TiBB's General Election Discussion 2015.

[MTVN]

Is the Times considered the gutter press? That's the issue I'd expect this rubbish from the sun or the mail... seems Rupert has all his media trained on the same target.

Anyone seen any coverage of the protests in parliament square this week... no? Didn't think so.

What protests?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Is the Times considered the gutter press? That's the issue I'd expect this rubbish from the sun or the mail... seems Rupert has all his media trained on the same target.

Anyone seen any coverage of the protests in parliament square this week... no? Didn't think so.

i am glad i did not see it as it sounds very boring

[Kizzy]

What protests?

0AP-EGTdztU

[Livia]

There's a protest in Parliament Square every other day.

[arista]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2015/4/12/383686/default/v0/the-sun-front-page-13.04.15-1-720x960.jpg

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2015/4/12/383688/default/v1/mirror-1-720x960.jpg

[arista]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CCawXayWEAIr5wM.jpg:large
From Ch4News Twitter

[Kizzy]

Oh dear....

'The United Nations has launched an investigation into whether Iain Duncan Smith's disability benefit changes have led to "grave or systemic violations" of disabled people's human rights.

The UN's Committee on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities (CRPD), which is carrying out the unprecedented inquiry, has the power to launch a formal probe if it receives "reliable information" that human rights violations have occurred in a country signed up to the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities (UNCRPD).

This comes after a report last month by the Just Fair coalition suggested that the UK had descended from being an international leader in disability rights to being in danger of becoming a "systematic violator of these same rights".

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/08/28/un-dwp-benefits-disabled-human-rights-probe_n_5727580.html

[joeysteele]

Oh dear....

'The United Nations has launched an investigation into whether Iain Duncan Smith's disability benefit changes have led to "grave or systemic violations" of disabled people's human rights.

The UN's Committee on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities (CRPD), which is carrying out the unprecedented inquiry, has the power to launch a formal probe if it receives "reliable information" that human rights violations have occurred in a country signed up to the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities (UNCRPD).

This comes after a report last month by the Just Fair coalition suggested that the UK had descended from being an international leader in disability rights to being in danger of becoming a "systematic violator of these same rights".

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/08/28/un-dwp-benefits-disabled-human-rights-probe_n_5727580.html

I have been advocating this is the case for the last 2 years now,the really intrusive and hardline testing of the disabled,even with 'known' incurable and even terminal conditions is appalling.

I have attended myself,with one of their family there too, with 6 sick/disabled individuals to these 're-assessments' 2 of whom have dementia,they were bombarded with questions and asked to do the most stupid of things.when it was clear the moment they went in the room that they were totally incapable of any work.
I and the family member were treated very hostile too anytime we interjected with very valid and worrying points.

This govt; also has not made sure that disability benefits have kept up with the cost of living rises as it says it has, it has done a little but not fully.

I also firmly believe looked at elsewhere, that the bedroom tax which does hit disabled people a great deal too, must be an infringement to rights.
It cannot be right to say,in my view, and tell someone sick/disabled they are entitled to say,for example,£150 a week and that is the min. the govt; says they must have to live on.
Then to add to that,that if they have no other income or savings of note, they are entitled to full housing benefit in addition to it.
Only to then come along at a future date to say, even if they have long term tenancy agreeements, that if they have bedroom/s they are not currently using, they will lose some of that housing benefit,and even if they say they will move to a smaller property but there are none available, they still have to pay the bedroom tax/charge.
The bedroom tax/charge then however,having to be paid out of the 'entiitlement' they were told they had to have in 'law' to live on, thereby making them lose out on what a govt; says they have to have as a minimum.

I am pleased some organisation is looking into this now,charities have been saying this for ages.the fact some international organisation is looking a it at all is a real blight on the UK's govts; treatment of its long term/permanent. sick, disabled and therefore most vulnerable.

I also think it was wrong of this govt; to bring in an American company after ATOS to do any future re-assessments at this time too as they have recently.
setting in place yet another very expensive contract to outside sources should have been the decision, as to have one or not and who it was to be,for the next govt; elected in May.
Not this govt; who had such a failure and a costly failure too, with ATOS as to the issue.

I have little faith, that this new company will make things any better or even understand the complexities of some of the sick ad disabled of the UK, just as ATOS failed to do too.

For me it is time to start listening and trusting the Doctors, the GPs and the Consultants, who know these patients inside out and know their capabalities or incapabilities of work of any duration,short term or long term.
To stop ignoring the Doctors who deal with these patients and dismissing their reports of same.
One of the re-assessments I attended, the person's GP gave extensive notes for the family to take along to it.
The so called health professional who did the re-assessment, never even looked at it or kept it,they just left it on the desk,then gave it back to us as we left the room.

When the family raised that with Ian Duncan Smiths dept; they got a letter back,obviously not from him, saying they were not aware of those things happening and thankfully the reforms to benefits testing were now working to 'support' more people into work.
No addressing of the real issue at all,no apology for the distress caused either.

[Vicky.]

Oh dear....

'The United Nations has launched an investigation into whether Iain Duncan Smith's disability benefit changes have led to "grave or systemic violations" of disabled people's human rights.

The UN's Committee on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities (CRPD), which is carrying out the unprecedented inquiry, has the power to launch a formal probe if it receives "reliable information" that human rights violations have occurred in a country signed up to the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities (UNCRPD).

This comes after a report last month by the Just Fair coalition suggested that the UK had descended from being an international leader in disability rights to being in danger of becoming a "systematic violator of these same rights".

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/08/28/un-dwp-benefits-disabled-human-rights-probe_n_5727580.html
Only surprise about this is that its taken so long. IDS should be held accountable for every person his policies have basically killed. The way disabled people are treat these days is ****ing disgusting. Yeah its all under the reasoning of 'preventing fraud' but it doesnt ****ing work...I would rather the 0.1% of fraudsters or whatever it is remained claiming disability benefits than people in comas being sent 'get back to work' letters tbh.

[bots]

Only surprise about this is that its taken so long. IDS should be held accountable for every person his policies have basically killed. The way disabled people are treat these days is ****ing disgusting. Yeah its all under the reasoning of 'preventing fraud' but it doesnt ****ing work...I would rather the 0.1% of fraudsters or whatever it is remained claiming disability benefits than people in comas being sent 'get back to work' letters tbh.

I have to agree I would rather there was no fraud detection than unfairly targeting a genuinely deserving disabled person who ends up not getting the help they need.

Its all about perspective. The government - and this applies to conservative and labour - always seem to target the little fish rather than dealing with the big boys who really screw the system.

[joeysteele]

Only surprise about this is that its taken so long. IDS should be held accountable for every person his policies have basically killed. The way disabled people are treat these days is ****ing disgusting. Yeah its all under the reasoning of 'preventing fraud' but it doesnt ****ing work...I would rather the 0.1% of fraudsters or whatever it is remained claiming disability benefits than people in comas being sent 'get back to work' letters tbh.

Me too, I have felt for ages this man has many questions to answer as to his near victimisation of the most vulnerable, sick and disabled,which will be even worse in the next 5 years with over 10 billion pounds worth of cuts he needs to do as to the welfare budget.

