Would you be dissapointed if your child came out as Gay?

[Niamh.]

:nono: no stu if your ring fingers are bigger then you have typically male hands!!!

mine are the same height, what does that mean?

[MTVN]

I've said it before and I'll say it again - that statistic is a crock of sh!t. There are WAY more gay/bi people FFS. A lot probably didn't want to say or they went to the straightest of cities etc. I'd say a good 15% are.

Like it or not, that was from an official survey, the largest social survey ever produced by the Office of National Statistics in fact. They did not just go to "the straightest of cities".

Obviously it will have it's shortcomings, but it's a more reliable source then your unfounded guess of 15%. I highly doubt that 14.5% of the people surveyed were in the closet.

[Z]

I know it's not a choice. I never even hinted to it being one. I just don't think it's inherrited, something wrong just simply happens.


I've said it before and I'll say it again - that statistic is a crock of sh!t. There are WAY more gay/bi people FFS. A lot probably didn't want to say or they went to the straightest of cities etc. I'd say a good 15% are.

Do you really know what you're saying? Your argument seems a bit confused... Homosexuality isn't a conscious choice, nobody wakes up one morning and thinks "I'm going to be a homosexual"; the main arguments are that it is something you are born with or something in the way in which you were brought up caused you to be a homosexual. You saying that you don't think it's inherited, but it's something that goes wrong - you're splitting hairs there, both come down to genetics, if I'm understanding you correctly, call it a mutation in genes or call it an inherited gene that's been mutated: same thing.

15% is a really high estimation, I don't think the actual percentage would be anywhere near that. Truth is, we won't ever know exact figures of homosexuality unless every single person in the UK was asked (how do you account for young people who don't have a sexual identity yet?) and you have to consider that homosexuality still carries stigma, not everybody would be comfortable sharing that information. Personally I'd guess around 7%-8% of the population are homosexual (including gays and lesbians under that banner) but that's a complete guess.

[Stu]

Both 1% and 15% are both equally riddiculous figures. I would put it somewhere in between. Surveys are to be taken with a pinch of salt.

One in one hundred people gay? That's riddiculous.

Also the idea that homosexuality is either genetic or 'a mistake' is a very, very narrow minded view, Philip. Especially given how vague you are in your explanation. How does something go wrong in the womb? Too much wine? Bumping into a pink building?

Social meanderings and upbringing are probably the main causing factors. That's not to say it's a choice. It takes years to develop and once you hit puberty you cannot reverse it, IMO, if that is the answer.

Like I said before, I honestly don't know. Nobody does. I reckon it's a combination of genetics and upbringing.

[_Seth]

Do you really know what you're saying? Your argument seems a bit confused... Homosexuality isn't a conscious choice, nobody wakes up one morning and thinks "I'm going to be a homosexual"; the main arguments are that it is something you are born with or something in the way in which you were brought up caused you to be a homosexual. You saying that you don't think it's inherited, but it's something that goes wrong - you're splitting hairs there, both come down to genetics, if I'm understanding you correctly, call it a mutation in genes or call it an inherited gene that's been mutated: same thing.

15% is a really high estimation, I don't think the actual percentage would be anywhere near that. Truth is, we won't ever know exact figures of homosexuality unless every single person in the UK was asked (how do you account for young people who don't have a sexual identity yet?) and you have to consider that homosexuality still carries stigma, not everybody would be comfortable sharing that information. Personally I'd guess around 7%-8% of the population are homosexual (including gays and lesbians under that banner) but that's a complete guess.

As I say, I never even hinted that being gay is a choice. Where is everyone getting that from? All I'm saying is that I do not think it's inherited. I just think it's literally that something has gone slightly different whilst your in the womb.

I'd say 9% of people are not straight, then. 9 people, roughly, out of 100.

[MTVN]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11398629

There's the article on the UK's gay population for anyone whos interested.

The Chief Executive of gay charity stonewall made a couple of good points about it though:
"This is is the first time that people were asked and data collection happened on doorsteps or over the phone, which may deter people from giving accurate responses - particularly if someone isn't openly gay at home."

Stonewall worked with 600 major employers and their experience had shown that these statistics increased when people were regularly asked about sexual orientation as part of general monitoring information.

"We'd expect to see these figures increase over time as people's confidence in the survey grows and sexual orientation becomes a routine part of data collection," he said.

