[Jack_]

Salman's thread reminded me of this I heard the other day so I thought I may as well post it. It's a really sad but interesting listen

This if nothing else proves that we need to give people like this more support, no wonder so many child sex offences happen when they don't have anyone to talk to about it...

This 19-Year-Old Pedophile Has Never Gone Near A Child. And He Needs You To Hear His Story.

"This American Life" decided to take on a REALLY hard topic: pedophilia. As a parent of two young kids, just hearing the word triggers a rage in me that I didn't even know I had. This is a hard episode to listen to, but it's really important that you do. Listen to it at work when you are bored at lunch, in your car, wherever. Just please hit "Play."

The definition of pedophilia is "a psychiatric disorder in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children, generally age 11 years or younger."

Note how I emphasized "attraction." To be a pedophile, you don't have to act on your urges. Just thinking them is enough. Which makes sense. The thing is, though, this attraction can start manifesting in kids as young as 12 or 13. And they have no way to talk about these urges or how to prevent them from taking control of their lives without being considered a threat. Talk to a shrink? You risk being reported to the authorities. The scientific community is so afraid of the stigma attached to even researching pedophilia that it's barely been studied it at all. Which seems like kind of a bad idea if we want to prevent the victimization of more young children.

So a 19-year-old kid, an admitted pedophile who has never acted on his impulses, started an online support group. His mom is helping him find solutions. He needs you to hear this, for the sake of your own kids.

"This American Life" was expecting lots of hate mail for this episode. So far, they've received none. It's a really good look at a really hard issue. So please listen. Also, directly from Ira, "Though there's nothing graphic in this story at all, victims of child sexual abuse should consider this a trigger warning."

[Jessica.]

The one I heard was an Irish man and he was live on the radio, they were talking about the topic and by surprise this guy rang in and gave his side of the story.

[GypsyGoth]

Jack I think your empathy could be better used on anyone other than pedophiles.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by GypsyGoth

Jack I think your empathy could be better used on anyone other than pedophiles.

As usual, I completely agree Gyps.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Jack_

This if nothing else proves that we need to give people like this more support, no wonder so many child sex offences happen when they don't have anyone to talk to about it...

This kinda comes across as justifying these people acting on their urges tbh.

[Samm]

It's a weird topic but I guess it must be hard because you can't talk to anybody about it

[Livia]

So is it the suggestion that it's society's fault that these people can't talk openly about their disgusting urges?

[Ninastar]

Originally Posted by GypsyGoth

Jack I think your empathy could be better used on anyone other than pedophiles.

Thank you for saying this.

[Kyle]

I've always wondered how bad it must be for people to realise they are sexually attracted to young children. I'm sure if they had a choice most would much rather pick a different sexuality.

Fair play to those who go through life without acting on those desires. I try to think about it as being a person that can't act on my heterosexuality. It would be a tough life.

[Josy]

Originally Posted by GypsyGoth

Jack I think your empathy could be better used on anyone other than pedophiles.

Originally Posted by Vicky.

This kinda comes across as justifying these people acting on their urges tbh.

Both of these are exactly my thoughts.

[Jack_]

I take it none of you listened then *sigh*

All of the things you're saying or accusing me of would be to assume that every paedophile acts on their urges (attractions which, by the way, cannot be helped - much like being gay/straight/bi etc you don't choose your sexual attractions - who would choose to be attracted to children?) which just simply isn't true and this is exactly the point of this interview in the first place. It's such a taboo topic, one that inevitably if you raise you're going to be looked down upon for or judged and people involved in it are obviously going to be shunned immediately without even being given a chance to give their side of the story.

I have absolutely no sympathy for people that abuse children, I'm not surprised people have jumped to that conclusion though. But do I have sympathy for people who have to live out their lives knowing they are attracted to people they shouldn't be, knowing they cannot and should not do anything about it because it's illegal and feeling totally disgusted with themselves? Yes, because what kind of life is that to live? It's not a choice they've made, that's just how they are.

And the longer we continue to just forget this subject exists, and the longer we just listen to screams of 'kill them all!!!!' whilst forgetting there are actually people out there with these kind of attractions that are disgusted with themselves and would never even consider abusing a child, the longer some of them are going to end up giving into temptation, and that isn't a good thing for the sake of children.