No govt;not even Margaret Thatcher's, has discriminated post war so heartlessly and in my view unjustifiably aginst the weakest in society the way this govt; has done under Ian Duncan Smith policies, fully supported by this Prime Minister too.

I really remain mystified how this man is in the cabinet, let alone having any power over peoples lives and incomes.

[arista]

Kym Marsh on the panel of LooseWomenHD today
confirms she does Not Vote

http://cdn01.wallconvert.com/_media/conv/1/9/82392-kym-marsh.jpg

[Kizzy]

Because nobody cares enough to stop him, that's what it boils down to. Everyone knows it happens but they turn a blind eye as it doesn't affect them.

[joeysteele]

Because nobody cares enough to stop him, that's what it boils down to. Everyone knows it happens but they turn a blind eye as it doesn't affect them.

Spot on again Kizzy, very true.

[Kizzy]

Yes and there are those who work in public services who have demonstrated, yes there's a media block but even when it is made public there's a blasé response.. the rolling of eyes, snide comments about holidays or the fact people work for less for for longer or other some such rubbish.
It's as if they're totally taken for granted that they'll always be there, but they won't and that concept just can't be comprehended, because if you try to imagine this country without them you'll see it collapse in on itself like a house of cards.
Nothing that is privatised and/or deregulated ever functions effectively and the onus is always on profit at the expense of workers health/rights/ pay and the service users.

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/04/13/17/2788B8F300000578-0-image-a-30_1428942914701.jpg

Utter Bliss

[joeysteele]

Just before anyone gets too excited, this poll is seen as an outlier, even by the Guardian who printed it, it is the ICM monthly poll and has a very surprising and unusually low rating for UKIP,which I think personally is probably way out.
I doubt anyone seriously thinks UKIP is actually only on 7% and behind the Lib Dems too.

Now there are already 2 other polls out in addition to this one tonight,not done over the last month but over the last few days.
Populus and Lord Ashcrofts,both show Labour and the Conservatives almost unchanged on 33% each in both of them and UKIP with its usual level of support,15% and 13% respectively, that they have had recently.
Another poll,(the 4th tonight), by yougov for the SUN, has the Conservatives on 33% and labour on 34%,with UKIP on their usual polling there too.

Taking one poll in isolation is not the best way to determine what is happening,all polling needs to be looked at.
The ICM poll, because it has UKIP so low,and is at odds,at present, with all other polling,even has the Guardian editorial,(who printed it), describing as to it,that it is 'dubious'.

Also, those figures could still leave the Conservatives just short of an overall majority too or at best only a very tiny one,even it was in any way right.

A poll late last week had Labour on 37% and the Conservatives 31%,I took no notice of that one either, also seeing it as an outlier.

[AnnieK]

The polls I saw today had labour and tory on 33%. These polls are hard to second guess. No way to call it accurately I guess until the votes are finally counted

[Crimson Dynamo]

well looking back in history - everytime a labour govt leaves power it leave the country in a total state

so not sure who is going to vote for them?

[Kazanne]

well looking back in history - everytime a labour govt leaves power it leave the country in a total state

so not sure who is going to vote for them?

That's what will happen again LT,watch this space.the only thing it seems they can run is this country to the ground.

[bots]

I never believe polls. I always think back to the Neil Kinnock election where every exit poll predicted Labour would win. The cameras were in his house showing his reaction to the results as they happened, expecting to be interviewing the new Prime Minister elect. They lost. It was uncomfortable viewing.

[joeysteele]

well looking back in history - everytime a labour govt leaves power it leave the country in a total state

so not sure who is going to vote for them?

That actually is incorrect, in 1951, Winston Churchill took over a pretty good economy from Clement Attlee's Labour,that had been dealt with pretty good after the war.

Equally too, the Conservatives left a really good economy in the main when they left office in 1964.

In 1970, despite the devaluation problem in 1967, Labour left a fair surplus and only 500,000 unemployed when they lost office.

By 1971,The Conservatives presided over the first 1,000,000 to be unemployed since the war.
Then in Feb 1974, the Conservatives left power with the UK in the grip of a crippling miners strike and the Nation on a 3 day week,which it had been for over 2 months to the election.

Beween 1974 and 1979, the Labour party did have to call the IMF in around 1977 but in a working programme with the Liberals up to 1978, they got that sorted and were doing pretty much okay until the Unions,(who are supposed to get everything they want from Labour govts; but clearly don't),called strikes that again held the nation to ransom.

The economy was still not that bad but industrial relations were since that Labour govt; refused to give in to the Unions just as Edward Heath's Conservative govt; refused to do with the miners in 1973/4 too.

Margaret Thatcher then very rightly came in and got to work curbing Union powers and getting rid of the ridiculous secondary picketing.
Full credit to her for doing that too.
However, during those 18 years of govt; we had 2 recessions and the ERM fiasco in the early 90s that cost the UK heavily.

Labour did take over a pretty good economy by 1997 after John Major's govt; but had a totally wrecked NHS in 1997.
Then for 11 years had in a row,an unprecedented period of economic stability between 1997 and 2007,both years inclusive,the UK had growth every year and no recessions.

The global financial/banking crisis that hit many countries in 2008 would have come no matter what govt; had been in power.

However, even then, after the deepest recession post war, caused by that crisis in the main, by 2009 we were out of recession and in 2010, had growth of 1% and no recession looming.
That was then when this coalition took power.

So it is mixed bag as to who leaves a mess and who doesn't really and in fairness too..

This govt; only appears to be doing better because it has downgraded all of its targets set in 2010, firstly in the budget of 2011 and then the autumn statement of that year,the same again as to both in 2012 and the same again as to both in 2013.
From 2014 ,as was said on the daily politics today, they have only got better looking figures becasue of the heavily reduced new targets they brought in from the years of failure.
If this govt; was being judged on its targets set actually by itself in 2010, it would have failed to achieve a single one,except for unemployment falling.

You can be selective in what you perceive as to be the case but the one thing that cannot be done is to re-write history.
Both parties in govt; at times, have left good economical situations to take over by the other.
Vice versa too, both parties have left bad situations to take over by the other too.

There is also a lot more to governing than just economics, there are many sections and issues of society that need good govt; too,rather than just being in any way economically competent.

Even as to the NHS,neither party in govt' left great problems there really right up to the start of the 80s.
Until however the govt between 1983 and 1997,in 1997,it was in utter chaos.
By 2010, despite still many problems here and there, it was far better.

Now in 2015,it is in chaos again.
Until this last 25 years or so, no party really failed the NHS too,until the last 2 Conservative govts:

Governing is not easy by any means but the history of what govts; really leave is clear, by looking at the facts of history.

Whether Labour or the Conservatives had been in power in 2008,when the almost worldwide financial/banking crisis hit and the inevitable recession that came with that,no matter what party was in then would have left a great mess, either as to major financial problems or major mass unemployment problems for the other to deal with.