So yes, it should definitely be taken with a pinch of salt, but in the abscence of any real conclusive or reliable information on the gay population it seems it's the closest there is to identifying the correct number

Personally, I'd say the true figure is around 5%, maybe more, but there is no real way of knowing

[Z]

As I say, I never even hinted that being gay is a choice. Where is everyone getting that from? All I'm saying is that I do not think it's inherited. I just think it's literally that something has gone slightly different whilst your in the womb.

I'd say 9% of people are not straight, then. 9 people, roughly, out of 100.

I know you didn't, I was just giving context to the two main arguments surrounding why homosexuality occurs. 9% is more of a realistic figure than 1% or 15%, I definitely wouldn't have thought it was more than 10%.

[fruit_cake]

mine are the same height, what does that mean?

if they are equal its a female pattern apparently. My index fingers are slightly longer than my ring fingers.

Apparently its got something to do with testosterone levels in the womb. If you have the wrong pattern, statistically it makes you much more likely to turn out homosexual, or so I read.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I know it's not a choice. I never even hinted to it being one. I just don't think it's inherrited, something wrong just simply happens.


I've said it before and I'll say it again - that statistic is a crock of sh!t. There are WAY more gay/bi people FFS. A lot probably didn't want to say or they went to the straightest of cities etc. I'd say a good 15% are.

sample size 450,000

perhaps you have a better survey?


or perhaps you just thought there were more...

[Vicky.]

if they are equal its a female pattern apparently. My index fingers are slightly longer than my ring fingers.

Apparently its got something to do with testosterone levels in the womb. If you have the wrong pattern, statistically it makes you much more likely to turn out homosexual, or so I read.

My ring finger is longer than my index finger...do I have man hands? :eek:

[fruit_cake]

My ring finger is longer than my index finger...do I have man hands? :eek:

lol.. there's no way to break it to you softly Vicky.. YES you do!

r u sure you measured them properly? you need to look at them with palms facing upwards, like in the diagram. My mums got one hand one way and the other hand the other way.

http://xmb.stuffucanuse.com/xmb/image.php?&aid=557&finger.gif

http://i.usatoday.net/news/_photos/2008/01/23/handx-large.jpg
It has to be quite a large difference in measurement.

[Vicky.]

lol.. there's no way to break it to you softly Vicky.. YES you do!

r u sure you measured them properly? you need to look at them with palms facing upwards, like in the diagram. My mums got one hand one way and the other hand the other way.
.
That would make no difference surely...from either way your ring finger would be bigger than your index :S

Not a huge difference no, maybe about half a centimeter...

[fruit_cake]

That would make no difference surely...from either way your ring finger would be bigger than your index :S

Not a huge difference no, maybe about half a centimeter...

I don't think it makes any difference, just makes it easier to judge the differences I think

Men who have very long ring fingers have a higher susceptability to prostate cancer, and Women who have very long index fingers higher susceptability to breast cancer too apparently.

[Vicky.]

I don't think it makes any difference, just makes it easier to judge the differences I think

Men who have very long ring fingers have a higher susceptability to prostate cancer, and Women who have very long index fingers higher susceptability to breast cancer too apparently.

Ah well. I have the hands of a bloke but am less likely to get breast cancer because of this. Think I can live with that :p

[fruit_cake]

Ah well. I have the hands of a bloke but am less likely to get breast cancer because of this. Think I can live with that :p

sounds like a good trade off I guess :joker:

[_Seth]

Apparently its got something to do with testosterone levels in the womb. If you have the wrong pattern, statistically it makes you much more likely to turn out homosexual, or so I read.
My ring finger is the same size as my index one on my right hand, but my ring finger is a tiny bit longer on my left hand. :(
sample size 450,000

perhaps you have a better survey?


or perhaps you just thought there were more...
I just think a lot of people were lying. 1 and a half gay people out of 100? What a load of old SH!T!
I don't think it makes any difference, just makes it easier to judge the differences I think

Men who have very long ring fingers have a higher susceptability to prostate cancer, and Women who have very long index fingers higher susceptability to breast cancer too apparently.

I'm scared now. :(


Are gay men more sexually active than straight men?

[Shaun]

My ring finger is longer than my index, don't worry guys, I love penis as much as the next (gay) man. The theory is bogus.

[_Seth]

My ring finger is longer than my index, don't worry guys, I love penis as much as the next (gay) man. The theory is bogus.

