Margaret Thatcher has Died of a stroke [Speak your mind]

[Redway]

Why not just say you had researched it a lot then rather than post members names saying that they think something so you would rather take that side...seems a strange thing to do to me instead of posting your own views?

I used that bit to justify me saying that it really isn't a fact that her policies were anything seeing as kizzy didn't want to take my word for it all.

[Redway]

You said you'd rather support Thatcher because of Shaun and Livia's opinion on the matter because you value their opinion?

Got to disagree about kizzy. I don't see how she's presenting her opinion as fact. :conf:

It is, I could find much more evidence to prove my perspective but...Yep.

Oh, if all you're interested in is opinion that's fine, I prefer facts personally.

If that's not what she meant then I apologise to her but that's the way she came across to me, saying she could find evidence to prove her statements and all.

[Josy]

But you just said in your last post....you were posting that to support them now your saying something completely different :laugh:

And I think Kizzy's just posting her own opinion like most other people in here.

[Kizzy]

Rather that quoting others opinions as fact, I prefer to post opinions that are fact.
Anytime you want some supporting evidence for my posts give me a shout :)

[Redway]

Rather that quoting others opinions as fact, I prefer to post opinions that are fact.

See that's the thing, though. Perhaps I didn't word myself properly but my point is that you can't really prove anything and that opinions differing to yours are perfectly valid. I apologise if you're not meaning to present your opinion as fact but that's the way it's coming across right now...

[AnnieK]

This last page has made my head hurt...:laugh:

[Marsh.]

I think kizzy means she can find facts to support her opinion.

As in, her opinion that Thatcher was a terrible leader for the country is backed up by lots of evidence to support it.

You don't provide evidence to support your opinion that she was a good leader because according to one of your posts you think that because Shaun and Livia do?

Ergo she uses facts to form her opinion, you use other people's opinions to make yours. See? :laugh:

[Kizzy]

See that's the thing, though. Perhaps I didn't word myself properly but my point is that you can't really prove anything and that opinions differing to yours are perfectly valid. I apologise if you're not meaning to present your opinion as fact but that's the way it's coming across right now...

I can back my opinions with facts, that's the difference.

[Redway]

I think kizzy means she can find facts to support her opinion.

As in, her opinion that Thatcher was a terrible leader for the country is backed up by lots of evidence to support it.

You don't provide evidence to support your opinion that she was a good leader because according to one of your posts you think that because Shaun and Livia do?

Well that's that clarified then. I need to stop getting my wires crossed. :laugh:

[Redway]

I can back my opinions with facts, that's the difference.

Fair enough..I misunderstand what you meant. :p

[arista]

Thatcher was a Revolutionary

She helped Essex Man.


Shop Floor Workers loved her
thats why so many Labour Voters
kept her in power.

It was Trade Union Leaders
that hated her.

[Kizzy]

Thatcher was a Revolutionary

She helped Essex Man.


Shop Floor Workers loved her
thats why so many Labour Voters
kept her in power.

It was Trade Union Leaders
that hated her.

She made an attitudinal shift is all, the Basildon man thought because he had moved from the east end and bought his council house he was now middle class and obliged to vote tory :joker:

[Cherie]

I think kizzy means she can find facts to support her opinion.

As in, her opinion that Thatcher was a terrible leader for the country is backed up by lots of evidence to support it.

You don't provide evidence to support your opinion that she was a good leader because according to one of your posts you think that because Shaun and Livia do?

Ergo she uses facts to form her opinion, you use other people's opinions to make yours. See? :laugh:

Is Ergo a new member.:love:

[arista]

She made an attitudinal shift is all, the Basildon man thought because he had moved from the east end and bought his council house he was now middle class and obliged to vote tory :joker:


Yes Everyone even Trade Union people
could make Big Money if they worked hard
under Thatcher.


Trade Unions got Destroyed.


Utter Bliss

[Kizzy]

Yes Everyone even Trade Union people
could make Big Money if they worked hard
under Thatcher.


Trade Unions got Destroyed.


Utter Bliss

Well only the trade unions of the industries she destroyed obv.....

[arista]

N1rJW2P2rFY

[Kizzy]

e1l1XGiXgo0

[Redway]

The video's not showing?

[arista]

SyDBsMi7WE8&feature=endscreen

[Kizzy]

gXuRvthgn4U
gP4xuPbZ4Ic

[Marsh.]

Is Ergo a new member.:love:

:laugh:

[arista]

16 punks were arrested yesterday in London.

And 2 walls got paint remarks on them

Ref: BBC London Local News

[Cherie]

16 punks were arrested yesterday in London.

