[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I totally get why you'd want separation of state and church. Shocking that some children are disadvantaged for potential education because their parents aren't interested in religion.

It's absolutely shocking but It will change, there's been a lot of talk and grumblings about that in the last few years

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

It's absolutely shocking but It will change, there's been a lot of talk and grumblings about that in the last few years

I saw a programme talking about how there seems to be a a change in peoples attitudes to the church in Ireland in recent years. Was very interesting.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I saw a programme talking about how there seems to be a a change in peoples attitudes to the church in Ireland in recent years. Was very interesting.

Oh there really is, I can see it myself and I'm sure my parents even more so

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Oh there really is, I can see it myself and I'm sure my parents even more so

It makes me wonder if the change will make unification of North and South possible in future if the changes do come about.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by jaxie

It makes me wonder if the change will make Unification of North and South possible in future if the changes do come about.

No offense here Jaxie but I'm truly shocked everytime a British person makes a comment like that The lack of understanding you seem to have about North/South Ireland is baffling. You know the North and South isn't a religious feud. We weren't fighting between eachother to convert eachother or whatever. The reason why so many Protestants in Northern ireland want to stay within the UK is because they were mostly originally from there as that's the most prominent religion in Britain and the reason why most nationalists are catholic is because they were probably mostly originally irish as that was the most prominent religion in Ireland.

have no doubt that Ireland splitting in two and the IRA forming and all the troubles up there, is because Britain invaded our country and when they decided to give it back eventually, split it in two for some reason......it almost seems like it's been pawned off to Irish fighting amongst eachother in some religious war instead of what it actually was, Nationalists wanting Ireland to be one again and Unionists wanting to be British (because they mostly were from Britain anyway originally)

All religion had to do with it really was a way of identifying where your allegiances lay (ie Irish(catholic) V's British(Protestant)

[Ammi]

...I'm just reading up a bit about the school/education structure in Ireland.../which is obviously as you say, Niamh...

http://www.dochara.com/the-irish/facts/about-religion/


Freedom of conscience and the free profession and practice of religion are, subject to public order and morality, guaranteed to every citizen, and no law may be made either directly or indirectly to endow any religion, or prohibit or restrict the free exercise thereof or give any preference, or impose any disability on account of religious belief or religious status, or affect prejudicially the right of any child to attend a school receiving public money without attending the religious instruction at the school, or make any discrimination as respects State aid between schools under the management of different religious denominations
Constitutionally the result is that Ireland is one of the most religiously free countries in the world.



While the constitution does not place one religion over another, this would be hard to detect when looking at the state education system. There is a system of free state funded primary (elementary) schools, known as National Scools, but these are invariably Catholic schools in all but name. Although pupils of any religion may, and do, attend, the schools are governed by boards chaired by the local Catholic bishop and the teaching of Catholic Religion is central to the curriculum.
Those who wish to attend a school where another religion is taught, or an inter-denominational or non-denominational one, can do so in privately run schools, though these do receive state funding. However these schools do not exist in many areas, or are over-subscribed, and the reality is that over 90% of primary schools are Catholic run. There are some moves by the government to rectify this situation, but the wheels seem to be turning slowly.
It’s often suggested that this lack of choice in schools is one of the reasons that people who no longer practice their Catholic religion, or who have essentially left religion behind, still have their children baptised – it’s all about getting a place at the local school.
At secondary (high school) level, the vast majority of schools, while funded by the state, are run by religious and have a faith based ethos, although in a time of dwindling vocations and aging congregations many have latterly turned over day to day management to* lay trusts.


...so it's (religion yes..)...but the abuse of power in that religion of people ... of the bishops who chair the school governing boards and decide on place preferences...(and those preferences being baptised Catholic children..)..?...and they're going against the whole constitution and ethos of a country and changes that it's striving for...

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...I'm just reading up a bit about the school/education structure in Ireland.../which is obviously as you say, Niamh...

http://www.dochara.com/the-irish/facts/about-religion/


Freedom of conscience and the free profession and practice of religion are, subject to public order and morality, guaranteed to every citizen, and no law may be made either directly or indirectly to endow any religion, or prohibit or restrict the free exercise thereof or give any preference, or impose any disability on account of religious belief or religious status, or affect prejudicially the right of any child to attend a school receiving public money without attending the religious instruction at the school, or make any discrimination as respects State aid between schools under the management of different religious denominations
Constitutionally the result is that Ireland is one of the most religiously free countries in the world.