Wait what, I thought it HAD to be longer for you to be gay. But either way, you could still be one of those few people.

[letmein]

Both 1% and 15% are both equally riddiculous figures. I would put it somewhere in between. Surveys are to be taken with a pinch of salt.

One in one hundred people gay? That's riddiculous.

Also the idea that homosexuality is either genetic or 'a mistake' is a very, very narrow minded view, Philip. Especially given how vague you are in your explanation. How does something go wrong in the womb? Too much wine? Bumping into a pink building?

Social meanderings and upbringing are probably the main causing factors. That's not to say it's a choice. It takes years to develop and once you hit puberty you cannot reverse it, IMO, if that is the answer.

Like I said before, I honestly don't know. Nobody does. I reckon it's a combination of genetics and upbringing.

"Social meanderings and upbringing" have NOTHING to do with it. Trust me.

The belief now is that it's due to a collection of genes that are either turned off or turned on. All the studies keep showing this, and they're moving in that direction. Bottom line, we're getting closer to the cause. One thing's for certain though, upbringing has next to nothing to do with homosexuality. People can become "confused" about their sexuality from upbringing, but true homosexuality or true heterosexuality is an inborn trait. It's hardwired.

[Tom]

My ring finger is longer than my index, don't worry guys, I love penis as much as the next (gay) man. The theory is bogus.

Good, I was getting worried then. On my left hand with my palm facing me my ring finger is a tiny bit bigger than my index finger yet when I turn my hand over my ring finger is bigger? :conf: and then on my right hand my ring finger is miles bigger than my index finger

I'm left handed ...

[Tom]

Yeah but from what I've heard from gay people, they didn't choose to be gay...it just happened to be there.

So how do you explain it? if it's not genetics, what is it considering it is something you cannot control?

You don't choose your first language, it just kind of happens. But that isn't natural, thats all to do with social conditioning

I think its somewhere in the middle, I think some people are more inclined to be gay whilst others can have experiences in early childhood which can make them gay

[_Seth]

^You LEARN languages and grasp it. You don't learn and grasp what gender you're attracted to. It's absolutely 100% something you're born with, IMO.

[Tom]

^You LEARN languages and grasp it. You don't learn and grasp what gender you're attracted to. It's absolutely 100% something you're born with, IMO.

I'm using the language thing because its a good comparison for the sexuality debate, you can't remember not speaking your first language so its something that just comes natural to you. How can you say that sexuality isn't the same and isn't in social conditioning just as language is? Similar concepts include accents, mannerisms and values.

[_Seth]

I'm using the language thing because its a good comparison for the sexuality debate, you can't remember not speaking your first language so its something that just comes natural to you. How can you say that sexuality isn't the same and isn't in social conditioning just as language is? Similar concepts include accents, mannerisms and values.

Sexuality has nothing to do with social conditioning. Unless you're thinking of campness.

You're not BORN with your language, it's just something you learn.

[Tom]

Sexuality has nothing to do with social conditioning. Unless you're thinking of campness.

You're not BORN with your language, it's just something you learn.

How can you categorically say its not the same or at least impacts? the whole point in the language comparison is that its not something you're born with but its something you can't remember aquiring.

[_Seth]

How can you categorically say its not the same or at least impacts? the whole point in the language comparison is that its not something you're born with but its something you can't remember aquiring.

Because it wouldn't make sense to have your sexuality be developed while you're being. It's like, you could learn a second language. Could you learn a second sexuality and be bisexual? The fact that you can't remember getting something means nothing. Sexuality is hard-wired into the brain, whereas languages aren't.

[Tom]

Because it wouldn't make sense to have your sexuality be developed while you're being. It's like, you could learn a second language. Could you learn a second sexuality and be bisexual? The fact that you can't remember getting something means nothing. Sexuality is hard-wired into the brain, whereas languages aren't.

How do you know its hard wired?

[_Seth]

How do you know its hard wired?

Because it's not like it's an opinion on for example your favourite colour, which changes. Sexuality does not change at all. It makes perfect sense for it to have developed whilst in the womb. It's a natural attraction you have to someone.

It's like software vs hardware. The hardware which is the sexuality has physical stuff, which is most likely testosterone or w/e, which can't be changed, tbh. The software which would be your favourite colour, isn't a physical inbuilt thing - something psychological can affect your judgement of it.

