Margaret Thatcher has Died of a stroke [Speak your mind]

[Jake.]

Oh and btw I wasn't bashing anybody of different ages on here having educated views, I was on about clueless young'uns (mainly on FB and Twitter) who have no idea what they are talking about :p

[arista]

nedVpG-GjkE

[Omah]

I'm not defending her, I'm pointing out that unless you was actually around at that period or have actually researched politics, you're not going to be as clued up as should be before writing trash over your twitter page at the age of 17

But that assertion applies to both sides of the divide ..... ;)

[arista]

2 Scottish viewers phoned the Wright Stuff Ch5HD
and Backed Thatcher.


Its all going down today.

[Omah]

2 Scottish viewers phoned the Wright Stuff Ch5HD
and Backed Thatcher.


Its all going down today.

Only 2 ..... :laugh3:

[GiRTh]

2 Scottish viewers phoned the Wright Stuff Ch5HD
and Backed Thatcher.


Its all going down today.WOW. Someone will burn their houses down this evening.

[Kazanne]

loose women discussing her now

[arista]

loose women discussing her now


Old Carole on ITV1HD - Shocker

[arista]

Only 2 ..... :laugh3:


Yes 2
that shocked Matt Wright
who expected anger.

[Kazanne]

Old Carole on ITV1HD - Shocker

:joker::joker: talking sense though Arista

[arista]

:joker::joker: talking sense though Arista


Yes she knows the score

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/09/article-2306165-192ED9A3000005DC-200_634x517.jpg
Bristol gathering to celebrate the death of Margaret Thatcher

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/09/article-2306165-193014A0000005DC-887_634x454.jpg
For Omah . Brixton

[Jesus.]

:joker::joker: talking sense though Arista

That's only because it conforms with your point of view, I'm guessing.

[Kazanne]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/09/article-2306165-192ED9A3000005DC-200_634x517.jpg
Bristol gathering to celebrate the death of Margaret Thatcher

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/09/article-2306165-193014A0000005DC-887_634x454.jpg
For Omah . Brixton

Bit childish imo,keep it for the Philpotts of this world.

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/09/article-2306165-193017F9000005DC-818_634x542.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/09/article-2306165-19301571000005DC-18_634x923.jpg
Shop Smashed

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/09/article-2306165-192F1D0E000005DC-706_634x422.jpg
Another for Omah

[Jesus.]

Bit childish imo,keep it for the Philpotts of this world.

Yeah, not like Thatcher sent anyone to their deaths, or destroyed families.

[Z]

Why are people rioting and smashing windows of charity shops? For God's sake.

[arista]

Why are people rioting and smashing windows of charity shops? For God's sake.


Punks
nothing better to do.

[Kazanne]

Why are people rioting and smashing windows of charity shops? For God's sake.

And we are supposed to show empathy for these morons.

[Nedusa]

Apparently both her children (Mark and Carol) knew of their mothers impending death before the weekend but decided they did not want to come to London to see her one final time, preferring instead to stay abroad.

what does this say about Mrs Thatcher ?? , her own family not really bothered...!!!

Mrs Thatcher , the Iron lady R.I.P (Rust in peace)...!!!

[Jesus.]

Are there any links to new stories about Thatcher protests resulting in smashing charity shops up, or is it just these photos from Arista?

[Jake.]

Why are people rioting and smashing windows of charity shops? For God's sake.

Exactly.

[arista]

Are there any links to new stories about Thatcher protests resulting in smashing charity shops up, or is it just these photos from Arista?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2306165/Margaret-Thatcher-death-parties-The-Lefts-sick-celebration-Brixtons-streets.html

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/About/General/2013/4/9/1365506941003/Margaret-Thatcher-death-n-009.jpg

[the truth]

They endlessly plugged he fact she was the daughter of a greengrocer and therefore a champion of small business....well firstly her dad wasnt just a greengrocer he was mayor of grantham and secondly, thatcher doubled the rate of VAT which basically kept a lot of small businesses from growing. She also increased the tax on fuel and national insurance beyond the rate of inflation every year ....regulations on small business increased in many areas yet decreased for major companies whose tax bills fell. she may well have been a champion of the elite, but the vat doubling alone, he fuel hikes, the nat ins hikes, the regulation hikes, would all suggest she was never the champion of small business, shes being painted by the brown nosing right wing media. however she was also not quite the anti nhs , anti government politician she was painted as either. as we see from figures below.


GDP and public spending
by functional classification % change in real terms
1979/80 to 1989/90[81]
GDP +23.3
Total government spending +12.9
Law and order +53.3
Employment and training +33.3
Health +31.8
Social security +31.8
Transport −5.8
Trade and industry −38.2
Housing −67.0
Defence −3.3[82]

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/09/article-2306165-1931A409000005DC-869_634x422.jpg
Bristol

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/09/article-2306165-1930F594000005DC-166_634x441.jpg
Liverpool

[Ammi]

Apparently both her children (Mark and Carol) knew of their mothers impending death before the weekend but decided they did not want to come to London to see her one final time, preferring instead to stay abroad.

what does this say about Mrs Thatcher ?? , her own family not really bothered...!!!

Mrs Thatcher , the Iron lady R.I.P (Rust in peace)...!!!

..it doesn't say anything..we can't comment on private things unless a public statement is made by them..they may have already said their goodbyes to their mother and it may have been decided that coming home at the weekend wasn't the best thing..who knows..not us...

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/09/article-0-19301492000005DC-202_634x416.jpg

[Scarlett.]

Thats not "the left" thats the usual crowd who smash up stuff for no apparent reason.

[Kazanne]

It's just an excuse for the morons to go out and destroy property again,most of them are kids and don't even know what she was about,people like this really effing annoy me,they are 'happy' someone is dead so lets go out and smash some windows,and destroy others peoples lives,idiots THEY are no different to her if they believe that is what she did.

[Kazanne]

..it doesn't say anything..we can't comment on private things unless a public statement is made by them..they may have already said their goodbyes to their mother and it may have been decided that coming home at the weekend wasn't the best thing..who knows..not us...

agreed.

[Jake.]

It's just an excuse for the morons to go out and destroy property again,most of them are kids and don't even know what she was about,people like this really effing annoy me,they are 'happy' someone is dead so lets go out and smash some windows,and destroy others peoples lives,idiots THEY are no different to her if they believe that is what she did.

Agree with you here

[the truth]

id rather the left verbalized their opinions and their counter arguments properly and constructively. this behaviour is simply disgraceful , illegal and they all need to be locked up NOW

[Jesus.]

SO a few morons turn up, were confronted by police and a ruck breaks out. This represents every person who is indifferent to her death?

[Scarlett.]

id rather the left verbalized their opinions and their counter arguments properly and constructively. this behaviour is simply disgraceful , illegal and they all need to be locked up NOW

Generalising people as "the left" is rather stupid, there is plenty of people on here that have verbalized their opinons and counter arguements constructively.

[AnnieK]

..it doesn't say anything..we can't comment on private things unless a public statement is made by them..they may have already said their goodbyes to their mother and it may have been decided that coming home at the weekend wasn't the best thing..who knows..not us...

Absolutely agree with this....

[Jake.]

SO a few morons turn up, were confronted by police and a ruck breaks out. This represents every person who is indifferent to her death?

Oh no, not at all. I just think it's disgraceful that these people will ruin family businesses and wreck town centers and what not, some of which is why they supposedly despised this woman. It doesn't represent all of those with negative opinions about Thatcher, in fact it's a minority really.

[AnnieK]

SO a few morons turn up, were confronted by police and a ruck breaks out. This represents every person who is indifferent to her death?

Agreed, these are just people who use any excuse to cause trouble. I doubt it represents anything from either side.

[GiRTh]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hpVYV6FzCA

Comment from a American cable news outlet. They've decided to tell it how it is even if they get some of the facts wrong.

[Kazanne]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hpVYV6FzCA

Comment from a American cable news outlet. They've decided to tell it how it is even if they get some of the facts wrong.

The fact they get some of the 'facts' wrong ,this video is not to be taken as fact.:hugesmile:

[GiRTh]

The fact they get some of the 'facts' wrong ,this video is not to be taken as fact.:hugesmile:I thought it was an amusing vid. Seems like the networks in USA are painting a picture of Thatcher that's barely recognisable to us Brits but cable news outlets are keeping it real..

[Livia]

They endlessly plugged he fact she was the daughter of a greengrocer and therefore a champion of small business....well firstly her dad wasnt just a greengrocer he was mayor of grantham and secondly, thatcher doubled the rate of VAT which basically kept a lot of small businesses from growing. She also increased the tax on fuel and national insurance beyond the rate of inflation every year ....regulations on small business increased in many areas yet decreased for major companies whose tax bills fell. she may well have been a champion of the elite, but the vat doubling alone, he fuel hikes, the nat ins hikes, the regulation hikes, would all suggest she was never the champion of small business, shes being painted by the brown nosing right wing media. however she was also not quite the anti nhs , anti government politician she was painted as either. as we see from figures below.


GDP and public spending
by functional classification % change in real terms
1979/80 to 1989/90[81]
GDP +23.3
Total government spending +12.9
Law and order +53.3
Employment and training +33.3
Health +31.8
Social security +31.8
Transport −5.8
Trade and industry −38.2
Housing −67.0
Defence −3.3[82]

Googled figures from God know's where. Always an opinion changer.

You say "her father wasn't just a grocer, he was Mayor of Grantham!" like it's akin to being a pier of the realm or something. You could be Mayor of your Town if you wanted to. It isn't something you're born into. The mayor of my local town is a postman.

[Nedusa]

..it doesn't say anything..we can't comment on private things unless a public statement is made by them..they may have already said their goodbyes to their mother and it may have been decided that coming home at the weekend wasn't the best thing..who knows..not us...

Really....??? I think it says a lot, I think most people try to stay with and comfort their dying parent(s) until they pass away.

I know I rushed back to be at my mothers bedside a terrible journey I will never forget, and I was praying she didn't die before I could get there. she didn't, she died 4 hours later wiith ALL her family around her. so pardon me if I think it a little strange that NEITHER child is present at their mothers final moments.

Maybe Carol was busy with her TV work and Mark well maybe he couldn't find his way back to London. he's not too hot on directions....!!!!!

[billy123]

I will update this post with interesting facts about the milk snatcher feel free to look them up they are all true.
----------

She opposed anti-apartheid sanctions against South Africa and described Nelson Mandela as "that grubby little terrorist"

She increased VAT from 8% to 17.5%

She gained support from the National Front in the 1979 election by pandering to the fears of immigration

She was responsible for 3.6 million unemployed - the highest figure and the highest proportion of the workforce in history and three times the previous government. Massaging of the figures means that the figure was closer to 5 million

Thatcher opposed German reunification.

[AnnieK]

Really....??? I think it says a lot, I think most people try to stay with and comfort their dying parent(s) until they pass away.

I know I rushed back to be at my mothers bedside a terrible journey I will never forget, and I was praying she didn't die before I could get there. she didn't, she died 4 hours later wiith ALL her family around her. so pardon me if I think it a little strange that NEITHER child is present at their mothers final moments.

Maybe Carol was busy with her TV work and Mark well maybe he couldn't find his way back to London. he's not too hot on directions....!!!!!

