seen her as an evil colonial enabler?
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Old 10-09-2022, 06:46 PM #7
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I was looking for an unequivocal yes in the options, but couldn't find one. But yes, anyone has the right to have antagonistic feelings about what this country has done and how it still treats people to this day.
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Old 10-09-2022, 06:48 PM #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver_W View Post
Everyone has the right to feel what they feel about everything

But there's feeling a certain way, and then there's being vile - an American "professor" got dragged on twitter for wishing an excruciating death on the Queen (before the announcement)

However much blame you throw at her for historic wrongs she had nothing to do with, that's disgusting behaviour.
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I was looking for an unequivocal yes in the options, but couldn't find one. But yes, anyone has the right to have antagonistic feelings about what this country has done and how it still treats people to this day.
I hear that but this is re. the queen per-se, not England/Britain per-se. A lot of the vitriol kicking-off right now is pretty personal.
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Old 10-09-2022, 06:48 PM #9
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Imo Elizabeth can't be blamed for stuff that Politicians did.

Even I've got to say that's incredibly harsh on anyone that puts that on her.
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Old 10-09-2022, 06:48 PM #10
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@ The Slim Reaper. I don’t know why Oliver’s post was included in that quote.
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Old 10-09-2022, 06:51 PM #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redway View Post
Personally I understand both perspectives (and at the end-of-the-day there are people more-opposed to official respect for the queen’s passing just-because weekend-footie’s been cancelled) but I just feel like she was too-much of a formidable and loyal character overall for her memory to be post-humously tainted by the fact that the monarchy she was under was (directly or indirectly) responsible for certain colonial mishaps. Plus there are some people out there who’ll say anything on social-media for clout/a reaction under the projected guise of sentimental morality so it’s just one of those things. One-way-or-the-other, people of any race who think her death is something to actively-celebrate are disgusting.
Tbf it's not just the Football that's been cancelled.

I agree with your post in particular near the end.
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Old 10-09-2022, 06:53 PM #12
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Quote:
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I hear that but this is re. the queen per-se, not England/Britain per-se. A lot of the vitriol kicking-off right now is pretty personal.
It's impossible to separate the Queen from the country. Have you got some examples of the vitriol aimed at her?
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Old 10-09-2022, 07:08 PM #13
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Quote:
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Imo Elizabeth can't be blamed for stuff that Politicians did.

Even I've got to say that's incredibly harsh on anyone that puts that on her.
Plus as I've already said ..if she started refusing point blank on political decisions, then it would lead to her abdicating & Constitutional crisis.

She had to remain impartial, she probably gave advice ,and she would have disagreed on stuff . But there's no way she could have been allowed to be too opinionated.
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Old 10-09-2022, 08:19 PM #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper View Post
It's impossible to separate the Queen from the country. Have you got some examples of the vitriol aimed at her?


Sounds pretty vitriolic to me!

( not that this should need pointing out, but I hope the woman's job isn't at risk, however foul she is. As a tenured "professor" she should be fine )
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Old 10-09-2022, 08:28 PM #15
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ooft
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Old 10-09-2022, 10:40 PM #16
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Quote:
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Sounds pretty vitriolic to me!

( not that this should need pointing out, but I hope the woman's job isn't at risk, however foul she is. As a tenured "professor" she should be fine )
Oh, Obianuju.

Yeah, that’s absolutely-vile.
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Old 10-09-2022, 11:53 PM #17
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Quote:
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Plus as I've already said ..if she started refusing point blank on political decisions, then it would lead to her abdicating & Constitutional crisis.

She had to remain impartial, she probably gave advice ,and she would have disagreed on stuff . But there's no way she could have been allowed to be too opinionated.
Exactly.
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Old 10-09-2022, 11:54 PM #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver_W View Post


Sounds pretty vitriolic to me!

( not that this should need pointing out, but I hope the woman's job isn't at risk, however foul she is. As a tenured "professor" she should be fine )
Oh I agree that she is entitled to be a prick.
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Old 11-09-2022, 01:19 AM #19
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The Queen's Christmas Speech 2004
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkTJ...nuelChrissandi
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Old 11-09-2022, 03:11 AM #20
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“May her pain be excruciating.”