[Tom]

Because it's not like it's an opinion on for example your favourite colour, which changes. Sexuality does not change at all. It makes perfect sense for it to have developed whilst in the womb. It's a natural attraction you have to someone.

It's like software vs hardware. The hardware which is the sexuality has physical stuff, which is most likely testosterone or w/e, which can't be changed, tbh. The software which would be your favourite colour, isn't a physical inbuilt thing - something psychological can affect your judgement of it.

So how do you get people who go through a 'gay phase'?

[_Seth]

So how do you get people who go through a 'gay phase'?

You need to be more specific. What is that? I think it's impossible to be temporarily attracted to the same sex.

[Tom]

You need to be more specific. What is that? I think it's impossible to be temporarily attracted to the same sex.

Some people think they're gay only to realise weeks/months/years later that they're not. Or perhaps they were but something has changed

I'm not saying its not built in, I just think people should think more outside of the box. Its not as black & white as you're born gay or you're not born gay.

[_Seth]

Some people think they're gay only to realise weeks/months/years later that they're not. Or perhaps they were but something has changed

I'm not saying its not built in, I just think people should think more outside of the box. Its not as black & white as you're born gay or you're not born gay.

When it comes to hard-wired stuff, I think it is. They were probably just curious or a little bit gay.

It's pretty simple stuff, really.

I hope I don't appear closed minded in all this because I really have thought about this stuff. :joker:

[MrGaryy]

if I had the choice, would I choose for them to be gay? no, for their sake because kids kind of have enough to deal with when they're young without all that on top of it.

would I be disappointed? no more than I would be happy that my child is straight. I honestly wouldn't care either way, the section of my child's life that has to do with their relationships and sexuality should really have little or nothing to do with the aspect concerning me as their parent.

[fuzzylovin]

I dont think your born gay or your born straight, you just fall in love wether it could be a man or a woman.

I wouldnt be disapointed if my child was gay, id rather them be happy with who they are then suffer in silence.

[Niamh.]

I dont think your born gay or your born straight, you just fall in love wether it could be a man or a woman.

I wouldnt be disapointed if my child was gay, id rather them be happy with who they are then suffer in silence.

Not a chance. I can appreciate if another woman is good looking but I know that I will never fall for another woman romantically, and I'm sure most straight and gay people would agree with me here that you're either attracted to one sex or the other (unless you're bi of course)

[fruit_cake]

Not a chance. I can appreciate if another woman is good looking but I know that I will never fall for another woman romantically, and I'm sure most straight and gay people would agree with me here that you're either attracted to one sex or the other (unless you're bi of course)

I agree with this!

[Grimnir]

when i read title of this i had vision of new baby bein born, the nurse smackin to make cry and then the baby sayin in a camp voice "ooooo u bitch"

[Crimson Dynamo]

I dont think your born gay or your born straight, you just fall in love wether it could be a man or a woman.

.

er no.98.5% of people are attracted to the opposite sex as that is how we have evolved to survive. A very small number are attracted to one sex and it probably has a lot to do with their parental relationships.

It is no coincidence that many lesbian women are a bit blokey and many homosexual men are girly.

[Beastie]

I am straight. There are a few shagable blokes out there.

Anyway I would support my child whatever their sexuality :) Would make no difference to me whether they are gay or straight or bi!

[Crimson Dynamo]

I am straight. There are a few shagable blokes out there.

Anyway I would support my child whatever their sexuality :) Would make no difference to me whether they are gay or straight or bi!

again

that is not the question

[Beastie]

I'd like 3 Kids.

Sorry 4.

2 Boys and 2 Girls.

2 Boys, Reason? Back Up.
Means if one is gay, then fair enough you can still live under my roof and that just don't bring any lads home.

The other, would turn out straight and then we could have abit of banter, down the pub, Father and Son drink together in the strip club, You know.

Now here's where it get's good and lads, take this on board.


I convince the girlfriend to have 2 daughters, reason?
Well,


1 Will turn out, not normal.. well straight, She can ****** off to a flat down the road the second she brings a bloke home.

The other will hopefully be a lesbian.

Reason?
Well it's simple.

She will bring home alot of girls.

We hope their relationship fails, and she moves onto the next girl.
Then, I get the rebound.

But of course my daughter's Ex Girlfriend is a lesbian, so it's simple.