We still don't know...for all we know she may have told them not to make the journey, it would have alerted the media if they had rushed there, they could have had a much more private goodbye previously. When my grandfather was dying he begged my mum to leave the hospital as he didn't want her memories tainted of that. My mum initially refused and he begged her to go...in the end she popped home for a shower (after spending 48 hours by his bedside) and he died minutes after she left. Not everyone wants the same thing and as we are not privy to that information it is merely speculation and drawing on personal experience.

[the truth]

Googled figures from God know's where. Always an opinion changer.

You say "her father wasn't just a grocer, he was Mayor of Grantham!" like it's akin to being a pier of the realm or something. You could be Mayor of your Town if you wanted to. It isn't something you're born into. The mayor of my local town is a postman.

if you could be bothered its wikipedia....I see you selectively ignore the rest of my post, which was the main point. so as usual you end up missing the point totally. she is not the person shes being portrayed by the rather black and white media coverage

[Kizzy]

I know this post was to joey, Kazanne, but I'm going to stick in my two cents... and it isn't going to be popular with with red-flag wavers...

One of the golden rules of business is that you don't move high bulk, low cost commodities a long way, you move high cost, low bulk communities. So, while you would move gold and diamonds from around the world, you wouldn't move coal because it is uneconomical so ideally you would use local supplies. And yet, our pits were so uneconomical we were shipping in coal from Australia because the coal from Durham (for example) was too expensive. That's why the pits closed, not because Thatcher had a deep dislike for working class people in general and miners in particular.

And on the subject of mining how has this panned out?
Back then oil was a lot cheaper so outsourcing probably looked like a viable option, how does it look now?
I find it hard to believe it would be cheaper to move coal from Newcastle to anywhere else on this small island seeing as there are pits dotted in Wales and Yorkshire too?
No, there had to be another reason and this reason was I believe the employment laws we have in this country, mining is a very hard, dangerous and dirty job and the wages reflected that. Another issue was the pits themselves to ensure they adhered to health and safety constraints.

Outside Britain though these rules don't apply do they? you can have as many people working for next to nothing as you like and in conditions as bad as they like, and we just import it in...Great eh.
But wait, what of all the towns, cities and rural communities affected by the closures of these pits areas where there are no other jobs available?
They go on the dole, that's what happened thousands went on the dole and created a shift in the sociological landscape of the UK.
But whose fault was it, in this blame culture we have who caused people to initially rely on the welfare state?

[GiRTh]

I will update this post with interesting facts about the milk snatcher feel free to look them up they are all true.
----------

She opposed anti-apartheid sanctions against South Africa and described Nelson Mandela as "that grubby little terrorist"

She increased VAT from 8% to 17.5%

She gained support from the National Front in the 1979 election by pandering to the fears of immigration

She was responsible for 3.6 million unemployed - the highest figure and the highest proportion of the workforce in history and three times the previous government. Massaging of the figures means that the figure was closer to 5 million

Thatcher opposed German reunification.This is a very good point. The massaging of the unemployment figures took the form of not counting people who were too ill to work and we all know what that has lead to don't we? More long term unfit for work. She is partly responsible for creating the welfare issues we now have. How ironic.:spin:

[the truth]

This is a very good point. The massaging of the unemployment figures took the form of not counting people who were too ill to work and we all know what that has lead to don't we? More long term unfit for work. She is partly responsible for creating the welfare issues we now have. How ironic.:spin:

not just short term unemployed either, these jobs are lost forever

[Kazanne]

Why is everyone blaming Mrs Thatcher for the state of the country today? Labour had several years since she left, to put things right (as they say ) but they didn't ,they continued using her policies, why?

[arista]

Why is everyone blaming Mrs Thatcher for the state of the country today? Labour had several years since she left, to put things right (as they say ) but they didn't ,they continued using her policies, why?



Yes Blair
same as Thatcher.

[Cherie]

This is a very good point. The massaging of the unemployment figures took the form of not counting people who were too ill to work and we all know what that has lead to don't we? More long term unfit for work. She is partly responsible for creating the welfare issues we now have. How ironic.:spin:

.

[Kazanne]

.

:joker::joker::joker:I was looking for your answer Cherie,while rubbing the dot of my screen and realised it was a bloody full stop:joker::joker::joker:

[Kizzy]

Whatever else may be true of her, Thatcher engaged in incredibly consequential acts that affected millions of people around the world. She played a key role not only in bringing about the first Gulf War but also using her influence to publicly advocate for the 2003 attack on Iraq. She denounced Nelson Mandela and his ANC as "terrorists", something even David Cameron ultimately admitted was wrong. She was a steadfast friend to brutal tyrants such as Augusto Pinochet, Saddam Hussein and Indonesian dictator General Suharto ("One of our very best and most valuable friends"). And as my Guardian colleague Seumas Milne detailed last year, "across Britain Thatcher is still hated for the damage she inflicted – and for her political legacy of rampant inequality and greed, privatisation and social breakdown.

http://m.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/08/margaret-thatcher-death-etiquette

[Cherie]

:joker::joker::joker:I was looking for your answer Cherie,while rubbing the dot of my screen and realised it was a bloody full stop:joker::joker::joker:

:laugh2:

[Kazanne]

:laugh2:

It's true,:joker::joker::joker:I am such an airhead sometimes:hugesmile:

[Vicky.]

2 Scottish viewers phoned the Wright Stuff Ch5HD
and Backed Thatcher.


Its all going down today.

I'm very surprised they managed to find supporters of hers that were scottish.

I didn't think such people existed :laugh:

[GiRTh]

Privatise Thatchers Funeral (http://m.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/dec/22/privatising-thatchers-funeral-fitting-tribute-legacy)

...And give it to the lowest bidder. Its what she stood for and probably what she would have wanted.

[arista]

Privatise Thatchers Funeral (http://m.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/dec/22/privatising-thatchers-funeral-fitting-tribute-legacy)

...And give it to the lowest bidder. Its what she stood for and probably what she would have wanted.



Yes but its all slotted in place now
for Next Weds (I will have to Scan the news Channels all 21 of them
to get away from the boring event so NHKWorldHD and RTHD for
that time)


Gangs will have a chance to get their Paint Bombs ready

[lostalex]

Whatever else may be true of her,Thatcher engaged in incredibly consequential acts that affected millions of people around the world. She played a key role not only in bringing about the first Gulf War.

WTF, Saddam Hussein brought about the Iraq war by INVADING KUWAIT and trying to steal their oil. Are you F-ing kidding me? How the F can you blame Thatcher for that??

[lostalex]

I find it hilarious that the same people that condemned Americans for celebrating the death of Osama Bin Laden, are the same people happily celebrating in the streets that Margaret Thatcher is dead.

Such hypocrites.

[GiRTh]

I find it hilarious that the same people that condemned Americans for celebrating the death of Osama Bin Laden, are the same people happily celebrating in the streets that Margaret Thatcher is dead.

Such hypocrites.Whos celebrating in the streets? Certainly no one on this forum.

[Livia]

WTF, Saddam Hussein brought about the Iraq war by INVADING KUWAIT and trying to steal their oil. Are you F-ing kidding me? How the F can you blame Thatcher for that??

Quite so, Alex. Actually Thatcher, as far as conflict is concerned, is mostly remembered for the Falklands conflict, which saw almost the whole country supporting the action. Conversely, people took to the streets to voice their protest about the invasion of Iraq and Tony Blair ignored them and took us to war on a lie.

Some people are just making stuff up to suit their agenda.

[lostalex]

Whos celebrating in the streets? Certainly no one on this forum.

Well there is plenty of celebration going on in the Guardian comments sections. And plenty of people took to the streets yesterday in the UK to celebrate her death.

[Kizzy]

WTF, Saddam Hussein brought about the Iraq war by INVADING KUWAIT and trying to steal their oil. Are you F-ing kidding me? How the F can you blame Thatcher for that??

Please don't misquote me alex, that was a quote from the Guardian not me, and I would suppose there is more to this that you or I are aware of.. and that was the reasoning behind that comment?
You don't get your point over more effectively if you start effing and jeffing either you know..

[hijaxers]

Ding dong the witch is dead ! Hooray - i had a double vodka to celebrate !
Just how much (millions) is this gonna cost the tax payer - Its disgraceful

[GiRTh]

Well there is plenty of celebration going on in the Guardian comments sections. And plenty of people took to the streets yesterday in the UK to celebrate her death.There are always a few idiots.

[Kizzy]

Quite so, Alex. Actually Thatcher, as far as conflict is concerned, is mostly remembered for the Falklands conflict, which saw almost the whole country supporting the action. Conversely, people took to the streets to voice their protest about the invasion of Iraq and Tony Blair ignored them and took us to war on a lie.

Some people are just making stuff up to suit their agenda.

Whereas Thatcher took us to war in the Falklands on principle. I'm sure that was cold comfort to any mother whose son was fighting?
However that was not the issue raised by alex was it, could the part we played be in selling weapons to tyrants?
Some people have to accept that there is no merit in silly posturing, facts are facts and they like the truth will out.

[lostalex]

Ding dong the witch is dead ! Hooray - i had a double vodka to celebrate !
Just how much (millions) is this gonna cost the tax payer - Its disgraceful

A lot less than the diamond jubilee cost the tax payers, and unlike the Queen, Thatcher was CHOSEN by the PEOPLE of Britain in a democratic election.

[GiRTh]

A lot less than the diamond jubilee cost the tax payers, and unlike the Queen, Thatcher was CHOSEN by the PEOPLE of Britain in a democratic election.She was chosen three times. I dont see the point you're trying to make here. Are you saying we deserved what she did cuz we elected her? I might point firstly, not me cuz I wasnt old enough and secondly, she left office over 20 years ago and the world has changed a great deal since then. The world has changed so much in the last 5 years never mind 20.

[the truth]

Why is everyone blaming Mrs Thatcher for the state of the country today? Labour had several years since she left, to put things right (as they say ) but they didn't ,they continued using her policies, why?

because they were even worse
she lead us in the worng direction and they just continued to march on blindly until the whole economy fell off a cliff.

[lostalex]

She was chosen three times. I dont see the point you're trying to make here. Are you saying we deserved what she did cuz we elected her? I might point firstly, not me cuz I wasnt old enough and secondly, she left office over 20 years ago and the world has changed a great deal since then. The world has changed so much in the last 5 years never mind 20.

no, i'm saying she deserves a burial. you can have whatever opinion you like about her policies, but she served the Uk far more than the Queen ever has, and she was at least elected. So to bitch about the cost of her funeral seems stupid compared to the cost of other UNDEMOCRATIC institutions (like the royal family) in the UK which receive far more public funding.

[the truth]

no, i'm saying she deserves a burial. you can have whatever opinion you like about her policies, but she served the Uk far more than the Queen ever has, and she was at least elected. So to bitch about the cost of her funeral seems stupid compared to the cost of other UNDEMOCRATIC institutions (like the royal family) in the UK which receive far more public funding.

She is ONLY getting a state funeral because she was a servant of the very rich...The single greatest politician in british possibly world history, is David Lloyd george....He got no state funeral , because he was a servant of the poor.

[GiRTh]

no, i'm saying she deserves a burial. you can have whatever opinion you like about her policies, but she served the Uk far more than the Queen ever has, and she was at least elected. So to bitch about the cost of her funeral seems stupid compared to the cost of other UNDEMOCRATIC institutions (like the royal family) in the UK which receive far more public funding.She did not serve the UK at all. She served herself, her friends and people she liked cuz they had loads of money.

I think the idea of privatising her funeral has got to be the way forward. Then give it to the lowest bidder so they cut costs to the bone and give her the best funeral for the lowest price. Its what she would have wanted. In fact its what she would have done and indeed did do.

