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01-09-2016, 09:36 AM | #126 | |||
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I totally get why you'd want separation of state and church. Shocking that some children are disadvantaged for potential education because their parents aren't interested in religion.
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01-09-2016, 09:36 AM | #127 | ||
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01-09-2016, 09:41 AM | #128 | |||
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I Love my brick
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Spoiler: Last edited by Niamh.; 01-09-2016 at 09:43 AM. |
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01-09-2016, 09:42 AM | #129 | |||
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It's absolutely shocking but It will change, there's been a lot of talk and grumblings about that in the last few years
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01-09-2016, 09:43 AM | #130 | |||
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Quand il pleut, il pleut
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01-09-2016, 09:46 AM | #131 | |||
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I Love my brick
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Kind of, I mean I always put down in the census No Religion but I did get them baptised and they've made their communions etc but I've always told them from when they started school that eventhough when the teacher teaches you religion and says this stuff is true, I don't believe it is and that you have to think about it yourself and decide what you believe. None of them do believe any of it
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Spoiler: Last edited by Niamh.; 01-09-2016 at 09:47 AM. |
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01-09-2016, 09:54 AM | #132 | |||
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Quand il pleut, il pleut
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01-09-2016, 09:59 AM | #133 | |||
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I Love my brick
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The problem with the schools is that it was the Catholic church who started most of them up originally, but they don't pay for them now, we the tax payers do and tbh with all the horrible s**t they were responsible for back then, setting up some schools was the least they could give back imo
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01-09-2016, 10:12 AM | #134 | |||
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This Witch doesn't burn
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school system who were non Catholics and who weren't disadvantaged, they had the same education as everyone else? This was back in the early 90s they just didn't attend RE |
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01-09-2016, 10:15 AM | #135 | |||
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I Love my brick
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I feel really strongly about this actually, religion has no place in schools and there certainly shouldn't be a policy of students having to sit out of part of valuable school time because Religion is being taught or the classes are preparing for masses/confirmations/communions and the latter two take up huge chunks of school time.
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Spoiler: Last edited by Niamh.; 01-09-2016 at 10:23 AM. |
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01-09-2016, 10:22 AM | #136 | |||
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Did you just call me a nutter?
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01-09-2016, 10:23 AM | #137 | |||
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I saw a programme talking about how there seems to be a a change in peoples attitudes to the church in Ireland in recent years. Was very interesting.
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In ancient times cats were worshipped as gods; they have not forgotten this. Terry Pratchett “I am thrilled to be alive at time when humanity is pushing against the limits of understanding. Even better, we may eventually discover that there are no limits.” ― Richard Dawkins |
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01-09-2016, 10:26 AM | #138 | |||
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Oh there really is, I can see it myself and I'm sure my parents even more so
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01-09-2016, 10:30 AM | #139 | |||
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It makes me wonder if the change will make unification of North and South possible in future if the changes do come about.
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In ancient times cats were worshipped as gods; they have not forgotten this. Terry Pratchett “I am thrilled to be alive at time when humanity is pushing against the limits of understanding. Even better, we may eventually discover that there are no limits.” ― Richard Dawkins Last edited by jaxie; 01-09-2016 at 10:33 AM. |
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01-09-2016, 10:36 AM | #140 | |||
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I Love my brick
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have no doubt that Ireland splitting in two and the IRA forming and all the troubles up there, is because Britain invaded our country and when they decided to give it back eventually, split it in two for some reason......it almost seems like it's been pawned off to Irish fighting amongst eachother in some religious war instead of what it actually was, Nationalists wanting Ireland to be one again and Unionists wanting to be British (because they mostly were from Britain anyway originally) All religion had to do with it really was a way of identifying where your allegiances lay (ie Irish(catholic) V's British(Protestant)
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Spoiler: Last edited by Niamh.; 01-09-2016 at 10:51 AM. |
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01-09-2016, 10:54 AM | #141 | |||
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This Witch doesn't burn
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The conflict was about land borders and nationality, nothing to do with religion. It just happened most of those wanting a united Ireland were Irish Catholics and most wanting to stay within the Union are English Protestants
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01-09-2016, 10:55 AM | #142 | |||
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I Love my brick
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This article explains it well I think