And 2 walls got paint remarks on them

Ref: BBC London Local News

Life in the City. Punk.

[Jack_]

8VRRWuryb4k

Knew she'd said this and know a bit about Section 28 but didn't know there was a video of the speech. Vile. And people wonder why that song is being downloaded by some...

Margaret Thatcher was no poster girl for gay rights

Feel free to admire her on the economy and Falklands. When it comes to LGBT issues, she threw gay kids like me to the wolves

Many gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender people are sincerely and deeply mourning Margaret Thatcher's passing. The gay entrepreneur Ivan Massow called her "a poster girl for gay rights" and said that, despite her being "pilloried for letting section 28 go through on her watch … her attitude to homosexuality is often misunderstood". Indeed, Pink News described her just as a "controversial figure on gay issues", noting that the artists Gilbert and George described her as a "gay icon".

It's illogical to think that people of a shared sexuality would also share politics. Thatcher's awesome belief in herself and in her vision for Britain, her commitment to the rights of the individual and sweeping economic policies, found her many like-minded gay supporters. But, despite the Boadicea-like Commons performances, the hair, handbag and all the other hard to resist superficialities, the reality is that Thatcher presided over and took advantage of the most devastatingly homophobic time in recent British history.

If you were a gay man in the mid to late 80s – let alone a teenager, as I was – you were one of the unlucky ones. The kick in the teeth was far from metaphorical. When a terrifying new disease began cutting down gay men like rows of corn, the media, most vociferously led by the Sun's then editor, Kelvin MacKenzie, launched a campaign of deeply unpleasant propaganda. Knowing that hated Labour politicians such as Ken Livingstone were actively supportive of gay equality, the rightwing media seized their opportunity. "Pulpit *****" were hounded from the church, playground workers were exposed as "lesbians plotting to pervert nursery tots", celebrities such as Kenny Everett, Russell Harty and Freddie Mercury were hounded as diseased vermin. Features such as "***** in pop" (written by one P Morgan) were run, and the News of the World published the home address of "EastBenders" star Michael Cashman.

The Sun reported a joke that went like this: "A gay man goes home to his parents and tells them he's got good news and bad news. The bad news is I'm gay. The good news is I've got Aids." One senses that MacKenzie reached his zenith when he reported calls by Tory politicians to recriminalise gay sex or to, as one councillor suggested, gas gay men to "fight Aids".

One would imagine anyone with an ounce of humanity would want to distance themselves from this as much as possible. Thatcher used it to make political capital. The 1987 election saw Tory ad campaigns trying to portray Labour as actively trying to pervert children. One billboard showed a line of young men wearing badges such as "Gay pride" and "Gay sports day" with a slogan, "This is Labour's camp. Do you want to live in it?".

After winning the 1987 election Thatcher knew she was on to a winner. She denounced local education authorities for teaching children that "they have an inalienable right to be gay" and brought in the hated clause, then section, 28, which outlawed the promotion of homosexuality as "a pretend family relationship". Despite the fact that no one was ever prosecuted under it, the law made teachers feel they could not tell kids that if they were gay, it was OK. It effectively scared them from talking about being gay even when children were being physically attacked.

Some gay men who knew her have said she liked gay people individually. The journalist and former Conservative MP Matthew Parris says that Thatcher told him she appreciated the difficulty he had in coming out to her. The day before she resigned she awarded Ian McKellen a knighthood. When Norman Fowler set up a high-profile campaign to educate the public about HIV and Aids she didn't stop him – good of her. Most symbolically, they say, she was one of the few Tories to vote for the decriminalisation of homosexuality in 1967. Whoop-dee-doo. One of the arguments of that time was that gay people should be free from threat of prison so they could "seek treatment". More telling is the fact that when Lady Young led the campaign against Tony Blair's scrapping of section 28 in 2000, Thatcher made her support known by sitting next to Young in the Lords for the vote.

I never met her. Maybe Thatcher didn't hate gay people that she knew. This makes it more despicable that she was willing to throw us – including kids like me, desperate for help in 1988 when section 28 came in – to the wolves for the sake of a few poll points. What she did do was inflict huge damage on a community that desperately needed support, and smashed down any possibility of supporting confused children or educating them about how to not catch HIV.

Twenty-five years later we've just had the highest rates of HIV infection among gay and bisexual men, we're blighted by significantly higher levels of drug and alcohol misuse, and teachers tell me that some of their colleagues are under the misapprehension that section 28 is still in force. Even in 2013, two schoolchildren – that we know of – have taken their own lives probably partly because of homophobic bullying. Feel free to admire her economic policy, her retaking of the Falklands, whatever, if you so wish, but when it comes to LGBT issues, to see Thatcher as anything other than a poster girl for the wrongs done to gay people is a wilful delusion.