[Lee.]

A lot less than the diamond jubilee cost the tax payers, and unlike the Queen, Thatcher was CHOSEN by the PEOPLE of Britain in a democratic election.

*chosen by the people of ENGLAND

Scotland do not vote Tory and never will

[Jesus.]

They wanted to cremate her, but the lady's not for burning.

[Redway]

Livia and Alex are right.

[the truth]

It was only the scottish oil that saved our economy in the late 1970s early 1980s anyway and look how the scots were repaid, with enormous unemployment and huge rises in the costs of living under thatcher who doubled vat , out it on more goods, increased fuel taxes, increased national insurance and of course the whammy of the compulsory poll tax for everyone regardless of wealth or poverty.....of course the scots were good enough to fight and die for her army, but of course the regiment duly got disbanded a few years later, whilst the queens of course remained. the poor working class are treated like s**t on the shoes of the mega rich and powerful and thatcher and tony bliar simply speeded up this process

[Marsh.]

The number of times lostalex has brought the subject of the Queen up and been corrected about the money funded to them and still spews the same absolute nonsense every single time.

Do a bit of research before making yourself look stupid.

[Marsh.]

I find it hilarious that the same people that condemned Americans for celebrating the death of Osama Bin Laden, are the same people happily celebrating in the streets that Margaret Thatcher is dead.

Such hypocrites.

The same people? Who are these exactly?

[the truth]

The same people? Who are these exactly?

a few dozen idiots in a poor area, compared to the millions who celebrated bin laden. its all in very poor taste and it actually brings you down to the level of your opponent if not lower. Id much rather those who oppose thatcher simply argue their case without all this attention seeking abuse. i feel immense sympathy for those millions of working class who she destroyed. their communities will never recover not in 1000 years.

[hijaxers]

SO a few morons turn up, were confronted by police and a ruck breaks out. This represents every person who is indifferent to her death?

It wasn't a few morons turning up and getting confronted

It was actually a party to celebrate her death - as per the police boot boys went way over the top yet again and have dived in way too heavy handed

Easton Bristol - turning into hell due to the police

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/09/article-2306165-1930F554000005DC-808_306x436.jpg
Liverpool

[Marsh.]

a few dozen idiots in a poor area, compared to the millions who celebrated bin laden. its all in very poor taste and it actually brings you down to the level of your opponent if not lower. Id much rather those who oppose thatcher simply argue their case without all this attention seeking abuse. i feel immense sympathy for those millions of working class who she destroyed. their communities will never recover not in 1000 years.

I was referring more the fact that Alex proposed the same people calling America were the exact same people effectively dancing on Thatcher's grave.

Just wondered where he found this extraordinary detail.

[arista]

In Thatchers Early Days
as Chemist for a Company she helped invent
Mr.Whippy Ice Cream
puffed up with air, no less.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2048960/Margaret-Thatcher-invented-soft-scoop-ice-cream-.html

[hijaxers]

In Thatchers Early Days
as Chemist for a Company she helped invent
Mr.Whippy Ice Cream
puffed up with air, no less.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2048960/Margaret-Thatcher-invented-soft-scoop-ice-cream-.html

yes exactly make money outta poor little kids and give em half of what they expected for their money

[hijaxers]

My God you talk some Sh*t.

couldn't agree with ya more - what totally misinformed twaddle !

[Vicky.]

Watching the news now, seems Durham miners are planning a party for the day of her funeral :S

Bit tasteless really.

[lostalex]

I was referring more the fact that Alex proposed the same people calling America were the exact same people effectively dancing on Thatcher's grave.

Just wondered where he found this extraordinary detail.

as i stated before, it is the same people from the same political side that was so disgusted that Americans would celebrate the death of ANYONE, all human life is sacred they said. The same people (glenn greenwald) that is defending this celebration of Thatcher's demise.

If you don't understand what i'm saying then you obviously don't follow politics at all.

[arista]

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/4/8/1365456662820/Steve-Bell-09.03.2013-013.jpg

[Omah]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22079749

The funeral of Baroness Thatcher will take place on Wednesday, 17 April, Downing Street has announced.

The 87-year-old former prime minister died on Monday, after suffering a series of strokes.

The funeral ceremony, with full military honours, will take place at London's St Paul's Cathedral, following a procession from Westminster.

The Queen, accompanied by the Duke of Edinburgh, will attend the service, Buckingham Palace said.

Lady Thatcher will not have a state funeral but will be accorded the same status as Princess Diana and the Queen Mother.

A ceremonial funeral is one rung down from a state funeral - normally reserved for monarchs - and requires the consent of the Queen.

WTF ..... :mad:

I predict a riot ..... :idc:

[arista]

WTF ..... :mad:

I predict a riot ..... :idc:


"Will the haters try to wreck Maggie's send-off?
Police plan massive security operation
'True Blue' for Baroness Thatcher's"

[Patrick]

Whos celebrating in the streets? Certainly no one on this forum.

http://oi50.tinypic.com/14yaamr.jpg

:lovedup:

[Vanessa]

Watching the news now, seems Durham miners are planning a party for the day of her funeral :S

Bit tasteless really.

That's not very nice. We should always respect the dead. :(

[hijaxers]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22079749



WTF ..... :mad:

I predict a riot ..... :idc:

Oh yes ! why the hell should the British public pay for her funeral , i'd chuck her on a bonfire.
We have how many tory millionaires ? Let those rich basts pay for it !
The cost of this debarcle will cause riots !

[Josy]

That's not very nice. We should always respect the dead. :(

No we dont always need to respect the dead Vanessa, do you respect Hitler?

Everyones entitled to express an opinion however I agree that there are people taking things too far and the partys etc are tasteless.

[jackc1806]

Ding Dong the witch is dead is Number 2 on iTunes and Number 1 on Amazon. I would say its gonna be Number 1 - gonna be awkward for whoever does the BBCR1 Chart Show now...

[Vanessa]

No we dont always need to respect the dead Vanessa, do you respect Hitler?

Everyones entitled to express an opinion however I agree that there are people taking things too far and the partys etc are tasteless.

I know, but we should show some respect for her family.

[Patrick]

Patrick you're like 12 and hate people based on their nationality. Please don't call me ignorant, it's laughable. They were members of the IRA, hence the terrorist claim (not to mention their retaliation three years later in Brighton). "A few rights" =/= Northern Irish succession to Irish rule.

Of their five demands:



Only #3 and #4 were reasonable.


You can literally go and ******, how dare you - you might of been able to get a few laughs and talk me down when it came to me taking the piss out of Americans [years back], but don't for one second think you know anything more than MY country's history, than I do.

They weren't terrorists. They were heroes. If you're going to label them as 'terrorists' you may aswell call the British ******ing Army 'terrorists' too, instead of being as far up their asses as England is.

And sorry, but just who exactly are you - to deem which of their demands were 'reasonable'? You may think you are somebody on this forum, and may be more educated than me when it comes to Music and a few other things - but you're in no position to even try and justify the ignorance Thatcher took in 1981. It was vile.

To turn your back, and be as bitter and sinister to human beings - all of whom where imprisoned without trial - is a sick thing to do, all because they weren't giving in to the brutal British rule.

[hijaxers]

I know, but we should show some respect for her family.

Her family that couldn't be bothered to come back to Britain even though they knew she was about to go to hell ? Her son should be in jail and the baggage aided and abtetted him - he never lived up to her expectations and instead of condemming him she stood up for him - talk about 2 sets of rules

[Glenn.]

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j303/GlennDines123/MichealJacksonPopcorn.gif

[Sticks]

Re all those rejoicing, If I may quote from

John Donne
(24 January 1572 - 31 March 1631 / London, England)

No Man Is An Island

No man is an island,
Entire of itself.
Each is a piece of the continent,
A part of the main.
If a clod be washed away by the sea,
Europe is the less.
As well as if a promontory were.
As well as if a manor of thine own
Or of thine friend's were.
Each man's death diminishes me,
For I am involved in mankind.
Therefore, send not to know
For whom the bell tolls,
It tolls for thee.
John Donne

[Novo]

Re - all those supporting the IRA, If i may quote from

David Theodore Purdy
(13 August 1992 - Present day / Bootle - Liverpool, England

When I was young I had no sense
I bought a flute for fifty pence
The Only tune that I could play was **** the Pope and the IRA.

[joeysteele]

She is ONLY getting a state funeral because she was a servant of the very rich...The single greatest politician in british possibly world history, is David Lloyd george....He got no state funeral , because he was a servant of the poor.

Well they claim it is not a state funeral in fact but in likely presentation it will appear to be so.

I consider it not acceptable if it is, that any public funding goes to this funeral, if they want a lavish affair,let the Conservative party and their backers fund it, it will help ease their consciences for the way they stabbed her in the back in 1990.

I also as a UK citizen am very disappointed that the Queen and Prince Philip will be attending this funeral too.
I also do not find that appropriate or acceptable.They should not be there in my opinion,it sends the wrong message altogether.

I don't however have any liking at all for those planning parties for the day of her funeral or the revelling in her death in the streets.
She does have a family that is true,who equally have shown scant regard for the pain she caused others while she was PM.I am not bothered about them either.
I do however believe in respect for the dead, she was a fellow human being, a pretty cruel and uncompromising one when she had power but that was decades ago now, she has now passed away and I afford full respect to the dignity of her as a human being as to that.

She hasn't had power for over 20 years, so for me, she was now little more than a privileged citizen with a title.
I don't agree with these funeral plans at all,I see no reason whatsoever for the Forces to play any role at all in it too.

[Lee.]

That's not very nice. We should always respect the dead. :(

Respect? RESPECT her?? Ha! That will be ****ing right.

I wouldnt go out to celebrate her death and I fo agree some people are taking their hatred of her too far, but I didnt have anything good to say about her in life, nor will I in death.

[Glenn.]

I was just going through my photo bucket and found this
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j303/GlennDines123/attachment_zps2719fe68.jpg

[hijaxers]

[QUOTE=Glenn;5928260]I was just going through my photo bucket and found this
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j303/GlennDines123/attachment_zps2719fe68.jpg[QUOTE]

Trout face - even worse trout body

[Vicky.]

No we dont always need to respect the dead Vanessa, do you respect Hitler?

Everyones entitled to express an opinion however I agree that there are people taking things too far and the partys etc are tasteless.

Respect? RESPECT her?? Ha! That will be ****ing right.

I wouldnt go out to celebrate her death and I fo agree some people are taking their hatred of her too far, but I didnt have anything good to say about her in life, nor will I in death.

Indeed.

[Brother Leon]

Lol at celebrating in the streets though. Though when Bush dies I wouldn't be surprised if i was first on the streets handing Out expensive champagne to people I don't know :joker:

[hijaxers]

Lol at celebrating in the streets though. Though when Bush dies I wouldn't be surprised if i was first on the streets handing Out expensive champagne to people I don't know :joker:

Umm Bush - isn't that something that needs waxing !

[Redway]

Her family that couldn't be bothered to come back to Britain even though they knew she was about to go to hell ? Her son should be in jail and the baggage aided and abtetted him - he never lived up to her expectations and instead of condemming him she stood up for him - talk about 2 sets of rules

Hell doesn't exist, sadly.

[InOne]

I hope this doesn't end up overshadowing the more important issues in the country at the moment. As someone said earlier, it's a nice deflection from the bedroom tax and the benefit reforms. She's dead and that's that.