[bots]

That actually is incorrect, in 1951, Winston Churchill took over a pretty good economy from Clement Attlee's Labour,that had been dealt with pretty good after the war.

Equally too, the Conservatives left a really good economy in the main when they left office in 1964.

In 1970, despite the devaluation problem in 1967, Labour left a fair surplus and only 500,000 unemployed when they lost office.

By 1971,The Conservatives presided over the first 1,000,000 to be unemployed since the war.
Then in Feb 1974, the Conservatives left power with the UK in the grip of a crippling miners strike and the Nation on a 3 day week,which it had been for over 2 months to the election.

Beween 1974 and 1979, the Labour party did have to call the IMF in around 1977 but in a working programme with the Liberals up to 1978, they got that sorted and were doing pretty much okay until the Unions,(who are supposed to get everything they want from Labour govts; but clearly don't),called strikes that again held the nation to ransom.

The economy was still not that bad but industrial relations were since that Labour govt; refused to give in to the Unions just as Edward Heath's Conservative govt; refused to do with the miners in 1973/4 too.

Margaret Thatcher then very rightly came in and got to work curbing Union powers and getting rid of the ridiculous secondary picketing.
Full credit to her for doing that too.
However, during those 18 years of govt; we had 2 recessions and the ERM fiasco in the early 90s that cost the UK heavily.

Labour did take over a pretty good economy by 1997 after John Major's govt; but had a totally wrecked NHS in 1997.
Then for 11 years had in a row,an unprecedented period of economic stability between 1997 and 2007,both years inclusive,the UK had growth every year and no recessions.

The global financial/banking crisis that hit many countries in 2008 would have come no matter what govt; had been in power.

However, even then, after the deepest recession post war, caused by that crisis in the main, by 2009 we were out of recession and in 2010, had growth of 1% and no recession looming.
That was then when this coalition took power.

So it is mixed bag as to who leaves a mess and who doesn't really and in fairness too..

This govt; only appears to be doing better because it has downgraded all of its targets set in 2010, firstly in the budget of 2011 and then the autumn statement of that year,the same again as to both in 2012 and the same again as to both in 2013.
From 2014 ,as was said on the daily politics today, they have only got better looking figures becasue of the heavily reduced new targets they brought in from the years of failure.
If this govt; was being judged on its targets set actually by itself in 2010, it would have failed to achieve a single one,except for unemployment falling.

You can be selective in what you perceive as to be the case but the one thing that cannot be done is to re-write history.
Both parties in govt; at times, have left good economical situations to take over by the other.
Vice versa too, both parties have left bad situations to take over by the other too.

There is also a lot more to governing than just economics, there are many sections and issues of society that need good govt; too,rather than just being in any way economically competent.

Even as to the NHS,neither party in govt' left great problems there really right up to the start of the 80s.
Until however the govt between 1983 and 1997,in 1997,it was in utter chaos.
By 2010, despite still many problems here and there, it was far better.

Now in 2015,it is in chaos again.
Until this last 25 years or so, no party really failed the NHS too,until the last 2 Conservative govts:

Governing is not easy by any means but the history of what govts; really leave is clear, by looking at the facts of history.

Whether Labour or the Conservatives had been in power in 2008,when the almost worldwide financial/banking crisis hit and the inevitable recession that came with that,no matter what party was in then would have left a great mess, either as to major financial problems or major mass unemployment problems for the other to deal with.


Very selective summary is all I'm going to say about this :laugh:

[JoshBB]

arista, in that poll UKIP are also on 7%. They normally poll around 13%-15% so my bet is that this is an outlier and the vote has gone there

[joeysteele]

Very selective summary is all I'm going to say about this :laugh:

Well at least it is all historically accurate and far more balanced than all your one sided attitude.
I have balanced that post the best way I could,from historical facts as to both main parties of govt;

Enlighten us however as to what parts are not historically correct, history itself deals with facts, credit has to be given and criticism has to be given to most PMs and govts; that have been in power post war.
That is what I did.

Setting a different balance however from facts, rather than your opinion that always condemns one party is with respect,in my view, a far better way to proceed.

So with even fuller respect,laugh all you like in your pettiness,at least it is better to give someone a laugh anyday.

[Ross.]

Can't see UKIP getting as many seats as people think they will tbh

[joeysteele]

Can't see UKIP getting as many seats as people think they will tbh

I really now cannot see then getting more than 5 in a good election for them,however they could even be hard pressed to hold the 2 they have now.

It is by no means assured that Nigel Farage will even take the Thanet seat he is contesting.

I have been out canvassing the last week and while finding a lot of people who like the sound of UKIP,they are not going to vote for them in a general election.
In fact, I am finding where a voter is torn between UKIP and the Conservatives,they are more likely to vote Conservative.

[bots]

Well at least it is all historically accurate and far more balanced than all your one sided attitude.
I have balanced that post the best way I could,from historical facts as to both main parties of govt;

Enlighten us however as to what parts are not historically correct, history itself deals with facts, credit has to be given and criticism has to be given to most PMs and govts; that have been in power post war.
That is what I did.

Setting a different balance however from facts, rather than your opinion that always condemns one party is with respect,in my view, a far better way to proceed.

So with even fuller respect,laugh all you like in your pettiness,at least it is better to give someone a laugh anyday.

That's a bit harsh :laugh:

You have covered so much history in a quick summary that its really to much to go in to detail with. I will however cover the key points of the last labour government that were extremely damaging to the country.

1. Pensions. Gordon Brown robbed the pension funds bringing the whole pension funding crisis to a head.

2. Mobile phone networks. Gordon Brown put the bandwidth up for auction forcing our top companies such as Vodafone to cripple themselves bidding far too much and making them less able to compete globally.

3. Gordon Brown sold off the gold reserves at the point where there were worth the least .. very smart move - not.

4. Gordon Brown sold off as much state property as he could

All the money generated from the above was squandered before the the global crisis hit. He basically removed all the buffers that we had making any economic downturn much more difficult to deal with.

Just a few examples.....

The labour party didn't do a good job during their years in office. Blaming the economic downturn for all the country's ills is not reflecting the true state of affairs.

[empire]

I do not want another labour ruling country, they will piss are money up the wall again, ruin are small run businesses, rise green tax, more pro eu rules, replace are pound to the euro, in turn we will end up being another greece, eu rules have treated british workers like second and third class citizens, because of the last labour government.

[Kizzy]

That's a bit harsh :laugh:

You have covered so much history in a quick summary that its really to much to go in to detail with. I will however cover the key points of the last labour government that were extremely damaging to the country.

1. Pensions. Gordon Brown robbed the pension funds bringing the whole pension funding crisis to a head.

2. Mobile phone networks. Gordon Brown put the bandwidth up for auction forcing our top companies such as Vodafone to cripple themselves bidding far too much and making them less able to compete globally.

3. Gordon Brown sold off the gold reserves at the point where there were worth the least .. very smart move - not.

4. Gordon Brown sold off as much state property as he could

All the money generated from the above was squandered before the the global crisis hit. He basically removed all the buffers that we had making any economic downturn much more difficult to deal with.

Just a few examples.....