The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/10/margaret-thatcher-poster-girl-gay-rights)

[lostalex]

Just out of curiosity Jack, can you name any political leader in the 80's that was a friend to gays? Homophobia back then was EVERYWHERE. It was ubiquitous. Was there anyone in that time period who was on the right side of history when it comes to LGB rights?

[Kizzy]

1984

Chris Smith, MP for Islington South in London, first MP to come out as gay while in office.

http://www.artxii.com/at_home/history_of_lesbian_gay_and_bisexual_equality/default.asp

In the UK the 70's and 80's were a time of real change and acceptance... Unless you were a bigot like thatcher obv...

[lostalex]

1984

Chris Smith, MP for Islington South in London, first MP to come out as gay while in office.

http://www.artxii.com/at_home/history_of_lesbian_gay_and_bisexual_equality/default.asp

In the UK the 70's and 80's were a time of real change and acceptance... Unless you were a bigot like thatcher obv...

was he re-elected after he came out?

[Kizzy]

Ask google?..

[lostalex]

Ask google?..

are you really going to make me point out your hypocrisy after you harassed me the other night in that madonna thread?

[Kizzy]

Pipe down alex :pipe:...
here sulky :)
Chris Smith has been changing the face of British public life for 20 years. He was Britain's first openly gay MP, the first gay cabinet minister and is now the first political figure to admit to being HIV-positive, during a career which saw him become one of the country's key decision-makers.

'My name is Chris Smith. I'm the Labour MP for Islington South and Finsbury, and I'm gay'.

It was with those words, his hands shaking as he spoke, that Smith finally publicly acknowledged the sexuality he had kept secret for a decade, and became Britain's first MP to come out of the closet. His unparalleled honesty earned him a five-minute standing ovation.

It was November 1984 and the then opposition spokesman on National Heritage had accepted an invitation to address a protest meeting in Rugby called after the Conservative-run local council had just abandoned a policy which outlawed discrimination on the grounds of sexuality.

When New Labour won its first election landslide in 1997, Smith became the first gay cabinet minister in political history when Tony Blair made him National Heritage Secretary, although the so-called 'Ministry of Fun' was renamed the Department of Culture, Media and Sport weeks later.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2005/jan/30/uk.aids

[lostalex]

Pipe down alex :pipe:...
here sulky :)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2005/jan/30/uk.aids
i don't see the part that answers my question. please copy and paste it into the thread for me.

[Marsh.]

Harassment? :laugh:

Kizzy you naughty girl...

[lostalex]

how fascinating kizzy. did you hear that France recently legalized gay marriage? I wonder when the UK will catch up... maybe after yall are done dancing on Thatcher's grave, you can get down to real issues again. that would be cool.

[Kizzy]

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mddtphCQ0K1rr8wh0.gif

[lostalex]

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mddtphCQ0K1rr8wh0.gif

hmmm. I concur. Well played.

http://www.rcsinnovations.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/1dory.jpg

[Shaun]

my best friend wrote a rather concise demolition of her as an iconic figure :pipe: *is totally just attracting views for his blog*

http://reasoninrevolt.wordpress.com/2013/04/14/the-myth-of-margaret-thatcher/

[Kizzy]

Harassment? :laugh:

Kizzy you naughty girl...

http://i898.photobucket.com/albums/ac182/lovelessnikid/GIFS/zml6dfjpg.gif

[Kizzy]

my best friend wrote a rather concise demolition of her as an iconic figure :pipe: *is totally just attracting views for his blog*

http://reasoninrevolt.wordpress.com/2013/04/14/the-myth-of-margaret-thatcher/

This looks really good, will have a proper looksy tomorrow, sent it to my offspring too :)

[Brother Leon]

http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/758906836.jpg

Might aswell bump as it's her funeral tomorrow. Banner from today.

[Lee.]

Is anybody going to watch her funeral?

[Kazanne]

Is anybody going to watch her funeral?

I will if I can.

[MTVN]

I will be glued to the screen

[Jack_]

George Galloway talking in parliament now :worship:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/tv/bbc_parliament/watchlive

[Marcus.]

i cant
be at red cross

[Lee.]

I'm off tomorrow, but I certainly won't be watching. I'd actually rather see if I can fill my bath up with piss and bathe in it for the duration of her funeral :)

[Jack_]

'They can't silence me, some members are not for turning' :joker:

[Mystic Mock]

I'm not watching her Funeral.

