[-Sue-]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

I said he was kind of right. Trash, white trash. They were.

I draw the line at it being "racist". You need to brush up on your history love.

I read it thanks i just meant the quote i said was jermaine calling them 'white trash' when you quoted you said he was right they are trash.. i was kidding that you had left off 'white' that is all.. no history lesson needed... simple misunderstanding..

[Lilac hills]

She has very appalling views but in the house she’s shown no signs of homophobia

Being disgusted Shane j and Andrew isn’t homophobia, it’s clalled having a functioning bran to see past the bs

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by HBIC

Maybe we should have accepted the way Jade, Danielle, and Jo treated Shilpa in CBB5. After all they also had different views...

...or maybe not because some views are not acceptable and should be challenged.

This is Celebrity Big Brother, of course these housemates are going to be judged by the things they've done OUTSIDE the house. Because that is why they are in there in the first place.

So you are going to judge badly an elected politician doing parliamentary duties?

oh wait

you mean she disagrees with your politics so you will hate on her



ok jan, sure

[-Sue-]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...I’ve always found her very interesting in the house, despite her political views and how she hasn’t felt homosexuals are entitled to equal rights etc...but the last few days especially I just can’t get on board with her at all because yes, she has displayed what would be ‘homophobia’...I won’t look at your dictionary definitions, NM.....when she said that ShaneJ was ‘disgusting’ for saying he and Andrew were in love or something, that maybe was open to some interpretation of whether she wasn’t being serious..he was teasing her so maybe she was teasing back...?...but when her reasons for nomination were ‘for obscene dramatic behaviour’, which I think is what she said...then that nomination was serious with no doubt, so for me nothing could be interpreted any other which way...in your dictionary there, NM...you’ll see some of the definitions for ‘obscene’ are depraved, amoral, degenerate, salacious and filthy......those definitions are for the word she used to describe two guys having a bit of rough and tumble play fighting and fully clothed..without anything sexual involved at all..(..and for sure Ann knows her words and knew exactly which word described her thoughts, which she verbalised..)..I can’t really see how that can not be anything other than an aversion to their fun fight because I would say the hugs etc that she and Amanda and Jess etc have shared while in the house are a more intimate display than play fighting is...hugs are quite an intimate thing but she has no objection to those...


...I’m not really on board with ‘she’s best friends with Amanda’ either because ...(..and we can only look at these things by what we see in highlights...)...I’ve never seen where she has shown any interest in Amanda in terms of her partner or talk to her about her coming out with her sexuality much later in life...actually I’ve never seen her ask anything of Wayne either in terms of his sexuality as he was born in a time he would have been greatly affected with society views...they have both spoke about some things, I know...but I haven’t seen Ann actually ask or show any interest or be any active participant in those chats...and surely you would do that of a ‘best friend’...

oooh superb posts some truly great points thank you

[joeysteele]

I say yes she has demonstrated an unhealthy intolerance.
Taking aside her anti gay rights record from her determined action voting against all.

In the house,her disapproval of most of what Shane and Andrew had,whatever it was.

Yes,she comes from a different age,has religious beliefs,usually described as crackpot ideas on here when it suits.
That does not and should not excuse the intolerance.

I say yes she has shown to be homophobic.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...I’ve always found her very interesting in the house, despite her political views and how she hasn’t felt homosexuals are entitled to equal rights etc...but the last few days especially I just can’t get on board with her at all because yes, she has displayed what would be ‘homophobia’...I won’t look at your dictionary definitions, NM.....when she said that ShaneJ was ‘disgusting’ for saying he and Andrew were in love or something, that maybe was open to some interpretation of whether she wasn’t being serious..he was teasing her so maybe she was teasing back...?...but when her reasons for nomination were ‘for obscene dramatic behaviour’, which I think is what she said...then that nomination was serious with no doubt, so for me nothing could be interpreted any other which way...in your dictionary there, NM...you’ll see some of the definitions for ‘obscene’ are depraved, amoral, degenerate, salacious and filthy......those definitions are for the word she used to describe two guys having a bit of rough and tumble play fighting and fully clothed..without anything sexual involved at all..(..and for sure Ann knows her words and knew exactly which word described her thoughts, which she verbalised..)..I can’t really see how that can not be anything other than an aversion to their fun fight because I would say the hugs etc that she and Amanda and Jess etc have shared while in the house are a more intimate display than play fighting is...hugs are quite an intimate thing but she has no objection to those...