The labour party didn't do a good job during their years in office. Blaming the economic downturn for all the country's ills is not reflecting the true state of affairs.

A quick summary is better than a off the cuff remark I would've thought.
I think the key words there were global financial crisis, I haven't seen any evidence that there were financial mistakes made before that hit?
It could be counterbalanced with some of the mistakes made by this government I guess, the £700 million of IT wasted during the advent of universal credit and the undervaluing of royal mail.. I'll have a think about the Thatcher years if we're talking really screwing the country over.

[Kizzy]

:laugh:

VOfW7WssJ2Y

[joeysteele]

That's a bit harsh :laugh:

You have covered so much history in a quick summary that its really to much to go in to detail with. I will however cover the key points of the last labour government that were extremely damaging to the country.

1. Pensions. Gordon Brown robbed the pension funds bringing the whole pension funding crisis to a head.

2. Mobile phone networks. Gordon Brown put the bandwidth up for auction forcing our top companies such as Vodafone to cripple themselves bidding far too much and making them less able to compete globally.

3. Gordon Brown sold off the gold reserves at the point where there were worth the least .. very smart move - not.

4. Gordon Brown sold off as much state property as he could

All the money generated from the above was squandered before the the global crisis hit. He basically removed all the buffers that we had making any economic downturn much more difficult to deal with.

Just a few examples.....

The labour party didn't do a good job during their years in office. Blaming the economic downturn for all the country's ills is not reflecting the true state of affairs.

You couldn't make it up, it is seen as harsh by you that someone challenges what you say but you can in a belittling fashion get at them for their posts.

I presume you couldn't fault any of the 'facts' I had in there which gave credit to both parties in govt; and also highlighted the things that went wrong too.

Now you are off being selective,I agree Gordon Brown made many mistakes,I was dealing with the situations left by govts; when they left office in the main not the whole run of things during their time in office.

You are right too on the gold reserves and pension funds,however that too is a issue of during the time in power not the end of the time in govt:

Which is why I largely ignored the selling of state assets etc; however I could have included the disastrous selling off,of the the telecom , gas and electricity and water too.
I notice and I am sure others will have too, that you chose to highlight what Gordon Brown sold off but carefully ignored that fact of those industries being sold off, very cheaply I may add, during the 18 year run of Conservative govt:

Gordon Brown was a disastrous PM, some have been really good,some poor,I will even resist putting my real view on the current one.
The post was in the main designed as to point out how things were when govts; took over from the other party,not their full period in office.

With a little more emphasis put on the last 2 govts:
The facts in that post show that the charge that Labour always leaves a mess to be cleared up is unust and wrong.
In fact, what often becomes the real mess needing clearing up is the self inflicted fact that when another party takes over in govt; they in part set out to dismantle what the previous one has been doing,which then often is instrumental in creating instability and bringing about 'unnecessary' problems to be dealt with too.
Both are guilty of that, not just one party.

[arista]

"Gordon Brown was a disastrous PM,"


Bang on Right
Wise Joey

[Crimson Dynamo]

Nicola Sturgeon was very good in a live 1 hour Your Call on 5 Live there with Nicky Campbell.

Tune in at 9am on Friday to hear Nigel Farage take the calls

should be good.

http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/139/590x/secondary/leaders-debates-272100.jpg


you can listen again here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/5live/programmes/schedules#on-now

[arista]

She I Love Her
Killing Labour MP's

Bloodbath
Bliss

[MTVN]

Andrew Neil ripped Bennett to shreds on the Daily Politics again, all this talk she gave about "wait for our fully costed manifesto" but it's barely credible, the economics don't work

[Kizzy]

Where are the costings for the 8m pledged for the NHS by the conservatives?
It's so annoying that some parties the greens and labour are continually pressed for figures prior to their manifesto outlining specific spending. Whilst the conservatives and lib dem are allowed to pluck figures from thin air and the electorate say 'oh wow aren't they wonderful 8 million! how generous...that will be such a big help'
It's just laughable.

[MTVN]

Elizabeth Truss got hammered by Neil as well, I don't see any media conspiracy in support of the coalition against the poor Labour and Greens. I agree the Tories need to explain more how they'll fund that and also where the major cuts will be made, and they've been criticised for that aplenty.

The Greens economics are pretty incoherent on a basic level though, like a failure to grasp that after a certain point you actually get less revenue coming in the higher you tax the income of the most wealthy - raising the top tax rate to 60p won't work and certainly is not likely to raise the £2b that the Greens are claiming. The Greens are also saying that they can raise £30bn in clamping down on tax avoidance - that's 6 times more than the Tories are saying they can raise and 5 times more than Labour think can be raised - what's the Green's secret? And from the BBC politics feed:

And the man who wrote the manifesto numbers, Brian Heatley, has told me they can't really be sure how much their new wealth tax would work because it hasn't been tried before. In a sense, refreshingly candid. In another way, extremely problematic for a party that wants to be taken seriously on a tax that they need to raise £20 billion. The Greens also say in their manifesto they would carry on spending more each year than the government gets from revenue. Does that mean deficits for ever? The Greens won't say

And this is all after we were told to wait for weeks before criticising Green policies because their fully costed manifesto would comprehensively cover everything. Doesn't seem that way.

[Livia]

I'm surprised at the amusement about David Cameron being told to "F*c* off back to Eton". (Am I surprised? Am I really...?). If someone told Labour MP Emily Thornberry to "F*c* off back to her council estate" the same people laughing at Cameron would be up in arms. It's fine to rip the piss out of someone because of their "class" so long as it's not the lower class. Seems like a ridiculously transparent double-standard to me.

[smudgie]

I'm surprised at the amusement about David Cameron being told to "F*c* off back to Eton". (Am I surprised? Am I really...?). If someone told Labour MP Emily Thornberry to "F*c* off back to her council estate" the same people laughing at Cameron would be up in arms. It's fine to rip the piss out of someone because of their "class" so long as it's not the lower class. Seems like a ridiculously transparent double-standard to me.

Indeed it does.

Mind you, that lone protester on his day up North was pretty good going, he got a really good reception over all to be honest, even in Stockton.

[Livia]

Indeed it does.

Mind you, that lone protester on his day up North was pretty good going, he got a really good reception over all to be honest, even in Stockton.

Got to agree... one lone protester is amazing really.

[Ninastar]

I'm surprised at the amusement about David Cameron being told to "F*c* off back to Eton". (Am I surprised? Am I really...?). If someone told Labour MP Emily Thornberry to "F*c* off back to her council estate" the same people laughing at Cameron would be up in arms. It's fine to rip the piss out of someone because of their "class" so long as it's not the lower class. Seems like a ridiculously transparent double-standard to me.

Totally agree.

I wish everyone was like us where we hate everyone equally...

[joeysteele]

Indeed it does.

Mind you, that lone protester on his day up North was pretty good going, he got a really good reception over all to be honest, even in Stockton.

Stockton on Tees is that, I can actually see the Conservatives holding that seat even in a poor election for them overall.

They have in place there a first class MP to be fair in James Wharton, who deserves credit for some good hard work done in the region by him.

