Sexual abuse of a 5 month old baby

[Mystic Mock]

IF criminals were dealt with properly by the system,IF they were given LIFE instead of a few poxy years,people would NOT be calling for the death penalty,but it's all IFS and buts as the system has failed so many children who have been killed or abused,THAT is why those of us who have had to suffer these things first hand feel so passionate about the way murderers are dealt with,you get more for robbing a bank in this country than you do for child murder,that is WRONG.

i didnt know robbers of banks get into more trouble than sick bastards that murder children.

[Angus]

Definitely, but even you yourself are not 100% sure how you'd act, yet you seem to lay it down that that is the only course of action you'd take.

Well I am not able to see into the future (thankfully) and one thing I do know for sure is that we can never be sure of anything, since any random chain of events may or may not result in a specific outcome. I am not stupid enough to believe that I can anticipate every eventuality I may be confronted with at a set moment in future time and categorically state "I will definitely do such and such". I don't know of anyone who would be that confident. I can only say that the probability that I would follow a course of action, if such and such events occurred are pretty clear cut to me, but I would always have to allow for random variables.

[InOne]

I still also don't get what makes jedward intelligent by agreeing with you all and going in to graphic details of how he'd murder people? I noticed he got a random load of praise a few pages a while back when he's hasn't really contributed anything.

[Tom]

True and I agree with that and think that longer sentences need to be utilised more but I can't condone captial punishment or vigilantism. It does nothing for the victims and cheapens us all.

But as I said earlier, the prison system is far too overcrowded (something like 25%) as it is and its not as simple as just setting up a new one. There are a lot of costs involved within a prison infrastructure. What needs to happen is harsher punishments within the existing system.

[MissKittyFantastico]

But as I said earlier, the prison system is far too overcrowded (something like 25%) as it is and its not as simple as just setting up a new one. There are a lot of costs involved within a prison infrastructure. What needs to happen is harsher punishments within the existing system.

Bring back conscription for repeat offenders! That would solve a lot of problems and might actually make them value their lives and freedom, and instill some kind of discipline and respect.

[Kazanne]

Bring back conscription for repeat offenders! That would solve a lot of problems and might actually make them value their lives and freedom, and instill some kind of discipline and respect.

This I agree with,then,let them fight all they want

[Tom]

Bring back conscription for repeat offenders! That would solve a lot of problems and might actually make them value their lives and freedom, and instill some kind of discipline and respect.

Some will see it as a badge of honour though even moreso than prison. I think the problem lies with how prisons are. They have all of their human rights and its very comfortable e.g. TVs in cells.

[MissKittyFantastico]

Some will see it as a badge of honour though even moreso than prison. I think the problem lies with how prisons are. They have all of their human rights and its very comfortable e.g. TVs in cells.

Well they'll certainly get a rougher time of it in the army or whatever than they will in a prison cell that's for sure, plus they will learn discipline and actually be doing something worthwhile instead of sitting on their backsides in a cushy prison cell watching TV and playing computer games (like you say).

[MTVN]

Wow, this thread has gained 15 pages since last night :shocked:

[Angus]

I still also don't get what makes jedward intelligent by agreeing with you all and going in to graphic details of how he'd murder people? I noticed he got a random load of praise a few pages a while back when he's hasn't really contributed anything.

He has posted on several other threads you know, and in any case what on earth is it to do with anyone other than us? Just because you don't agree with it, doesn't mean your opinion is more valid than ours.

[Mystic Mock]

I still also don't get what makes jedward intelligent by agreeing with you all and going in to graphic details of how he'd murder people? I noticed he got a random load of praise a few pages a while back when he's hasn't really contributed anything.

i was but it was just a different opinion to you.

[MTVN]

I still also don't get what makes jedward intelligent by agreeing with you all and going in to graphic details of how he'd murder people? I noticed he got a random load of praise a few pages a while back when he's hasn't really contributed anything.

I've just looked back over a few posts and noticed this as well. Apparently repeatedly posting "i agree" and "i would be a hero for killing ian huntley" make you an incredibly intelligent person with a brilliant "grasp on humanity".

[MTVN]

He has posted on several other threads you know, and in any case what on earth is it to do with anyone other than us? Just because you don't agree with it, doesn't mean your opinion is more valid than ours.

Bit ironic considering you have no time for anyone who disagrees with you, and never seem capable of comprehending an alternative point of view, instead seemingly holding them in contempt and presuming that they knowing of the world.

[InOne]

He has posted on several other threads you know, and in any case what on earth is it to do with anyone other than us? Just because you don't agree with it, doesn't mean your opinion is more valid than ours.

Your opinion is founded on pretty much nothing, so in this case it is.

[Mystic Mock]

I've just looked back over a few posts and noticed this as well. Apparently repeatedly posting "i agree" and "i would be a hero for killing ian huntley" make you an incredibly intelligent person with a brilliant "grasp on humanity".

because i have a different opinion to you dosent mean i aint contributing to the debate.

and why should people care about what happens to pedophiles or serial killers? and im not as bad as them if i killed anyone of them because i am not hurting innocent people.

[Shaun]

I've just looked back over a few posts and noticed this as well. Apparently repeatedly posting "i agree" and "i would be a hero for killing ian huntley" make you an incredibly intelligent person with a brilliant "grasp on humanity".

Not to mention being a parent themselves. Yeah, because all of these chavettes who have one too many WKDs and open their legs are opening their legs to a sense of perspective, not a bit of chav cock.

They totally lack reason and composure. But whatever, let them harp on about what they'd do to this criminal. The fact of the matter is that, if they were to come face to face with such criminals, they'd sheepishly mutter something about how bad they are :tongue:

It's very easy to come across as the authoritarian behind a computer screen ;)

[InOne]

I've just looked back over a few posts and noticed this as well. Apparently repeatedly posting "i agree" and "i would be a hero for killing ian huntley" make you an incredibly intelligent person with a brilliant "grasp on humanity".

Yep, seems an odd way of paronising someone who clearly doesn't have much of a clue and can't really form an opinion. I know it sounds blunt, but it just seemed a bit much to give him all that praise.

[Mystic Mock]

Not to mention being a parent themselves. Yeah, because all of these chavettes who have one too many WKDs and open their legs are opening their legs to a sense of perspective, not a bit of chav cock.

They totally lack reason and composure. But whatever, let them harp on about what they'd do to this criminal. The fact of the matter is that, if they were to come face to face with such criminals, they'd sheepishly mutter something about how bad they are :tongue:

It's very easy to come across as the authoritarian behind a computer screen ;)

and its very easy to come across as a saint on the forum aswell.

and im 14 so i aint got children.:joker:

[Mystic Mock]

Yep, seems an odd way of paronising someone who clearly doesn't have much of a clue and can't really form an opinion. I know it sounds blunt, but it just seemed a bit much to give him all that praise.

but i did form an opinion,just not yours.

[InOne]

but i did form an opinion,just not yours.

Not really, you agreed with a few people, then went on about how you could easily murder a paedophile.

[joeysteele]

well, I ask myself this question - If say my brother was raped and brutally murdered and my mother killed the murderer would I think she was wrong and look at her as a criminal and I would answer No, I would think she was completely justified.

Strong point,and I liked your earlier point as to life being life in Prison then no one would need to worry that particular 'vile' abuser would ever harm a child again.

[MTVN]

Not to mention being a parent themselves. Yeah, because all of these chavettes who have one too many WKDs and open their legs are opening their legs to a sense of perspective, not a bit of chav cock.

They totally lack reason and composure. But whatever, let them harp on about what they'd do to this criminal. The fact of the matter is that, if they were to come face to face with such criminals, they'd sheepishly mutter something about how bad they are :tongue:

It's very easy to come across as the authoritarian behind a computer screen ;)

Yep, I agree. The way that parents are being put on a pedastol above those without children makes no sense. Surely those who are not parents are more able to approach an issue like this with more rationality, without being guided purely by heightened emotions.

[MTVN]

because i have a different opinion to you dosent mean i aint contributing to the debate.

and why should people care about what happens to pedophiles or serial killers? and im not as bad as them if i killed anyone of them because i am not hurting innocent people.

But the point is you didnt really form your own opinion, you just agreed with kazanne and angus, and then because they were glad to see somebody taking their side they heaped a whole load of praise on you.

If somebody murders someone then they are a killer. If you then execute that murderer you too are a killer. And then the only thing to differentiate between the two of you is a misguided and misplaced concept of "justice".

[Mystic Mock]

Not really, you agreed with a few people, then went on about how you could easily murder a paedophile.

well you have got to do something to pedophiles and killers because prisons are getting overfilled with them,so if you dont want them dead chop there hands off so when they do come out they cant commit crimes again,or you kill them so they never can hurt anybody again.

[InOne]

well you have got to do something to pedophiles and killers because prisons are getting overfilled with them,so if you dont want them dead chop there hands off so when they do come out they cant commit crimes again,or you kill them so they never can hurt anybody again.

That is exactly what Kazanne said. And could YOU yourself chop somebodys hands off?

[Mystic Mock]

But the point is you didnt really form your own opinion, you just agreed with kazanne and angus, and then because they were glad to see somebody taking their side they heaped a whole load of praise on you.

If somebody murders someone then they are a killer. If you then execute that murderer you too are a killer. And then the only thing to differentiate between the two of you is a misguided and misplaced concept of "justice".

i agreed with angus58 and kazanne because i also believe that they should be dead so i did form my own opinion.

and what your saying is that soldiers,the police and the secret service are all bad because they murder criminals.

[MTVN]

well you have got to do something to pedophiles and killers because prisons are getting overfilled with them,so if you dont want them dead chop there hands off so when they do come out they cant commit crimes again,or you kill them so they never can hurt anybody again.

So body mutiliation is a legitimate punishment now is it? Christ, imagine what this country would be like if you were in charge :joker:

[Mystic Mock]

That is exactly what Kazanne said. And could YOU yourself chop somebodys hands off?

if it was personal then yeah i would gladly do it,but if it was from a netural perspective then im not sure.

[InOne]

if it was personal then yeah i would gladly do it,but if it was from a netural perspective then im not sure.

Even if it was personal, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't. You'd have to have some kind of disorder yourself to be able to commit such an act and not bat an eyelid.

[Mystic Mock]

So body mutiliation is a legitimate punishment now is it? Christ, imagine what this country would be like if you were in charge :joker:

yeah crime rate would drop because people would be to scared to commit a crime,which would be better than what you would do to the country.

[joeysteele]

Jedward is harmless,he just gets angry as most of us do with crimes like this,the lad would no more hurt anyone than you would,he wasn't hysterical,he just cares about childrens welfare,more than a criminals welfare as some of us do.people use these phrases everyday,most don't carry them through.

Correct again kazanne, I guess if a constructive point cannot be made then its just easier to attack someone who is making constructive points, even if with a bit of stronger passion.
Jedward fever talks loads of sense, he has a wisdom that defies his years,he alsways makes me think when I read his posts,he has the ability to make a point in few words which is something I certainly have not got the ability to do.
By you kazanne, Angus58 and myself he has been rightly praised for his contributions to this debate. Very highly deserved praise too.

One thing I cannot get my head round on this debate are when the arguments of 'understanding' the abuser is made.
Why understand them, what can be understood as to such a filthy 'vile' act against a baby, toddler or any child, how about really trying to understand the fear, the hurt, the trauma of the child while it goes on, and then in cases the poor child loses its life.
Understand that,or try to by all means, show understanding to the abusers, no way.

InOne made a strong point as to finding out from the abuser what makes them put thought into action,that was a strong valid point, and that should be done anyway,however, the punishment for child abuse in my view and clearly many others too, should be the severest penalty possible and its time the law was changed to make that so.

That was I think the whole point of the start of this thread,evryone is entitled to their own opinions but in coming to that opinion,please never forget once this happens some adult or older person who should know right from wrong, has grossly abused a child that likely cannot speak for itself,if we don't then take up the fight for that Child then what does that make us.

[MTVN]

i agreed with angus58 and kazanne because i also believe that they should be dead so i did form my own opinion.

and what your saying is that soldiers,the police and the secret service are all bad because they murder criminals.

The police dont murder criminals only when they're own lives are in immediate danger are they forced to use the last resort of gunfire.

And with soldiers, they're fighting a war, they shoot at the enemy and the enemy shoots at them, but they would not kill someone defenceless.

[Mystic Mock]

Even if it was personal, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't. You'd have to have some kind of disorder yourself to be able to commit such an act and not bat an eyelid.

im sorry but if somebody done something to my family i would kill the bastard no problem.

[Mystic Mock]

The police dont murder criminals only when they're own lives are in immediate danger are they forced to use the last resort of gunfire.

And with soldiers, they're fighting a war, they shoot at the enemy and the enemy shoots at them, but they would not kill someone defenceless.

actually alot of countries have the police carry guns incase the criminal is about to kill someone else.

[MTVN]

yeah crime rate would drop because people would be to scared to commit a crime,which would be better than what you would do to the country.

