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bigbr0ther · 13-08-2008, 08:06 AM

1. Is christmas just a money making scam? If it is, it sure didn't start out that way. Christmas has been around for thousands of years, since before Jesus (yes, before Jesus).
2. Should only religious people celebrate christmas? Of course not. Christmas can be for everyone.
3. Should parents lie to their children regarding Santa? No. Lying is inexcusable. Be honest with your kids and tell them you're playing "The Santa Game." This allows them to have the fun of Santa, while still knowing it's really just a game and that Santa doesn't exist.
4. Is christmas too comercial? I don't think so. Personally I think it's the consumers who have made the stores obsess over it. It makes sense that at Christmas there's a higher demand, so we can't blame the stores for meeting that demand.
5. Has the true meaning of Christmas gone? Yes! Most people don't even know that the true meaning is to celebrate the shortest day of the year (or what was thought to be at the time, at least). Now everyone thinks it's to celebrate Jesus' birthday, which was actually on September 29th!

bananarama · 14-08-2008, 01:10 AM

Xmas has always been a money making scam. Based on fairy tales and exploited by big business.......

Sticks · 14-08-2008, 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bananarama
Xmas has always been a money making scam. Based on fairy tales and exploited by big business.......

See my reference to Flavius Josephus and Tacitus

Also add in Polycarp and Pliny the younger

The nearest to "fairy tales" would be the nativity depiction compared to the accounts given in Matthew and Luke

It is worthy of note that Cromwell passed anti-Christmas legislation, which showed his contempt for the season even back then.

These laws were never repealed

Tom · 14-08-2008, 09:58 AM

1. Is christmas just a money making scam? Kind of
2. Should only religious people celebrate christmas? People claiming to be atheist shouldn't
3. Should parents lie to their children regarding Santa? What do you mean, LIE?!

4. Is christmas too comercial? Yes
5. Has the true meaning of Christmas gone? Yes, but its still an excuse for a party so its all good

bigbr0ther · 14-08-2008, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tom
People claiming to be atheist shouldn't

Why is this? Don't atheists get to have fun too?

Tom · 14-08-2008, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bigbr0ther

Quote:

Originally posted by Tom
People claiming to be atheist shouldn't

Why is this? Don't atheists get to have fun too?

If someone is an atheist and is that strong about being one, then they wouldn't celebrate anything with religious roots. Its a bit contradictory IMO.

bigbr0ther · 14-08-2008, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TomIf someone is an atheist and is that strong about being one, then they wouldn't celebrate anything with religious roots. Its a bit contradictory IMO.

I'm an Episcopalian myself but the fact is that Christmas doesn't actually have religious roots. It's been around since before Jesus and the idea is to celebrate what was thought to be the shortest day of the year. Unfortunately it's been skewed to be about Jesus' birthday. I think we should celebrate Jesus' birthday but not on Christmas. Historians believe he was actually born on September 29th, so this is the day we should celebrate the birth of Christ. Christmas should be a separate holiday entirely.

Fom · 16-08-2008, 03:00 PM

I have a big opinion on this and i am completely open about this. And yes I do think it has gone, for the better? I think so.

I dont celebrate "Christmas" I celebrate "Xmas" the commercial version, I dont believe in god, I dont believe in Jesus. I believe in the family getting together for a meal giving each other presents while listening to songs you can only listen to on that day. Its special in its own way, None religious people should still be able to celebrate Christmas its not just a religious holiday anymore its a time when the world comes together and forgets everything and gets along.
If people dont like Atheists celebrating it well I dont care, Me and my family enjoy it and to me that is all that matters, i dont give two flying donkeys about wether I am harming the religion, Christianity means nothing to me. The same in fact goes for easter, to me... easter is just an excuse to eat chocolate and have some time off. Do I care about the roots or religion? Do I heck, If I am having fun why does it matter? Thats a big reason I am atheist in the first place, I have better things to do with my time than to read a stupid made up book and read its rules and follow them, Im gonna live life my way and I will do what I want.
If I want to celebrate Ramadan, I will! No one Muslim is going to stop me.

Spike · 16-08-2008, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fom
I have a big opinion on this and i am completely open about this. And yes I do think it has gone, for the better? I think so.

I dont celebrate "Christmas" I celebrate "Xmas" the commercial version, I dont believe in god, I dont believe in Jesus. I believe in the family getting together for a meal giving each other presents while listening to songs you can only listen to on that day. Its special in its own way, None religious people should still be able to celebrate Christmas its not just a religious holiday anymore its a time when the world comes together and forgets everything and gets along.
If people dont like Atheists celebrating it well I dont care, Me and my family enjoy it and to me that is all that matters, i dont give two flying donkeys about wether I am harming the religion, Christianity means nothing to me. The same in fact goes for easter, to me... easter is just an excuse to eat chocolate and have some time off. Do I care about the roots or religion? Do I heck, If I am having fun why does it matter? Thats a big reason I am atheist in the first place, I have better things to do with my time than to read a stupid made up book and read its rules and follow them, Im going to live life my way and I will do what I want.
If I want to celebrate Ramadan, I will! No one Muslim is going to stop me.

Thats exactly my thoughts on it and I also celebrate Xmas

Jen · 16-08-2008, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fom
I have a big opinion on this and i am completely open about this. And yes I do think it has gone, for the better? I think so.