[billy123]

George Galloway talking in parliament now :worship:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/tv/bbc_parliament/watchlive

Good post.
jesus he doesnt bow to the tory scum does he good on him.

"David Cameron has actively avoided ministers question time session for 4 weeks running" sounds like a coward to me.

[Jack_]

'An attempt at the canonisation of this woman'

Bang On Right

[/arista]

[MTVN]

Galloway might be a decent orator when it comes to rhetoric and cliches but the man is a complete tool and always has been

[lostalex]

I always have CNN on in the backround, so I'm sure they will cover it.

I have to say She was before my time. So I don't have the same strong feelings for her as many of our older members do.

But i feel the same way as i felt about the Ronald Reagan funeral. I don't really remember him, i knew he was controversial, but i respected his service.

I supposse it will be similar when George W Bush dies.

He was just a man, and people seem to try to make certain people (like reagan,thatcher, blair, and bush) into icons, but to me they are just people.

[Jack_]

Well I personally think this gross adulation of the woman has gone too far, tax payers shouldn't be funding it, the state broadcaster shouldn't be censoring those who oppose her and PM's questions should not be cancelled

[Jack_]

And the chimes of Big Ben being stopped, forgot about that. Labour MP just mentioned it

[Jack_]

'This government is out of touch with the people out there'

Aint that the truth

[lostalex]

Well I personally think this gross adulation of the woman has gone too far, tax payers shouldn't be funding it, the state broadcaster shouldn't be censoring those who oppose her and PM's questions should not be cancelled

Gross adulation?? lol, I think you mean gross demonization.

[Jack_]

LOL as if all of this is her being demonised

[lostalex]

LOL as if all of this is her being demonised

you really don't think she's being demonized at all? so calling her a witch, you don't think that's demonization?

[Jack_]

Yeah, I was referring to the government and media's gross adulation which is being imposed upon us with these excessive plans for her funeral (I thought I made that clear in the post you quoted), not anyone else's view or how they're treating her...

All we're hearing is endless praise for the woman as if we're all supposed to put up and shut up, the 'demonisation' is being silenced by those in power if anything

[AnnieK]

It will be interesting to see how any demonstrations are handled tomorrow...

[lostalex]

It will be interesting to see how any demonstrations are handled tomorrow...

I hope it goes well. I think causing riots over a dead body would be pretty ****ing disgusting. But i'm sure if there are any disturbances, the rioters would still blame a dead woman for their bad behavior. the lack of calcium as children maybe will be the excuse. "Maggie stole my milk and made me act like a tit!"

[Z]

Meh, if people want to picket her funeral, they're perfectly entitled to do so, but I think it's disgusting when the Westboro Baptist Church do it and I think it's disgusting that people are doing it to Margaret Thatcher. Her family and friends ought to be able to grieve for her in peace, I think it's ridiculous the government are spending all this money on her and I think it's ridiculous that people are celebrating her death. Margaret Thatcher the public figure ceased to be when she had her first dramatic slip into Alzheimer's, that's all I have to say on the matter.

[lostalex]

If you believe that you live in a democracy then you cannot blame Thatcher for anything. If you believe that you live in a democracy then surely the entire parliament and by extention the entire peoples of the UK are responsible for everything. That is what a democracy is. She was no dictator, she was no communist Zsar. She was just one cog in the mechanism of democracy, and all of the people of the UK had a say in it.

To place blame on a leader in a democracy is like placing blame on a single molecule of water after a flood.

[Jack_]

The problem is is that I feel with every new element of the ceremony announced, it is fuelling the fire of those planning to demonstrate and it wouldn't surprise me if this has almost been done deliberately to score further political points out of the inevitable bashing the press are going to give them. I certainly expected demonstrations, celebrations and great divide when she died but I did not for a second expect that the funeral of an old woman and highly divisive PM would be hijacked by her former party for political purposes. This has turned into nothing more than an enforced idolisation of this woman and her ideologies that live on and are not at all part of the past, and not only do I think it has gone way too far, I actually think it's quite disrespectful to her when she didn't seem to request a lot of what is planned anyway.

[Z]

If you believe that you live in a democracy then you cannot blame Thatcher for anything. If you believe that you live in a democracy then surely the entire parliament and by extention the entire peoples are responsible for everything. That is what a democracy is. She was no dictator, she was no communist Zsar. She was just one cog in the mechanism of democracy, and all of the people of the UK had a say in it.

To place blame on a leader in a democracy is like placing blame on a single molecule of water after a flood.