[Kizzy]

In the UK we are in the main rather stoic and it takes a lot to stir the public into voicing anything as a unit... This has, the floodgates have opened and it is maybe too due to the recent reforms that the pressure valve is set to blow across the country.

[Lee.]

I hope this doesn't end up overshadowing the more important issues in the country at the moment. As someone said earlier, it's a nice deflection from the bedroom tax and the benefit reforms. She's dead and that's that.

Precisely.. fling the auld goat down an old mine and be done with it. What we save on this state like funeral could be put towards the NHS or education or the elderly or shiz

[lily.]

Well i was born in 1976 and live in Shropshire and I admired her,so I dont know what that tells you.
Doesn't tell me much to be honest lol.

Terrorists? :laugh: They're prisoners of war.
They were murderers. Fact. Sugar-coat it however you like, but that's the plain truth.

*chosen by the people of ENGLAND

Scotland do not vote Tory and never will
This^

Re - all those supporting the IRA, If i may quote from

David Theodore Purdy
(13 August 1992 - Present day / Bootle - Liverpool, England
lol



There are some interesting posts in this thread. Out of curiosity.. is lostalex American or British?

[InOne]

He's the all American boy, lily.

[lily.]

Interesting.

[Marsh.]

as i stated before, it is the same people from the same political side that was so disgusted that Americans would celebrate the death of ANYONE, all human life is sacred they said. The same people (glenn greenwald) that is defending this celebration of Thatcher's demise.

If you don't understand what i'm saying then you obviously don't follow politics at all.

Then might I suggest you explain your points instead of firing off random melodramatic statements with no clue as to what the hell you're referring to.

I jumped to that conclusion because you are quite the generalizer on this forum.

[Nedusa]

Well they claim it is not a state funeral in fact but in likely presentation it will appear to be so.

I consider it not acceptable if it is, that any public funding goes to this funeral, if they want a lavish affair,let the Conservative party and their backers fund it, it will help ease their consciences for the way they stabbed her in the back in 1990.

I also as a UK citizen am very disappointed that the Queen and Prince Philip will be attending this funeral too.
I also do not find that appropriate or acceptable.They should not be there in my opinion,it sends the wrong message altogether.

I don't however have any liking at all for those planning parties for the day of her funeral or the revelling in her death in the streets.
She does have a family that is true,who equally have shown scant regard for the pain she caused others while she was PM.I am not bothered about them either.
I do however believe in respect for the dead, she was a fellow human being, a pretty cruel and uncompromising one when she had power but that was decades ago now, she has now passed away and I afford full respect to the dignity of her as a human being as to that.

She hasn't had power for over 20 years, so for me, she was now little more than a privileged citizen with a title.
I don't agree with these funeral plans at all,I see no reason whatsoever for the Forces to play any role at all in it too.

Well said, I agree why are the Armed forces going to be in attendance at her funeral, I heard her coffin was going on a gun carriage ...why ??? What the hell has she got to do with the armed forces.

As for the royal family attending particularly the Queen well I think that's over the top too. My opinions re thatcher are posted in this thread and I make no bones about my intense dislike for this woman and the damage she has done to our country and millions of people's lives. I would be happy to keep her on a slab until November 5th and build the biggest bonfire on parliament square and celebrate the day in style..!!!!

[Ninastar]

No we dont always need to respect the dead Vanessa, do you respect Hitler?

Everyones entitled to express an opinion however I agree that there are people taking things too far and the partys etc are tasteless.

i think there's a small difference between margret thatcher and hitler...

what people are doing is disgusting. if she had killed thousands, i could understand... but a hated PM getting this much stick... it's disgusting.

[Marsh.]

Yeah, the Hitler comparison is quite an exaggeration.

[Lee.]

To say in Josy s favour, I don't think she was comparing Hitler's atrocities with Thatchers. She was trying to say that if we have reson to dislike a person when alive, those feelings don't change just because that person dies.

[Redway]

i think there's a small difference between margret thatcher and hitler...

what people are doing is disgusting. if she had killed thousands, i could understand... but a hated PM getting this much stick... it's disgusting.

It's not often I agree with you but you have it spot on. :hugesmile:

I can understand if it was Osama bin Laden or Hitler but Margaret Thatcher didn't do much that David Cameron and all the other politicians making a complete mess of Britain haven't.

[Ninastar]

i can understand that, but I think it's disgusting for people to do what they are doing. She's got bloody kids, grandchildren... family.

[Redway]

Exactly. Think of how her relatives must feel right now.

[Kizzy]

If you hold a position as a public servant you have to accept the weight of public opinion on you.
She didn't directly kill anyone I will give her that.

[Redway]

If you hold a position as a public servant you have to accept the weight of public opinion on you.
She didn't directly kill anyone I will give her that.

Yes, but isn't it heartless to celebrate her death when her loved ones are going through ****ing hell right now?

[joeysteele]

The way I took Josy's comment was that in response to some post saying you should respect the dead, all Josy pointed out was Hitler due respect too.
It was merely a highlighting that not all the dead maybe are due respect,nothing meant as offensive to or that Margaret Thatcher was to be compared to Hitler, she never said Margaret Thatcher even acted like Hitler.

All she was doing was pointing out that they were both now dead and if you should respect all dead, should we too respect Hitler.

I doubt Margaret Thatcher was really a witch but she has been called that on here.

I got Josy's comment and saw no offence in it at all.

[Kizzy]

Yes, but isn't it heartless to celebrate her death when her loved ones are going through ****ing hell right now?

Stop swearing, it is not heartless, they had no loyalty to her and my guess is they are showing as much compassion for her in death as thatcher did herself to millions in life.

[Redway]

Stop swearing, it is not heartless, they had no loyalty to her and my guess is they are showing as much compassion for her in death as thatcher did herself to millions in life.

Exactly - your guess. You don't know for sure how they feel right now, so stop assuming things.

[hijaxers]

Yes, but isn't it heartless to celebrate her death when her loved ones are going through ****ing hell right now?

Leave it out we've already been through this - her beloved twins knew she she was on the off and decided not to come back to Britain ! and say ta rah !
Her son who everyone seems to overlook - is a crook and more than 1 country would like to lock him up -- poor little grieving lad - he'd be in jail if it wern't for Maggie the meglo bailing him out ! and more than once. He had to stay away so as not to shame his poor ole ma ma

[Marsh.]

Exactly - your guess. You don't know for sure how they feel right now, so stop assuming things.

Pardon me, but isn't that what you just did?

You assumed her children are going through hell, when another poster has pointed out that she was ill for a while and 2 of her children didn't bother to come into the country to see her.

[the truth]

as far as Im concerned she came into a britain that was a mess....and she had to fix it. labour were a disaster as usual with their 90% taxes and massive government, thatcher fixed that but she went too far and found no balance.
in the end she fixed things in the short term (5 to 10 years) but damaged the country hugely in the long term
any leader could sell off all the crown jewels, all the utilities all the transport etc
she did this it make a very tiny number of people mega rich and made the rest poor.
however she did defeat the far left which was necessary in many ways...however some of the far left was there for a reason, to regulate the economy and in particular protect workers rights. balance is key.
I also think she didnt do enough for small businesses and working clas people. as stated the more than doubling of vat enslaved the working classs and small business people, the fuel duty rises on the back of BP going private enslaved us all to fuel and hit more businesses, she increased regulation and paper work for small businesses too, the national isnurance rises hit the poor, the collapse of industry hit all the poorer working class areas.

inflation destroyed industry....she didnt find a balance, eventually inflation was forced down, she did eventually bring down interest rates. unemployment was an all time high at 3.2 million. long term jobs lost forever. I liked her beliefs on being thrifty and not wasteful I was 100% with her on that. I can also say my experince in the nhs was better in the 80s than now. nowadays there is a frightening pass the buck culture, over inflated immoral chasm at the heart of the nhs.

she was a champion of the mega rich...nearly alll the people praiisng here are the mega rich , the argument against socialism is a cartoon caricature. before socialism, you had a few thousand landowners who owned the UK, they enslaved and exploited the workers. they paid them a pittance, there was barely any health and safety either. tragedy followed tragedy. millions of poor men were sent to die in foreign fields in unwinnable wars.

all these clones like bliar and dave cameron have done is rubber stamp her radical agenda

she was the original, the person who moved us to the right, but she privatised the wrong things and deregulated the wrong areas, she took her eye off the elite financiers yet watched the little man with a magnifying glass.

regardless if you like her or not, each area needs to be studied in the cold light of day.

finally this she was a woman etc etc is sooooo boring ......we know she was a woman, yet she didnt have a chip on her shoulder about alleged oppression. she did what any smart person does, she played the hand she was dealt. she used her female wiles when necessary, but ultimately she use dher intelligence and experience. her biggest influence was in fact 2 men, her beloved dad and her beloved husband

I reject the simplifed drivel all men want to stop women like her achievce. theese men proved this is a lie. women and working class and disabled were simply way behind the rich men 100 years ago. it was simple class and economics. thatcher would never have introduced positive discrimination as she believed simple honest straight forward competition and straight forward arguing will see the best person rise to the top

I also reject this business of calling her a masculine leader because she attacked the belgrano. that us sexist pure and simple to imply war like aggression is purely male and not a female instinct. forget gender judge her on the issues.


overall she was a better PM than blair and brown and heath. but ultimately I saw her as a short term winner, but long term the nation was in many ways the loser.

[Kizzy]

Exactly - your guess. You don't know for sure how they feel right now, so stop assuming things.

Ok I will rephrase, it is my considered opinion....

[Glenn.]

Bringing the royals into the discussion isn't relevant lostalex.

[Omah]

No we dont always need to respect the dead Vanessa, do you respect Hitler?

Application of Godwin's Law ..... :pipe:

[lostalex]

Bringing the royals into the discussion isn't relevant lostalex.

It is relevant actually when you are talking about what tax payers money pays for. It is relevant when you have the tax payers paying for the royals celebration be it the jubilee or even Diana's funeral. If the tax payers have to pay for that stuff, then they should also be paying for the ceremonies for the ELECTED officials of the country.

To say it's not relevant is silly. Of course it's relevant to compare tax payers paying for a rainy jubilee down the river to celebrate the royals, but people are complaining about the tax payer also giving a democratically elected state leader a proper send off?

How is that not relevant? it's putting things into perspective.

[hijaxers]

Bringing the royals into the discussion isn't relevant lostalex.

Exactly

[hijaxers]

It is relevant actually when you are talking about what tax payers money pays for. It is relevant when you have the tax payers paying for the royals celebration be it the jubilee or even Diana's funeral. If the tax payers have to pay for that stuff, then they should also be paying for the ceremonies for the ELECTED officials of the country.

To say it's not relevant is silly. Of course it's relevant to compare tax payers paying for a rainy jubilee down the river to celebrate the royals, but people are complaining about the tax payer also giving a democratically elected state leader a proper send off?

You're unreal - get clued up eh !

[Marsh.]

Again, lostalex, educate yourself about money where the royal family is concerned before spouting your mouth off.

Forget the historical stuff, but what's relevant now in the 21st century.

Thatcher got the send off she deserved when even her own party turned against her.

[Kizzy]

She does not deserve, warrant, or even want this drain on already drained resources.

[hijaxers]

It is relevant actually when you are talking about what tax payers money pays for. It is relevant when you have the tax payers paying for the royals celebration be it the jubilee or even Diana's funeral. If the tax payers have to pay for that stuff, then they should also be paying for the ceremonies for the ELECTED officials of the country.