I doubt it would be that effective as a deterrent, and besides we are human beings, we dont mutilate someone for a crime. We live in a civilised, 21st century society, you seem to want us to be thrust back to the middle ages, I'm sure you would like what they did to criminals back then.

[MTVN]

actually alot of countries have the police carry guns incase the criminal is about to kill someone else.

Yes, it's only a last resort and are only used when someone life is in immediate danger as I said, and when it is the only way to prevent a murder happening before their eyes.

[InOne]

im sorry but if somebody done something to my family i would kill the bastard no problem.

Easy to say on the net.

[Mystic Mock]

I doubt it would be that effective as a deterrent, and besides we are human beings, we dont mutilate someone for a crime. We live in a civilised, 21st century society, you seem to want us to be thrust back to the middle ages, I'm sure you would like what they did to criminals back then.

if you chopped a killers hands off they wont be able to kill anybody again,also if you chopped a pedophiles hands off they wont be able to rape children again.

dont you actually think that would make us a better country if we did chop pedophiles hands off or just killed the ****ers?

[joeysteele]

im sorry but if somebody done something to my family i would kill the bastard no problem.

In truth, if it happened to someone in a family then I have little doubt just about all of the rest of that family would take in thoughts as you stated here,jedward.

There was also a comment before by some as to jedward fevers statements not meaning that he is intelligent, well, I consider him very intelligent but whether he is or isn't in some people's view,one thing is certain you do 'not' need to be intelligent to be 'right' and he is right.

[Kazanne]

i agreed with angus58 and kazanne because i also believe that they should be dead so i did form my own opinion.

and what your saying is that soldiers,the police and the secret service are all bad because they murder criminals.

Wrong,I said what I did about Jedward because that is what i feel about him,it was nothing to do with him 'agreeing with us' as a few people agreed with us not just Jedward,I have known him for a while now,we have always got on but not always agreed,so you see imo,Jedward makes some great points and for his age shows more knowledge than some of the older people on here

[InOne]

if you chopped a killers hands off they wont be able to kill anybody again,also if you chopped a pedophiles hands off they wont be able to rape children again.

dont you actually think that would make us a better country if we did chop pedophiles hands off or just killed the ****ers?

Jesus Christ.

[InOne]

Wrong,I said what I did about Jedward because that is what i feel about him,it was nothing to do with him 'agreeing with us' as a few people agreed with us not just Jedward,I have known him for a while now,we have always got on but not always agreed,so you see imo,Jedward makes some great points and for his age shows more knowledge than some of the older people on here

What knowlegde has he shown?

[Mystic Mock]

What knowlegde has he shown?

that i actually aint trying to continue the mistakes of this stupid soft countries laws.

[InOne]

that i actually aint trying to continue the mistakes of this stupid soft countries laws.

You have not shown that at all. You've shown you can agree with people and that you have a worrying lust for mutilation and murder.

[Mystic Mock]

You have not shown that at all. You've shown you can agree with people and that you have a worrying lust for mutilation and murder.

so i cant agree with people now then?:joker: and im sure im not the only one that believes in murdering the bastards.

[MTVN]

if you chopped a killers hands off they wont be able to kill anybody again,also if you chopped a pedophiles hands off they wont be able to rape children again.

dont you actually think that would make us a better country if we did chop pedophiles hands off or just killed the ****ers?

Christ, what kind of a country would we live in when it's considered acceptable, even moral, to mutliate another human being because he has done wrong!?

You may be entitled to an opinion, but it's a completely vile and abhorrent opinion if you ask me.

[Mystic Mock]

Christ, what kind of a country would we live in when it's considered acceptable, even moral, to mutliate another human being because he has done wrong!?

You may be entitled to an opinion, but it's a completely vile and abhorrent opinion if you ask me.

ok then let the soft laws let them out so they can re offend.

[Kazanne]

ok then let the soft laws let them out so they can re offend.

Don't mess about Jedward,CUT THEIR DICKS OFF!!!!:joker::joker::joker:

[MTVN]

ok then let the soft laws let them out so they can re offend.

Or how about they get given an appropiate sentance, they can serve their time, and while they do that they can be rehabilitated so that they are no longer a threat to society. That's what should happen if you ask me, and they should not be released until they are no longer likely to reoffend.

[Mystic Mock]

Don't mess about Jedward,CUT THEIR DICKS OFF!!!!:joker::joker::joker:

i may aswell not because the lefty brigade will class me as bad as them.:joker:

[Mystic Mock]

Or how about they get given an appropiate sentance, they can serve their time, and while they do that they can be rehabilitated so that they are no longer a threat to society. That's what should happen if you ask me, and they should not be released until they are no longer likely to reoffend.

they should never be released but we know life never means life so i say kill the scum.

[Kazanne]

Or how about they get given an appropiate sentance, they can serve their time, and while they do that they can be rehabilitated so that they are no longer a threat to society. That's what should happen if you ask me, and they should not be released until they are no longer likely to reoffend.

What,you mean like Jon venables was:joker::joker::joker:

[Kazanne]

i may aswell not because the lefty brigade will class me as bad as them.:joker:

Who cares,be yourself,your as good as anyone else,better than some.:wavey:

[MTVN]

What,you mean like Jon venables was:joker::joker::joker:

No, Venables shouldnt have been released as soon as he was because it seems that he had not yet been fully rehabilitated. That was the problem, although you would probably want him killed for something he did when he was 10 years old.

they should never be released but we know life never means life so i say kill the scum.

Life can mean life. Plenty of criminals have spent their lives behind bars, Peter Sutcliffe, for example, will never be freed.

If you thing that the solution to all the crime being committed in this country is simply to "kill the scum" then you need to take a reality check, and take into account the bigger picture.

[joeysteele]

Kepping to the topic.Can InOne or anyone just tell me this, InOne has made some really strong points that I agree fully with late last night and through the night too. So can he or anyone with his thoughts on this just tell me,
How could anyone even a Doctor,be 100% sure that an abuser who had been sent to prison, if he/she was let out, how could it be certain beyond all doubt that no abuse could ever be done again.
If they can tell me how that could be done with 100% surety, then lets hear it, if not then surely at least being locked away for life,whole of their life, has to be the minimum to protect all Children.

[red]

that. is. sick.:eek:

[Mystic Mock]

Kepping to the topic.Can InOne or anyone just tell me this, InOne has made some really strong points that I agree fully with late last night and through the night too. So can he or anyone with his thoughts on this just tell me,
How could anyone even a Doctor,be 100% sure that an abuser who had been sent to prison, if he/she was let out, how could it be certain beyond all doubt that no abuse could ever be done again.
If they can tell me how that could be done with 100% surety, then lets hear it, if not then surely at least being locked away for life,whole of their life, has to be the minimum to protect all Children.

you cant thats why its a waste of time.

[Mystic Mock]

It's a forum, I can post to who I want, where I want, and about what I want. I decided to make it my business, because you were all wrong, do you have a problem with that?

in your opinion we were all wrong like in my opinion and other peoples aswell you and other people on this forum are wrong.

[InOne]

Kepping to the topic.Can InOne or anyone just tell me this, InOne has made some really strong points that I agree fully with late last night and through the night too. So can he or anyone with his thoughts on this just tell me,
How could anyone even a Doctor,be 100% sure that an abuser who had been sent to prison, if he/she was let out, how could it be certain beyond all doubt that no abuse could ever be done again.
If they can tell me how that could be done with 100% surety, then lets hear it, if not then surely at least being locked away for life,whole of their life, has to be the minimum to protect all Children.

If you know the law, they have risk assessments. Also there are certain levels of risk. Which means some offenders will have to be checked on daily or check in to the police. They don't let them roam free when they are released, they are monitored.

[Mystic Mock]

If you know the law, they have risk assessments. Also there are certain levels of risk. Which means some offenders will have to be checked on daily or check in to the police. They don't let them roam free when they are released, they are monitored.

just not monitored good enough.

[InOne]

in your opinion we were all wrong like in my opinion and other peoples aswell you and other people on this forum are wrong.

It's not 'opinion' that it is wrong, the justice system in the UK supports that by not using capital punishment

[Kazanne]

It's a forum, I can post to who I want, where I want, and about what I want. I decided to make it my business, because you were all wrong, do you have a problem with that?

YOU think we are wrong,I don't,Do you remember James Bulger?read that story (The Crime Library one)it is more accurate,you wont get ALL the facts as they were kept away from the press as it was so horrific!!then come back and tell me they should not have been locked up for LIFE.

[Mystic Mock]

It's not 'opinion' that it is wrong, the justice system in the UK supports that by not using capital punishment

because the law says something dosent mean its right.

[Lucy.]

because the law says something dosent mean its right.

:joker: How ironic. Just because Jedward Fever says capital punishment should be used doesn't mean it's right! I think the law has a tad more credibility than a 14 year old don't you think?

[Mystic Mock]

YOU think we are wrong,I don't,Do you remember James Bulger?read that story (The Crime Library one)it is more accurate,you wont get ALL the facts as they were kept away from the press as it was so horrific!!then come back and tell me they should not have been locked up for LIFE.

i know it sounds harsh because they were 10 at the time but i think they should have been killed aswell,because if sick stuff like killing people is entering there head and then going through with it, what are they gonna be like when they get older? well you know what jon venables has turned into.

[Angus]

Kazanne, Angus and Jedward, it's clear you have run out of things to say. You're really clutching at straws and making it seem you are more detached from reality than I first thought. Your arguments have been floored so you result to arselicking eachother, or claim we arselick. Also the fact Angus has to invent the idea I have 'cronies'. When she has been proved wrong. Me and my 'cronies' will go elsewhere, we're done here. :wink:


Good riddance!:wavey: Typical Y.M.S, arrogant idiots who can't handle women with any opinions of their own.

[joeysteele]

Thank you InOne but it doesn't work,risk assessment is discredited,I asked for 100% certainty it couldn't happen again,but do you believe risk assessment is 100% foolproof.

By the way,I am studying law so I may know a little bit.I already know enough to know risk assessment is discredited left,right and centre.

[MTVN]

i know it sounds harsh because they were 10 at the time but i think they should have been killed aswell,because if sick stuff like killing people is entering there head and then going through with it, what are they gonna be like when they get older? well you know what jon venables has turned into.

You clearly dont have a clue about crime and murder and what drives people to it.

People arent just born murderers, they dont just have a desire to kill that sticks with them for the rest of their lives.

How about we kill you? You're 14 but if killing people is coming into your head now, what are you gonna be like when you're older?

[MissKittyFantastico]

Is there really any need to get personal and bring 'forum politics' into this?

Opinion is obviously split down the middle on this subject, understandably so perhaps when you consider what an emotive subject we're talking about, but I don't see why it has to descend into name calling and petty arguing. That will just get the thread closed, which would be a shame because it's been a really interesting debate imo.

[M X]

Just sick, ****ing sick.

[Mystic Mock]

You clearly dont have a clue about crime and murder and what drives people to it.

People arent just born murderers, they dont just have a desire to kill that sticks with them for the rest of their lives.

How about we kill you? You're 14 but if killing people is coming into your head now, what are you gonna be like when you're older?

yeah i aint saying killing 2 year olds am i? and i never said they were born murderers so get that out of your head.

[joeysteele]

The fact is I think I can safely say this,the law has failed many victims of abuse, if ever there comes a referendum in this country for capital punishment to be brought back for certain crimes, then I dare bet all I have that the vote for yes, would be in excess of 75% easily, and that sexual abuses of children would be one of the crimes the people would want it back for.

[MTVN]

yeah i aint saying killing 2 year olds am i? and i never said they were born murderers so get that out of your head.

No, but you're still advocating killing someone.

You didnt say they were born murderers but if you dont think that then why do you think they killed Bulger? Do you think the desire to kill just suddenly popped into their head one day and it will never go away so they should just be hung?

[Mystic Mock]

The fact is I think I can safely say this,the law has failed many victims of abuse, if ever there comes a referendum in this country for capital punishment to be brought back for certain crimes, then I dare bet all I have that the vote for yes, would be in excess of 75% easily, and that sexual abuses of children would be one of the crimes the people would want it back for.

i agree.

[Mystic Mock]

No, but you're still advocating killing someone.

You didnt say they were born murderers but if you dont think that then why do you think they killed Bulger? Do you think the desire to kill just suddenly popped into their head one day and it will never go away so they should just be hung?

no they obviously had a bad childhood but still they are never gonna change when they kill 2 year olds imo.

[Beastie]

Is there really any need to get personal and bring 'forum politics' into this?

Opinion is obviously split down the middle on this subject, understandably so perhaps when you consider what an emotive subject we're talking about, but I don't see why it has to descend into name calling and petty arguing. That will just get the thread closed, which would be a shame because it's been a really interesting debate imo.

This. Come on guys. Calm down. Take a deep breath. Say your opinion. Agree to disagree. There is no right or wrong.

[Mystic Mock]

This. Come on guys. Calm down. Take a deep breath. Say your opinion. Agree to disagree. There is no right or wrong.

according to inone there is.