He and Rory Stewart for Penrith and the Borders should be rising stars of the Conservative party and could really transform the party the way they see things.

2 really good Northern constituency MPs in my view.

[smudgie]

Stockton on Tees is that, I can actually see the Conservatives holding that seat even in a poor election for them overall.

They have in place there a first class MP to be fair in James Wharton, who deserves credit for some good hard work done in the region by him.

He and Rory Stewart for Penrith and the Borders should be rising stars of the Conservative party and could really transform the party the way they see things.

2 really good Northern constituency MPs in my view.

STOCKTON South might just hold their seat Joey, not too sure mind, a very tight margin.
I must say, James and Rory are two of the brighter stars in the Tory party for me.
James is my MP and he has indeed worked hard for us locally.

[joeysteele]

STOCKTON South might just hold their seat Joey, not too sure mind, a very tight margin.
I must say, James and Rory are two of the brighter stars in the Tory party for me.
James is my MP and he has indeed worked hard for us locally.

James Wharton is a really good guy,I know some people feel he could have done better with his private members bill than going for the EU referendum with it.

At least he tried to get the date set in stone and it is disappointing he didn't get the full support of his party in that to ensure it succeeded.

He is as you say a really hard working MP,decent guy totally.

[arista]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2015/4/13/383959/default/v1/telegraph-1-720x960.jpg

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2015/4/13/383959/default/v1/telegraph-1-720x960.jpg

I love the Labour-SNP deal will raise taxes warns Bank



and we are listening to what Banks say because why?

[Kizzy]

'We are the party of working people'

So... er, if you don't have a job or are too physically or mentally incapable to work can you just die please?

[arista]

'We are the party of working people'

So... er, if you don't have a job or are too physically or mentally incapable to work can you just die please?


no

[joeysteele]

'We are the party of working people'

So... er, if you don't have a job or are too physically or mentally incapable to work can you just die please?

That has a ring of truth as to it really Kizzy.

Some have,in part more than probably, due to the stress and hardship caused by policies enacted by this govt:

[Kizzy]

I don't doubt it at all Joey, you would think that following the many deaths and suicides that have been directly or indirectly linked there would've been some inquiry into the reforms ..but no.
Seemingly it's up to Europe to tell us how to treat people as human beings, no wonder so many want out of the EU, they could ride roughshod over the whole country then, and whether literally or figuratively we wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

[Livia]

It's unfair that people on disability benefit have been targeted by cuts. I'm not in favour of that at all. I do agree that efforts should be continued to weed out those using the system when they don't need it although I accept that they're a small minority. But those without a job? Well... if they really can't find one I think they should be given one.

[MTVN]

Good speech from Cleggy this morning: "the Liberal Democrats will add a heart to the Conservative government and a brain to a Labour one" :clap1:

[Livia]

Good speech from Cleggy this morning: "the Liberal Democrats will add a heart to the Conservative government and a brain to a Labour one" :clap1:

.. not to mention a squeaky sphincter to both.

[Kizzy]

there's a little test here to test where your personal opinions reflect those of the party you support...

I did mine and came out 32% green and 28% labour which was a surprise.
I won't mention the 11% conservative :/ Doh!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/generalelection/who-should-i-vote-for-general-election-2015-quiz-ukip-conservatives-labour-lib-dems-policies-10174410.html?cmpid=facebook-post

[joeysteele]

Nick Clegg has always been able to talk in a reasoned way,however, I could be sick hearing him go on about mental health for instance, he has been part of a govt' for 5 years that has done not a thing as to mental health and in some cases,has allowed ths stigma attached to it to get even worse,especially as to the welfare re-assessments.
Now the Lib Dems suddenly around an election campaign find a conscience.

Clegg led his party to throw out,since tuition fees are no longer needing to be abolished it seems, PR seems much further down the list of Lib Dem priorities for govt; now too,most of their strongest principles.

The thing that bothers me about a future coalition that may involve the Lib Dems,is not just that they 'moderate' either the Conservatives or Labour in govt:
It is who will then however keep a check on the Lib Dems,I cannot see any way that can be done and since they kicked their voters in the teeth in 2010,I would not trust them to not do so again this time.

Nothing this govt; has done could have been done without the Lib Dem votes,the Conservatives,to be fair to them,in the main presented as much of their manifesto as they could,then with Lib Dem votes, got most of it through too.
Except for,in my view, the abuse of power by both that involved the NHS re-organisation that neither had any authority to do at all.

Nick Clegg cannot now gloss over all the bad things he and his party have supported while claiming credit for any good things done only.
That is all that came across to me from him, as I was watching him I am afraid.
He looks like a man about to lose his seat already actually.

[arista]

"Nick Clegg cannot now gloss over all the bad things he and his party have supported"

Yes he can
Like Labour do

[arista]

Farage is Live now live on BBCNewsHD and SkyNewsHD

[joeysteele]

"Nick Clegg cannot now gloss over all the bad things he and his party have supported"

Yes he can
Like Labour do

There is a difference in what you gave firm and even signed pledges not to do, that you then actually do as opposed to saying we have no plans for this or that and then doing them.

All govts; are guilty of manipulating voters in the past by not being 100% clear as to their real intentions.

The Lib Dems have supported some of the most extreme policies against the weaker citizens of the UK thatw as something they promised never to do as with tuition fees and even the NHS too.

Thankfully one Lib Dem MP had enough of the betrayals and they lost one of their brighter MPs in Sarah Teather.

There will be times when all govts; get things wrong,as this one has and has yet to realise and apologise for, such as the NHS re-organisation.

However, I know of no time or can find one that either Labour or the Conservative party have in govt; dumped almost their whole manifesto as these Lib Dems did to have 5 years of shared power and a few miserable Ministerial titles.

[Vicky.]

there's a little test here to test where your personal opinions reflect those of the party you support...

I did mine and came out 32% green and 28% labour which was a surprise.
I won't mention the 11% conservative :/ Doh!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/generalelection/who-should-i-vote-for-general-election-2015-quiz-ukip-conservatives-labour-lib-dems-policies-10174410.html?cmpid=facebook-post

Cant find out my percentages :suspect:

Apparently I have the most in common with the greens, which surprises me

Edit. Found it
Con 11%
Lib Dem 21%
UKIP 16%
Lab 24%
Green 28%

[Kizzy]

Cant find out my percentages :suspect:

Apparently I have the most in common with the greens, which surprises me

Edit. Found it
Con 11%
Lib Dem 21%
UKIP 16%
Lab 24%
Green 28%

similar to mine, except you're a bit more UKIP than me :/
I forgive you though, just write out 100 times 'I will stop being a UKIPPER'
:laugh:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Con 14
Lib 14
Ukip 10
lab 18
Green 21
SNP 22

[MTVN]

Lib Dem - 25%
Con - 24%
Ukip - 19%
Labour 17%
Green 15%

[Kizzy]

Con 14
Lib 14
Ukip 10
lab 18
Green 21
SNP 22

Well well well, aren't you the forum Farage champion LT? :)

[Crimson Dynamo]

Well well well, aren't you the forum Farage champion LT? :)

Yes I really like Nigel

[Kizzy]

Yes I really like Nigel

It would seem your views and his don't correlate though, how odd.