To say it's not relevant is silly. Of course it's relevant to compare tax payers paying for a rainy jubilee down the river to celebrate the royals, but people are complaining about the tax payer also giving a democratically elected state leader a proper send off?

How is that not relevant? it's putting things into perspective.
Oh yeah i'd like to add - how much security will be needed for her - most of the massive budget ? No one wanted to throw paint bombs at Diana - `get real please

[lostalex]

Oh yeah i'd like to add - how much security will be needed for her - most of the massive budget ? No one wanted to throw paint bombs at Diana - `get real please

I realize you were being a bit flippant and sarcastic in that response, but the truth is you'd be SHOCKED by how much the security for the Jubillee cost.

[the truth]

most people are of their time, maggie would be laughed out of office nowadays. but it needed someone strong to change the uk in 1979. sadly she then started to believe the hype and became pretty ignorant and totally lacking in any sense of empathy....her driver said she only ever cried once and those were tears of self pity when she was thrown out. no tears for the millions of industtrial workers and their families? no tears for pinochets victims? etc

[Redway]

Pardon me, but isn't that what you just did?

You assumed her children are going through hell, when another poster has pointed out that she was ill for a while and 2 of her children didn't bother to come into the country to see her.

Fine, but it's only natural to suggest that death may cause distress to relatives and friends. It's a horrible thing to do regardless, throwing parties over someone's passing.

[Kizzy]

Fine, but it's only natural to suggest that death may cause distress to relatives and friends. It's a horrible thing to do regardless, throwing parties over someone's passing.

I think that they are both well aware their mother was not held in that high a regard by much of the UK.
Seeing the strength of feeling doesn't shock me and it won't shock them either.

[lostalex]

It's especially unsightly because this was an old woman. She hasn't been involved in politics for DECADES.

TO wait until someone is dead to behave this way, is especially appalling. She's been alive for the past 23 years since being out of office, why wait until she's dead to make your opinion known. It's just so ghetto. It really does make the people involved look so PETTY. ding dong the witch is dead, it's just so pathetic and hipster chic BS.

Have some class. seriously.

[Glenn.]

People's opinions haven't changed on her since she left office. Why would or should I say, why should they change.

People are only voicing their opinions on the woman in light of her death. Should we all just say rest in peace and praise the damn woman? No.

[Marsh.]

What makes you think people waited until she died to voice their opinions?

Her death has raised the subject again, people's opinions haven't changed.

[thesheriff443]

what will bad mouthing a dead old lady do or change?
answer, nothing.

[hijaxers]

Fine, but it's only natural to suggest that death may cause distress to relatives and friends. It's a horrible thing to do regardless, throwing parties over someone's passing.

Why is it horrible - esp when you've waited years - best not to bring up her family - son a crook - daughter gay

Less said the better on the the nasty Margaret front - no wonder she decided to hide in a hotel

[Redway]

People's opinions haven't changed on her since she left office. Why would or should I say, why should they change.

People are only voicing their opinions on the woman in light of her death. Should we all just say rest in peace and praise the damn woman? No.

For the umpteenth time, I said that expressing discontent with her tenure - and even herself - is fine. What I object to is the appalling treatment of the situation over the past two days. Throwing celebrations when this may be a hard time for family...really?

[Glenn.]

For the umpteenth time, I said that expressing discontent with her tenure - and even herself - is fine. What I object to is the appalling treatment of the situation over the past two days. Throwing celebrations when this may be a hard time for family...really?

I haven't condoned any of at behaviour. I was addressing another post.

I fail to see how throwing parties and celebrations over a dead woman will get anyone anywhere but I fully understand why.

[Marsh.]

Why is it horrible - esp when you've waited years - best not to bring up her family - son a crook - daughter gay

Less said the better on the the nasty Margaret front - no wonder she decided to hide in a hotel

How is her daughter being gay on the same wavelength as her son being a criminal?

[Jack_]

The celebrations are a difficult area for me. Personally speaking I don't think I could ever celebrate someone's death, I found it quite disturbing when people were rejoicing at the deaths of Osama Bin Laden and Gaddafi, they're still human beings at the end of the day with families and friends, and the same applies here - death is a very difficult aspect of life and I don't think there's cause for a party to be thrown no matter who the person is. But having said that I can understand why some people may be doing so, let's not forget how many people's lives this woman ruined, many of whom will have experienced decades of misery as a result of her policies. So I don't necessarily condone the celebrations, but I can understand the reasoning behind them. I'm not happy she's dead, but I'm not exactly sad either...I'm indifferent to it, and like I said, I don't think her death really changes anything, her legacy still lives on and we're still feeling the effects of her policies and ideology today, so it's not really going to change much.

Thatcher's legacy has been debated for years since she left office though, I actually got into a drunken debate (well, an agreeable discussion to be honest) with a random man on a night out on Saturday and it's freaked me out that this happened a day later, so it's not as if her passing has suddenly started people talking about her, it's just become more widespread which isn't really that surprising - it's like how people started buying Michael Jackson's music again when he died.

[Kizzy]

There is no room for sentiment, no rose tinted spectacles...And she I would think would fully respect this opinion.
If I thought for one second that anything she did was for the benefit of everyone in the UK I would think differently... Unfortunately I don't.

[Redway]

There is no room for sentiment, no rose tinted spectacles. ..And she I would think would fully respect this opinion.
If I thought for one second that anything she did was for the benefit of everyone in the UK I would think differently... Unfortunately I don't.

That's subjective and a mere matter of opinion.

[Jack_]

Excellent column by Russell Brand on Thatcher:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/09/russell-brand-margaret-thatcher?CMP=twt_gu

I found this bit particularly thought-provoking. Some fair points made:

There were sporadic resurrections. She would appear in public to drape a hankie over a model BA plane tailfin because she disliked the unpatriotic logo with which they'd replaced the union flag (maybe don't privatise BA then), or to shuffle about some country pile arm in arm with a doddery Pinochet and tell us all what a fine fellow he was. It always irks when rightwing folk demonstrate in a familial or exclusive setting the values that they deny in a broader social context. They're happy to share big windfall bonuses with their cronies, they'll stick up for deposed dictator chums when they're down on their luck, they'll find opportunities in business for people they care about. I hope I'm not being reductive but it seems Thatcher's time in power was solely spent diminishing the resources of those who had least for the advancement of those who had most. I know from my own indulgence in selfish behaviour that it's much easier to get what you want if you remove from consideration the effect your actions will have on others.

Is that what made her so formidable, her ability to ignore the suffering of others? Given the nature of her legacy "survival of the fittest" – a phrase that Darwin himself only used twice in On the Origin of Species, compared to hundreds of references to altruism, love and cooperation, it isn't surprising that there are parties tonight in Liverpool, Glasgow and Brixton – from where are they to have learned compassion and forgiveness?

[Marsh.]

Never thought I'd say this but I agree with Russell Brand. Truth in every word.

It always struck me as peculiar, too, when the Spice Girls briefly championed Thatcher as an early example of girl power. I don't see that. She is an anomaly; a product of the freak-onomy of her time. Barack Obama, interestingly, said in his statement that she had "broken the glass ceiling for other women". Only in the sense that all the women beneath her were blinded by falling shards. She is an icon of individualism, not of feminism.

Always strikes me as odd when people try to make her out to be a hero for women.

She was an icon of selfishness.

But I did like his way of eloquently expressing the fact that the "monster" more than likely died when she blubbed her way out of number 10 and on Monday a simple, frail, old lady died who spent many of her final days watering flowers.

But then, as kizzy said, she would most likely respect and not give two hoots about the street parties and strong opinions because she reinforced the "don't give a crap about others" attitude.

[Kizzy]

That's subjective and a mere matter of opinion.

Yes it is, this is the subject and that's my opinion redway.

[Redway]

Yes it is, this is the subject and that's my opinion redway.

The way you phrased that I thought you were saying that there's nothing subjective about it but fair enough if that's what you meant.

[lostalex]

The way you phrased that I thought you were saying that there's nothing subjective about it but fair enough if that's what you meant.

Just let it go Redway. i appreciate what you're saying, but I think there is a Bandwagon going on in here, and unless you're willing to jump aboard I think it's best to just leave them be.

You have been reasonable and coherent unlike most of the people in this thread. Just let them alone, let them enjoy their macabre parade.

[Marsh.]

I don't know why you have to dramatise everything Alex.

Kizzy had an opinion, Redway had another and they got their wires crossed. Nothing else to it.

[lostalex]

I don't know why you have to dramatise everything Alex.

Kizzy had an opinion, Redway had another and they got their wires crossed. Nothing else to it.

No, I'm not being dramatic. There is definitely palpable hostility towards anyone who isn't celebrating Baroness Thatcher's death in this thread.

[Kizzy]

Excellent column by Russell Brand on Thatcher:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/09/russell-brand-margaret-thatcher?CMP=twt_gu

I found this bit particularly thought-provoking. Some fair points made:

What clarity, I love this even though he is very wordy the directness of what he says shines through in his writing.

It is as I have said before a laissez faire ideology that drove thatcher.

''It was to these ideals of self-help and sturdy independence that Margaret Thatcher looked when, as Britain's prime minister from 1979 to 1990, she sought to revive the country's flagging fortunes. She called for a return to 'Victorian values' - by which she meant rolling back the powers of the state, lowering levels of direct taxation and encouraging people to stand on their own feet''

Except she got it totally wrong, far from allowing people to stand on their own two feet she pulled the rug from under so many the whole country fell on it's arse!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/trail/victorian_britain/education_health/laissez_faire_02.shtml

[Kizzy]

No, I'm not being dramatic. There is definitely palpable hostility towards anyone who isn't celebrating Baroness Thatcher's death in this thread.

No there is not... this is in serious debates and it is being debated if we all had the same viewpoint it would be a pretty shoddy debate...
Arista wanted us to express our feelings here, this is not simply a condolence thread is it?

[Niall]

It's sad that she died I suppose, but the damage she caused to this country is something that still deeply affects us to this day, so I can see why people might rejoice at her death.

Despite my own extreme dislike not only towards her policies and actions in government, but also to her as a person, I think celebrating the passing of someone in ways that have been seen in the past few days is in very poor taste indeed - this is someone's mother after all. I think a better reaction would be to offer none entirely. So I'm indifferent to all of this, as I'd much rather forget about her and the unfortunate period of time in which this country fell under her control.

[Scarlett.]

It's sad that she died I suppose, but the damage she caused to this country is something that still deeply affects us to this day, so I can see why people might rejoice at her death.

Despite my own extreme dislike not only towards her policies and actions in government, but also to her as a person, I think celebrating the passing of someone in ways that have been seen in the past few days is in very poor taste indeed - this is someone's mother after all. I think a better reaction would to offer none entirely. So I'm indifferent to all of this, as I'd much rather forget about her and the unfortunate period of time in which this country fell under her control.

Pretty much my feelings on the matter too, I can't wait for all this to blow over.

[Mystic Mock]

I hate most Politicians, and Margaret Thatcher may have had her bad sides, but was she really so bad that people are willing to celebrate her death? Shouldn't celebrations like that be saved for when people like Ian Huntley dies?

[James]

The Margaret Thatcher government's policies led fairly directly to the TV show, Big Brother starting.

I'm serious. See the 1990 Broadcasting Act and specifically the 25% independent production company quota, designed to promote more competition, that was imposed on channels which encouraged Endemol UK amongst others.