[InOne]

Okaaaaaaaay.... just carry on then :rolleyes:

I am being good :tongue: I know what you mean, don't want it to get locked either. But I think most have said what they needed to say and it's going round in circles, I'll admit I'm bad for biting though :bawling:

[MTVN]

no they obviously had a bad childhood but still they are never gonna change when they kill 2 year olds imo.

Well John Venables may be back in prison (not for murder though) but Robert Thompson has been free for 10 years and not killed anyone since. People do change from when they were 10.

[Kazanne]

You clearly dont have a clue about crime and murder and what drives people to it.

People arent just born murderers, they dont just have a desire to kill that sticks with them for the rest of their lives.

How about we kill you? You're 14 but if killing people is coming into your head now, what are you gonna be like when you're older?


Would you like a clue?
Thompson and Venables were torturing animals for a while before they killed James,the crime was premeditated and planned,Thompson had the sort of upbringing lots of kids have,an errant dad,mother an alcoholic,Venables on the other hand was in a two parent family and NOT the product of a dysfunctional family,I wanted them dead,but I had my reasons,in hindsight,they should have done 8 years where they did,then gone to a big boys prison and served life,what they did to James was barbaric,I wont go into detail,but I defy anyone to read his story and come out with a dry eye!!!And I will admit,that if I heard of their demise in anyway,I would give a silent cheer!so call me what you like,I really don't care.

[InOne]

Well John Venables may be back in prison (not for murder though) but Robert Thompson has been free for 10 years and not killed anyone since. People do change from when they were 10.

Mary Bell also.

[MissKittyFantastico]

no they obviously had a bad childhood but still they are never gonna change when they kill 2 year olds imo.

Actually I believe Venables came from a perfectly good background, and well we know what's happened with him. Thompson was the one with the unstable childhood and rehabiliation seems to have worked with him. Background very often has absolutely nothing to do with it in a lot of cases.

[Kazanne]

Actually I believe Venables came from a perfectly good background, and well we know what's happened with him. Thompson was the one with the unstable childhood and rehabiliation seems to have worked with him. Background very often has absolutely nothing to do with it in a lot of cases.

Yes Jon had a good background.

[Mystic Mock]

Well John Venables may be back in prison (not for murder though) but Robert Thompson has been free for 10 years and not killed anyone since. People do change from when they were 10.

as far as we are aware robert thompson hasnt killed anyone,but i still think his got it in him.

[Niamh.]

tone it down a bit or I'll have to close the thread

[MTVN]

Mary Bell also.

Yeah, thats true, forgot about her.

Would you like a clue?
Thompson and Venables were torturing animals for a while before they killed James,the crime was premeditated and planned,Thompson had the sort of upbringing lots of kids have,an errant dad,mother an alcoholic,Venables on the other hand was in a two parent family and NOT the product of a dysfunctional family,I wanted them dead,but I had my reasons,in hindsight,they should have done 8 years where they did,then gone to a big boys prison and served life,what they did to James was barbaric,I wont go into detail,but I defy anyone to read his story and come out with a dry eye!!!And I will admit,that if I heard of their demise in anyway,I would give a silent cheer!so call me what you like,I really don't care.

No, Venables parents were seperated.

I dont dispute the barbarity of their actions but you cant kill someone for what they did as a 10 year old. Venables may not have had the worst upbringing but he did supposedly show genuine remorse for his actions, and the mindset of a ten year old will not be the mindset he has for life. When someone commits a crime at that age, it is easily possible to reform them.

[Kazanne]

as far as we are aware robert thompson hasnt killed anyone,but i still think his got it in him.

Have they ever apologized to Denise and Ralph,NO they haven't,One of them even has a child!!!!

[MissKittyFantastico]

Would you like a clue?
Thompson and Venables were torturing animals for a while before they killed James,the crime was premeditated and planned,Thompson had the sort of upbringing lots of kids have,an errant dad,mother an alcoholic,Venables on the other hand was in a two parent family and NOT the product of a dysfunctional family,I wanted them dead,but I had my reasons,in hindsight,they should have done 8 years where they did,then gone to a big boys prison and served life,what they did to James was barbaric,I wont go into detail,but I defy anyone to read his story and come out with a dry eye!!!And I will admit,that if I heard of their demise in anyway,I would give a silent cheer!so call me what you like,I really don't care.

Yes that's what I thought, Venables had a very 'normal' upbringing and it was Thompson that had the harder time.

It just goes to show though that some people CAN be rehabilitated, especially if you catch them young enough. It seems that perhaps Thompson was a product of his upbringing but having his freedom taken away and the rehab he recieved have changed him as an adult, surely that is a good thing and shows that the system can work in some cases? I'm in no way condoning what he did, it was a horrible awful sickening thing, but if someone can be 'fixed' and they can go on to contribute to society surely that is better than just killing in the name of killing and not actually attempting to understand and fix these problems?

[Kazanne]

Yeah, thats true, forgot about her.



No, Venables parents were seperated.

I dont dispute the barbarity of their actions but you cant kill someone for what they did as a 10 year old. Venables may not have had the worst upbringing but he did supposedly show genuine remorse for his actions, and the mindset of a ten year old will not be the mindset he has for life. When someone commits a crime at that age, it is easily possible to reform them.

They knew exactly what they were doing,I will not be drawn into this as it's upsetting,but no one will persuade me that they didn't know what they were doing.:nono::nono:They killed for their own pleasure,simple as.

[Jack_]

Have they ever apologized to Denise and Ralph,NO they haven't,One of them even has a child!!!!

Err...surprise, surprise...maybe that's because they're not allowed to reveal their identities?

And if one of them has a child and hasn't murdered anyone since then maybe it just goes to show they have changed and the system does sometimes work, eh?

[Mystic Mock]

Have they ever apologized to Denise and Ralph,NO they haven't,One of them even has a child!!!!

well im scared for that child.

[MTVN]

They knew exactly what they were doing,I will not be drawn into this as it's upsetting,but no one will persuade me that they didn't know what they were doing.:nono::nono:They killed for their own pleasure,simple as.

When did I say they didn't? I'm just saying that Venables is reported to have shown genuine remorse, and that reform is possible, that's all.

[Kazanne]

Err...surprise, surprise...maybe that's because they're not allowed to reveal their identities?

And if one of them has a child and hasn't murdered anyone since then maybe it just goes to show they have changed and the system does sometimes work, eh?

Oh hear comes Mr know it all,you have it all wrong,but never mind,you usually do.:sleep::sleep::sleep::sleep:i suppose we are now in for a night of jacks 'theories':sleep::sleep:

[Kazanne]

When did I say they didn't? I'm just saying that Venables is reported to have shown genuine remorse, and that reform is possible, that's all.

of course he said he was remorseful,lol,they were both clever little sods. he is in prison for child pornography!wonder if he is 'sorry' for that

[Kazanne]

Err...surprise, surprise...maybe that's because they're not allowed to reveal their identities?

And if one of them has a child and hasn't murdered anyone since then maybe it just goes to show they have changed and the system does sometimes work, eh?

Their identities ARE known to some.

[Jack_]

Oh hear comes Mr know it all,you have it all wrong,but never mind,you usually do.:sleep::sleep::sleep::sleep:i suppose we are now in for a night of jacks 'theories':sleep::sleep:

ROFL, what the **** are you on, love? 'Mr Know it all'. Grow up. While the second part of my post was an opinion, the first is fact...how are they supposed to apologise when they are also supposed to keep their identities a secret? Come on, use your brain.

[Tom4784]

Calm down people, anymore insults or snide comments will be infracted.

[Jack_]

Their identities ARE known to some.

Well obviously [talk about stating the obvious]...someone had to give them their new identities. But very few people. Only really the ones 'in the know', not thousands :sleep:

[Kazanne]

ROFL, what the **** are you on, love? 'Mr Know it all'. Grow up. While the second part of my post was an opinion, the first is fact...how are they supposed to apologise when they are also supposed to keep their identities a secret? Come on, use your brain.

Their identities ARE known to some,and in any case have you never heard of video links?

[MTVN]

of course he said he was remorseful,lol,they were both clever little sods. he is in prison for child pornography!wonder if he is 'sorry' for that

Saying you're remorseful and showing that you're remorseful are two different things. I'm not going by what he said I'm going by the professional opinions of the experts who studied him afterwards. And they really weren't clever at all.

[MTVN]

Any contact with Bulger's parents breaches the terms of their release :nono:

[Kazanne]

Well obviously [talk about stating the obvious]...someone had to give them their new identities. But very few people. Only really the ones 'in the know', not thousands :sleep:

I think you should stop right there,i know a lot more than you think,so please drop it,we know your opinions anyway.

[Jack_]

Their identities ARE known to some,and in any case have you never heard of video links?

Yes...but do you really think the parents would keep quiet about what they look like? No, no I don't.

[InOne]

Didn't the mother apprently see one of the killers once? She was tipped off, but when she finally saw him she was so consumed with rage she just stood there shaking.

[Kazanne]

Yes...but do you really think the parents would keep quiet about what they look like? No, no I don't.

All I will say on this is that Denise knows what they look like,i am saying nothing else on this case.

[Jack_]

Any contact with Bulger's parents breaches the terms of their release :nono:

Exactly.

i know a lot more than you think

Oh what, are you pen pals with them or something? You haven't seen them and neither have many others. If they had their identities would've been leaked to the press and public already, don't you think?

[Kazanne]

Didn't the mother apprently see one of the killers once? She was tipped off, but when she finally saw him she was so consumed with rage she just stood there shaking.

Yes.

[Niamh.]

Saying you're remorseful and showing that you're remorseful are two different things. I'm not going by what he said I'm going by the professional opinions of the experts who studied him afterwards. And they really weren't clever at all.

the problem with rehabilitation as I previously said is that the only way of finding out if it's worked is by sending paedophiles/murderers back into society again and I'm sorry but if I had to make a choice on giving someone a second chance or fully protecting innocent children than I would choose the latter and never send a paedophile/murderer back into society ever again.

[Jack_]

Didn't the mother apprently see one of the killers once? She was tipped off, but when she finally saw him she was so consumed with rage she just stood there shaking.

All I will say on this is that Denise knows what they look like,i am saying nothing else on this case.

Okay, fair enough, I admit I didn't know this. So I apologise :)

[joeysteele]

the problem with rehabilitation as I previously said is that the only way of finding out if it's worked is by sending paedophiles/murderers back into society again and I'm sorry but if I had to make a choice on giving someone a second chance or fully protecting innocent children than I would choose the latter and never send a paedophile/murderer back into society ever again.

Excellent post, it says it all really, there is no 100% guarantee it wouldn't happen again so as you say totally correctly life should mean life for those caught.

[Angus]

Why have certain posts vanished? Censorship or what?

[MTVN]

the problem with rehabilitation as I previously said is that the only way of finding out if it's worked is by sending paedophiles/murderers back into society again and I'm sorry but if I had to make a choice on giving someone a second chance or fully protecting innocent children than I would choose the latter and never send a paedophile/murderer back into society ever again.

But surely if all the evidence points to them having reformed, it is the right thing to do to give them a second chance, I think that should be a fundamental right. Padeophillia is a grey area because it is far more engrained in the human mind, but a murder can be done in a rush of blood or something like that. Reformation has shown to be sucessful in the past, and with the added deterrent of retribution from serving their time, it is the best and the most fair policy imo.

[Kazanne]

Why have certain posts vanished? Censorship or what?

LOL,note Angus the insults to me are still there:joker::joker::joker:such a fair place this TIBB,but at least they left mine on too:joker::joker::joker:

[InOne]

So folks, 25 pages of madness. What have we learnt?

[Niamh.]

But surely if all the evidence points to them having reformed, it is the right thing to do to give them a second chance, I think that should be a fundamental right. Padeophillia is a grey area because it is far more engrained in the human mind, but a murder can be done in a rush of blood or something like that. Reformation has shown to be sucessful in the past, and with the added deterrent of retribution from serving their time, it is the best and the most fair policy imo.

Not imo no, a second chance for a criminal is not worth risking mine or anyone elses innocent child. I would prioritise and the innocent would be my priority.

[Angus]

LOL,note Angus the insults to me are still there:joker::joker::joker:such a fair place this TIBB,but at least they left mine on too:joker::joker::joker:

Lol, seriously though I had a mini emergency this end so had to leave the debate. When I got back posts exchanged between me and a certain FM had disappeared! Smacks to me of protecting their own.

[Mystic Mock]

Lol, seriously though I had a mini emergency this end so had to leave the debate. When I got back posts exchanged between me and a certain FM had disappeared! Smacks to me of protecting their own.

i think so aswell.

[MissKittyFantastico]

What is all this 'protecting their own' stuff?

[InOne]

Angus and Jedward stick to the topic, this is no time for conspiracy theories :nono:

[Lucy.]

Whose posts have been deleted?

[Mystic Mock]

Angus and Jedward stick to the topic, this is no time for conspiracy theories :nono:

ok but all i can say is,is that how can anybody care about pedophiles and killers unless you knew them personally?

