[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

you obviously take religion seriously, i don't

Like I said atleast people know where they stand with mosque's & Synagogues , they don't go back & forth on same sex marriage .And I have never seen a gay or trans imam, or a gay or trans rabbi . Not much contradiction or confusion with these strict religious establishments .

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Like I said atleast people know where they stand with mosque's & Synagogues , they don't go back & forth on same sex marriage .And I have never seen a gay or trans imam, or a gay or trans rabbi . Not much contradiction or confusion with these strict religious establishments .

Yep I think you need to stick to the rules for everyone involved or change, they cant have it both ways ...no pun intended

[Swan]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Yep I think you need to stick to the rules for everyone involved or change, they cant have it both ways ...no pun intended

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Swan

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Like I said atleast people know where they stand with mosque's & Synagogues , they don't go back & forth on same sex marriage .And I have never seen a gay or trans imam, or a gay or trans rabbi . Not much contradiction or confusion with these strict religious establishments .

You might have.

[Nicky91]

no gay marriages, or else what?


those stupid elderly in church of england getting triggered

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

no gay marriages, or else what?


those stupid elderly in church of england getting triggered

God will reincarnate you as a female American marine ribbon worm when you die.

[arista]

Originally Posted by parmnion

God will reincarnate you as a female American marine ribbon worm when you die.

How nice for Nicky

[arista]

Yes LT

Justin Welby
Archbishop will not give new prayer blessing for gay couples

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64342940

[Soldier Boy]

Originally Posted by Liam-

A religious body using their beliefs as a way to justify their bigotry? I am shocked, almost as shocked as it taking less than a page for this thread to turn into yet another non-binary/trans debate/trashing session, almost like this isn’t actually cared about at all

I'm just going to controversially come right out with this one...

Gay men are losing the allyship of women (which they've mostly had since the dawn of civil rights), because when it came to the crunch they showed absolutely no indication of being willing to return the favour or even to listen uncritically with compassion.

Lots of generalisation there but it is what it is. Gay men currently asking "why aren't cis women standing up for us" is an absolutely ludicrous question to ask.

[Swan]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

I'm just going to controversially come right out with this one...

Gay men are losing the allyship of women (which they've mostly had since the dawn of civil rights), because when it came to the crunch they showed absolutely no indication of being willing to return the favour or even to listen uncritically with compassion.

Lots of generalisation there but it is what it is. Gay men currently asking "why aren't cis women standing up for us" is an absolutely ludicrous question to ask.

I thought a lot of lesbian movements were starting to turn against gay men? But what do i know?!

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

I'm just going to controversially come right out with this one...

Gay men are losing the allyship of women (which they've mostly had since the dawn of civil rights), because when it came to the crunch they showed absolutely no indication of being willing to return the favour or even to listen uncritically with compassion.

Lots of generalisation there but it is what it is. Gay men currently asking "why aren't cis women standing up for us" is an absolutely ludicrous question to ask.

Owen Jones' recent anti-woman rant pretty much encapsulates the things gay men have to continue to say in order to completely lose (actual) feminists' support ...

[Liam-]

A lot of generalisations there, a long way of saying some women are happy for bigotry to occur because a minority of gay men have problems with women, not exactly a shining endorsement of women is it

[Swan]

Originally Posted by Liam-

A lot of generalisations there, a long way of saying some women are happy for bigotry to occur because a minority of gay men have problems with women, not exactly a shining endorsement of women is it

Women aren't exactly the enemy of gay men. All over the world, the religion heads, all of the laws against gay marriage, and homosexuality as a whole are created, enforced and dictated by men.

[Soldier Boy]

Originally Posted by Liam-

A lot of generalisations there, a long way of saying some women are happy for bigotry to occur because a minority of gay men have problems with women, not exactly a shining endorsement of women is it

It is a generalisation but this is a realm of generalisations; it's likewise unfair for gay men to have a problem with all women who have concerns about women's rights relating to trans issues because of a minority of those women who are genuinely hateful - who I don't think anyone can reasonably pretend don't exist.

But it's 2023 and here we are. Allyship isn't about individual relationships and whether or not people on an individual level like each other... it's about going to bat for that team, and if it isn't there (in general), it isn't going to be reciprocated (in general).

It's not out of anything more exciting than apathy.

I'm not even saying that gay men had to go to war for women when they had concern, but the right answer to "We have some concerns about this..." wasn't "Tough **** TERF!" and that's what (in general) came back. Or silence. So the result is silence.

I don't think it's a good thing I think it's utterly tragic, and the winners in the end are going to be the big ol' puffy faced blokes, as usual.

[Cherie]

What I never understand about the original issue leaving aside the issue of gay clergy people is if a gay couple are in the faith they would understand the teachings and accept it, and if they are not why would they want to be married in the Church its like me wanting to get married in a Synagogue even though I am not part of that faith....there are so many places people can get married why do they get so hung up about getting married in a Church ....mind boggling

[Soldier Boy]

Originally Posted by Cherie

What I never understand about the original issue leaving aside the issue of gay clergy people is if a gay couple are in the faith they would understand the teachings and accept it, and if they are not why would they want to be married in the Church its like me wanting to get married in a Synagogue even though I am not part of that faith....there are so many places people can get married why do they get so hung up about getting married in a Church ....mind boggling

I would say that I don't understand any gay person who has read any of the bible choosing to be a Christian ... but it's a bit of a moot point because I don't understand any person who has read any of the bible choosing to be a Christian .

Or really just any person with common sense choosing to be anything other than atheist-agnostic but that's a whole other debate .

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

I would say that I don't understand any gay person who has read any of the bible choosing to be a Christian ... but it's a bit of a moot point because I don't understand any person who has read any of the bible choosing to be a Christian .

Or really just any person with common sense choosing to be anything other than atheist-agnostic but that's a whole other debate .

Well I would consider myself a Christian but just for the nice bits...not been to Mass in years

[arista]

Cherie
do not mess with Justin Welby


He does not want to
Mary Gay Folks

[Soldier Boy]

Originally Posted by arista

Cherie
do not mess with Justin Welby


He does not want to
Mary Gay Folks

He legitimately looks like he would bite your face.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

He legitimately looks like he would bite your face.

Yes he is Tough Bugger

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

He legitimately looks like he would bite your face.

not before he has stabbed you in the throat with his crucifix

[arista]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

not before he has stabbed you in the throat with his crucifix

Yes Solid Metal

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by arista

cherie
do not mess with justin welby


he does not want
gay folks in general

my gaydar is going off

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by arista

Cherie
do not mess with Justin Welby


He does not want to
Mary Gay Folks

It would likely be a nightmare him taking a wedding service anyhow.
It takes him ages to get a sentence out.

The actual Churches are hypocrites anyhow.
It is one of the hard things of Christianity to do and all churchgoers and believers fail to do it too.
Myself included.
However the message, the main message of Christianity which in the end is the belief in Jesus Christ and his teachings.
That main message is NOT to judge, not condemn, not exclude ANYONE.
To be ALL inclusive.

There's no organised church movement which in any shape or form embraces even the will to carry that out never mind actually do so.