Also, of course, the setting up of Channel 4 which, as far as I understand it, has always used independent production.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_in_the_United_Kingdom#Independent_produ ction

[Kizzy]

If you think that's going to change my opinion you're wrong :idc:
Was that her parting shot then, what was that designed to achieve?

[Roy Mars III]

I may be repeating things here, but anyway: I was not a fan of people celebrating Bin Laden's death, and I am definitely not a fan of people celebrating Thatcher's death. No one has to feel remorse in her death, but celebrating the death of another human being no matter how bad, or evil, rubs me the wrong way.

I do find it funny though how American conservatives are hailing her as some kind of hero, when compared to what they want, she is probably much more to the left.

[lostalex]

I may be repeating things here, but anyway: I was not a fan of people celebrating Bin Laden's death, and I am definitely not a fan of people celebrating Thatcher's death. No one has to feel remorse in her death, but celebrating the death of another human being no matter how bad, or evil, rubs me the wrong way.

I do find it funny though how American conservatives are hailing her as some kind of hero, when compared to what they want, she is probably much more to the left.

obviously American conservatives are reacting to her foreign policies. They don't give a crap about her domestic policies. the fact is Thatcher was a staunch supporter of Democracy, and staunchly against Communism. That's what the 80's were about, and she was a key player in Reagan's successful push to end Communism and oppression in eastern europe and Russia.

And I don't think it's just American Conservatives that celebrate what Reagan and Thatcher did in that regard. Obviously Reagan's domestic policies were controversial here, and Thatcher's domestic policies were controversial in Britain, but SOME PEOPLE are not as insular as you, some people, look at things on a broader more global scale.

The whole world is not just America and the UK, just so you know.

[Roy Mars III]

obviously American conservatives are reacting to her foreign policies. They don't give a crap about her domestic policies. the fact is Thatcher was a staunch supporter of Democracy, and staunchly against Communism. That's what the 80's were about, and she was a key player in Reagan's successful push to end Communism and oppression in eastern europe and Russia.

And I don't think it's just American Conservatives that celebrate what Reagan and Thatcher did in that regard. Obviously Reagan's domestic policies were controversial here, and Thatcher's domestic policies were controversial in Britain, but SOME PEOPLE are not as insular as you, some people, look at things on a broader more global scale.

The whole world is not just America and the UK, just so you know.

Thank you for reminding me, I always seem to forget.

I was making a point about American conservatives who have been praising her for her economic policies in Britain if you happen to be watching Fox News or are living one the largest hot bed of economic conservatives in the world( as I do). I do not live in France, for example, so I did not make a comment about their media's attitude towards Thatcher death since I am not watching any French news reports at the moment.

Unlike some people, I don't go sprouting out **** about stuff I have no idea about. (I am referring to you here)

[lostalex]

Unlike some people, I don't go sprouting out **** about stuff I have no idea about. (I am referring to you here)

Well I don't do that, so you are just plain wrong again. That's like the fourteenth thing that you've been wrong about in this thread. You just keep on saying things that aren't true.

[Roy Mars III]

Well I don't do that, so you are just plain wrong again. That's like the fourteenth thing that you've been wrong about in this thread. You just keep on saying things that aren't true.

I've posted twice, so I must not be doing very good

[lostalex]

I've posted twice, so I must not be doing very good

well it seemed like more. :whistle:

[Omah]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-22087702

Australia's Foreign Minister Bob Carr has described comments made by Baroness Thatcher as "unabashedly racist".

In a conversation with her "in her retirement", Mr Carr said the former UK prime minister had warned Australia against Asian immigration.

She said "if we allowed too much of it we'd see the natives of the land, the European settlers (sic), overtaken by migrants", he said.

He said he had been "astonished" at the comments by Lady Thatcher, which were made while his Malaysian-born wife Helena was "standing not far away" but was "fortunately out of earshot".

"I couldn't believe it. It reminded me that despite, yes, her greatness on those big questions, the role of the state, the evil nature of the Communist totalitarianism, there was an old-fashioned quality to her that was entirely out of touch and probably explained why her party removed her in the early 90s."

He went on to recall: "I remember one thing she said as part of that conversation, she said: 'You will end up like Fiji.' She said: 'I like Sydney but you can't allow the migrants' - and in context she meant Asian migration - 'to take over, otherwise you will end up like Fiji where the Indian migrants have taken over.'

"I was so astonished I don't think I could think of an appropriate reply."

Thatcher to a T ..... :eek:

[billy123]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-22087702



Thatcher to a T ..... :eek:Some of her stances were truly shocking and out of touch.

I am trying my best to stay out of her domestic policies because to this day the suffering she caused always in areas that werent known as tory supporting areas by the way (she wasnt stupid enough to upset her own supporters too much she treated people who werent supporters as enemies) still rankles with me to this day and i dont want to go down that avenue on here i will just get angry.

Some of her foreign policy was just as vile.

She was a staunch supporter and pivotal in providing arms to Saddam Hussein in the Iraq-Iran conflict in the 80's so much so that Iraqs later invasion of Kuwait wouldnt have even been possible without the weapons she so eagerly sold to them. (she later strongly encouraged bush to intervene in the gulf crisis in 1990)

Later in 2002, she directly influenced former Labour Prime Minister Tony Blair’s decision to go to the war in Iraq by her July 17, article in the Wall Street Journal, titled “Don’t Go Wobbly”, in which she said: “It is clear to anyone willing to face reality that the only reason Saddam took the risk of refusing to submit his activities to U.N. inspectors was that he is exerting every muscle to build WMD (Weapons of Mass Destruction)”.


Another darkest aspects of her foreign policy that is her support for the Khmer Rouge, who are accused of killing an estimated 1.7 million people during their rule over Cambodia.

her staunch backing for the racist Apartheid regime in South Africa.
Her position on the South African revolution leader Nelson Mandela serves as a round-up on her political views.
In 1987 she described the African National Congress as “a typical terrorist Organisation” and branded Nelson Mandela as a "grubby little terrorist" while opposing anti apartheid sanctions against the white minority goverment of South Africa.
This garnered much support from the National front a neo-nazi organisation.
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/04/09/297321/thatcher-the-proapartheid-warmonger/

[billy123]

One of the indirect effect's the dirty bitch had by cutting nearly all funding to community,arts,museum projects was to cut off the music scene in the north and leave them alone to develop into some of the most influential bands of the last 30 years.

I love this song and its about trying to escape the daily grind of poverty and desperation caused by thatchers goverment by trying to find somewhere to escape to forget your troubles for a few hours. in this case a spot by the mersey in manchester.
(yes it runs through parts of manchester too and yes they are talking about the mines and drowning thatcher in the river)

poBedhb-gWQ
Lyrics:
River splashes against the rocks
And I scale the slope and hope the tracks won't
Lead me down to dark black pits or
Places where we fall to bits
If she were there I'd hold her down
I'll push her under while she drowns and
Couldn't breathe and claw for air
She doesn't care for my despair

Or is it me?
Or the one that's wrong (one that's wrong)
You see it in the sea
River cool's where I belong

In my Mersey paradise

As I stare an oil wheel comes
Sailing by and I feel like
Growing fins and falling in
With the bricks, the bikes, the rusty tin I'll
Swim along without a care
I'm eating sand when I need air you can
Bet your life I'll meet a Pike who'll
Wolf me down for tea tonight

I want to be
I want to be
Where the drownings are (drownings are)
You see it in the sea
River cool's where I belong

In my Mersey paradise

I want to be
Where the drownings are (drownings are)
You see it in the sea
River cool's where I belong

Oh yeah

I want to be
I want to be
Where the drownings are (drownings are)
You see it in the sea
River cool's where I belong

In my Mersey paradise

[Alf]

I've always loved that song definitely in my top 3 Roses songs (used to be my favourite when i was a teenager) never knew it was about Thatcher.

[lostalex]

I've always loved that song definitely in my top 3 Roses songs (used to be my favourite when i was a teenager) never knew it was about Thatcher.

what about this one?

QCt7RvEkK8s

[sooty]

I admire her guts.

Margaret Thacher was a great leader.

[Jesus.]

I may be repeating things here, but anyway: I was not a fan of people celebrating Bin Laden's death, and I am definitely not a fan of people celebrating Thatcher's death. No one has to feel remorse in her death, but celebrating the death of another human being no matter how bad, or evil, rubs me the wrong way.

I do find it funny though how American conservatives are hailing her as some kind of hero, when compared to what they want, she is probably much more to the left.

That's because everyone is to the left of modern American conservatives. They've completely white-washed Reagan's record on taxes, spending, and Iran.

I haven't celebrated her death, but do I think people are entitled to? Yes. She systematically destroyed families in this country, and not for one second did anyone tell her to stop because of the feelings of the family members she was making redundant, so I don't buy this "she's a mother, and a grandmother" argument (I know you're not using that, but I'm just making a wider point).

She went after such large groups of people in this country, and these people are entitled to remember what she put them through.

[Jesus.]

I admire her guts.

Margaret Thacher was a great leader.

Sooty, please. I sort of feel wrong disagreeing with you, but guts doesn't make a great leader. Compassion is far more important.

[lostalex]

That's because everyone is to the left of modern American conservatives. They've completely white-washed Reagan's record on taxes, spending, and Iran.

I haven't celebrated her death, but do I think people are entitled to? Yes. She systematically destroyed families in this country, and not for one second did anyone tell her to stop because of the feelings of the family members she was making redundant, so I don't buy this "she's a mother, and a grandmother" argument (I know you're not using that, but I'm just making a wider point).

She went after such large groups of people in this country, and these people are entitled to remember what she put them through.

Really? everyone is? Because I can name several far right very popular groups in Europe that are much more far right than the Republicans in the US...

Let's just start with the obvious... The Golden Dawn in Greece, the French National Front in France, ohhh, and looky here, UKIP and the BNP in the UK...

so don't tell me about far right political parties and try and make it sound like it's only America that has right wing crazies. Your right wing crazies make Sarah Palin look MODERATE.

You have people that are more right wing than US Republicans at an average Soccer game in Europe. The average professional soccer game in Europe puts the KKK to shame.

[AnnieK]

One of the indirect effect's the dirty bitch had by cutting nearly all funding to community,arts,museum projects was to cut off the music scene in the north and leave them alone to develop into some of the most influential bands of the last 30 years.

I love this song and its about trying to escape the daily grind of poverty and desperation caused by thatchers goverment by trying to find somewhere to escape to forget your troubles for a few hours. in this case a spot by the mersey in manchester.
(yes it runs through parts of manchester too and yes they are talking about the mines and drowning thatcher in the river)

poBedhb-gWQ
Lyrics:
River splashes against the rocks
And I scale the slope and hope the tracks won't
Lead me down to dark black pits or
Places where we fall to bits
If she were there I'd hold her down
I'll push her under while she drowns and
Couldn't breathe and claw for air
She doesn't care for my despair

Or is it me?
Or the one that's wrong (one that's wrong)
You see it in the sea
River cool's where I belong

In my Mersey paradise

As I stare an oil wheel comes
Sailing by and I feel like
Growing fins and falling in
With the bricks, the bikes, the rusty tin I'll
Swim along without a care
I'm eating sand when I need air you can
Bet your life I'll meet a Pike who'll
Wolf me down for tea tonight

I want to be
I want to be
Where the drownings are (drownings are)
You see it in the sea
River cool's where I belong

In my Mersey paradise

I want to be
Where the drownings are (drownings are)
You see it in the sea
River cool's where I belong

Oh yeah

I want to be
I want to be
Where the drownings are (drownings are)
You see it in the sea
River cool's where I belong

In my Mersey paradise

Great song...:worship:

[thesheriff443]

Sooty, please. I sort of feel wrong disagreeing with you, but guts doesn't make a great leader. Compassion is far more important.

so she should have showed more compassion to the terrorist?