I dont celebrate "Christmas" I celebrate "Xmas" the commercial version, I dont believe in god, I dont believe in Jesus. I believe in the family getting together for a meal giving each other presents while listening to songs you can only listen to on that day. Its special in its own way, None religious people should still be able to celebrate Christmas its not just a religious holiday anymore its a time when the world comes together and forgets everything and gets along.
If people dont like Atheists celebrating it well I dont care, Me and my family enjoy it and to me that is all that matters, i dont give two flying donkeys about wether I am harming the religion, Christianity means nothing to me. The same in fact goes for easter, to me... easter is just an excuse to eat chocolate and have some time off. Do I care about the roots or religion? Do I heck, If I am having fun why does it matter? Thats a big reason I am atheist in the first place, I have better things to do with my time than to read a stupid made up book and read its rules and follow them, Im going to live life my way and I will do what I want.
If I want to celebrate Ramadan, I will! No one Muslim is going to stop me.

I am in the exact same position..I don't believe in God, Jesus, Zues.. Whatev...well maybe Zues.. :P
But I celebrate Xmas..I don't want to feel horrible because 2000 years ago a guy was born and all MY love on a special day should go towards him... i LOVE presents...I don't need the Jee-Man telling me what to do...

Thanks :P

Conor · 16-08-2008, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bigbr0ther

Quote:

Originally posted by TomIf someone is an atheist and is that strong about being one, then they wouldn't celebrate anything with religious roots. Its a bit contradictory IMO.

I'm an Episcopalian myself but the fact is that Christmas doesn't actually have religious roots. It's been around since before Jesus and the idea is to celebrate what was thought to be the shortest day of the year. Unfortunately it's been skewed to be about Jesus' birthday. I think we should celebrate Jesus' birthday but not on Christmas. Historians believe he was actually born on September 29th, so this is the day we should celebrate the birth of Christ. Christmas should be a separate holiday entirely.

But real or not, if the bible wasn't written it would today be a small pegan festival most people would never hear about in their life. Same can be said for 'Xmas,' it wouldn't exist otherwise. Muslims and Hindus and Sieks don't celebrate it. Why athiests.

I'm guessing not many athiests will celebrate smaller Christian events.

Sticks · 16-08-2008, 05:02 PM

As a Christian, I do not recognise Christmas, as the Bible does not authorise us or command us to celebrate Jesus birth.

The celebration of Christmas and Easter, came later.

If anything, as stated, I prefer the Jewish festival Hanukkah, which is mentioned in the Gospel of John.

That said, what about atheists celebrating at this time, and getting together with the rest of the family and spending time together. I see no problem with that. The only problem I would have, is why limit yourselves to one day a year. Why need an excuse for a family get together.

If people want to celebrate the return of the Sun, and the beginning of the end of winter, let me know and I might join you, (minus dodgy robes and with a proper winter coat). It's all a celebration of God's wonderful creation.

Emzy-!! · 16-08-2008, 05:12 PM

I think in England Christmas is all about the presents, but in America they really care about the whole thing because they go to church and make a massive deal out of it.

gavinh2008 · 16-08-2008, 05:14 PM

I mainly look forward to the atmosphere of Christmas, mainly Christmas Eve too, I just love the whole scenery around that time, the decorations, the happy people, I do love presents but I can live without

Conor · 16-08-2008, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Emzy-!!
I think in England Christmas is all about the presents, but in America they really care about the whole thing because they go to church and make a massive deal out of it.

America is actually 10 times more commercial.

Indierock&roll · 17-08-2008, 11:10 PM

i love christmas but i used to like it a lot better when i did believe in santa, it was more christmassy because id watch christmas films and it would be like aw
i do still love it though

Fom · 17-08-2008, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Conor

Quote:

Originally posted by Emzy-!!
I think in England Christmas is all about the presents, but in America they really care about the whole thing because they go to church and make a massive deal out of it.

America is actually 10 times more commercial.

Well its 50/50
Its a big country... a lot of people stick to the routes, and a lot dont!

bigbr0ther · 18-08-2008, 05:03 AM

Wow, a LOT of shallow people on this thread. Case in point.

Quote:

Originally posted by JDIZZEL
I don't want to feel horrible because 2000 years ago a guy was born and all MY love on a special day should go towards him... i LOVE presents...I don't need the Jee-Man telling me what to do...

Thanks :P

What a sad state the world is in.

Princess · 18-08-2008, 05:40 AM

I think the meaning of Christmas has changed for most people but I don't think it has gone. Before Christmas was all religion and the miracle of Christ and all that. But now because more people are open about how they feel about religion,the views of what Christmas are has changed.

I don't believe it is a money-making scam. I think it is about the Christmas atmosphere-putting up deccies with your family,going christmas shopping with friends,having everyone you meet wish you a 'merry christmas'. It is universally a happy time and a time for people to come together and enjoy Christmas together.

It may not be about religion anymore but the love is still there.

bigbr0ther · 23-08-2008, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Princess
I think the meaning of Christmas has changed for most people but I don't think it has gone. Before Christmas was all religion and the miracle of Christ and all that. But now because more people are open about how they feel about religion,the views of what Christmas are has changed.

I don't believe it is a money-making scam. I think it is about the Christmas atmosphere-putting up deccies with your family,going christmas shopping with friends,having everyone you meet wish you a 'merry christmas'. It is universally a happy time and a time for people to come together and enjoy Christmas together.

It may not be about religion anymore but the love is still there.

Christmas.
Is.
Not.
About.
The.
Birth.
Of.
Christ.

It's.
About.
The.
Shortest.
Day.
Of.
The.
Year.

Nothing.
Religious.
About.
It.

Thanks.

30stone · 24-08-2008, 12:49 AM

Meh i love christmas the meaning of christmas came back to me last years

where my parents didnt argue we done a lot of family things and had an amazing christmas day.

go out on the first weekend of december to get our tree as a family it was great and then seeing how happy my grandparents were is just bliss.

Though sadly my dad and brother fell out with his parents and my mums parents so christmas wont be so good though its still a work in progress im tyring to make it all work.