...I’m not really on board with ‘she’s best friends with Amanda’ either because ...(..and we can only look at these things by what we see in highlights...)...I’ve never seen where she has shown any interest in Amanda in terms of her partner or talk to her about her coming out with her sexuality much later in life...actually I’ve never seen her ask anything of Wayne either in terms of his sexuality as he was born in a time he would have been greatly affected with society views...they have both spoke about some things, I know...but I haven’t seen Ann actually ask or show any interest or be any active participant in those chats...and surely you would do that of a ‘best friend’...

What brilliant observations.
In particular to Amanda and Wayne.

I've often thought do they,knowing her, avoid any talk around her of their own experiences.

On going in,Amanda was gushing as to her partner,from being around Ann,she seems never to have discussed their life at all.

So many points,as there are usually anyway,to digest and consider there in your post.

Superb post as ever.

[Jay.]

no, i don't think she's homophobic. but she's clearly against gay rights.. which is not considered a common ideology in today's modern society. she's behind the times, not entirely homophobic, but bloody borderline.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Yes,she comes from a different age,has religious beliefs,usually described as crackpot ideas on here when it suits.
That does not and should not excuse the intolerance.

A very good observation joey.

I, too, have been amused at the number of posters who normally take glee on ridiculing religion and any notion of it now using it as a means to seriously defend Ann.

It's baffling to say the least.

[poppsywoppsy]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

What brilliant observations.
In particular to Amanda and Wayne.

I've often thought do they,knowing her, avoid any talk around her of their own experiences.

On going in,Amanda was gushing as to her partner,from being around Ann,she seems never to have discussed their life at all.

So many points,as there are usually anyway,to digest and consider there in your post.

Superb post as ever.

They show around 45 minutes from 24 hours

Maggie said they didn't show her discussions

While these showmance take up so much airtime, is it any wonder Ann and Amanda's chats are not shown.

What was shown was Amanda's knocking back Shane Js attempts to make Ann look bad. She was adamant that he was wrong and strongly put him right. Amanda supported Ann totally and Jess as well.

I therefore do not know how you come to the conclusions you have.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...I’ve always found her very interesting in the house, despite her political views and how she hasn’t felt homosexuals are entitled to equal rights etc...but the last few days especially I just can’t get on board with her at all because yes, she has displayed what would be ‘homophobia’...I won’t look at your dictionary definitions, NM.....when she said that ShaneJ was ‘disgusting’ for saying he and Andrew were in love or something, that maybe was open to some interpretation of whether she wasn’t being serious..he was teasing her so maybe she was teasing back...?...but when her reasons for nomination were ‘for obscene dramatic behaviour’, which I think is what she said...then that nomination was serious with no doubt, so for me nothing could be interpreted any other which way...in your dictionary there, NM...you’ll see some of the definitions for ‘obscene’ are depraved, amoral, degenerate, salacious and filthy......those definitions are for the word she used to describe two guys having a bit of rough and tumble play fighting and fully clothed..without anything sexual involved at all..(..and for sure Ann knows her words and knew exactly which word described her thoughts, which she verbalised..)..I can’t really see how that can not be anything other than an aversion to their fun fight because I would say the hugs etc that she and Amanda and Jess etc have shared while in the house are a more intimate display than play fighting is...hugs are quite an intimate thing but she has no objection to those...


...I’m not really on board with ‘she’s best friends with Amanda’ either because ...(..and we can only look at these things by what we see in highlights...)...I’ve never seen where she has shown any interest in Amanda in terms of her partner or talk to her about her coming out with her sexuality much later in life...actually I’ve never seen her ask anything of Wayne either in terms of his sexuality as he was born in a time he would have been greatly affected with society views...they have both spoke about some things, I know...but I haven’t seen Ann actually ask or show any interest or be any active participant in those chats...and surely you would do that of a ‘best friend’...