Northern Ireland was provisioned as a separate territory in 1922. This point of contention between England and the Republic of Ireland turned habitually violent in 1969 with the formation of the IRA (Irish Republican Army), a terror group that was considered to be the armed wing of the Sinn Fein political party, which supports Irish nationalism and Marxist ideology. The violence abated in the mid-1990's with an agreement between the sides. Although it's popular to think of this chapter in the conflict as Catholic versus Protestant, it is also simplistic and misleading. The IRA does not stand for "Catholic Army." Historians and political scientists usually describe the two sides with words like Nationalist, Republican, Ulster, Loyalist and Unionist. Even the religious sectarian labels often did not hold up. Protestants were found on both sides of the conflict, for example, and there were notable Catholics who remained loyal to England. The IRA did not have a Biblical charter. In fact, they were a Marxist-atheist organization. Neither did the British government have religious motives, nor any of the other major groups. There were some smaller, radical groups that used the language of religious purity, but they were relatively obscure. The issue for the "Catholic" factions was Irish nationalism, and for the "Protestants" it was self-preservation and an end to the violence. Only a very small minority of the citizens in Northern Ireland actually participated in the conflict, although the grief was spread among many. Church leaders on both sides routinely condemned the violence - in fact, the Catholic church excommunicated members of the IRA. The claims of responsibility for the bombings and assassinations did not typically quote from the Bible or make reference to God. (Muslim terrorists quote liberally from the Quran in their statements, and are very explicit about their battle for the cause of Islam). Neither was there any expressed interest on the part of either side in the Northern Ireland conflict to convert unbelievers or spread sectarian beliefs beyond the disputed area. Protestant clerics in Ireland weren't targeted by Irish Catholics (for being clerics) and neither were priests in England by English Protestants. Religious affiliation was a loose marker of identity, but there were no glaring theological differences between Protestants and Catholics on which the conflict was specifically based. Rather it was political in nature. https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/p...ira-islam.aspx
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Spoiler: Last edited by Niamh.; 01-09-2016 at 11:53 AM. |
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01-09-2016, 10:58 AM | #143 | |||
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This Witch doesn't burn
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That's discrimination and should be challenged |
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01-09-2016, 11:00 AM | #144 | |||
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Quand il pleut, il pleut
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...I'm just reading up a bit about the school/education structure in Ireland.../which is obviously as you say, Niamh...
http://www.dochara.com/the-irish/facts/about-religion/ Freedom of conscience and the free profession and practice of religion are, subject to public order and morality, guaranteed to every citizen, and no law may be made either directly or indirectly to endow any religion, or prohibit or restrict the free exercise thereof or give any preference, or impose any disability on account of religious belief or religious status, or affect prejudicially the right of any child to attend a school receiving public money without attending the religious instruction at the school, or make any discrimination as respects State aid between schools under the management of different religious denominations Constitutionally the result is that Ireland is one of the most religiously free countries in the world. While the constitution does not place one religion over another, this would be hard to detect when looking at the state education system. There is a system of free state funded primary (elementary) schools, known as National Scools, but these are invariably Catholic schools in all but name. Although pupils of any religion may, and do, attend, the schools are governed by boards chaired by the local Catholic bishop and the teaching of Catholic Religion is central to the curriculum. Those who wish to attend a school where another religion is taught, or an inter-denominational or non-denominational one, can do so in privately run schools, though these do receive state funding. However these schools do not exist in many areas, or are over-subscribed, and the reality is that over 90% of primary schools are Catholic run. There are some moves by the government to rectify this situation, but the wheels seem to be turning slowly. It’s often suggested that this lack of choice in schools is one of the reasons that people who no longer practice their Catholic religion, or who have essentially left religion behind, still have their children baptised – it’s all about getting a place at the local school. At secondary (high school) level, the vast majority of schools, while funded by the state, are run by religious and have a faith based ethos, although in a time of dwindling vocations and aging congregations many have latterly turned over day to day management to* lay trusts. ...so it's (religion yes..)...but the abuse of power in that religion of people ... of the bishops who chair the school governing boards and decide on place preferences...(and those preferences being baptised Catholic children..)..?...and they're going against the whole constitution and ethos of a country and changes that it's striving for... Last edited by Ammi; 01-09-2016 at 11:03 AM. |
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01-09-2016, 11:01 AM | #145 | |||
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What should be challenged is the churches involvement in schools altogether imo
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01-09-2016, 11:04 AM | #146 | |||
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Quand il pleut, il pleut
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01-09-2016, 11:06 AM | #147 | |||
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I Love my brick
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01-09-2016, 11:11 AM | #148 | |||
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Quand il pleut, il pleut
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01-09-2016, 11:16 AM | #149 | |||
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self-oscillating
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Some schools will have a good science department and therfore champion it an encourage pupils into studying those subjects. Other schools are noted for their sporting achievements, and so give preference to it over other things when the situation arises.
What I'm trying to say is that every school has an inherent agenda in whatever area you would like to investigate. Where does one start in making things fair for all, because its not, and it never will be. Last edited by bots; 01-09-2016 at 11:16 AM. |
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01-09-2016, 11:19 AM | #150 | |||
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Quand il pleut, il pleut
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Last edited by Ammi; 01-09-2016 at 11:24 AM. |
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