I'm not blaming society at all, but just ignoring this problem doesn't help matters, most of all the children that'd eventually be involved.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Jack_

I take it none of you listened then *sigh*

All of the things you're saying or accusing me of would be to assume that every paedophile acts on their urges (attractions which, by the way, cannot be helped - much like being gay/straight/bi etc you don't choose your sexual attractions - who would choose to be attracted to children?) which just simply isn't true and this is exactly the point of this interview in the first place. It's such a taboo topic, one that inevitably if you raise you're going to be looked down upon for or judged and people involved in it are obviously going to be shunned immediately without even being given a chance to give their side of the story.

I have absolutely no sympathy for people that abuse children, I'm not surprised people have jumped to that conclusion though. But do I have sympathy for people who have to live out their lives knowing they are attracted to people they shouldn't be, knowing they cannot and should not do anything about it because it's illegal and feeling totally disgusted with themselves? Yes, because what kind of life is that to live? It's not a choice they've made, that's just how they are.

And the longer we continue to just forget this subject exists, and the longer we just listen to screams of 'kill them all!!!!' whilst forgetting there are actually people out there with these kind of attractions that are disgusted with themselves and would never even consider abusing a child, the longer some of them are going to end up giving into temptation, and that isn't a good thing for the sake of children.

I'm not blaming society at all, but just ignoring this problem doesn't help matters, most of all the children that'd eventually be involved.

Well there's no academic or scientific consensus on that, many who have spent their lives in the study and research of this sort of thing would hotly dispute that paedophilia is innate

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Jack_

I take it none of you listened then *sigh*

All of the things you're saying or accusing me of would be to assume that every paedophile acts on their urges (attractions which, by the way, cannot be helped - much like being gay/straight/bi etc you don't choose your sexual attractions - who would choose to be attracted to children?) which just simply isn't true and this is exactly the point of this interview in the first place. It's such a taboo topic, one that inevitably if you raise you're going to be looked down upon for or judged and people involved in it are obviously going to be shunned immediately without even being given a chance to give their side of the story.

I have absolutely no sympathy for people that abuse children, I'm not surprised people have jumped to that conclusion though. But do I have sympathy for people who have to live out their lives knowing they are attracted to people they shouldn't be, knowing they cannot and should not do anything about it because it's illegal and feeling totally disgusted with themselves? Yes, because what kind of life is that to live? It's not a choice they've made, that's just how they are.

And the longer we continue to just forget this subject exists, and the longer we just listen to screams of 'kill them all!!!!' whilst forgetting there are actually people out there with these kind of attractions that are disgusted with themselves and would never even consider abusing a child, the longer some of them are going to end up giving into temptation, and that isn't a good thing for the sake of children.

I'm not blaming society at all, but just ignoring this problem doesn't help matters, most of all the children that'd eventually be involved.

Google 'sex therapy for paedophiles'. There's provision there.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Well there's no academic or scientific consensus on that, many who have spent their lives in the study and research of this sort of thing would hotly dispute that paedophilia is innate

Just because you aren't born like it doesn't mean it's a choice. It's a nature vs nurture debate (one that I have conflicting opinions on myself), but the latter still doesn't make it a choice

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Just because you aren't born like it doesn't mean it's a choice. It's a nature vs nurture debate (one that I have conflicting opinions on myself), but the latter still doesn't make it a choice

No but if it is nurture then it means it can be 'unlearned' which sexuality can't be, and would mean that its better to devote efforts to that than to trying to normalise it

[Marsh.]

Who mentioned normalising it?

Jack is talking about helping them, not justifying their feelings or actions.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by 08marsh

Who mentioned normalising it?

Jack is talking about helping them, not justifying their feelings or actions.

And help is available. I think what Jack's asking for is our understanding.

[Ramsay]

therapist sounds like an absolute bitch

[Marsh.]

To be fair I'd have had a worse reaction than her.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by 08marsh

Who mentioned normalising it?

Jack is talking about helping them, not justifying their feelings or actions.

It's not a great leap from trying to remove the stigma to normalising it, I don't mean normalise it in the sense of making the act socially acceptable (obviously), I mean normalise in accepting it as an innate behaviour and thus something that should be accepted as impossible to change, when that might not necessarily be the case

[Jessica.]

The whole point of this topic is that people like this exist in society whether we like it or not, if it was acceptable for them to get help then they would be less of a danger to society. I firmly believe that nobody can choose who they are attracted to, but obviously anyone can control their actions. I wouldn't praise a paedophile for keeping their hands off kids because it is common knowledge that children can't give consent. The ones who act on their urges are disgusting abominations who don't deserve any forgiveness or respect.