[InOne]

ok but all i can say is,is that how can anybody care about pedophiles and killers unless you knew them personally?

Who said I care about them? And you obviously care seen as you've posted so much about it.

[Mystic Mock]

Who said I care about them? And you obviously care seen as you've posted so much about it.

well you seem to care that people want the scumbags dead,and yes i care because i want the ****ers dead.

[InOne]

well you seem to care that people want the scumbags dead,and yes i care because i want the ****ers dead.

Good for you.

[MissKittyFantastico]

ok but all i can say is,is that how can anybody care about pedophiles and killers unless you knew them personally?

I don't 'care' about them, but in a lot of cases there is some form of mental illness involved, in fact paedophilia IS an illness, an incurable one at this moment in time, which is why I said they don't CHOOSE to go out and abuse children, it's a compulsion and while yes they deserve to be locked up and the key thrown away until some form of cure can be found (if it can be), I don't agree that they should be sentenced to death for what is an illness that they can't help acting on. More needs to be spent on learning about it and as the only surefire way of protecting children is to have them locked up then yes life should mean life as there is no known form of rehabilitation for their condition as yet.

[Mystic Mock]

I don't 'care' about them, but in a lot of cases there is some form of mental illness involved, in fact paedophilia IS an illness, an incurable one at this moment in time, which is why I said they don't CHOOSE to go out and abuse children, it's a compulsion and while yes they deserve to be locked up and the key thrown away until some form of cure can be found (if it can be), I don't agree that they should be sentenced to death for what is an illness that they can't help acting on. More needs to be spent on learning about it and as the only surefire way of protecting children is to have them locked up then yes life should mean life as there is no known form of rehabilitation for their condition as yet.

but not all pedophiles are mentally insane as some know what there doing.

[MissKittyFantastico]

but not all pedophiles are mentally insane as some know what there doing.

And you know this how? If someone is classed as a paedophile by the clincal definition then I'm sorry but they CAN'T help it and they don't see anything wrong with what they are doing, hence why it's called a mental illness, they don't know right from wrong and are compelled to do what they do.

[Angus]

Would you feel the same if the shoe was on the other foot and it was your child that could be executed though? You can't really discount the parent's feelings since they'd feel the same grief as you, possible more due to the fact their child commited the crime.

Well perhaps they should have done a better job bringing their child up properly in the first place. The propensity to become a murderer, rapist, paedophile etc., must have been evident at some point during their upbringing and the parents have either ignored it or worse, been instrumental by virtue of their inadequate parenting, in fostering it.

[InOne]

Well perhaps they should have done a better job bringing their child up properly in the first place. The propensity to become a murderer, rapist, paedophile etc., must have been evident at some point during their upbringing and the parents have either ignored it or worse, been instrumental by virtue of their inadequate parenting, in fostering it.

Upbringing has nothing to do with it. People from good families become killers, Paedos rapists. The whole 'it's because they had a bad upbringing' thing is a myth.

[Niamh.]

Upbringing has nothing to do with it. People from good families become killers, Paedos rapists. The whole 'it's because they had a bad upbringing' thing is a myth.

I would say in alot of cases it has something to do with it, not all but alot

[Mystic Mock]

Upbringing has nothing to do with it. People from good families become killers, Paedos rapists. The whole 'it's because they had a bad upbringing' thing is a myth.

but then your saying there pure evil because they must have at least had 1 thing bad in the childhood.

[InOne]

I would say in alot of cases it has something to do with it, not all but alot

Indeed, but that is when it becomes harder to catch a Paedophile, when you assume they'll be some creepy looking guy hanging out at schools.

[joeysteele]

jedward,you have won the real argument with your firm stance and reasoned laying out of you opinion. your points are not invalidated by you getting any personal insults from areas that offer no constructive detailed argument as to facts.
I asked on here if anyone could say to me that 100% if an abuser was released from prison after all these risk assessments etc that they believed there was not a sinlge chance of them abusing again, I got veiled response and no 100% guranteee.


Niamhxo pointed out that he/she would never give a second chance to paedophiles or killers in order to protect innocent children so he/she would never let them out of prison. That is a right statement and right thing to do becasue there are no guarantees possible and the risk is too great to take to let them rejoin society.

With some exceptions that would be the Nations view, the UK population is clamouring for capital punishment to be brought back, especially for child harmers and killers.

You jedward are in the majority of opinion, it may not seem that way on here, but you are so know that and let all else just wash over you because little of the criticism levelled at you has any base or relevance whatsoever.

Pople who abuse,and sexually abuse children are the scum of the earth, they lose in my view any right at all to be part of any society after committing such vile crimes against Children.
I find it incredible that any would think otherwise to that, but if they do then they must have their reasons whatever they may be,even though understanding those reasons will be far beyond me I'm afraid.

[InOne]

but then your saying there pure evil because they must have at least had 1 thing bad in the childhood.

Pure evil people do exist.

[MissKittyFantastico]

Well perhaps they should have done a better job bringing their child up properly in the first place. The propensity to become a murderer, rapist, paedophile etc., must have been evident at some point during their upbringing and the parents have either ignored it or worse, been instrumental by virtue of their inadequate parenting, in fostering it.

Sorry but I don't agree with that at all. Not all rapists, murderers etc show signs of having any issues at all growing up, and it's harsh to pin the blame on the parents, when any number of things that happen later on in life could have sparked them off. That brings in the whole nature v nuture debate as well, and experts are very split on that subject. Are people born evil or are they a product of their environment?

[Niamh.]

Indeed, but that is when it becomes harder to catch a Paedophile, when you assume they'll be some creepy looking guy hanging out at schools.

no I mean I wouldn't assume that they look like anything

[InOne]

jedward,you have won the real argument with your firm stance and reasoned laying out of you opinion. your points are not invalidated by you getting any personal insults from areas that offer no constructive detailed argument as to facts.I asked on here if anyone could say to me that 100% if an abuser was released from prison after all these risk assessments etc that they believed there was not a sinlge chance of them abusing again, I got veiled response and no 100% guranteee.


Niamhxo pointed out that he/she would never give a second chance to paedophiles or killers in order to protect innocent children so he/she would never let them out of prison. That is a right statement and right thing to do becasue there are no guarantees possible and the risk is too great to take to let them rejoin society.

With some exceptions that would be the Nations view, the UK population is clamouring for capital punishment to be brought back, especially for child harmers and killers.

You jedward are in the majority of opinion, it may not seem that way on here, but you are so know that and let all else just wash over you because little of the criticism levelled at you has no base or relevance whatsoever.

Pople who abuse,and sexually abuse children are the scum of the earth, they lose in my view any right at all to be part of any society after committing such vile crimes against Children.
I find it incredible that any would think otherwise to that, but if they do then they must have their reasons whatever they may be,even though understanding those reasons will be far beyond me I'm afraid.

Are you actually serious? :/

[Iceman]

Well perhaps they should have done a better job bringing their child up properly in the first place. The propensity to become a murderer, rapist, paedophile etc., must have been evident at some point during their upbringing and the parents have either ignored it or worse, been instrumental by virtue of their inadequate parenting, in fostering it.

Thats a stupid statement to make really, not everybodies upbringing sets them out for the way they will be later on in life, some yes but not all....

[InOne]

no I mean I wouldn't assume that they look like anything

Yes but you were assuming a type of personality as well

[MTVN]

jedward,you have won the real argument with your firm stance and reasoned laying out of you opinion. your points are not invalidated by you getting any personal insults from areas that offer no constructive detailed argument as to facts.
I asked on here if anyone could say to me that 100% if an abuser was released from prison after all these risk assessments etc that they believed there was not a sinlge chance of them abusing again, I got veiled response and no 100% guranteee.


Niamhxo pointed out that he/she would never give a second chance to paedophiles or killers in order to protect innocent children so he/she would never let them out of prison. That is a right statement and right thing to do becasue there are no guarantees possible and the risk is too great to take to let them rejoin society.

With some exceptions that would be the Nations view, the UK population is clamouring for capital punishment to be brought back, especially for child harmers and killers.

You jedward are in the majority of opinion, it may not seem that way on here, but you are so know that and let all else just wash over you because little of the criticism levelled at you has no base or relevance whatsoever.

Pople who abuse,and sexually abuse children are the scum of the earth, they lose in my view any right at all to be part of any society after committing such vile crimes against Children.
I find it incredible that any would think otherwise to that, but if they do then they must have their reasons whatever they may be,even though understanding those reasons will be far beyond me I'm afraid.

Umm No, the majority of the population do not believe in mutilation as a punishment, and most do not believe in the death penalty.

[Angus]

And you know this how? If someone is classed as a paedophile by the clincal definition then I'm sorry but they CAN'T help it and they don't see anything wrong with what they are doing, hence why it's called a mental illness, they don't know right from wrong and are compelled to do what they do.

If they are mentally ill and see nothing wrong in what they are doing, then they would carry on without attempting to hide their perversions. However, most are extremely clever at leading double lives and hiding the evidence which suggests to me that they know fine well that what they are doing is a crime.

[Mystic Mock]

Umm No, the majority of the population do not believe in mutilation as a punishment, and most do not believe in the death penalty.

actually when they did a servey a few years back,over 85% wanted the death penalty brought back, so it sounds like im in the majority dont you think?

[Tom4784]

Well perhaps they should have done a better job bringing their child up properly in the first place. The propensity to become a murderer, rapist, paedophile etc., must have been evident at some point during their upbringing and the parents have either ignored it or worse, been instrumental by virtue of their inadequate parenting, in fostering it.

More often then not it's not the parents fault, how would you feel if your children did something wrong and placed the blame at your door? Sometimes it is poor parenting but you can have a perfect set of parents and that doesn't mean the kid will do no wrong.

[joeysteele]

Umm No, the majority of the population do not believe in mutilation as a punishment, and most do not believe in the death penalty.

I think you would find that in a referendum to bring back capital punishment for certain crimes, child murder and sexual abuse 2 of them that you would find the UK voting at 'least' 75% in favour.
Its why govts won't hold one, becasue no party wants to be the one in govt to bring it back but if the public had the chnace they would vote massively for it for certain crimes.

[MissKittyFantastico]

If they are mentally ill and see nothing wrong in what they are doing, then they would carry on without attempting to hide their perversions. However, most are extremely clever at leading double lives and hiding the evidence which suggests to me that they know fine well that what they are doing is a crime.

But it is a psychiatric disorder, and one that isn't even fully understood as yet. Some of them feel intense shame about what they are doing but like I said they are compelled to act on their feelings, others yes know what they are doing is wrong but still feel compelled to act on their feelings, they can't help it. Hence why it's called a mental illness.

[joeysteele]

I am 100% serious InOne.

[InOne]

If they are mentally ill and see nothing wrong in what they are doing, then they would carry on without attempting to hide their perversions. However, most are extremely clever at leading double lives and hiding the evidence which suggests to me that they know fine well that what they are doing is a crime.

I'm sure they don't wake up one day and decide to be a paedophile. It builts up over a number of years. They slowly slowly tip further towards the edge. I think what would be good would be to find out what tips some over the edge. And why some go all the way and why some don't. We can then maybe find ways to stop them from taking the final step. Even if it saves just one kids life, worth a shot isn't it?

[Mystic Mock]

I'm sure they don't wake up one day and decide to be a paedophile. It builts up over a number of years. They slowly slowly tip further towards the edge. I think what would be good would be to find out what tips some over the edge. And why some go all the way and why some don't. We can then maybe find ways to stop them from taking the final step. Even if it saves just one kids life, worth a shot isn't it?

no because we should save more than 1 childs life and actually teach the pedophiles a lesson.

[Angus]

Thats a stupid statement to make really, not everybodies upbringing sets them out for the way they will be later on in life, some yes but not all....

Yet again it's okay for some to put others down with dismissive statements when they have nothing else to bring to the table themselves.

There are always signs of some sort in a budding psychopath and a good parent would surely notice signs of unusual behaviour and get the appropriate help for their child. A bad parent might actually be the reason why their child is a psychopath. Then into the mix there has to be considered the possibility of inherited mental illnesses, again which would surely have been picked up by a good parent.

That aside, it's staggering really that hypothetically the parents of a murdered child, according to some on this thread, are supposed to be considerate of the feelings of the parents of the scum that killed their child. They are also supposed to meekly accept the pathetic sentences handed down, as well as be filled with understanding and compassion for the killer who might well have inflicted the most unimaginable pain and terror on their child.

[Niamh.]

Yes but you were assuming a type of personality as well

when was I? I never mentioned anything about anyones personality

[Kazanne]

Angus this is one hell of a thread you have created.lol

[MTVN]

actually when they did a servey a few years back,over 85% wanted the death penalty brought back, so it sounds like im in the majority dont you think?

Well, there's no definitive answer, in 2006, the majority were against it - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1506834/Less-than-50pc-back-death-penalty.html

But anyway, nobody really supports it in the way you do. You want the death penalty for sex abuse, you want the death penalty for 10 year olds, you wanted the death penalty for a couple who taped a kid to the wall ffs.