While the constitution does not place one religion over another, this would be hard to detect when looking at the state education system. There is a system of free state funded primary (elementary) schools, known as National Scools, but these are invariably Catholic schools in all but name. Although pupils of any religion may, and do, attend, the schools are governed by boards chaired by the local Catholic bishop and the teaching of Catholic Religion is central to the curriculum.
Those who wish to attend a school where another religion is taught, or an inter-denominational or non-denominational one, can do so in privately run schools, though these do receive state funding. However these schools do not exist in many areas, or are over-subscribed, and the reality is that over 90% of primary schools are Catholic run. There are some moves by the government to rectify this situation, but the wheels seem to be turning slowly.
It’s often suggested that this lack of choice in schools is one of the reasons that people who no longer practice their Catholic religion, or who have essentially left religion behind, still have their children baptised – it’s all about getting a place at the local school.
At secondary (high school) level, the vast majority of schools, while funded by the state, are run by religious and have a faith based ethos, although in a time of dwindling vocations and aging congregations many have latterly turned over day to day management to* lay trusts.


...so it's (religion yes..)...but the abuse of power in that religion of people ... of the bishops who chair the school governing boards and decide on place preferences...(and those preferences being baptised Catholic children..)..?...and they're going against the whole constitution and ethos of a country and changes that it's striving for...

Yep in a nut shell Ammi. My daughters secondary school, like that article says, has a Catholic ethos but it's not anywhere near as invasive as primary school. They do religion as an exam subject but they learn about other religions and it's more of a study of them rather than this is how it is type of thing.....although they do still have a Catholic religion class too. I could opt her out of that but she doesn't want a fuss made, she just goes eventhough she thinks it's all BS

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

No offense here Jaxie but I'm truly shocked everytime a British person makes a comment like that The lack of understanding you seem to have about North/South Ireland is baffling. You know the North and South isn't a religious feud. We weren't fighting between eachother to convert eachother or whatever. The reason why so many Protestants in Northern ireland want to stay within the UK is because they were mostly originally from there as that's the most prominent religion in Britain and the reason why most nationalists are catholic is because they were probably mostly originally irish as that was the most prominent religion in Ireland.

have no doubt that Ireland splitting in two and the IRA forming and all the troubles up there, is because Britain invaded our country and when they decided to give it back eventually, split it in two for some reason......it almost seems like it's been pawned off to Irish fighting amongst eachother in some religious war instead of what it actually was, Nationalists wanting Ireland to be one again and Unionists wanting to be British (because they mostly were from Britain anyway originally)

All religion had to do with it really was a way of identifying where your allegiances lay (ie Irish(catholic) V's British(Protestant)

I have friends in both areas. I was wondering if the changing of attitudes continues 'change' of itself might make people start to come together one day. I know it's a loyalist and republican issue rather than a religious one though some superstition doesn't seem to have helped or has been used an excuse.

Though I think the British are at least partially ignorant about the problems as I think a lot was withheld through reporting restrictions etc.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I have friends in both areas. I was wondering if the changing of attitudes continues 'change' of itself might make people start to come together one day. I know it's a loyalist and republican issue rather than a religious one though some superstition doesn't seem to have helped or has been used an excuse.

Though I think the British are at least partially ignorant about the problems as I think a lot was withheld through reporting restrictions etc.

I don't think so really. What it boils down to now is whether those in Northern Ireland want to move out of the UK and join, which is now as so much time has passed, a "new" country. I can't see Ireland ever being unified now, too much water under the bridge and time passing, that ship has long sailed unfortunately

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I have friends in both areas. I was wondering if the changing of attitudes continues 'change' of itself might make people start to come together one day. I know it's a loyalist and republican issue rather than a religious one though some superstition doesn't seem to have helped or has been used an excuse.

Though I think the British are at least partially ignorant about the problems as I think a lot was withheld through reporting restrictions etc.

What superstition is this? People in the North feel British or Irish, it has never been a religious conflict, the media have always reported it as Catholic/Protestant which waters it down to something more palatable maybe

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by jaxie

It makes me wonder if the change will make unification of North and South possible in future if the changes do come about.

The conflict was about land borders and nationality, nothing to do with religion. It just happened most of those wanting a united Ireland were Irish Catholics and most wanting to stay within the Union are English Protestants