Take this as an example.

(a) An adult man is attracted to women, does that mean he will abuse a woman?
(b) An adult man is attracted to children, does that mean he will abuse a child?

Imagine (a) goes out and abuses a 25 year old woman, does a few years in prison, deals with all of the repercussions and is able to get out and live the rest of his life after ruining the life of that woman whom he abused.

If (b) goes his whole life avoiding children, only going out at night, not socialising, keeping away from his family members, not having any children of his own, essentially never laying a finger on a child, people in this day and age would think of him as more of a threat to society than (a).

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Jessica‪

The whole point of this topic is that people like this exist in society whether we like it or not, if it was acceptable for them to get help then they would be less of a danger to society. I firmly believe that nobody can choose who they are attracted to, but obviously anyone can control their actions. I wouldn't praise a paedophile for keeping their hands off kids because it is common knowledge that children can't give consent. The ones who act on their urges are disgusting abominations who don't deserve any forgiveness or respect.

Take this as an example.

(a) An adult man is attracted to women, does that mean he will abuse a woman?
(b) An adult man is attracted to children, does that mean he will abuse a child?

Imagine (a) goes out and abuses a 25 year old woman, does a few years in prison, deals with all of the repercussions and is able to get out and live the rest of his life after ruining the life of that woman whom he abused.

If (b) goes his whole life avoiding children, only going out at night, not socialising, keeping away from his family members, not having any children of his own, essentially never laying a finger on a child, people in this day and age would think of him as more of a threat to society than (a).

Should it be that hard to control their urges?

For argument's sake let's accept that paedophile's have no control over their attractions, but why should it require that much self control not to carry out what is obviously a disgusting act? If a man sees an attractive woman walking down the street he might feel the urge to sleep with her but that wouldn't mean he has to go to great lengths to stop himself assaulting her. Why would a paedophile's urges be so much more overpowering that he has to lock himself away to stop himself acting on them

[Jessica.]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Should it be that hard to control their urges?

For argument's sake let's accept that paedophile's have no control over their attractions, but why should it require that much self control not to carry out what is obviously a disgusting act? If a man sees an attractive woman walking down the street he might feel the urge to sleep with her but that wouldn't mean he has to go to great lengths to stop himself assaulting her. Why would a paedophile's urges be so much more overpowering that he has to lock himself away to stop himself acting on them

I am not saying it has to be like that for all paedophiles, I was just creating a sheltered example for the sake of the thread to make a point, I didn't say every non-offending paedophile locks themselves away.

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Should it be that hard to control their urges?

For argument's sake let's accept that paedophile's have no control over their attractions, but why should it require that much self control not to carry out what is obviously a disgusting act? If a man sees an attractive woman walking down the street he might feel the urge to sleep with her but that wouldn't mean he has to go to great lengths to stop himself assaulting her. Why would a paedophile's urges be so much more overpowering that he has to lock himself away to stop himself acting on them

I would imagine the overwhelming majority of people in life will have sexual relations with some one or other at points in their life. Most regularly through relationships. Total self seclusion from any form of sexual contact would be a difficult task and for someone that is exclusively attracted to pre-pubescent children that would mean total seclusion from sex altogether.

If someone told me as a teenager I would never have sex with women ever and i would never be able to I really can't imagine how hard that for me that would be.

As abhorrent as pedophilia is I just can't help feel sympathy for those who are struck by it and spend their entire lives resisting whatever urges befall them.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Kyle

I would imagine the overwhelming majority of people in life will have sexual relations with some one or other at points in their life. Most regularly through relationships. Total self seclusion from any form of sexual contact would be a difficult task and for someone that is exclusively attracted to pre-pubescent children that would mean total seclusion from sex altogether.

If someone told me as a teenager I would never have sex with women ever and i would never be able to I really can't imagine how hard that for me that would be.

As abhorrent as pedophilia is I just can't help feel sympathy for those who are struck by it and spend their entire lives resisting whatever urges befall them.

That's true but I still think the act would be so abhorrent that it'd be fairly easy for anyone with a conscience not to act on any urges they have. And though only a tiny minority of people will go through life celibate a lot of people still do it, and those who don't may easily go months, maybe even years without having sex. I don't think it's the knowledge that at some point in the future they will have sex that stops people acting on their urges, it's just that they know there's obviously no justification for doing it without consent