And lets not mention your support for mutilating people.

You are not in the majority, and if people like you ever are, then thats when we know our country is well and truly ****ed up.

[joeysteele]

I'm sure they don't wake up one day and decide to be a paedophile. It builts up over a number of years. They slowly slowly tip further towards the edge. I think what would be good would be to find out what tips some over the edge. And why some go all the way and why some don't. We can then maybe find ways to stop them from taking the final step. Even if it saves just one kids life, worth a shot isn't it?

Exactly, no one would argue with you making this point. I have said that all day, I have agreed with lots of your points too, this is a good one. I would say this should be done anyway but still the minimum punishment should be put away for life.
I have no difficulty agreeing totally with your comments above. These were the points you made last night,I agreed with you then as did many others.

[InOne]

when was I? I never mentioned anything about anyones personality

I meant background, sorry.

[Kazanne]

Yet again it's okay for some to put others down with dismissive statements when they have nothing else to bring to the table themselves.

There are always signs of some sort in a budding psychopath and a good parent would surely notice signs of unusual behaviour and get the appropriate help for their child. A bad parent might actually be the reason why their child is a psychopath. Then into the mix there has to be considered the possibility of inherited mental illnesses, again which would surely have been picked up by a good parent.

That aside, it's staggering really that hypothetically the parents of a murdered child, according to some on this thread, are supposed to be considerate of the feelings of the parents of the scum that killed their child. They are also supposed to meekly accept the pathetic sentences handed down, as well as be filled with understanding and compassion for the killer who might well have inflicted the most unimaginable pain and terror on their child.

Spot on,Angus

[MissKittyFantastico]

Yet again it's okay for some to put others down with dismissive statements when they have nothing else to bring to the table themselves.

There are always signs of some sort in a budding psychopath and a good parent would surely notice signs of unusual behaviour and get the appropriate help for their child. A bad parent might actually be the reason why their child is a psychopath. Then into the mix there has to be considered the possibility of inherited mental illnesses, again which would surely have been picked up by a good parent.

That aside, it's staggering really that hypothetically the parents of a murdered child, according to some on this thread, are supposed to be considerate of the feelings of the parents of the scum that killed their child. They are also supposed to meekly accept the pathetic sentences handed down, as well as be filled with understanding and compassion for the killer who might well have inflicted the most unimaginable pain and terror on their child.

I think some of these signs can be misdiagnosed though by doctors as things such as ADHD and the like, so you can't really blame the parent for that if they take the kid to the doctors when they see signs and the doctor doesn't correctly diagnose. Also a lot of mental illnesses show very similar early warning signs, you hear stories of people being diagnosed as bipolar when in fact they are displaying psycopathic tendencies, so once again it's really the system that's at fault and not so much the parents. Not in all cases mind you, but the mental health sector in this country is so criminally underfunded and staffed that these things slip through the net time and time again and then it's too late.

And once again noone here is saying that parents should sit by and accept the shoddy justice system in this country, in fact if you did a poll right now I would expect most people on here to agree that murderers, paedophiles and the like should be locked up and the key thrown away. I personally just don't believe that an eye for an eye solves anything.

[Niamh.]

I meant background, sorry.

yeah, I do believe that in alot of cases that background would have alot to do with it. Like abused kids later becoming the abuser. Like I said not always I know

[Mystic Mock]

Well, there's no definitive answer, in 2006, the majority were against it - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1506834/Less-than-50pc-back-death-penalty.html

But anyway, nobody really supports it in the way you do. You want the death penalty for sex abuse, you want the death penalty for 10 year olds, you wanted the death penalty for a couple who taped a kid to the wall ffs.

And lets not mention your support for mutilating people.

You are not in the majority, and if people like you ever are, then thats when we know our country is well and truly ****ed up.

the toddler taped to the wall was gonna die if they werent found so yeah the bastards should have died.

and the 10 year olds that brutally killed an innocent 2 year old do deserve to die.

[joeysteele]

Well, there's no definitive answer, in 2006, the majority were against it - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1506834/Less-than-50pc-back-death-penalty.html

But anyway, nobody really supports it in the way you do. You want the death penalty for sex abuse, you want the death penalty for 10 year olds, you wanted the death penalty for a couple who taped a kid to the wall ffs.

And lets not mention your support for mutilating people.

You are not in the majority, and if people like you ever are, then thats when we know our country is well and truly ****ed up.

Jedward advocated chopping hands off. Most people I know as to sexual abusing children would want more than just hands chopped off the abuser if they had their way.

[Angus]

I'm sure they don't wake up one day and decide to be a paedophile. It builts up over a number of years. They slowly slowly tip further towards the edge. I think what would be good would be to find out what tips some over the edge. And why some go all the way and why some don't. We can then maybe find ways to stop them from taking the final step. Even if it saves just one kids life, worth a shot isn't it?

Of course intervention in early life is crucial, which is where the parents come in. A good parent would surely be aware of any unusual behaviour or habits in a child they are with 24/7, and it would be reasonable to expect them to get their child some help. A bad parent, be it through abuse or neglect, is going to perpetuate the cycle and that is where schools, doctors etc should be on the ball about reporting their suspicions and getting the appropriate authorities involved. There are already some documented classic signs in childhood that point towards a future psychopathic personality; such as torturing and killing animals; being a loner; being a bully etc.

[Iceman]

Yet again it's okay for some to put others down with dismissive statements when they have nothing else to bring to the table themselves.

There are always signs of some sort in a budding psychopath and a good parent would surely notice signs of unusual behaviour and get the appropriate help for their child. A bad parent might actually be the reason why their child is a psychopath. Then into the mix there has to be considered the possibility of inherited mental illnesses, again which would surely have been picked up by a good parent.

That aside, it's staggering really that hypothetically the parents of a murdered child, according to some on this thread, are supposed to be considerate of the feelings of the parents of the scum that killed their child. They are also supposed to meekly accept the pathetic sentences handed down, as well as be filled with understanding and compassion for the killer who might well have inflicted the most unimaginable pain and terror on their child.

So my opinion is invalid because you deem Im bringing nothing to the table? There is never always some sort of sign of a budding psycopath thats a ridiculous thing to say aswell, if that were the case there would be no people like that out there.

[Mystic Mock]

Jedward advocated chopping hands off. Most people I know as to sexual abusing children would want more than just hands chopped off the abuser if they had their way.

really?

[MTVN]

Jedward advocated chopping hands off. Most people I know as to sexual abusing children would want more than just hands chopped off the abuser if they had their way.

Cutting of someones hand is mutiliation, thats a completely inhumane and vile thing to do, and nobody in their right mind would implement such a policy.

the toddler taped to the wall was gonna die if they werent found so yeah the bastards should have died.

and the 10 year olds that brutally killed an innocent 2 year old do deserve to die.

What are you talking about, read the article again. They did it because they though it would be funny when they were high. They got caught when she showed someone the pictures, they hadnt taped him there to die.

And they were 10 years old ffs :bored:

Far from your views being the majority and intelligent, as some have said, I'd say they were rather worrying myself.

[InOne]

Of course intervention in early life is crucial, which is where the parents come in. A good parent would surely be aware of any unusual behaviour or habits in a child they are with 24/7, and it would be reasonable to expect them to get their child some help. A bad parent, be it through abuse or neglect, is going to perpetuate the cycle and that is where schools, doctors etc should be on the ball about reporting their suspicions and getting the appropriate authorities involved. There are already some documented classic signs in childhood that point towards a future psychopathic personality; such as torturing and killing animals; being a loner; being a bully etc.

Indeed, but how many parents are going to be looking out for signs of Psychopathy? I mean, it's not something they expect and most probably don't know what these signs are, maybe put it down to "being young". And the torturing and killing of animals is in usually quite extreme cases. The build up is often quite subtle, and then they are far too gone when they realise what their child really is or has become

[Mystic Mock]

Cutting of someones hand is mutiliation, thats a completely inhumane and vile thing to do, and nobody in their right mind would implement such a policy.



What are you talking about, read the article again. They did it because they though it would be funny when they were high. They got caught when she showed someone the pictures, they hadnt taped him there to die.

And they were 10 years old ffs :bored:

Far from your views being the majority and intelligent, as some have said, I'd say they were rather worrying myself.

you talk about me having a sick mind when you think that a toddler being taped to a wall because the bastards was high as funny.

[MTVN]

you talk about me having a sick mind when you think that a toddler being taped to a wall because the bastards was high as funny.

Umm no I don't, read properly: "They thought it was funny", I didnt find it funny, they did. I was making the point that their intention was never to kill the child.

Not that that would stop you killing them. You really do seem to like the idea of being the decisive authority over who lives and dies.

[Angus]

Upbringing has nothing to do with it. People from good families become killers, Paedos rapists. The whole 'it's because they had a bad upbringing' thing is a myth.

Yet another sweeping statement with nothing to back it up, delivered with such an air of pseudo authority that it might just impress some, but certainly not me.

If you want to debate a point at least give a counter argument, not just "it's a myth". You talk about people from "good families" without actually defining what that means. Kids brought up in ostensibly "good" families offend, so perhaps those "good" families need to be examined more closely.

[MissKittyFantastico]

Yet another sweeping statement with nothing to back it up, delivered with such an air of pseudo authority that it might just impress some, but certainly not me.

If you want to debate a point at least give a counter argument, not just "it's a myth". You talk about people from "good families" without actually defining what that means. Kids brought up in ostensibly "good" families offend, so perhaps those "good" families need to be examined more closely.

Like I said before it's the whole nature v nuture argument, something I am actually learning about at the moment. Some say that people are born evil, or that mental illness is in the genes, others argue that it's during childhood where ALL behaviours are learnt, there really isnt any conclusive proof either way which is why the debate continues to rage on about it, so noone is right or wrong.

[InOne]

Yet another sweeping statement with nothing to back it up, delivered with such an air of pseudo authority that it might just impress some, but certainly not me.

If you want to debate a point at least give a counter argument, not just "it's a myth". You talk about people from "good families" without actually defining what that means. Kids brought up in ostensibly "good" families offend, so perhaps those "good" families need to be examined more closely.

Infact you'll find that the fact they all come from bad backgrounds is a sweeping statement in itself. I do know what I'm talking about actually. I think you're just trying to nit pick. Can you back up the opposite? Nope, didn't think so.

[Niamh.]

Like I said before it's the whole nature v nuture argument, something I am actually learning about at the moment. Some say that people are born evil, or that mental illness is in the genes, others argue that it's during childhood where ALL behaviours are learnt, there really isnt any conclusive proof either way which is why the debate continues to rage on about it, so noone is right or wrong.

I would say it's a bit of both but more so nurture, just my opinion though

[Angus]

Indeed, but how many parents are going to be looking out for signs of Psychopathy? I mean, it's not something they expect and most probably don't know what these signs are, maybe put it down to "being young". And the torturing and killing of animals is in usually quite extreme cases. The build up is often quite subtle, and then they are far too gone when they realise what their child really is or has become

I never said they should be looking out for pyschopathic tendencies, but they should be concerned, for example, if their child doesn't want to mix with other children, or takes delight in tormenting the cat, or is bullying kids at school for example. Usually it will be a number of small things that add up to a major concern. It is generally accepted now that some, not all, children who were abused, grow up to abuse children themselves thereby perpetuating the cycle.

As for parents being unaware of what their children are becoming till its too late - I don't buy that. If you are involved in your children's lives day in, day out, you would have to be a pretty rubbish parent not to spot any signs of aberration until it was beyond the point of no return.

[MissKittyFantastico]

I would say it's a bit of both but more so nurture, just my opinion though

I personally think it's a bit of both also, I do actually believe that some people are born with an evil seed in them (I know that sounds like a cliche but it's the only way I can explain it lol) and then if they are brought into a certain environment where there is no parental discipline and strict guidelines, the seed grows and grows until they begin to act on it. But on the other hand, perfectly 'normal' well adjusted seeming children can fall into the wrong crowd, have parents that give them no guidance or are bad role models, and they can end up turning into monsters, hence why I said the argument for both sides is inconclusive. But you do get cases where a child has a loving family, no childhood trauma, does well in school, and then goes on to commit hideous crimes, this is why it's so hard to pinpoint where it all starts and what the solution is.

[InOne]

I never said they should be looking out for pyschopathic tendencies, but they should be concerned, for example, if their child doesn't want to mix with other childrens, or takes delight in tormenting the cat, or is bullying kids at school for example. Usually it will be a number of small things that add up to a major concern. It is generally accepted now that some, not all, children who were abused, grow up to abuse children themselves thereby perpetuating the cycle.

As for parents being unaware of what their children are becoming till its too late - I don't buy that. If you are involved in your children's lives day in, day out, you would have to be a pretty rubbish parent not to spot any signs of aberration until it was beyond the point of no return.

Obviously they should be concerned in cases like that. But as I said, the build up is often subtle.