[Jesus.]

Really? everyone is? Because I can name several far right very popular groups in Europe that are much more far right than the Republicans in the US...

Let's just start with the obvious... The Golden Dawn in Greece, the French National Front in France, ohhh, and looky here, UKIP and the BNP in the UK...

so don't tell me about far right political parties and try and make it sound like it's only America that has right wing crazies. Your right wing crazies make Sarah Palin look MODERATE.

You have people that are more right wing than US Republicans at an average Soccer game in Europe. The average professional soccer game in Europe puts the KKK to shame.

Alex behave. You know I think you're great, but stop being so paranoid about America. You're using far right groups in general, and UKIP are not to the right of the republicans. The party that tried to stop black people voting in the last election, and one of the primary candidates (Santorum) stopped just short of calling Obama a "government ******" on the campaign trail last time around.

The party that wants to build electric fences on the borders and is working with "pray away the gay" proponents. Lets not forget the support of the Ugandan tyrants who actively try to kill gay people.

The fact that you have to compare the republicans to fringe elements in Europe shows how crazy they are.

[Jesus.]

so she should have showed more compassion to the terrorist?

Who should have shown compassion to what terrorist? Your comment is too generic to mean anything.


Thatcher should have shown compassion to her own people.

[sooty]

Sooty, please. I sort of feel wrong disagreeing with you, but guts doesn't make a great leader. Compassion is far more important.

Good morning, JH

Well it is very difficult to change an opinion at my age you see.
I am an admirer ever since she became a Tory leader.

That 1978/9 strike,we had to use candle. We could not buy bread. I had to buy a cookery book to make bread. When the strike was over my husband said "Thank goodness for that!"
I remember many working class people (I have no right to vote) voted Tory for the first time because of the strike.

I am a 100% sheep, so I wish I could have her guts little bit:hugesmile:

[thesheriff443]

Who should have shown compassion to what terrorist? Your comment is too generic to mean anything.


Thatcher should have shown compassion to her own people.

im talking about the ira,
in your eyes she should have played mother! and invited everyone around for tea.
her own people! this is not the bible, it was a job a dirty job at times but she did it.

[lostalex]

Alex behave. You know I think you're great, but stop being so paranoid about America. You're using far right groups in general, and UKIP are not to the right of the republicans. The party that tried to stop black people voting in the last election, and one of the primary candidates (Santorum) stopped just short of calling Obama a "government ******" on the campaign trail last time around.

The party that wants to build electric fences on the borders and is working with "pray away the gay" proponents. Lets not forget the support of the Ugandan tyrants who actively try to kill gay people.

The fact that you have to compare the republicans to fringe elements in Europe shows how crazy they are.


right rRepublicans are sooo much more crazy religious and homophobic than Europeans... oh wait, wasn't it in PARIS that HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of people came out to protest AGAINST gay marriage? wasn't it at a soccer game that giving a nazi salute was explained away as just "passion" fopr the fans? can't remember the last time i saw any nazi salutes at any American sporting events, hmmm.

I'm not being dramatic, i'm telling you that Europe is just as if not MORE right wing than America. you don't seem to be able to comprehend that though... despite the evidence...

You need to stop believing the propaganda that Europe is more civilized or less bigoted than America, cause it ISN'T.

[Jesus.]

Good morning, JH

Well it is very difficult to change an opinion at my age you see.
I am an admirer ever since she became a Tory leader.

That 1978/9 strike,we had to use candle. We could not buy bread. I had to buy a cookery book to make bread. When the strike was over my husband said "Thank goodness for that!"
I remember many working class people (I have no right to vote) voted Tory for the first time because of the strike.

I am a 100% sheep, so I wish I could have her guts little bit:hugesmile:

The unions needed curbing, but not destroying. It was the unions that fought for our working conditions, that fought to get us holiday pay, who fought for reasonable working hours, safe environments, sick pay etc.

The unions changed conditions for working people, and they lost sight of that. Even then, they were fighting for better things for the workers in the country.

No one is fighting for workers anymore, which is why the government has free reign.

[lostalex]

You wanna talk about electric fences? look at the conversations about immigration in Europe, are you joking? To pretend that Europe is any more tolerant or less racist when it comes to immigration you MUST be joking.

[Jesus.]

right rRepublicans are sooo much more crazy religious and homophobic than Europeans... oh wait, wasn't it in PARIS that HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of people came out to protest AGAINST gay marriage? wasn't it at a soccer game that giving a nazi salute was explained away as just "passion" fopr the fans? can't remember the last time i saw any nazi salutes at any American sporting events, hmmm.

I'm not being dramatic, i'm telling you that Europe is just as if not MORE right wing than America. you don't seem to be able to comprehend that though... despite the evidence...

You need to stop believing the propaganda that Europe is more civilized or less bigoted than America, cause it ISN'T.

Allowing gay marriage in France is still the majority opinion. Republicans are supposed to be mainstream right wing (centre right). They are far right, and I'm not turning this into "I hate America". Parts of Europe were locked away to the modern world until relatively recently, and changing attitudes towards minorities is a relatively new phenomena in most places.

But the racist signs of the tea party, supporting the Bachmans, Santorums, Cantors, Perrys, Ryans etc, would never be seen at a conservative party rally in the UK, and I'm grateful for that.

I don't think America is anymore racist than anywhere else, it's more a comment on the fact that you only have a 2 party system. When a country holds itself up as the "greatest on earth" then it needs to be better than everywhere else, not equally as bad.

[billy123]

Anybody can only put their point forward on personal experience of thatchers reign i appreciate Sootys opinion she is right the lady had guts she put a lot right that needed putting right and fast.

But at the cost of millions of people if you were on the right end of her stick well done but she destroyed familys,towns and even citys economys when there was no need to be so brutal. Someone on here earlier on the thread said at least she hasnt killed thousands of people i beg to differ i dont have to watch the idiot box or desperately search the internet for facts.

All i had to do was watch and listen as a child while familys were torn apart and communitys were destroyed and people were forced into an early grave in poverty and utterly broken.

Will i celebrate her death? No not in public but inside yes.

Dont tell me what to think i know what i saw happen.

[thesheriff443]

nothing lasts for ever!
you can go thru life looking for someone to blame or you get on with it!

[Wildcat!]

I think Thatcher is viewed very differently, if you are british, than if you arent.
I have learned that, in the past couple of days, reading thoughts about her passing. She is some kind of hero, for foreigners, but leaves a bad taste in the mouth, for a lot of British people, and those non British, who looked behind the surface!

Just an observation of course. She is a polarizing historic figure. Thankfully, it is just that! history.

[lostalex]

Allowing gay marriage in France is still the majority opinion. Republicans are supposed to be mainstream right wing (centre right). They are far right, and I'm not turning this into "I hate America". Parts of Europe were locked away to the modern world until relatively recently, and changing attitudes towards minorities is a relatively new phenomena in most places.

But the racist signs of the tea party, supporting the Bachmans, Santorums, Cantors, Perrys, Ryans etc, would never be seen at a conservative party rally in the UK, and I'm grateful for that.

I don't think America is anymore racist than anywhere else, it's more a comment on the fact that you only have a 2 party system. When a country holds itself up as the "greatest on earth" then it needs to be better than everywhere else, not equally as bad.

Right, because you'd never hear a Brit calling the UK the greatest country on earth right?

Ohh wait, yes we did, for the entire year last year. The royal wedding, The diamond jubilee, and The olympics. Yea i'm pretty sure no other country has congratulated themselves more in one year than the UK did in 2012.

The nationalism in Europe is far greater than the nationalism in the US. (don't even get me started on french nationalism, or greek nationalism, or italian nationalism)

[Jesus.]

nothing lasts for ever!
you can go thru life looking for someone to blame or you get on with it!

That's quite reductionist. I think a lot of people have just cause to blame her for the way their lives turned out. Does it mean they stopped working and gave up? No, but it doesn't mean that they don't have a point.

[Jesus.]

right cause you've never hear a brit calling the UK the greatest country on earth right? or France? gimme a break. The nationalism in Europe is far greater than the nationalism in the US.

The difference is other countries don't actually promote themselves like that.

I'm sure lots of Brits think this is the greatest country on earth. I don't, but America markets itself that way.

If climate change ever makes Sweden warm, then the greatest country in the world debate is over for eternity.

You're wrong, Alex. America should be the democratic experiment it was founded to be. A beacon of hope to the rest of us, for what a truly secular democracy should look like.

The founders wouldn't recognise what America has become. By saying that, I'm not saying we're better, because we're not. I want American democracy to be the example that it was set up to be.

[lostalex]

The difference is other countries don't actually promote themselves like that.

I'm sure lots of Brits think this is the greatest country on earth. I don't, but America markets itself that way.

If climate change ever makes Sweden warm, then the greatest country in the world debate is over for eternity.

You're wrong, Alex. America should be the democratic experiment it was founded to be. A beacon of hope to the rest of us, for what a truly secular democracy should look like.

The founders wouldn't recognise what America has become. By saying that, I'm not saying we're better, because we're not. I want American democracy to be the example that it was set up to be.

right.. Uk would never promote themselves like that. ummm, did you watch the OLYMPICS??

The entire STAGE of the closing ceremony was in the shape of the British Flag.

Can you imagine what people would say if America made the entire stage into the shape of the American Flag? are you KIDDING me??

Get a grip, seriously.

[thesheriff443]

That's quite reductionist. I think a lot of people have just cause to blame her for the way their lives turned out. Does it mean they stopped working and gave up? No, but it doesn't mean that they don't have a point.

people that blame the prime minister at the time for their lifes being sh*t sums up those people.

[lostalex]

I'd just like to point out for the record that I loved the London olympics, I'm simply pointing out the hypocrisy of Jesus' posts.

[Jesus.]

people that blame the prime minister at the time for their lifes being sh*t sums up those people.

There is no reply to that Sheriff, and I don't mean that in a good way either. Think I'll just accept that you've won this debate and I'll move on.

[Jesus.]

I'd just like to point out for the record that I loved the London olympics, I'm simply pointing out the hypocrisy of Jesus' posts.

The Olympics is a world event that of course stretches over into national pride. There is no hypocrisy in my posts, Alex. Every time you see an American politician giving a speech they go on about how America is the greatest country in the world, and you compare that with an overly jingoistic sporting event?

OK.

[Kazanne]

I hate most Politicians, and Margaret Thatcher may have had her bad sides, but was she really so bad that people are willing to celebrate her death? Shouldn't celebrations like that be saved for when people like Ian Huntley dies?

Exactly my feelings Mock,all this hating on her will not solve anything,and how many times do people get called a 'rent a mob' when they show distain towards murderers etc,this is the same only she was a politition that did some things some thought was wrong and the hate is so ott,she's gone let her RIP,she did good for some not for others,that's it,done.

[Jesus.]

Exactly my feelings Mock,all this hating on her will not solve anything,and how many times do people get called a 'rent a mob' when they show distain towards murderers etc,this is the same only she was a politition that did some things some thought was wrong and the hate is so ott,she's gone let her RIP,she did good for some not for others,that's it,done.