However all the things/situations you mention other than maybe her voting record during her career in parliament are up for interpretation.
If you’re coming at it from an ‘Anns a nasty homophobe’ perspective then that is undoubtedly how you will perceive anything negative she says.Same goes if you’re in the other camp.
If she was homophobic she would hate the gay people in there.Amanda’s sexuality would be a problem for her.Imo her not asking about Amanda’s relationship doesn’t prove anything.She may not feel it’s her business or just not want to know.Relationships and love are a touchy subject for Ann aswell as having kids.She also never seems to pry into people’s personal life regarding that as far as i’ve seen.

[LeatherTrumpet]

what is baffling is that some on here got owned last night by Rylan

yes Rylan

but are still posting their anti-Ann political stuff


truly baffling

[poppsywoppsy]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

what is baffling is that some on here got owned last night by Rylan

yes Rylan

but are still posting their anti-Ann political stuff


truly baffling

They don't like it up em, Mr Mainwaring

[Marsh.]

Imagine taking Rylan seriously.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by poppsywoppsy

They show around 45 minutes from 24 hours

Maggie said they didn't show her discussions

While these showmance take up so much airtime, is it any wonder Ann and Amanda's chats are not shown.

What was shown was Amanda's knocking back Shane Js attempts to make Ann look bad. She was adamant that he was wrong and strongly put him right. Amanda supported Ann totally and Jess as well.

I therefore do not know how you come to the conclusions you have.

I actually said 'I thought' not that I had concluded.
It's an observation and the brilliant long post earlier from another member.
Brought the thought of why Amanda has not been seen engaging in any conversation on her life now,with or even around Ann.

[caprimint]

Her "that's disgusting" comment to Shane & Andrew did suggest this tbh

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

However all the things/situations you mention other than maybe her voting record during her career in parliament are up for interpretation.
If you’re coming at it from an ‘Anns a nasty homophobe’ perspective then that is undoubtedly how you will perceive anything negative she says.Same goes if you’re in the other camp.
If she was homophobic she would hate the gay people in there.Amanda’s sexuality would be a problem for her.Imo her not asking about Amanda’s relationship doesn’t prove anything.She may not feel it’s her business or just not want to know.Relationships and love are a touchy subject for Ann aswell as having kids.She also never seems to pry into people’s personal life regarding that as far as i’ve seen.

...of course, NM...in terms of characters traits in housemates, these will always be from the perspectives of those observing in that environment...but the ‘Ann’s a nasty homophobe’ or the ‘other camp’ as you say would indicate only two camps of perspectives, which I don’t believe there only is...there is lots of acres of land between those camps and also all around them.....so many perspectives, rather than it just being one or the other and nothing inbetween...hmmm but if there were only two camps of thought/perspective..?...then you would be ‘the other’, I know this because you have posed the question of whether Ann has showed homophobia traits in the house and said you didn’t think she had...so with those thoughts of you feeling that she hadn’t, wouldn’t your perspective probably be that you would ‘see’ a reason for certain aspects of her so that it all sat right with you...oh no, it couldn’t be that because if it was how could she tolerate this or feel comfortable with that and there has been no ‘hate’ so how can that be, she can’t have those traits, there are other reasons and etc, is how our thoughts work, isn’t it....?...My perspective wouldn’t be ‘she’s a nasty homophobe’ because I don’t think she is...there are many aspects to a person’s character and who they are which is why I dislike labels so much because one character trait doesn’t entirely define a whole person...she’s not nasty and I wouldn’t label her a homophobe but that can still mean she has indeed displayed homophobia traits...because there really aren’t only two camps of it having to be one completely or the other completely...

...hmmm no I don’t think Ann ‘hates’ either, she doesn’t seem at all like a ‘hating’ person to me...but then hate would be an extreme of a camp and having a character trait isn’t an extreme, is it... we all have traits and one of those with Ann, I feel would be classed as a homophobic trait...again though, another housemate’s sexuality isn’t their whole person and everything they are, which is why Ann can still be fine with other aspects to them in the house...

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Imagine taking Rylan seriously.

...Nope I tried but just couldn’t imagine that, Marsh ......




...(I stole your fan babes..)......