I keep an eye on her, just keep in contact you know, until she gets another girl.
Then, I ask them both to perform Lesbian Sex in my bedroom.

[This is my daughter's EX Girlfriend and her NEW Girlfriend, my Daughter isn't involved so no incest or Fritzl business is happening x]


And everyone lives happily ever after,


Providing no one tells the wife.

:laugh:

[Beastie]

again

that is not the question

I would NOT be disappointed if my child turned out to be gay.

[letmein]

Some people think they're gay only to realise weeks/months/years later that they're not. Or perhaps they were but something has changed

I'm not saying its not built in, I just think people should think more outside of the box. Its not as black & white as you're born gay or you're not born gay.

People are either one or the other. People may "question" their sexual orientation, but it IS set in their makeup. You cannot simply change your sexuality. There are however people that are truly bisexual. However, bisexual people either lean more towards heterosexuality or homosexuality. No one is actually strictly in the middle.

People have been studying this for ages. It's hardwired.

[Stu]

My mind is hazy but I recall posting something here a few hours ago and now it is gone?

And I was responding to one of LeatherTrumpet's posts which has ...

... also been deleted?

[Vicky.]

My mind is hazy but I recall posting something here a few hours ago and now it is gone?

And I was responding to one of LeatherTrumpet's posts which has ...

... also been deleted?

You recall correctly.

I'm assuming LTs was deleted because it added nothing at all to the convo and was just baiting another member, and then yours because you quoted it :/

[Fetch The Bolt Cutters]

no because i would never have kids they are vile and i hate them :love:

-Edited. Chill out or you will end up banned again.-

[Stu]

And simonsays was let back because ... ?

[Fetch The Bolt Cutters]

And simonsays was let back because ... ?

because it was a 7 day ban and the 7 days are up, silly.

[Stu]

because it was a 7 day ban and the 7 days are up, silly.
Why. Not how. Spunkstain.

[Fetch The Bolt Cutters]

Why. Not how. Spunkstain.

*reports for bullying*

[Shasown]

I would NOT be disappointed if my child turned out to be gay.

Me neither. In fact my eldest daughter claims to be bisexual, I think she is just greedy sexually.

Mind you after thinking deeply on it, If un the unlikely event of ever having any more children and they decide to to come out as gay, I would be very scared.

Scared they turn out like some of the lets say less intelligent members on this forum who claim to be gay.

[Shasown]

*reports for bullying*

Bullying?



*Wanders off wondering if some people live in the real ****ing world*

[cub]

People are either one or the other. People may "question" their sexual orientation, but it IS set in their makeup. You cannot simply change your sexuality. There are however people that are truly bisexual. However, bisexual people either lean more towards heterosexuality or homosexuality. No one is actually strictly in the middle.

People have been studying this for ages. It's hardwired.

Sexuality is sometimes more 'fluid' than that. It has been known that sexuality changes for some people. You can't just put everyone in a box and say 'This is your box'.

My sexuality was very set as a child and so I was lucky, but that's not the same for everyone, which is why some people are confused and some need help with sexuality issues.

For some life is very straight forward and others it is more complicated.

[Fetch The Bolt Cutters]

Me neither. In fact my eldest daughter claims to be bisexual, I think she is just greedy sexually.

Mind you after thinking deeply on it, If un the unlikely event of ever having any more children and they decide to to come out as gay, I would be very scared.

Scared they turn out like some of the lets say less intelligent members on this forum who claim to be gay.

yall best not be talkin bout me :nono:

[lostalex]

When/If i'm ever a parent,my child's sexuality is NONE Of My BUSINESS.

The less I know about it the better, in my opinion.

If my child turns out to be gay, and IF society is still as bigoted as it is now, then perhaps i'll have to console him/her and reassure him/her about their place in society. But other than lending support to him/her when facing discrimination, I want to know as little about it as possible.

Sexuality is such a unique and personal thing, no one can really advise you about it.

i think unfortunately, due to all the bigotry we see in today's society, we think that gay/lesbian youth need some sort of special guidance about sexuality, but it's not about their sexuality at all, it's about discrimination....i hope by the time i have kids this will no longer exist, but if it does, i will talk to them about discrimination, not about sexuality, because they are 2 very separate things.

Sexuality is very individual, but discrimination is a community problem. My child's sexuality is none of my concern, but my child facing discrimination is VERY MUCH my concern.