I agree with the general point you're making but I don't think that's necessarily true of Britain (or America, though it's not what we're discussing) because I think the First Past The Post style of voting is deeply flawed, there are lots of cases in Britain where the winning party didn't even have the majority of the electorate's votes, they just had the greatest percentage, e.g. a party could win with 40% of the votes with the other 60% being split up between different parties - you end up with a government that less than half the people wanted.

Margaret Thatcher was a strong leader at a time when Britain needed a strong leader. I think Britain's overdue a strong leader. The last one we had was Tony Blair and I don't think it'll be long before we see another strong candidate rise up from the back benches and take up the mantle. The Prime Minister represents the country and as such is liable for the pitfalls of their government. You can blame Thatcher for what she did, but you can't blame her for being in control of a system that existed before and after her time.

[lostalex]

It's my understanding that she wasn't even of sound mind in the past few years. She was a fragile old woman who certainly worked harder in a decade of leadership being prime minister than the Queen as in her entire lifetime. And unlike the Queen, Thatcher was chosen by the PEOPLE.

[lostalex]

Margaret Thatcher was a strong leader at a time when Britain needed a strong leader. I think Britain's overdue a strong leader. The last one we had was Tony Blair and I don't think it'll be long before we see another strong candidate rise up from the back benches and take up the mantle. The Prime Minister represents the country and as such is liable for the pitfalls of their government. You can blame Thatcher for what she did, but you can't blame her for being in control of a system that existed before and after her time.

wise words. i agree.

[Brother Leon]

Gonna give TV a skip tomorrow tbh. No way am I going to watch hours of Thatcher bum licking. If **** kicks off I'll get some popcorn and watch though.

[lostalex]

Gonna give TV a skip tomorrow tbh. No way am I going to watch hours of Thatcher bum licking. If **** kicks off I'll get some popcorn and watch though.

and you feel no shame in admitting that at all?
you do realize how SADISTIC that sounds right?

I can't be bothered with honoring a public servant of my country, but if things get messy, I'll be happy to watch the riots!

Stay classy dude. :thumbs:

[Josy]

Alex seriously, this woman has always caused a massive divide in opinions so I don't see why you feel the need to try to vilify anyone that has a negative attitude about her or this carnival show of a funeral?

I also wont be turning on my tv to listen to all the bull**** tomorrow, and if anything does happen at the protests (which btw I don't agree with in any way but people are entitled to protest of they want to) then the media and everyone else that is shoving this funeral down the publics throat should share some of the blame, it's actually as if they are trying to provoke people.

[lostalex]

Alex seriously, this woman has always caused a massive divide in opinions so I don't see why you feel the need to try to vilify anyone that has a negative attitude about her or this carnival show of a funeral?

I also wont be turning on my tv to listen to all the bull**** tomorrow, and if anything does happen at the protests (which btw I don't agree with in any way but people are entitled to protest of they want to) then the media and everyone else that is shoving this funeral down the publics throat should share some of the blame, it's actually as if they are trying to provoke people.

if you choose to not watch the ceremony, fine. that's vastly different than saying you'd happily watch some riots though.

[Josy]

if you choose to not watch the ceremony, fine. that's vastly different than saying you'd happily watch some riots though.

But the truth is if people hear that theres riots tomorrow they more than likely will turn the tv on to watch it.

[Brother Leon]

and you feel no shame in admitting that at all?
you do realize how SADISTIC that sounds right?

I can't be bothered with honoring a public servant of my country, but if things get messy, I'll be happy to watch the riots!

Stay classy dude. :thumbs:

Honestly? I feel no shame what so ever. Never had respect for her and that won't change just because she's passed away tbh. I'll tune in if it goes to ****, because that would at least be worth watching and far more important/worthy of TV Air time rather than the funeral and tributes for me.

[lostalex]

Well i hope there are no riots. Even if it does disappoint Leon.

[Brother Leon]

Show me where I said I want riots? I just said I'll watch it as that would actually be of some importance for me. The funeral and Thatcher in general won't be.

[lostalex]

Show me where I said I want riots? I just said I'll watch it as that would actually be of some importance for me. The funeral and Thatcher in general won't be.

well you said you'd pull out some popcorn to watch it. maybe taking out popcorn means something else in the UK... is popcorn some sort of rhyming slang that i don't get? cause i thought it meant you'd enjoy sitting down for a night of entertainment. like a movie.

[joeysteele]

you really don't think she's being demonized at all? so calling her a witch, you don't think that's demonization?

Hi Lostalex, I can take on board where you are coming from in your posts and you also know I respect your opinion too.

I would be the first to say that Margaret Thatcher was a strong leader of her party and PM too,a strong PM too but not in mostly the right ways.