Well, it happens. As you know, Psychopaths are particularly good liars, and they develop that early. So parents may not as detect wrong doings and they're not with the child 24/7. And I think sometimes they might be subconsciously aware but to an extent block it out. Like, "No my child couldn't possibly have done that" it probably would be a nice thing for a parent to see. They may think it's a phase, or they're grow out of it. Parents are learing too, as I said they probably don't know the signs, or think they can help the child themselves. Doesn't make them bad parents.

[Angus]

Infact you'll find that the fact they all come from bad backgrounds is a sweeping statement in itself. I do know what I'm talking about actually. I think you're just trying to nit pick. Can you back up the opposite? Nope, didn't think so.

There you go again - I never said that all psychopaths come from "bad" families either. There are plenty of kids who have had the most terrible upbringings who grow up to be absolutely fine human beings, so there must be other factors in play, which is why I asked for your definition of a "good" family. A lot of people define a good family as consisting of a mother and father from a financially stable background, steady jobs, good schools, good education etc. But what about the day to day family dynamics, life experiences,divorced parents, sibling rivalries, traumas, bereavements etc, etc, all factors which can over-ride the apparently good influences?

And what of children brought up in the care system - what studies have been done to asses the percentage of those children who grow up to offend.

[InOne]

There you go again - I never said that all psychopaths come from "bad" families either. There are plenty of kids who have had the most terrible upbringings who grow up to be absolutely fine human beings, so there must be other factors in play, which is why I asked for your definition of a "good" family. A lot of people define a good family as consisting of a mother and father from a financially stable background, steady jobs, good schools, good education etc. But what about the day to day family dynamics, life experiences,divorced parents, sibling rivalries, traumas, bereavements etc, etc, all factors which can over-ride the apparently good influences?

And what of children brought up in the care system - what studies have been done to asses the percentage of those children who grow up to offend.

I meant a "good family" as in someone who is not constantly physically or psychologically aboused. Obviously there will be stresses at times, but that is part of growing up.

And I don't know? I wasn't aware that was a problem.

[Mystic Mock]

Umm no I don't, read properly: "They thought it was funny", I didnt find it funny, they did. I was making the point that their intention was never to kill the child.

Not that that would stop you killing them. You really do seem to like the idea of being the decisive authority over who lives and dies.

by the way your reacting your excusing there reckless behaviour that could have killed the child.

and im saying who i should think should die and that is pedophiles and serial killers.

[Angus]

I meant a "good family" as in someone who is not constantly physically or psychologically aboused. Obviously there will be stresses at times, but that is part of growing up.

And I don't know? I wasn't aware that was a problem.



Sure, there are stresses in all families, but individuals do react in very different ways so I can see it would be extremely difficult to isolate a single factor that would tip the balance from merely eccentric behaviour to full blown psychosis.

I am interested in those kids who are brought up in care homes, since they have obviously not experienced "parenting" in the conventional sense, and it would be interesting to know whether there is a higher or lower percentage of paedophiles etc whose early years, or indeed whole childhood, was spent in care.

[Mystic Mock]

Sure, there are stresses in all families, but individuals do react in very different ways so I can see it would be extremely difficult to isolate a single factor that would tip the balance from merely eccentric behaviour to full blown psychosis.

I am interested in those kids who are brought up in care homes, since they have obviously not experienced "parenting" in the conventional sense, and it would be interesting to know whether there is a higher or lower percentage of paedophiles etc whose early years, or indeed whole childhood, was spent in care.

i think at least 70% would have had a bad childhood in one way or another.

[InOne]

Sure, there are stresses in all families, but individuals do react in very different ways so I can see it would be extremely difficult to isolate a single factor that would tip the balance from merely eccentric behaviour to full blown psychosis.

I am interested in those kids who are brought up in care homes, since they have obviously not experienced "parenting" in the conventional sense, and it would be interesting to know whether there is a higher or lower percentage of paedophiles etc whose early years, or indeed whole childhood, was spent in care.

Did 'Without Conscience' come yet?

[Angus]

Angus this is one hell of a thread you have created.lol

Yes, it's kind of taken on a life of its own, which goes to show that it is a hugely emotive and important issue to a lot of people. I'm glad it is being debated and taken seriously, whether I agree with some of the posts or not.

[Mystic Mock]

Yes, it's kind of taken on a life of its own, which goes to show that it is a hugely emotive and important issue to a lot of people. I'm glad it is being debated and taken seriously, whether I agree with some of the posts or not.

im glad about it to.

[Angus]

Did 'Without Conscience' come yet?

It has, but I'm the sort of person who once I pick up a book I need to finish it, and as yet I haven't found the time to sit down and get stuck in. It might help if I could tear myself away from this forum!

[InOne]

It has, but I'm the sort of person who once I pick up a book I need to finish it, and as yet I haven't found the time to sit down and get stuck in. It might help if I could tear myself away from this forum!

Ah yes, it's one you won't put down. Well log off and get reading then :tongue:

[Kazanne]

Cutting of someones hand is mutiliation, thats a completely inhumane and vile thing to do, and nobody in their right mind would implement such a policy.



What are you talking about, read the article again. They did it because they though it would be funny when they were high. They got caught when she showed someone the pictures, they hadnt taped him there to die.

And they were 10 years old ffs :bored:

Far from your views being the majority and intelligent, as some have said, I'd say they were rather worrying myself.

and James Bulger was 3 weeks shy of his THIRD birthday FFS.

[Mystic Mock]

and James Bulger was 3 weeks shy of his THIRD birthday FFS.

this.

[Angus]

Ah yes, it's one you won't put down. Well log off and get reading then :tongue:

Lol, I will soon seeing as how I was on here till nearly 5 this morning!

[MTVN]

by the way your reacting your excusing there reckless behaviour that could have killed the child.

and im saying who i should think should die and that is pedophiles and serial killers.

No, I'm making the point that killing them would be a completely disproportionate punishment relating to the crime.

and James Bulger was 3 weeks shy of his THIRD birthday FFS.

I don't see what point you are trying to make here.

Let me get one thing straight, what the two boys did to Bulger was absolutely despicable, abhorrent and disgusting, it's awful what they did to him and I am in no way trying to condone, justify or excuse Venables' and Thompson's behaviour.

But at the end of the day they were 10 years old. At that age they are young, susceptible, naive and not fully aware of the severity of their actions, even though they might have know they were wrong. The mindset they had back then is not the same as it is now, when they are adults who have gone through a process of rehabilitation, which admittedly may not have been completely effective with Venables. To hang someone for what they did when they were 10 would be completely unjust imo.

[joeysteele]

and James Bulger was 3 weeks shy of his THIRD birthday FFS.

I am amazed how anyone can overlook that fact kazanne,also jedward you are near spot on, In one of our lectures the indicative statistics for abusers having had a 'bad' or troubled past is 6.7 out of 10. Near spot on your 70%

The troubled and bad past should not however be in any way an excuse to sexually or otherwise abuse Children or murder them.
It can be a reason but never a justification in any way to try to negate the abuse.

[MTVN]

Yes, it's kind of taken on a life of its own, which goes to show that it is a hugely emotive and important issue to a lot of people. I'm glad it is being debated and taken seriously, whether I agree with some of the posts or not.

There's something I can agree with you on :p

[joeysteele]

I think we all could likely agree with that, I think this has been the best thread I have ever come across.

[Mystic Mock]

I am amazed how anyone can overlook that fact kazanne,also jedward you are near spot on, In one of our lectures the indicative statistics for abusers having had a 'bad' or troubled past is 6.7 out of 10. Near spot on your 70%

The troubled and bad past should not however be in any way an excuse to sexually or otherwise abuse Children or murder them.
It can be a reason but never a justification in any way to try to negate the abuse.

i agree that theres no excuse for killing or raping someone.

[Mystic Mock]

bump.

[MTVN]

bump.

:laugh2:

[Mystic Mock]

:laugh2:

whats so funny about bump?

[MTVN]

whats so funny about bump?

I just found it funny that the thread was being bumped after only twenty minutes of inactivity.

[Kazanne]

No, I'm making the point that killing them would be a completely disproportionate punishment relating to the crime.



I don't see what point you are trying to make here.

Let me get one thing straight, what the two boys did to Bulger was absolutely despicable, abhorrent and disgusting, it's awful what they did to him and I am in no way trying to condone, justify or excuse Venables' and Thompson's behaviour.

But at the end of the day they were 10 years old. At that age they are young, susceptible, naive and not fully aware of the severity of their actions, even though they might have know they were wrong. The mindset they had back then is not the same as it is now, when they are adults who have gone through a process of rehabilitation, which admittedly may not have been completely effective with Venables. To hang someone for what they did when they were 10 would be completely unjust imo.

His name is James,NOT Bulger at least have a bit of respect .

[Kazanne]

No, I'm making the point that killing them would be a completely disproportionate punishment relating to the crime.



I don't see what point you are trying to make here.

Let me get one thing straight, what the two boys did to Bulger was absolutely despicable, abhorrent and disgusting, it's awful what they did to him and I am in no way trying to condone, justify or excuse Venables' and Thompson's behaviour.

But at the end of the day they were 10 years old. At that age they are young, susceptible, naive and not fully aware of the severity of their actions, even though they might have know they were wrong. The mindset they had back then is not the same as it is now, when they are adults who have gone through a process of rehabilitation, which admittedly may not have been completely effective with Venables. To hang someone for what they did when they were 10 would be completely unjust imo.

Such good rehabilitation one is back where he belongs for child porn charges!no wonder people get angry over this.If people weren't so lazy and did their jobs properly then we would not need to be calling for the death penalty as people would be satiated by a life in prison sentence!

[Kazanne]

I just found it funny that the thread was being bumped after only twenty minutes of inactivity.

You seem more intersested in taking 'pops' at Jedward fever than the real subject here.

[MTVN]

His name is James,NOT Bulger at least have a bit of respect .

I always refer to people who I dont know by their surname, I'm not on first names terms with him, I dont know him personally so I wont pretend to do so by calling them "James".

Such good rehabilitation one is back where he belongs for child porn charges!no wonder people get angry over this.If people weren't so lazy and did their jobs properly then we would not need to be calling for the death penalty as people would be satiated by a life in prison sentence!

Well, he was obviously not rehabilitated fully so shouldnt have been released yet, but at least he hasnt killed again and Robert Thompson has kept out of trouble.

You seem more intersested in taking 'pops' at Jedward fever than the real subject here.

I wasnt taking a pop, I thought he was making a joke by bumping it, I genuinely didnt realise it was serious.

[Mystic Mock]

His name is James,NOT Bulger at least have a bit of respect .

i dont mean to bring back some tough times kazanne but i want to show how bad them bastards was.

they skipped 3 police stations where they could have easily dropped him off until his parents found him,am i right in saying this kazanne that after killing james bulger they then put him on a railway track where the train ran him over?

[Enid]

Haha I read this article then saw the pic of nasty Nick in your sig... if only...

Yeah sick.

dreamindemon is full of this sort of stuff.

[Kazanne]

i dont mean to bring back some tough times kazanne but i want to show how bad them bastards was.

they skipped 3 police stations where they could have easily dropped him off until his parents found him,am i right in saying this kazanne that after killing james bulger they then put him on a railway track where the train ran him over?

Yes,a lady stopped and asked what was wrong with him as he was upset and had a mark on his forehead,they told her he was their little brother(how crafty was that)another lady was going to take him to the police station herself(Oh if only)but her friend did not want to hold her dog while she went as she was scared of it,ironically enough James was killed not very far away from a police station!!!and yes they laid him across a railway line and covered his head with bricks!!!he was run over by a train and i dont want to go into details but there were TWO scenes of crime.

[Lee.]

Yes,a lady stopped and asked what was wrong with him as he was upset and had a mark on his forehead,they told her he was their little brother(how crafty was that)another lady was going to take him to the police station herself(Oh if only)but her friend did not want to hold her dog while she went as she was scared of it,ironically enough James was killed not very far away from a police station!!!and yes they laid him across a railway line and covered his head with bricks!!!he was run over by a train and i dont want to go into details but there were TWO scenes of crime.

Good god. I can't read that. It makes me cry

[Kazanne]

Good god. I can't read that. It makes me cry

This is the best and most accurate link I can find on the net,for those who want to read it.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/young/bulger/1.html

[Lee.]

This is the best and most accurate link I can find on the net,for those who want to read it.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/young/bulger/1.html

I honestly don't think I can.. I've got my 3 year old boy sitting playing here just now and even just reading what you wrote in your last post was very upsetting. I can't imagine what it must be like for the family :(

[Mystic Mock]

and yet people think scum like jon venables and robert thompson deserved to live.

[Kazanne]

I honestly don't think I can.. I've got my 3 year old boy sitting playing here just now and even just reading what you wrote in your last post was very upsetting. I can't imagine what it must be like for the family :(

I understand that,that is why I posted the link,it helps me as people can now make up their own minds without me posting it.

[Niamh.]