[Crimson Dynamo]

It would seem your views and his don't correlate though, how odd.

I guess it rather depends how that indy thing was set up and the way that the questions were posed.

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://www.ukip.org/manifesto2015

[Kizzy]

I guess it rather depends how that indy thing was set up and the way that the questions were posed.

Oh, mine was pretty spot on ... maybe it was a fluke?

[Kizzy]

http://www.ukip.org/manifesto2015

His signature looks like an inverted cross.... D:

[Kizzy]

Unite says Ukip plan to abolish DECC is 'barmy'

Unite has issued a statement saying that Ukip’s energy policies are “barmy”. But what’s equally interesting is that the union is saying the Department for Energy and Climate Change (which has been under Lib Dem control for the last five years) has done a “fantastic” job. The statement is from Kevin Coyne, Unite’s national officer for energy and utilities.

At a time when the planning of the future energy needs of the UK is critical, the Ukip proposal to axe the energy department is beyond barmy and would create chaos.

We need a central department at the heart of government to co-ordinate and balance all the elements of a coherent and strategic energy policy – nuclear, coal, oil, wind, solar and fracking.

The energy department has been fantastic in co-ordinating nuclear policy which has led to much-needed new nuclear build in the UK. It has done a similar excellent job in promoting wind power which has created many good jobs and boosted economic growth.

These are complex issues, balancing competing interests from the energy companies, industry and the consumer. They can’t be left to the DIY policies of Nigel Farage.'

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2015/apr/15/election-2015-live-lib-dems-ukip-unveil-party-manifestos-live

[Vicky.]

Oh, mine was pretty spot on ... maybe it was a fluke?

Don't think mine was really..I would never vote for greens..I personally see them as a bit of a joke D: Also I was against building wind farms and such, which is their main focus, or thats what its made out to be. I also dont really give a crap about golbal warming and such as I figure its going to happen anyway, and I'm not convinced we are causing as much damage ourselves as some would have us believe

[Vicky.]

Unless voting to disarm the UK of nuclear crap knocked my greens score up.

[joeysteele]

I have really been surprised today at the number of people really impressed with the UKIP manifesto.
The Lib Dem one seems to have passed by virtually unnoticed.

Apparantly too UKIP indicated they want to allow bars and clubs to set up smoking rooms if they want to.
That actually seems to have gone down well with good numbers of people.

[AnnieK]

Are people telling you they will actually vote for UKIP Joey? I'm interested as I've spoken to people who said they agree with a lot of what they stand for but feel it would be a wasted vote at the polls.

[MTVN]

I have really been surprised today at the number of people really impressed with the UKIP manifesto.
The Lib Dem one seems to have passed by virtually unnoticed.

Apparantly too UKIP indicated they want to allow bars and clubs to set up smoking rooms if they want to.
That actually seems to have gone down well with good numbers of people.

That is one of the things I like about Ukip - their support for the pub trade. I haven't really looked at their manifesto yet but I hear its the only one to have been fully costed by an independent body as well which gives them a bit more credibility.

They seem to be slipping in the polls right now though and I think they'll be left disappointed overall with their performance in the election

[Kizzy]

It would be a massive backwards step, UKIP are aging yuppies that want everything to so back to the 'glory' days of their youth where Women weren't allowed in the golf club except on 'lovely girls' day and you could expose everyone else in the bar to your second hand smoke without question.

[joeysteele]

Are people telling you they will actually vote for UKIP Joey? I'm interested as I've spoken to people who said they agree with a lot of what they stand for but feel it would be a wasted vote at the polls.

The general view I am getting is that UKIP have generated a lot of interest with this launch of their manifesto today.
I am finding a more positive response to them today for sure.

I am just catching up with it as I have been out most of the day canvassing for another party.

However if this is true too, they have struck another chord as well as to also saying they would get rid of ATOS style re-assessments and testing for the sick and disabled.
Even I could fully support that move.

Being fair, I would say this is the only manifesto that I am finding more talking about after its launch.

[Vicky.]

I was quite impressed by UKIPs mind..I have to say. All I have ever heard from them really is the EU thing. Even their stance on immigration isnt as harsh as people think.


Mind, those manifestos are barely worth wiping your arse with when the time actually comes...

[Crimson Dynamo]

did anyone hear the disgusting speech by Clegg today?

The pathetic scaremongering, the patronising?

I hope him and his lilly livered party get wiped out in May

he is a scandal

smh

[Crimson Dynamo]

Nick Clegg: ''The Liberal Democrats will add a heart to a Conservative government and a brain to a Labour one''


unbelievable

[smudgie]

We appear to be having an invasion of the top MPs of late.
We had Boris and George, then Dave On Monday, then Yvette yesterday and today her hubby Ed ventured onto our doorstep.
Very close margin between Labour and the Tories, makes for an interesting result.

[MTVN]

Nick Clegg: ''The Liberal Democrats will add a heart to a Conservative government and a brain to a Labour one''


unbelievable

http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7701016&postcount=304

:hehe:

[Kizzy]

ban ha MTVN

So Nick is the heart and the brain.....so who has the nerve?
http://d.ibtimes.co.uk/en/full/370931/nigel-farage.jpg
Er..... No.

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7701016&postcount=304

:hehe:

http://flavorwire.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/wiz.jpg


pity he lacks courage

[Crimson Dynamo]

ban ha MTVN

be quiet you or Nicola will batter ya

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-HSnmw1eODOE/VSaNdCwmdrI/AAAAAAAANmw/wD9VYEMHu5E/s1600/1354835982.jpg

[MTVN]

We appear to be having an invasion of the top MPs of late.
We had Boris and George, then Dave On Monday, then Yvette yesterday and today her hubby Ed ventured onto our doorstep.
Very close margin between Labour and the Tories, makes for an interesting result.

This was up your way then eh

http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/media/images/82338000/jpg/_82338991_fbbbed13-e5d0-4a26-9b5e-f841d7e2b217.jpg

[Kizzy]

be quiet you or Nicola will batter ya

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-HSnmw1eODOE/VSaNdCwmdrI/AAAAAAAANmw/wD9VYEMHu5E/s1600/1354835982.jpg

She couldn't batter a mars bar :smug:

[empire]

groups like uaf and hope not hate, are saying that if ukip win the 2020 election, we will have norsefire style dictatorship, and some of them claimed that nigel farage is the real version of adam sutler, the estabilishment parties are having sleepless nights about ukip, that they lie and claim that ukip will deport british born foreigners, or put them in concentration style camps, and that gays will be put into these camps aswell, 13 years of labour, we have two invasions of other countries, mass surveillance systems, to 90 day detention, and mass cover up of child abuse in rotherham, to rochdale, for political correctness, tolerance and diversity, and multculturalism, so who are the real dictatorship party, ukip or labour, make your choice.