On the International stage she was an incredible figure,no doubt about that, I wasn't born but near all my Family were supporters of her.
I can fully understand those not resident in the UK seeing her as this amazing leader and there is no doubting at all that she was really virtually adored in the USA.

However as I have watched this near canonisation of her over this last week and then really going into the policies she followed. I can see why a great part of the UK population are annoyed at all these over the top tributes,especially when they come from the 2 faced people in her party who were the ones who got rid of her, not the voters.

My gripe and also my fury at the near hijacking of this funeral by the current PM and his Govt has grown steadily over the last week.
I object 100% to a single pence of taxpayers funding to this funeral, her family are extremely well off, the Conservative party which was in effect her employer should have made the main contributions to this funeral and also the rich donors of that party too.
That would have been not only the right thing to do but also the decent thing to do when this Govt. is trying to take away from people on benefits hefty chunks of that benefit.

Funding the funeral that way would have eased a lot of the tensions and not increased the fury of those who were opposed to her policies and more to the point had suffered massively through loss of jobs and livelihoods because of them.

I see no reason for the pomp of this funeral, I am also furious the Queen is attending it too.
My Parents who were strong supporters of her at her height of power are also furious taxpayers are being told they are covering the costs of part of this funeral,never even being asked.
Yet the Govt sees fit to 'invite' celebrities to this funeral, again people who could also have made contributions to it, if they felt that strongly.

I feel myself,the people being demonised are those who have dared to speak out against the circus this funeral is becoming.
No dissenting voices allowed, all must toe the line and agree with whatever downing Street announces as to this event.

It is said, we should have respect for an old lady with a family and grandchildren who has died, if this funeral had refleceted that status rather than the pomp of her professional status then all would have been much less as to tensions.
Also though, respect has to be earned, respect doesn't come from telling people what they have to accept but by asking them.
That was not the way though of Margaret Thatcher when she was in power and it for certain is not the way of this Govt led by opportunist David Cameron and his nodding dog Nick Clegg.

I personally hold great respect for Margaret thatcher as a fellow human being,I hope she is at peace and that all goes well tomorrow.
I fear it may not however, and it is likely some people are likely going to get criminal records for their opposition and the way they express it as to this funeral

I also believe that is more likely because of the way this PM and his Govt has planned this whole event by increasing the tensions and anger rather than handling it well and setting out to relieve them.
For me I am strongly opposed to the Queens attendance at this funeral and the using of taxpayers funds for any part of it and no one will shut me up as to venting my spleen at that.

I do see where you are coming from and others who admired her,I fully respect your stance and theirs.
However politics is a divisive fact of life and just as those who admired Margaret Thatcher should be able to crow from the rooftops how wonderful they thought she was, then also those who had not a single bit of time for her should be able to have the right to voice their disagreement to that without being demonised and told they are being petty and disrespectful.

People who feel they cannot show respect to someone who in their eyes didn't earn their respect should not have to be turned into hypocrites and by silence give agreement to those doing all the 'how great she was' crowing.
Much of their crowing is false too since many of them were the backstabbers of her own party who destroyed her political career and time as PM of the UK anyway.

Sorry this is long, I do tend to go on a bit.

[lostalex]

I keep on seeing you guys saying she's being so lauded and canonized in the british media. I don't see it. maybe it's because I read the Guardian everyday, so maybe i'm not getting the full picture. I see basically only criticism.

Maybe that's my fault for thinking that the Guardian represents the UK.

I don't see evrything obviously, and i guess the Guardian isn't giving me a very accurate portrait of what's really going on in UK media about her.

[Jack_]

Hi Lostalex, I can take on board where you are coming from in your posts and you also know I respect your opinion too.

I would be the first to say that Margaret Thatcher was a strong leader of her party and PM too,a strong PM too but not in mostly the right ways.

On the International stage she was an incredible figure,no doubt about that, I wasn't born but near all my all Family were supporters of her.
I can fully understand those not resident in the UK seeing her as this amazing leader and therer is no doubting at all that she was really virtually adored in the USA.

However as I have watched this near canonisation of her over this last week and then really going into the policies she followed. I can see why a great part of the UK population are annoyed at all these over the top tributes,especially when they come from the 2 faced people in her party who were the ones who got rid of her, not the voters.

My gripe and also my fury at the near hijacking of this funeral by the current PM and his Govt,has grown steadily over the last week.
I object 100% to a single pence of taxpayers funding to this funeral, her family are extremely well off, the Conservative party which was in effect her employer should have made the main contributions to this funeral and also the rich donors of that party too.
That would have been not only the right thing to do but also the decent thing to do when this Govt is trying to take away from people on benefits hefty chunks of that benefit.