It's only differing opinions that keep forums going. You do realise this, don't you?

[arista]

Parliament is Live from 2:30PM today
Labour MP's can have a go at Thatcher

Of course they will Skip
Blairs (featuring Brown)New Labour 13 years Neo Conservative time

[lostalex]

The Olympics is a world event that of course stretches over into national pride. There is no hypocrisy in my posts, Alex. Every time you see an American politician giving a speech they go on about how America is the greatest country in the world, and you compare that with an overly jingoistic sporting event?

OK.

Oh please, I could find a million Boris Johnson speeches BEFORE THE OLYMPICS about how London is the greatest city in the world and the UK is the greatest country in the world. Don't even pretend that I couldn't .

[Jesus.]

Oh please, I could find a million Boris Johnson speeches BEFORE THE OLYMPICS about how London is the greatest city in the world and the UK is the greatest country in the world. Don't even pretend that I couldn't .

Don't judge most of us, by the least of us. Boris is a twat. Like I said - a jingoistic sporting event.

[GiRTh]

The funeral's gonna be interesting. There will almost certainly be a demonstration but will there be sufficent police to break it up before it gets out of hand.

The fact that people are making comments like the one I've just made tells you so much about the way people think of her. The hate may be OTT but its easay for anyone to see that Thatchers policies have had a devastating effect on some people in this country. It was not just a few pwople either her policies affected whole communities.

Of course we should respect her passing but people cant forget what she did. They cant forget, they wont forget.

[arista]

The funeral's gonna be interesting. There will almost certainly be a demonstration but will there be sufficent police to break it up before it gets out of hand.

The fact that people are making comments like the one I've just made tells you so much about the way people think of her. The hate may be OTT but its easay for anyone to see that Thatchers policies have had a devastating effect on some people in this country. It was not just a few pwople either her policies affected whole communities.

Of course we should respect her passing but people cant forget what she did. They cant forget, they wont forget.


Yes Paint Bombs being made.

[Niamh.]

Excellent column by Russell Brand on Thatcher:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/09/russell-brand-margaret-thatcher?CMP=twt_gu

I found this bit particularly thought-provoking. Some fair points made:

That was a good read, thanks Jack

[lostalex]

Don't judge most of us, by the least of us.

Oh what a novel concept. I hope it sinks in. (i've been saying that for the past 2 hours, but okay, let's pretend that it's your idea)

[joeysteele]

I personally think the re-calling of parliament is ridiculous and why should Labour MPs say anythting particularly nice as to the policies of the Conservative Govt of the 80s that created then over 3 million unemployed.

Blair has said only decent things as to Margaret Thatcher and so will many Labour MPs, does everyone, now she has died, have to change all they have thought and believed in for decades as to her period of PM, I would have voted for her in 1979 had I even been born and old enough but I would not have voted for her again after that from all I have read as to her time as PM.

I respect her as a person in death but I think this overblown funeral is near obscene and it should be funded fully by the Conservative party and her own estate.
No military should be involved and the Queen should not be attending either.

As I said elsewhere, Margaret Thatcher herself would be likely saying her phrase, ''no,no.no'', to this planned funeral too for her.

What next, the same for Tony Blair for being the 2nd longest PM in the 20th/21st century too and for Iraq,(surely not).
Again no to that too.

[Kazanne]

Parliament is Live from 2:30PM today
Labour MP's can have a go at Thatcher

Of course they will Skip
Blairs (featuring Brown)New Labour 13 years Neo Conservative time

Spot on Arista,let them vent it wont change anything,they had their chance they didn't take it.

[arista]

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Media/Pix/pictures/2013/4/10/1365583648550/Margaret-Thatcher-and-Rup-007.jpg
King Rupert with the Thatch

[GiRTh]

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Media/Pix/pictures/2013/4/10/1365583648550/Margaret-Thatcher-and-Rup-007.jpg
King Rupert with the ThatchShe was the first to get his empire behind the government. More reason to hate her.

[arista]

She was the first to get his empire behind the government. More reason to hate her.


No BSkyB
employs alot British of people
and the Times , The Sun




And Sky3-D is Utter Bliss


[Rupert has paid personal tribute
to Lady Thatcher, saying that she was responsible
for many of his "defining moments as a businessman",
including the destruction of the unions in his newspaper empire
and the creation of Sky TV.]


Yes Unions had to go.

[joeysteele]

I hardly think any association with Rupert Murdoch is now anything credible to any politician including Margaret Thatcher.
I would consider him and a good part of his corrupt empire totally toxic now.

[Jesus.]

No BSkyB
employs alot British of people
and the Times , The Sun




And Sky3-D is Utter Bliss


[Rupert has paid personal tribute
to Lady Thatcher, saying that she was responsible
for many of his "defining moments as a businessman",
including the destruction of the unions in his newspaper empire
and the creation of Sky TV.]


Yes Unions had to go.

So misguided.

[arista]

I hardly think any association with Rupert Murdoch is now anything credible to any politician including Margaret Thatcher.
I would consider him and a good part of his corrupt empire totally toxic now.



No thats changed now.

[joeysteele]

No thats changed now.

I don't think that's the case at all.
The Sun particularly is as vile now as it ever was before the scandal hit it and the News of the World.
Any politician with any decency would steer clear of Murdoch,it amazes me that he is still allowed to control any of our media.

[arista]

I don't think that's the case at all.
The Sun particularly is as vile now as it ever was before the scandal hit it and the News of the World.
Any politician with any decency would steer clear of Murdoch,it amazes me that he is still allowed to control any of our media.

Our Media is the Bloated BBC
he has feck all to do with that.

[joeysteele]

Our Media is the Bloated BBC
he has feck all to do with that.

Now arista, you know my feelings as to the BBC, I am restraining myself from even starting on that one.

[lily.]

Excellent column by Russell Brand on Thatcher:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/09/russell-brand-margaret-thatcher?CMP=twt_gu


That was a good read. Who knew Brand could actually make some sense.

I liked this part:

The blunt, pathetic reality today is that a little old lady has died, who in the winter of her life had to water roses alone under police supervision. If you behave like there's no such thing as society, in the end there isn't.


I'm not glad she's dead. I won't celebrate. I didn't like her policies. I think she was bad for the UK. But, I'm not her. I have compassion. I can't celebrate someone else's death, no matter who it is. She was no longer influential in UK politics, so I see no reason to be excited that she's dead. She only ever appeared to care about herself, and she has died alone. If anything, there's a lesson to be learned in that.

[GiRTh]

That was a good read. Who knew Brand could actually make some sense.He's got a ghost writer who does that stuff for him.

[Niamh.]

He's got a ghost writer who does that stuff for him.

Does he really? :suspect:

[lily.]

That's disappointing G.

I was starting to change my opinion on him, but I won't bother lol

[Niamh.]

I need proof of this Girth, you're ruining my life :bawling:

[GiRTh]

I need proof of this Girth, you're ruining my life :bawling:OK. I'll see if I can find out his name.

[Jack_]

Russell Brand writes a lot of great columns. I still remember the very poignant one about Amy Winehouse.

[GiRTh]

Russell Brand writes a lot of great columns. I still remember the very poignant one about Amy Winehouse.Ghost writer wrote that one too.

[Niamh.]

It sounds just like how Russell speaks though

[Josy]

i think there's a small difference between margret thatcher and hitler...

what people are doing is disgusting. if she had killed thousands, i could understand... but a hated PM getting this much stick... it's disgusting.

Yeah, the Hitler comparison is quite an exaggeration.

You both read my post and completely failed to understand it, I was in no way comparing Margaret Thatcher with Hitler, my post doesnt say that at all, I was pointing out to Vanessa that I think it's absurd to say every one that has died deserves respect, I will never respect someone in death that I had no respect for in life.

To say in Josy s favour, I don't think she was comparing Hitler's atrocities with Thatchers. She was trying to say that if we have reson to dislike a person when alive, those feelings don't change just because that person dies.

Yes thats what my post was trying to point out Lee.

i can understand that, but I think it's disgusting for people to do what they are doing. She's got bloody kids, grandchildren... family.

I care as much about her family as she cared about the familes suffering under her policies back she was PM.

Christ by what we know so far her own immediate family hardly even cares...

But like I have already posted in this thread I think the street parties and celebrations are OTT and tasteless.

[Kizzy]

Inevitable as they are, sadly it's playing right into the hands of the media who will spin this as they did the student protests and make the whole issue irrelevant by posting someone swinging from a war memorial...
That image was used to maximum effect it served to nullify any genuine grievance they had by painting all students as disrespectful yobs... This is exactly what will happen here, front page of the Mail next Thursday guaranteed.

[arista]

It sounds just like how Russell speaks though


But thats how a Ghost Writer gets the job
they have to sound like him to get the Cash.

[Niamh.]

But thats how a Ghost Writer gets the job
they have to sound like him to get the Cash.

I refuse to believe it Arista :hmph:

[arista]

Inevitable as they are, sadly it's playing right into the hands of the media who will spin this as they did the student protests and make the whole issue irrelevant by posting someone swinging from a war memorial...
That image was used to maximum effect it served to nullify any genuine grievance they had by painting all students as disrespectful yobs... This is exactly what will happen here, front page of the Mail next Thursday guaranteed.


Yes Kizzy and the front page of the Guardian
next thursday.

Feel The Force

[Me. I Am Salman]

MARGARET Thatcher's death caused paroxysms of confusion on Twitter where some users were apparently left with the impression that the singer Cher had died.
Members began posting comments on the microblogging site with the hashtag #nowthatchersdead soon after the news was announced.

But it was apparently misinterpreted and led to a flurry of Tweets suggesting it had upset the pop star's fans.

Comedian Ricky Gervais attempted to set the record straight, writing: "Some people are in a frenzy over the hashtag #nowthatchersdead.

"It's 'Now Thatcher's dead'.

"Not, 'Now that Cher's dead'".

Other Twitter users sought to reassure followers. One wrote: "It's OK people, @cher is still very much alive".

:joker::joker:

[arista]

http://25.media.tumblr.com/e1fc0f9e48c85af3bc7968e15ae6a605/tumblr_mkyg7j5MFI1rqt30co1_500.png

oops



We know
its posted on this thread

[Kazanne]

Front of the Daily Mail,shows people to young to even know what her policies were,imo they are just bored and fed up and want something to get angry about,disgraceful they pick someones death and most likely her funeral.

[arista]

Front of the Daily Mail,shows people to young to even know what her policies were,imo they are just bored and fed up and want something to get angry about,disgraceful they pick someones death and most likely her funeral.

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2013/4/9/231375/default/v1/daily-mail-1-329x437.jpg


Yes Very True Kaz

[Kizzy]

WbOZwr5WLww

[Kazanne]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2013/4/9/231375/default/v1/daily-mail-1-329x437.jpg


Yes Very True Kaz

If you have a Waitrose card you get this paper free(that or the Guardian)I wouldn't buy this myself but cant refuse a freebie can you?:hugesmile:

[hijaxers]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2013/4/9/231375/default/v1/daily-mail-1-329x437.jpg


Yes Very True Kaz

Thats my mate in that picture

[arista]

Thats my mate in that picture


Does he like the Fame?

[arista]

WbOZwr5WLww



Yes Kizzy a great clip.

ITV or Ch4 or even Ch5

need to show some of the episodes
like the '87 time


Tebbit loved his puppet

[hijaxers]

Does he like the Fame?

Not seen him yet _ cops had him locked up for hours !