Yes,a lady stopped and asked what was wrong with him as he was upset and had a mark on his forehead,they told her he was their little brother(how crafty was that)another lady was going to take him to the police station herself(Oh if only)but her friend did not want to hold her dog while she went as she was scared of it,ironically enough James was killed not very far away from a police station!!!and yes they laid him across a railway line and covered his head with bricks!!!he was run over by a train and i dont want to go into details but there were TWO scenes of crime.

oh my God Kazanne, that is just awful. I bet those two women must think about and regret that every single day of their lives.

[Lee.]

I understand that,that is why I posted the link,it helps me as people can now make up their own minds without me posting it.

:hug:

[Angus]

This is the best and most accurate link I can find on the net,for those who want to read it.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/young/bulger/1.html

Kazanne, my youngest son was around the same age as James at the time, and I remember weeping for days when they finally found him.

If I remember right those two pieces of scum had tried to abduct a little girl a bit earlier from the same shopping centre but were unsuccessful? It was quite obviously a premeditated kidnapping, and they deliberately targetted a little lad too young to be able to tell any inquisitive passersby what they were doing. Furthermore, didn't the psychologists try to mitigate the seriousness of what they did by saying that they were merely re-enacting a scene from Child's Play and were unaware of the harm they were actually doing? -what utter BS. Those children were 10 years old and knew full well the pain, torture and misery they intended to inflict on that poor little boy.

[HBB1508]

I understand that,that is why I posted the link,it helps me as people can now make up their own minds without me posting it.

I've read as much as I can and the memories came back - I can't believe those two scumbags are still walking this earth and being protected - it leaves me speechless.

[InOne]

It's awful what happened to Bulger but we could get angry about many old cases. We need to look at ways of protecting the children, and make adults and children themselves be more aware.

[Kazanne]

oh my God Kazanne, that is just awful. I bet those two women must think about and regret that every single day of their lives.

Niam,38 people COULD have helped save James that day,but didn't want to 'interfere' ,from lorry drivers to passers by,they are called The Liverpool 38,one woman even saw them and James in distress and unbelievably "Drew her curtains"a lorry driver saw them give him a "persuading" kick and NO ONE did anything.

[Mystic Mock]

This is the best and most accurate link I can find on the net,for those who want to read it.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/young/bulger/1.html

i could only read the 1st page as it is very disturbing,and especially 10 year olds doing it.

[Kazanne]

Kazanne, my youngest son was around the same age as James at the time, and I remember weeping for days when they found finally him.

If I remember right those two pieces of scum had tried to abduct a little girl a bit earlier from the same shopping centre but were unsuccessful? It was quite obviously a premeditated kidnapping, and they deliberately targetted a little lad too young to be able to tell any inquisitive passersby what they were doing. Furthermore, didn't the psychologists try to mitigate the seriousness of what they did by saying that they were merely re-enacting a scene from Child's Play and were unaware of the harm they were actually doing? -what utter BS. Those children were 10 years old and knew full well the pain, torture and misery they intended to inflict on that poor little boy.

They tried to abduct a girl and another little boy but the mother saw them,they did TRY to blame Childs Play,of course it is BS ,they have to blame something, that film is nothing like what happened.Angus,They knew it was wrong hence the long trek to a secluded space.James first scream would have told them it was wrong and the way they tried to hide it,and people say they didn't know it was wrong,of course they did.They were also found to be sound in mind and body!!!!

[Mystic Mock]

They tried to abduct a girl and another little boy but the mother saw them,they did TRY to blame Childs Play,of course it is BS ,they have to blame something, that film is nothing like what happened.Angus,They knew it was wrong hence the long trek to a secluded space.James first scream would have told them it was wrong and the way they tried to hide it,and people say they didn't know it was wrong,of course they did.They were also found to be sound in mind and body!!!!

yeah it was probably adults that find all children innocent.

[Lee.]

Do you know what? life in jail AND lethal injection would be two good for those evil ****ers. They deserved to have been tortured and beaten every day all day for the rest of their lives!

[Mystic Mock]

Do you know what? life in jail AND lethal injection would be two good for those evil ****ers. They deserved to have been tortured and beaten every day all day for the rest of their lives!

:thumbs:

[joeysteele]

Yes,a lady stopped and asked what was wrong with him as he was upset and had a mark on his forehead,they told her he was their little brother(how crafty was that)another lady was going to take him to the police station herself(Oh if only)but her friend did not want to hold her dog while she went as she was scared of it,ironically enough James was killed not very far away from a police station!!!and yes they laid him across a railway line and covered his head with bricks!!!he was run over by a train and i dont want to go into details but there were TWO scenes of crime.

Thank you kazanne for reminding us what children are up against here and not just sometimes from adults either.
This is a heartbreaking detail of a truly rotten crime, it was detailed in response to jedward fever,who asked in the most mature and sensitive way if he was right in his recollection of what he had read as to this crime.

All some can do is take shots at jedward fever,because they have nothing constructive to ask,say or even have any ideas how to prevent these crimes at all.
Jedward fever shows insight, understanding and very deep thinking as to this topic, as we all should do really.
In fact he has been a great example all through as far I am concerned and he has made me think many times my own position as to punishments for these wicked crimes against children.

As to this post from kazanne, who has very strong feelings and interest in justice, real justice to be brought in for these crimes, I have to commend her on this post which should remind any decent people of the horrors children can be up against from others and also this passage from her is in my opinion the very best and conclusive demonstration of fact as to why for these crimes capital punishment should be the norm.

[InOne]

Thank you kazanne for reminding us what children are up against here and not just sometimes from adults either.
This is a heartbreaking detail of a truly rotten crime, it was detailed in response to jedward fever,who asked in the most mature and sensitive way if he was right in his recollection of what he had read as to this crime.

All some can do is take shots at jedward fever,because they have nothing constructive to ask,say or even have any ideas how to prevent these crimes at all.
Jedward fever shows insight, understanding and very deep thinking as to this topic, as we all should do really.
In fact he has been a great example all through as far I am concerned and he has made me think many times my own position as to punishments for these wicked crimes against children.

As to this post from kazanne, who has very strong feelings and interest in justice, real justice to be brought in for these crimes, I have to commend her on this post which should remind any decent people of the horrors children can be up against from others and also this passage from her is in my opinion the very best and conclusive demonstration of fact as to why for these crimes capital punishment should be the norm.

What is it with you and Jedward Fever? Do you know eachother or something?

[joeysteele]

Not at all, not that it has anything to do with you or anyone else.

I enjoy his posts, they are relevant, he doesn't just attack others for no reason, most of what he says I agree with and therefore he saves me a lot of time by my being able to agree with him.

I doubt there is any law in expressing agreement with someone on important matters,I do so with Kazanne, Angus58 and I have also done so with you many times too.

It is nice to be more community like and not only agree with others, but also to express that agreement,just maybe one day you may decide to try it too.

[BB_Eye]

Kazanne, my youngest son was around the same age as James at the time, and I remember weeping for days when they found finally him.

If I remember right those two pieces of scum had tried to abduct a little girl a bit earlier from the same shopping centre but were unsuccessful? It was quite obviously a premeditated kidnapping, and they deliberately targetted a little lad too young to be able to tell any inquisitive passersby what they were doing. Furthermore, didn't the psychologists try to mitigate the seriousness of what they did by saying that they were merely re-enacting a scene from Child's Play and were unaware of the harm they were actually doing? -what utter BS. Those children were 10 years old and knew full well the pain, torture and misery they intended to inflict on that poor little boy.
What sorts of psychologists were they? I thought that was just conjecture from the gutter press and politicians. It always seemed weird to me. The press wanted to have their cake and eat it. To have Venables held fully responsible for his own actions and for him to do time in an adult prison, but it also wanted to blame dumb horror/slasher movies and the way they influenced poor impressionable children, taking no account of the sort of fundamental parental neglect that leads somebody to act in such a way. The equivalent to blaming the Columbine Massacre on first-person shooter games.

Ironic then that the press may inadvertantly have gotten Venables a lighter sentence.

[Josy]

Thank you kazanne for reminding us what children are up against here and not just sometimes from adults either.
This is a heartbreaking detail of a truly rotten crime, it was detailed in response to jedward fever,who asked in the most mature and sensitive way if he was right in his recollection of what he had read as to this crime.

All some can do is take shots at jedward fever,because they have nothing constructive to ask,say or even have any ideas how to prevent these crimes at all.
Jedward fever shows insight, understanding and very deep thinking as to this topic, as we all should do really.
In fact he has been a great example all through as far I am concerned and he has made me think many times my own position as to punishments for these wicked crimes against children.

As to this post from kazanne, who has very strong feelings and interest in justice, real justice to be brought in for these crimes, I have to commend her on this post which should remind any decent people of the horrors children can be up against from others and also this passage from her is in my opinion the very best and conclusive demonstration of fact as to why for these crimes capital punishment should be the norm.

Repeatedly saying he agrees with other peoples posts, using foul language and describing how he would like to cut the hands off or murder the "b******s" is hardly constructive.

[Angus]

What sorts of psychologists were they? I thought that was just conjecture from the gutter press and politicians. It always seemed weird to me. The press wanted to have their cake and eat it. To have Venables held fully responsible for his own actions and for him to do time in an adult prison, but it also wanted to blame dumb horror/slasher movies and the way they influenced poor impressionable children, taking no account of the sort of fundamental parental neglect that leads somebody to act in such a way. The equivalent to blaming the Columbine Massacre on first-person shooter games.

Ironic then that the press may inadvertantly have gotten Venables a lighter sentence.

Well that is why I have queried whether those were the facts or not. Kazanne has the greatest knowledge on this issue because of her personal involvement with the family; I am trying to recall the details nearly 20 years later.

And yes, you are right, parental neglect is a massive influence on delinquent children. If the "Child's Play" story is true, then what on earth were these parents doing allowing ten year olds to watch an x rated movie? It's about time the parents of delinquent children were prosecuted for their failure to bring up their children properly, because society pays the price later on.

[Tom]

Niam,38 people COULD have helped save James that day,but didn't want to 'interfere' ,from lorry drivers to passers by,they are called The Liverpool 38,one woman even saw them and James in distress and unbelievably "Drew her curtains"a lorry driver saw them give him a "persuading" kick and NO ONE did anything.

You can say its unbelievable that a woman drew her curtains but you can't say you wouldn't do the same in that situation. You'd like to think you wouldn't but a lot of people diminish responsibility and expect someone else to do it. Its a strange psychological concept and has been proven time and time again, most notably with Kitty Genovese who was murdered graphically in full view public and all the residents could do was pull their sofas up to the window to get a better view whilst sat down, NOT phone the police or an ambulance! There are loads of follow up studies to see how bystanders react and they all lead to pretty much the same conclusion.

[joeysteele]

Repeatedly saying he agrees with other peoples posts, using foul language and describing how he would like to cut the hands off or murder the "b******s" is hardly constructive.

Are you saying that if I say I agree with him that because I say that I should be questioned as to whether I know him or not, what has that to do with the topic?

I can't see where there any laws against agreeing with people. Also I am not the only one to commend him,I take into account his age and also hearing some comments from othhers on here, he is far more easy to agree with than many.
He has strong views, most of the people I know and have around me are saying very much what he says.even stronger too.
I am afraid I don't get your point, I have not had any communications with you and I answered a personal question from InOne anyway.
I don't get your point.Sorry. However it seems simply that you do not agree with him and I do agree with him, and what on earth is wrong with either of those positions?

[InOne]

I just don't see any logic in what you're saying joey. It astounds me.

[Kazanne]

Do you know what? life in jail AND lethal injection would be two good for those evil ****ers. They deserved to have been tortured and beaten every day all day for the rest of their lives!

I have got digitally enhanced photos of those two of how they might look like now,and sometimes I am VERY tempted to post them,but it wouldn't be fair on anyone looking remotely like them,but as i said it IS tempting.

[joeysteele]

I just don't see any logic in what you're saying joey. It astounds me.

I answered your question,not because I had to but choose to, however, this thread started by Angus58, is a very important one with strong emotions on all sides of the debate.
It is not a place however for me to deal with personal questions to me,or respond to unfair attacks on me or general attacks as to what or whom I agree with.
If you have anything to say to me then please pm me,I will not be drawn into belittling this important thread,having to justify myself to anyone and I really don't see why I should have to anyway InOne.
Feel free to contact me via pm if you wish to say any more to me please.

[joeysteele]

I have got digitally enhanced photos of those two of how they might look like now,and sometimes I am VERY tempted to post them,but it wouldn't be fair on anyone looking remotely like them,but as i said it IS tempting.

It is clear this is a case very close to your heart kazanne, I believe,am I right that a paper wanted to do something like that a few years back but were stopped or advise at least not to by the Home office.

[Niamh.]