Funding the funeral that way would have eased a lot of the tensions and not increased the fury of those who were opposed to her policies and more to the point had suffered massively through loss of jobs and livelihoods because of them.

I see no reason for the pomp of this funeral, I am also furious the Queen is attending it too.
My Parents who were strong supporters of her at her height of power are also furious taxpayers are being told they are covering the costs of part of this funeral,never even being asked.
Yet the Govt sees fit to 'invite' celebrities to this funeral, again people who could also have made contributions to it, if they felt that strongly.

I feel myself,the people being demonised are those who have dared to speak out against the circus this funeral is becoming.
No dissenting voices allowed, all must toe the line and agree with whatever downing Street announces as to this event.

It is said, we should have respect for an old lady with a family and grandchildren who has died, if this funeral had refleceted that status rather than the pomp of her professional status then all would have been must less as to tensions.
Also though, respect has to be earned, respect doesn't come from telling people what they have to accept but by asking them, that was not the way though of Margaret Thatcher when she was in power and it for certain is not the way of this Govt led by opportunist David Cameron and his nodding dog Nick Clegg.

I personally hold great respect for Margaret thatcher as a fellow human being,I hope she is at peace and that all goes well tomorrow.
I fear it may not however, and it is likely some people are likely going to get criminal records for their opposition and the way they express it as to this funeral

I also believe that is more likely because of the way this PM and his Govt has planned this whole event by increasing the tensions and anger rather than handling it well and setting out to relieve them.
For me I am strongly opposed to the Queens attendance at this funeral and the using of taxpayers funds for any part of it and no one will shut me up as to venting my spleen at that.

I do see where you are coming from and others who admired her,I fully respect your stance and theirs.
However politics is a divisive fact of life and just as those who admired Margaret Thacher should be able to crow from the rooftops how wonderful they thought she was, then also those who had not a single bit of time for her should be able to have the right to voice their disagreement to that without being demonised and told they are being petty and disrespectful.

People who feel they cannot show respect to someone who in their eyes didn't earn their respect should not have to be turned into hypocrites and by silence give agreement to those doing all the 'how great she was' crowing.
Much of their crowing is false too since many of them were the backstabbers of her own party who destroyed her political career and time as Pm of the UK anyway.

Sorry this is long, I do tend to go on a bit.

Excellent post.

I keep on seeing you guys saying she's being so lauded and canonized in the british media. I don't see it. maybe it's because I read the Guardian everyday, so maybe i'm not getting the full picture. I see basically only criticism.

Maybe that's my fault for thinking that the Guardian represents the UK.

I don't see evrything obviously, and i guess the Guardian isn't giving me a very accurate portrait of what's really going on in UK media about her.

The Guardian seems to be one of the only national British newspapers that is offering any kind of counter opinion on this whole farce. The Sun is the biggest selling newspaper in the UK, I'd try reading that and the Mail to see how she's being lauded about as some saint. The BBC really haven't helped much at all either which is thoroughly disappointing.

[Brother Leon]

well you said you'd pull out some popcorn to watch it. maybe taking out popcorn means something else in the UK... is popcorn some sort of rhyming slang that i don't get? cause i thought it meant you'd enjoy sitting down for a night of entertainment. like a movie.

Popcorn is a snack for when you are watching something....Pretty basic stuff this. :joker: and tbf watching possible riots would be more entertaining than most TV nowadays anyway....keep reaching though.

[the truth]

Yeah, I was referring to the government and media's gross adulation which is being imposed upon us with these excessive plans for her funeral (I thought I made that clear in the post you quoted), not anyone else's view or how they're treating her...

All we're hearing is endless praise for the woman as if we're all supposed to put up and shut up, the 'demonisation' is being silenced by those in power if anything

you are 100% spot on, bravo
the BBC and others are meant to be independent yet many interviews have consisted of 2 or 3 titled elitists simple fighting over who could pour the most praise and give the most exaggerated eulogy

In Llanelli a town famous for rugby and steelworks (and huw edwards lol), they still have trostre, however they used to have copperworks and duport steel to name but a few.........the suport steel works made fortunes for 30 years before thatcher, she came into power put inflation through the roof, she then deliberately shut it down, dismantled all the parts , stole the methods, (stole the best furnaces in the world) had them exported to south africa and simply restarted the company over there paying the s africans peanuts.........AND GUESS WHO GOT RICH OFF IT AS THE HEAD OF THE BOARD? thats right her husband

this is how it works across the board under thatcher and radical right wing leaders, they dismantle state owned/run nationalised industries and sold them off to their rich friends or simply broke up the parts......gordon gekko was a pussycat compared to thatcher

[joeysteele]

The Guardian seems to be one of the only national British newspapers that is offering any kind of counter opinion on this whole farce. The Sun is the biggest selling newspaper in the UK, I'd try reading that and the Mail to see how she's being lauded about as some saint. The BBC really haven't helped much at all either which is thoroughly disappointing.