[smudgie]

This was up your way then eh

http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/media/images/82338000/jpg/_82338991_fbbbed13-e5d0-4a26-9b5e-f841d7e2b217.jpg

Oh, He was in Yarm.
But looking at him licking a lemon top he must have been in Redcar as well.
Watch out Cleggy.:laugh:

[Crimson Dynamo]

She couldn't batter a mars bar :smug:

:joker:

[joeysteele]

Still 3 weeks to go and again this election is being ruined by all the talk of deals and coalitions.
In any election the supposition should be all parties are there to win it,so just ask them about their policies and their visions for the UK.

All this who will you go with, is really annoying,to me anyway. Of course root out the really important policies they parties will fight for the mos but spending interview after interview, hour after hour, day after day harping on about doing a deal with this ,that one or no one, really becomes tedious.

It is like the trident issue with the SNP, Greens and Plaid Cymru.okay they will vote against it, in parliament, the Conservatives will renew all 4,the Lib Dems likely 3, Labour certainly 3 but also 4 if the official guidance is that it is necessary to do so.
UKIP behind renewal too.

So where is the issue,all those votes to renew it and leaving still the SNP,Plaid Cymru and the Greens totally free to vote against as to their conscience.
It is a waste of time even raising the issue,let alone discussing it,yet there it is in every interview.

[arista]

"Still 3 weeks to go and again this election is being ruined by all the talk of deals and coalitions.
In any election the supposition should be all parties are there to win it,so just ask them about their policies and their visions for the UK."



Yes Farage has No Deals made
but his number 2 has set some up ready
its normal.

Last time in 2010
Gordon Browns Team
were not ready for a Coalition
they were not united


David was united and well ready
and got it faster
to become PM.

[joeysteele]

"Still 3 weeks to go and again this election is being ruined by all the talk of deals and coalitions.
In any election the supposition should be all parties are there to win it,so just ask them about their policies and their visions for the UK."



Yes Farage has No Deals made
but his number 2 has set some up ready
its normal.

Last time in 2010
Gordon Browns Team
were not ready for a Coalition
they were not united


David was united and well ready
and got it faster
to become PM.

Not really, David Cameron came through because he was 48 seats ahead of Labour and the fact Labour and the Lib Dems would have had to rely on other parties to govern.
David Cameron wanted a coalition possibly even less than Labour did.

I am aware the parties will be thinking about 'after' the election and working out their talks guidelines.

I was referrring to the interviewers,presenters, the political programming and news and media always going on about who will do this deal with who, which is starting, I am finding on the doorsteps anyway, to annoy voters who are in fact really hearing about and learning less and less as to the parties policies.

[arista]

" interviewers,presenters, the political programming and news and media "

well once you have heard Clegg
every other interview is the Fecking same



I just Hope Crick on Ch4HDNews
digs up a whopper

[arista]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2015/4/15/384557/default/v1/sun-1-720x960.jpg

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2015/4/15/384556/default/v1/mail-1-720x960.jpg

[Vicky.]

My god I wish this kitchen thing would just be let go. I have never before in my lfie seen so much fuss over a kitchen

LOL at the bitch in the bottom though :laugh:

[AnnieK]

My god I wish this kitchen thing would just be let go. I have never before in my lfie seen so much fuss over a kitchen

LOL at the bitch in the bottom though :laugh:

I know....its crazy that the number of kitchens someone has can make first page news ......

[smudgie]

I am more concerned about the about the Labour Peer not being prosecuted for kiddyfiddling due to his age and health.
He deserves a fair trial then throw away the key if he is guilty..and an apology f not.

[joeysteele]

I know....its crazy that the number of kitchens someone has can make first page news ......

It doesn't surprise me with the pathetic Sun, it is so desperate to try to get the Conservatives an overall majority this time, that it has to really dig deeper into the very bottom of its gutter for its reporting.

How this is considered by anyone to be a serious newspaper is beyond me completely.

[bots]

Still 3 weeks to go and again this election is being ruined by all the talk of deals and coalitions.
In any election the supposition should be all parties are there to win it,so just ask them about their policies and their visions for the UK.

All this who will you go with, is really annoying,to me anyway. Of course root out the really important policies they parties will fight for the mos but spending interview after interview, hour after hour, day after day harping on about doing a deal with this ,that one or no one, really becomes tedious.

It is like the trident issue with the SNP, Greens and Plaid Cymru.okay they will vote against it, in parliament, the Conservatives will renew all 4,the Lib Dems likely 3, Labour certainly 3 but also 4 if the official guidance is that it is necessary to do so.
UKIP behind renewal too.

So where is the issue,all those votes to renew it and leaving still the SNP,Plaid Cymru and the Greens totally free to vote against as to their conscience.
It is a waste of time even raising the issue,let alone discussing it,yet there it is in every interview.

In the past I would have completely agreed with you, but when its more than a 50/50 chance of parties working together after the election, I think its important to see who could form alliances as it could affect voting.

If Clegg had been quizzed more before the last election, it may have been obvious that he would sell his granny for a seat at the table, and the lib dems may not have received the seats to allow a coalition

[Crimson Dynamo]

deals and coalitions IS this election

[AnnieK]

It doesn't surprise me with the pathetic Sun, it is so desperate to try to get the Conservatives an overall majority this time, that it has to really dig deeper into the very bottom of its gutter for its reporting.

How this is considered by anyone to be a serious newspaper is beyond me completely.

Completely agree....all the newspapers this time are terribly biased one way or another it seems.

[Crimson Dynamo]

InFifXj2Jak


:joker:

[joeysteele]

In the past I would have completely agreed with you, but when its more than a 50/50 chance of parties working together after the election, I think its important to see who could form alliances as it could affect voting.

If Clegg had been quizzed more before the last election, it may have been obvious that he would sell his granny for a seat at the table, and the lib dems may not have received the seats to allow a coalition

I can agree with that,however we are not being told the detail of their policies anyway so that is another issue.

I am pretty clear already that the Conservatives will do a deal with UKIP and/or the Lib Dems.
The Lib Dems say they won't have any workign arrangement with UKIP however I think if it got them into sahred govt' again for 5 years they would.

It is pretty clear, the SNP, Plaid Cymru and the Greens would not supprt a Conservative govt; in any form whatsoever and in the SNP's case, they would only support a Labour led min gov't or a possible Labour/Lib Dem coalition.

That is all we need to know,in my view and I have learned all that in the last 2 weeks.
No one is saying what are the red lines that would stop them supporting a party in govt; anyway, all they are saying, as with the SNP on trident, the Greens on austerity and UKIP as to an EUY referendum, that they are things they would either support or not support but wouldn't close the door on other means of supporting whatever main party could form a govt:

The interviewers, presenters and programme makers still go on and on and get no answers,in my view they will never get real answers to that questioning,so ask questions of greater detail as to policy.
Such as exactly where will the 12 billion of cuts to welfare be made from the Conservatives.
Also when,will it likely be in 3 to 5 years that Labour plans to clear the deficit or will it be over a longer period.
We all possibly already know from 2010, that likely all Lib Dem policies could be thrown out again in coalitions deals.