Niam,38 people COULD have helped save James that day,but didn't want to 'interfere' ,from lorry drivers to passers by,they are called The Liverpool 38,one woman even saw them and James in distress and unbelievably "Drew her curtains"a lorry driver saw them give him a "persuading" kick and NO ONE did anything.

oh fgs:shocked: that is just terrible, I never knew any of that. jesus that had to be one of the most upsetting cases I've seen in my lifetime

[Angus]

I answered your question,not because I had to but choose to, however, this thread started by Angus58, is a very important one with strong emotions on all sides of the debate.
It is not a place however for me to deal with personal questions to me,or respond to unfair attacks on me or general attacks as to what or whom I agree with.
If you have anything to say to me then please pm me,I will not be drawn into belittling this important thread,having to justify myself to anyone and I really don't see why I should have to anyway InOne.
Feel free to contact me via pm if you wish to say any more to me please.

A far more dignified response than either InOne or Josy deserve! What is it with this forum that people think they have the right to question friendships with other FMs? It's intrusive and bloody rude. Fair enough to debate the topic in hand, but personal interactions between FMs should be respected. Is there any need for the snide digs and heckling? it's bordering on bullying.

[Kazanne]

It is clear this is a case very close to your heart kazanne, I believe,am I right that a paper wanted to do something like that a few years back but were stopped or advise at least not to by the Home office.

The British press are not allowed to print any pictures of what they look like now(well we have to protect these barstewerts,don't we?).It was an American company who enhanced the photos,there is also one of James and how he would have looked now,and a very handsome chap he would have been.

[Kazanne]

What sorts of psychologists were they? I thought that was just conjecture from the gutter press and politicians. It always seemed weird to me. The press wanted to have their cake and eat it. To have Venables held fully responsible for his own actions and for him to do time in an adult prison, but it also wanted to blame dumb horror/slasher movies and the way they influenced poor impressionable children, taking no account of the sort of fundamental parental neglect that leads somebody to act in such a way. The equivalent to blaming the Columbine Massacre on first-person shooter games.

Ironic then that the press may inadvertantly have gotten Venables a lighter sentence.

It WAS picked up by the press and they had a field day with it,but reports do say that they did watch horror movies,not just 'Childs Play' they also tortured animals,but I STILL do not believe the films were their motive,imo it was a cop out by those that hadn't got an answer,even Albert Kirby the detective at the time said the crime was horrendous,grown men were crying.And some people want these two perverts left in peace!!!

[Kazanne]

Repeatedly saying he agrees with other peoples posts, using foul language and describing how he would like to cut the hands off or murder the "b******s" is hardly constructive.

Have you come in here just to have a pop at Jedward or have you something to say on the subject?

[Josy]

Are you saying that if I say I agree with him that because I say that I should be questioned as to whether I know him or not, what has that to do with the topic?

I can't see where there any laws against agreeing with people. Also I am not the only one to commend him,I take into account his age and also hearing some comments from othhers on here, he is far more easy to agree with than many.
He has strong views, most of the people I know and have around me are saying very much what he says.even stronger too.
I am afraid I don't get your point, I have not had any communications with you and I answered a personal question from InOne anyway.
I don't get your point.Sorry. However it seems simply that you do not agree with him and I do agree with him, and what on earth is wrong with either of those positions?

I suggest you re read what I posted, I have no interest in wether you know jedward fever or not, I never once mentioned that I agree or disagree with him or that it was wrong of you to agree with him so I have no idea were that came from, what I did mean with my last post was that you keep posting how constructive, mature and well though out his posts have been in this thread, I disagree with this, I dont find his repetitive posts about how he would do this or that to certain people constructive in the slightest and if you have a problem with that then sorry but thats my opinion.

A far more dignified response than either InOne or Josy deserve! What is it with this forum that people think they have the right to question friendships with other FMs? It's intrusive and bloody rude. Fair enough to debate the topic in hand, but personal interactions between FMs should be respected. Is there any need for the snide digs and heckling? it's bordering on bullying.

Not to be rude here Angus but who are you to tell anyone what kind of response I deserve? I never once mentioned joeysteele or jedward fevers friendship ANYWERE in my post, I was posting an opinion so in future try and read things properly before before being so "rude", im now bowing out of this thread as I wouldnt want anymore accusations of bias mods, protecting their own etc to ruin what has turned out to be a very interesting debate.

[Angus]

I suggest you re read what I posted, I have no interest in wether you know jedward fever or not, I never once mentioned that I agree or disagree with him or that it was wrong of you to agree with him so I have no idea were that came from, what I did mean with my last post was that you keep posting how constructive, mature and well though out his posts have been in this thread, I disagree with this, I dont find his repetitive posts about how he would do this or that to certain people constructive in the slightest and if you have a problem with that they sorry but thats my opinion.



Not to be rude here Angus but who are you to tell anyone what kind of response I deserve? I never once mentioned joeysteele or jedward fevers friendship ANYWERE in my post, I was posting an opinion so in future try and read things properly before before being so "rude", im now bowing out of this thread as I wouldnt want anymore accusations of bias mods, protecting thier own etc to ruin what has turned out to be a very interesting debate.


Yet you still felt the need to comment on Joeysteele's admiration of jedward fever.:rolleyes: If that isn't rude and intrusive I don't know what is. Why not just address your disapproval of jedward fever's posting style to him directly? Oh, but wait, that would also be rude and intrusive since he is entitled to his opinions, and so long as he's not breaking any rules, he's entitled to express himself any which way he wants. I would also point out that my remarks were addressed to joeysteele and not to you and, as you say, if you are free to criticise other FMs indirectly, so am I.

[joeysteele]

Thak you very much indeed Angus58, I can't for the life of me see what I am doing wrong to get these unwarranted comments made to me in these posts but then I am very new to forums so don't understand the politics of it maybe.
Thank you Angus58 for your support, and between some and jedward fever, I know who I would rather deal with. Thank you very much again.
As I said though,anyone can pm me if they want to ask 'me' something, this thread is not the place.

[Angus]

Thak you very much indeed Angus58, I can't for the life of me see what I am doing wrong to get these unwarranted comments made to me in these posts but then I am very new to forums so don't understand the politics of it maybe.
Thank you Angus58 for your support, and between some and jedward fever, I know who I would rather deal with. Thank you very much again.
As I said though,anyone can pm me if they want to ask 'me' something, this thread is not the place.

I had this argument yesterday about the same thing. How on earth is it anybody else's business which FMs you get on with and why?

[joeysteele]

The British press are not allowed to print any pictures of what they look like now(well we have to protect these barstewerts,don't we?).It was an American company who enhanced the photos,there is also one of James and how he would have looked now,and a very handsome chap he would have been.

I recalled reading that some had been done, I knew you would be able to clarify the matter.

It is the most horrible thing I read about,It was all just so horrific. Awful.

[joeysteele]

I had this argument yesterday about the same thing. How on earth is it anybody else's business which FMs you get on with and why?

I thought that too, I will however continue to choose who I get on with and not have who I can get on with be dictated to me by others.

This thread has I have to say, opened a lot of people's eyes to the original issues you raised at the start, I had my reservations as to capital punishment, when this thread started,I started discussing with my Friends the James Bulger case and also child abuse in general, the emotions were amazing, everyone very strong in their opinions and many far more intolerant towards the abusers than even some of jedwards statements are.
It has changed my view considerably, your arguments, kazannes, jedwards and others, and even those I have mostly not agreed with have come up with some good points too.

I now believe the law needs to be massively changed, zero tolerance on this issue and if it is the best we can get as to sentencing the guilty,being life imprisonment then I am with those who advocate that abusers must never come back into society at all.

This really has been /is a truly brilliant and enlightening thread so massive congratulations to you for starting it off

[Lee.]

I have got digitally enhanced photos of those two of how they might look like now,and sometimes I am VERY tempted to post them,but it wouldn't be fair on anyone looking remotely like them,but as i said it IS tempting.

Yeah, I understand completely. My sister in law worked for the home office at the time of their release and although didn't deal with them directly, I think she dealt with some of the paperwork involved.. I remember thing WTF? when she was telling me the lengths that are gone to protect these animals.. their new locations, their new identities.. basically anything they want ! It's disgraceful.

Same goes for Baby P's mum! She should be released from prison into the hands of the public, not given the life of Riley at the hands of the taxpayer!

[joeysteele]

Yeah, I understand completely. My sister in law worked for the home office at the time of their release and although didn't deal with them directly, I think she dealt with some of the paperwork involved.. I remember thing WTF? when she was telling me the lengths that are gone to protect these animals.. their new locations, their new identities.. basically anything they want ! It's disgraceful.

Same goes for Baby P's mum! She should be released from prison into the hands of the public, not given the life of Riley at the hands of the taxpayer!

You are correct,There is also so much protection for them,the abusers but so little support for the families of the children killed or traumatised by the abuse.

When you think how long ago the James Bulger murder was,that poor little lad,it was horrific. Yet still children are being abused, sexually abused and murdered,.

When are the lessons going to be really learned and then make sure as best as possible that it never happens again but much more to the point that once caught and found guilty at least those abusers 'never' ever get the chanvce to in any way harm a child again and there are only 2 ways to ensure that, capital punishment or when senteneced to life in prison, it is for the 'full' rest of their lives.Not just a few years.

[Lee.]

You are correct,There is also so much protection for them,the abusers but so little support for the families of the children killed or traumatised by the abuse.

When you think how long ago the James Bulger murder was,that poor little lad,it was horrific. Yet still children are being abused, sexually abused and murdered,.

When are the lessons going to be really learned and then make sure as best as possible that it never happens again but much more to the point that once caught and found guilty at least those abusers 'never' ever get the chanvce to in any way harm a child again and there are only 2 ways to ensure that, capital punishment or when senteneced to life in prison, it is for the 'full' rest of their lives.Not just a few years.

Yeah, I agree entirely. There is no way that evil like that should be allowed to freely live amongst others!

[joeysteele]

[QUOTE=Josy;3833584]I suggest you re read what I posted, I have no interest in wether you know jedward fever or not, I never once mentioned that I agree or disagree with him or that it was wrong of you to agree with him so I have no idea were that came from, what I did mean with my last post was that you keep posting how constructive, mature and well though out his posts have been in this thread, I disagree with this, I dont find his repetitive posts about how he would do this or that to certain people constructive in the slightest and if you have a problem with that then sorry but thats my opinion.



I respect all people even those I disagree with, you directly posted to me as to my support for someone else who posts on here.
I have no problem at all with you not finding another persons posts constructive. I also personally have no problem with you but it seems for some reason you have a problem with me. However that too is your right.

[Angus]

Yeah, I understand completely. My sister in law worked for the home office at the time of their release and although didn't deal with them directly, I think she dealt with some of the paperwork involved.. I remember thing WTF? when she was telling me the lengths that are gone to protect these animals.. their new locations, their new identities.. basically anything they want ! It's disgraceful.

Same goes for Baby P's mum! She should be released from prison into the hands of the public, not given the life of Riley at the hands of the taxpayer!

The blame for this farcical justice system lies with the Labour Party who are also responsible for the introduction of the iniquitous Human Rights legislation gleefully being exploited by every criminal, terrorist and illegal immigrant. Now we have the libdems putting a spanner in the works to try and prevent its repeal.:rolleyes:

[joeysteele]

I think the human rights act needs to be repealed for the UK too or at least completely re-drafted.
These things that change the constitution of a Nation or its current rulings,should only be implemented after asking the people in a referendum,I don't get why the question 'should we re-negotiate the human rights act' cannot be asked to the people of the UK in a referendum, if the people then will it so, then the EU would have to at least go some way to appeasing that view.

[joeysteele]

Yeah, I agree entirely. There is no way that evil like that should be allowed to freely live amongst others!

Evil,is a word that gets misused a lot and I rarely use it but considering all the issues as to sexually abusing a child I have to say that it is really the only word that fits these crimes.

[Kazanne]

The blame for this farcical justice system lies with the Labour Party who are also responsible for the introduction of the iniquitous Human Rights legislation gleefully being exploited by every criminal, terrorist and illegal immigrant. Now we have the libdems putting a spanner in the works to try and prevent its repeal.:rolleyes:

Did you know Angus,Michael Howard wanted Jamess' killers to get at least 15 years then it was taken to the court of European Rights and Jack Straw agreed to drop the sentence to 8 years as it was said they were tried unfairly!!!!One was sent to Barton Moss secure centre the other somewhere else.They are NOT being monitored properly as one of the conditions of them being set free was to never set foot in Liverpool again,and Thompson clearly has as he was seen,one day I hope their luck runs out,they say the devil looks after his own,he is certainly looking after them,but i believe in karma ,so I can wait!

[Kazanne]

Yeah, I understand completely. My sister in law worked for the home office at the time of their release and although didn't deal with them directly, I think she dealt with some of the paperwork involved.. I remember thing WTF? when she was telling me the lengths that are gone to protect these animals.. their new locations, their new identities.. basically anything they want ! It's disgraceful.

Same goes for Baby P's mum! She should be released from prison into the hands of the public, not given the life of Riley at the hands of the taxpayer!

She will be out in a couple of years with everything she needs,new house,car and identity,makes a sane person mad!!