Totally right again Jack, I am equally as annoyed at the BBC as to near the whole of the last week.
It has rarely had any dissenting voices as to this funeral and indeed overall.
The special Question Time from Finchley was the final straw for me.
What a biased place to go to, in effect another in the main tribute programme.

George Galloway has been 100% right as to the bias and hypocrisy of the BBC.

[lostalex]

Totally right again Jack, I am equally as annoyed at the BBC as to near the whole of the last week.
It has rarely had any dissenting voices as to this funeral and indeed overall.
The special Question Time from Finchley was the final straw for me.
What a biased place to go to, in effect another in the main tribute programme.

George Galloway has been 100% right as to the bias and hypocrisy of the BBC.

George Galloway the rape apologist right? "it's not rape, just bad sexual etiquette" That guy? He's a low life bottom feeder.

According to George Galloway ****ing a woman while she's unconscious isn't "rape" it's just "bad sexual etiquette".

because if she's unconscious she can't say no, right? He's such a slime ball piece of crap.

[joeysteele]

George Galloway the rape apologist right? "it's not rape, just bad sexual etiquette" That guy? He's a low life bottom feeder.

According to George Galloway ****ing a woman while she's unconscious isn't "rape" it's just "bad sexual etiquette".

because if she's unconscious she can't say no, right? He's such a slime ball piece of crap.

I rarely ever agree with George Galloway too Lostalex, however he made very sound and strong points as to this funeral.
I don't agree with much he says politically or the way he says it,however he is not always wrong and he is one of the few who have been able to get his views on this across and on this occasion his views match mine and I acknowledge that happily and applaud him for it.

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/17/article-2310323-194E0E6C000005DC-337_306x423.jpg
"Labour frontbencher Diane Abbott today
renewed her criticism of the funeral,
claiming the costs was unprecedented
and accusing Mr Cameron of turning it into a political event"


Fecking Blair and Brown set this up.
Somebody slap her

[Kazanne]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/17/article-2310323-194E0E6C000005DC-337_306x423.jpg
"Labour frontbencher Diane Abbott today
renewed her criticism of the funeral,
claiming the costs was unprecedented
and accusing Mr Cameron of turning it into a political event"


Fecking Blair and Brown set this up.
Somebody slap her

It'de be a pleasure Arista,lol you do make me smile:joker:

[Nedusa]

Good post.
jesus he doesnt bow to the tory scum does he good on him.

"David Cameron has actively avoided ministers question time session for 4 weeks running" sounds like a coward to me.

I agree, George Galloway is one of the few Politicians who actually has a conscience and tells it like it is regardless of the repercussions.

He is spot on re Thatcher and the blatant hypocrisy surrounding her Funeral. If only we'd had a few more politicians like him then the country might well not be in the dire state it is in today.....!!!!

[joeysteele]

Blair and Brown may have set up the plans of this funeral but it is David Cameron and his Govt that have enacted it and to my mind David Cameron has possibly near hijacked it for other purposes,I think that criticism has legs to run yet.

Also when this was drawn up, we were not in the situation we are now where people on the lowest incomes are having money taken off them that they were told they were entitled to, by all means not give them more but to take already in place entitlements away from them at a stroke is something I doubt even Margaret Thatcher herself would have actually done.

I still maintain, not a bit of taxpayers money should have gone to this funeral and I still maintain the Queen should not have been there too.

Since people who are usually strongly anti Labour but pro the Conservatives are having to admit the plans for this were originally drawn up by 2 Labour PMs, it would be nice to see some credit given to them for that from them.

However,I don't care who did draw the plans up in the first place,Tony Blair and Gordon Brown or Tony Blair or Gordon Brown, to me they were wrong to include any public funding as was the person who finally had to enact the plans too namely David Cameron especially when he is following crippling,heartless and unjust policies against the poorest, weakest, sick, disabled and most vulnerable of the UK citizens.

[the truth]

galloway is 100% right. has anyone noticed not one working class person has been interviewed today nor in the past week on the bbc? all weve had is titled aristocrats. so much for balance and impartiality. and of course ALL funded for by US the tax payer, the working classes and the society she said didnt exist.