[Denver]

She doesnt hate gay people but hates the sexual acts

[sungrass]

Originally Posted by -Sue-

I have to disagree I think a lot of how shane J feels (even though I am not him and can't be exact on his opinion so I will just say how I see it) what I have heard her say in regards to LGBT / section 28 even her comments on Meghan Markle she left a whole religion due to women being ordained! feel free to google any of these...so many more disgusting views she has on things.. ann is set in her ways incapable of learning seeing things from others point of view thus not allowing herself to perhaps changing her mind on things instead she is stuck in the dark ages of how things 'used to be' is why shane feels the way he does I do feel she isn't as accepting as people think now if that comes across as homophobic not sure I want to throw that word out there but it sure does mean it's not someone I would ever want as a 'friend'

I find her rude intolerant of others views not open minded at all..

agreed - well put.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...Nope I tried but just couldn’t imagine that, Marsh ......




...(I stole your fan babes..)......

Ammi knows

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Adam.

She doesnt hate gay people but hates the sexual acts

[GoldHeart]

I bet when CBB ends people will still continue with the witch Hunt of Ann .

[-Sue-]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

I bet when CBB ends people will still continue with the witch Hunt of Ann .

doubtful seeing as all other end of BB's we stop giving a sh*t lol

[poppsywoppsy]

The one word she said about Meghan Markle was trouble.

I think she could be trouble too, not for the racist angle before you all jump up and down

It will be because of the closed shop attitudes of the aristocracy. The Marquis of Baths sons beautiful wife who is of mixed race has come up against this already.

Look how they treated Diana, who was not of mixed race and doors will not be open to Meghan by these dinosaurs.

I feel there will be trouble ahead for Meghan, their antiquated views will be ingrained and she will need Harry to guide her through unlike Charles who threw Diana to the wolves.

Those who beat Ann with yet another stick, have you thought about this angle before you charge her with another crime she is not guilty of.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...of course, NM...in terms of characters traits in housemates, these will always be from the perspectives of those observing in that environment...but the ‘Ann’s a nasty homophobe’ or the ‘other camp’ as you say would indicate only two camps of perspectives, which I don’t believe there only is...there is lots of acres of land between those camps and also all around them.....so many perspectives, rather than it just being one or the other and nothing inbetween...hmmm but if there were only two camps of thought/perspective..?...then you would be ‘the other’, I know this because you have posed the question of whether Ann has showed homophobia traits in the house and said you didn’t think she had...so with those thoughts of you feeling that she hadn’t, wouldn’t your perspective probably be that you would ‘see’ a reason for certain aspects of her so that it all sat right with you...oh no, it couldn’t be that because if it was how could she tolerate this or feel comfortable with that and there has been no ‘hate’ so how can that be, she can’t have those traits, there are other reasons and etc, is how our thoughts work, isn’t it....?...My perspective wouldn’t be ‘she’s a nasty homophobe’ because I don’t think she is...there are many aspects to a person’s character and who they are which is why I dislike labels so much because one character trait doesn’t entirely define a whole person...she’s not nasty and I wouldn’t label her a homophobe but that can still mean she has indeed displayed homophobia traits...because there really aren’t only two camps of it having to be one completely or the other completely...

...hmmm no I don’t think Ann ‘hates’ either, she doesn’t seem at all like a ‘hating’ person to me...but then hate would be an extreme of a camp and having a character trait isn’t an extreme, is it... we all have traits and one of those with Ann, I feel would be classed as a homophobic trait...again though, another housemate’s sexuality isn’t their whole person and everything they are, which is why Ann can still be fine with other aspects to them in the house...

I actually pretty much agree with amost all of your post.I made a similar post in another thread about the best or right answer usually being somewhere in the middle ground.The opinions on here in ‘on’ season are usually very tribalistic and biased and i know i’ve been guilty of that too

So i think our only disagreement would probably be as to what the threshold is as to what constitutes homophobia.

I just don’t immediately jump to that whenever Ann says something negative about somebody who happens to be gay or when she’s annoyed with certain behaviour.
Other people see it differently.
I think for me to believe she is homophobic it would take something more blatant and out of the grey area.Or what proof do we have?