I agree that she shouldn’t lose her job (I like her stuff overall) but that comment was absolutely-disgusting. I don’t want to say that black people can be their-own worst-enemies because that would just be disproportionately-hypocritical (and on the contrary there’s no shortage of white males who fulfil that quota, probably more-than anyone else on-the-whole) but there’s having an opinion about the monarchy and how colonialism had adverse effects on the actualisation of Biafra and whatnot (you’ll have to study the history of Igbo people if Biafra comes-across as a totally-foreign word to you) and there’s just being vile and overly-personal. I’m disgusted in Uju, tbh.
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Old 11-09-2022, 03:20 AM #21
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“May her pain be excruciating.”

I agree that she shouldn’t lose her job (I like her stuff overall) but that comment was absolutely-disgusting. I don’t want to say that black people can be their-own worst-enemies because that would just be disproportionately-hypocritical (and on the contrary there’s no shortage of white males who fulfil that quota, probably more-than anyone else on-the-whole) but there’s having an opinion about the monarchy and how colonialism had adverse effects on the actualisation of Biafra and whatnot (you’ll have to study the history of Igbo people if Biafra comes-across as a totally-foreign word to you) and there’s just being vile and overly-personal. I’m disgusted in Uju, tbh.
Personally I just see it that she brought shame onto herself rather than onto the black community.

I hope that most people on here will agree with me on that at least.
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Old 11-09-2022, 03:22 AM #22
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It also has to be said that being forced to be a passive enabler of the toxic pieties of the time (and 1967 was a very-different time indeed) does not maketh a bad person. One colonial after-effect that Nigerians overall learnt (it has-to be said) was wife-beating. I don’t think between Igbo, Edo, Yoruba, Fulani (for all-their sins), Ibibios and Igalas (etc.) that was ever-done in the ancestral/pre.-colonial realm but with some of Uju’s male relatives it most-likely would’ve occurred and that’s active hostility, of the type that the queen certainly-didn’t actively distil in anyone’s cultural practices. It probably doesn’t stop Uju looking-up to many-of her male relatives/grandfathers. Yoruba people betrayed Igbos in the most cowardly way in the late ’60s (the Brit’s weren’t the only-ones who played-dirty during the time of the civil war). It most-likely doesn’t stop Uju from having Yoruba friends, nor-should it (it’s history and no one person in this generation was solely-responsible for Yoruba treacherousness). Why so-much hostility to a coincidentally-monarchical figure who didn’t actively set-out to destroy any nation?
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Old 11-09-2022, 07:52 AM #23
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What that woman said could be considered hate speech, so she may be in a bit of bother
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Old 11-09-2022, 07:56 AM #24
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It's disgusting,to wish that on a lady who has served her country,so tirelessly, says more about her than the Queen.
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Old 11-09-2022, 12:33 PM #25
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Sounds pretty vitriolic to me!

( not that this should need pointing out, but I hope the woman's job isn't at risk, however foul she is. As a tenured "professor" she should be fine )
I'm not defending it because the last line is not something to make public if that's what she feels. She is, however, clearly talking about the institution, which is valid. We're not really taught the true history of this country and it's empire. What we did to India and Africa in particular will never be fully understood by most; even though most think they do understand it. To this day, everyone still makes jokes about the Irish and potatoes (not calling anyone out, I do it myself), which shows how cleansed and unserious our history has become. We lost around 1-1.3 million troops in both world wars, but killed over a million Irish people in 6 years because why not?

That doesn't mean that we should all be saying hail Marys every night for our sins to be forgiven; because they were the sins of our fathers, not us, but what happened then was barbarism and cruelty, and the crown still represents that in many parts of the world. As a nation, we still hold a grudge against Germany, and now imagine what they did in Europe for 5-10 years they did to only us, and not for a decade, but for a couple of hundred years. Imagine the resentment and anger that would exist within our national psyche. That's how people have a right to feel about us.
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