The parties are being let off the hook as to policy at present and I really hope tonights opposition debate programme isn't taken up again by who will do a deal with who, rather than policy matters in greater detail.

Canvassing in the streets and on the doorstep, I am finding voters just more and more confused with the 'who will do a deal with who' scenario's.
Sadly for politics, more and more of the voters and likely voters, just being even more turned off by it all too.

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32340976

Richard Desmond, whose publishing company owns the Daily and Sunday Express, has donated £1m to UKIP.

Mr Desmond said UKIP was "not run by elitists" and was a party for "good, ordinary British people".

UKIP leader Nigel Farage said the money would help "significantly" in its fight "against the big battalions".

:clap1:

[joeysteele]

Completely agree....all the newspapers this time are terribly biased one way or another it seems.

You are right AnnieK.
I would never take any notice of any of them,I do read the Independent but that is far as it goes for me and I make my own mind up on issues,I take no notice of the media.

[MTVN]

Funniest front page for me was the Guardian having the massive headline: "The day the polls turned" saying they'd all swung in favour of Labour. A couple of days later the Guardian's own poll gave the Tories a six point lead :joker:

[Marsh.]

This bitch going on about the valleys already.

*turns over*

[billy123]

The poor old monster raving loony party are losing their loony's as loony's become kippers.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32339415

[MTVN]

http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/live-experience/cps/400/amz/vivo/live/images/2015/4/16/78652a81-5e01-44d2-9fe8-80402f5149e1.jpg

Ken Clarke :lovedup: Tory MP no. 1

[billy123]

Scary and funny in equal amounts.

http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/media/images/79464000/jpg/_79464070_79464069.jpg

[Kizzy]

Wow.... :joker:

[MTVN]

And that is why, however respectable a manifesto they try and conjure up, they will never be more than the loony right wing fringe

[Jack_]

Scary and funny in equal amounts.

http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/media/images/79464000/jpg/_79464070_79464069.jpg

Deary ****ing me

[empire]

for the pro eu people, 80 percent of your pensions will go to the eastern countries, so which party will make a referendum to leave, so be careful who you vote for.

[billy123]

for the pro eu people, 80 percent of your pensions will go to the eastern countries, so which party will make a referendum to leave, so be careful who you vote for.You dont half talk some guff :joker: The 80% funded pension argument is an American concern and nothing to do with the UK or the EU and is also widely ridiculed as a great bunch of rot.
:joker::joker::joker:

http://www.actuary.org/files/Pension%20Funding.pdf
http://stump.marypat.org/article/152/new-public-pension-series-the-80-percent-pension-funding-hall-of-shame

[bots]

for the pro eu people, 80 percent of your pensions will go to the eastern countries, so which party will make a referendum to leave, so be careful who you vote for.

Its actually the reverse that's true. Its the incoming immigrants that are funding the pensions paid out currently. That continual influx is needed every year to be able to fund it. Also, many will return to their country of origin before drawing a pension themselves, so its pretty much win win. Something Nigel has failed to mention so far :laugh:

[the truth]

mercy me Leanne wood is the worst welsh rep ive seen.....they used to send down proper politicians in the 70s 80s 90s...now we get this token politicians whos not even an mp...with something to say from Kinnock to Michael foot or jim Griffiths , jim Callaghan, even tarzan Heseltine was a Welshman and for all his faults he was a serious heavyweight...and lets not even talk about proper legends like Lloyd George and neu bevan..even the original founder of the labour party, keir hardie was based in the valleys for decades...this Leanne wood was pathetic...her pandering to the welsh voters who frankly think shes a joke anyway and are NOT the least bit nationalistic (patriotic not nationalistic) most folks in mid wales here would get rid of the welsh assembly tomorrow....all wood does is feigning offence at every other line...demanding miliband stops the cutbacks...yes shes going to pluck the money from the magic tree in the valleys??? if her party actually had a plan to reopen some coal mines they might have a chance of actually making some money???...miliband was of course pathetically weak in response........farage was right to question the audience who only ever cheered when the 3 oddballs from the nationalist and hippy parties demanded spending for all and an end to austerity? farage mentioned the actual facts and figures and they either stayed silent or booed? crackers

[bots]

mercy me Leanne wood is the worst welsh rep ive seen.....they used to send down proper politicians in the 70s 80s 90s...now we get this token politicians whos not even an mp...with something to say from Kinnock to Michael foot or jim Griffiths , jim Callaghan, even tarzan Heseltine was a Welshman and for all his faults he was a serious heavyweight...and lets not even talk about proper legends like Lloyd George and neu bevan..even the original founder of the labour party, keir hardie was based in the valleys for decades...this Leanne wood was pathetic...her pandering to the welsh voters who frankly think shes a joke anyway and are NOT the least bit nationalistic (patriotic not nationalistic) most folks in mid wales here would get rid of the welsh assembly tomorrow....all wood does is feigning offence at every other line...demanding miliband stops the cutbacks...yes shes going to pluck the money from the magic tree in the valleys??? if her party actually had a plan to reopen some coal mines they might have a chance of actually making some money???...miliband was of course pathetically weak in response........farage was right to question the audience who only ever cheered when the 3 oddballs from the nationalist and hippy parties demanded spending for all and an end to austerity? farage mentioned the actual facts and figures and they either stayed silent or booed? crackers


It was one of the most bias audiences I've ever seen on a political programme. They said it had been a specially picked cross section, but i think it was a cross section that represented the opposition leaders. There were no tories in the audience, and I would guess that at least 75% of the audience were left wing, reflecting the political leanings of the leaders. Poor, totally bias debate

[kirklancaster]

It was one of the most bias audiences I've ever seen on a political programme. They said it had been a specially picked cross section, but i think it was a cross section that represented the opposition leaders. There were no tories in the audience, and I would guess that at least 75% of the audience were left wing, reflecting the political leanings of the leaders. Poor, totally bias debate

I agree and have already said as much. Total B.S. as a fair, impartial, and meaningful program.

[MTVN]

Good news for Cameron this morning:

The head of the International Monetary Fund, Christine Lagarde, has endorsed the UK government's economic strategy.

Speaking at an IMF meeting in Washington she said: "It's obvious what's happening in the UK has worked."

Ms Lagarde played down differences between the IMF calculation of the future deficit and the more optimistic one provided by the Office for Budget Responsibility.

She said the figures were virtually the same, but just calculated differently.

George Osborne was sharing a panel with Ms Lagarde and German finance minister Wolfgang Schaeuble when she made the remarks.

"Generally in any election year, the teams that provide the hypotheticals on which future deficits are forecast, err on the side of caution and assume that whatever is announced is not necessarily or inevitably going to happen," she said.

Ms Lagarde added that the UK authorities had managed to provide the right balance of spending cuts and revenue raising.

"It's clearly also delivering results, because when we look at the comparative growth rates delivered by various countries in Europe, it's obvious that what's happening in the UK has actually worked," she said.

The IMF had predicted that the UK will have a deficit of £7bn in 2019-20, while the OBR expects there to be a surplus of £7bn.

Despite the large figures, the difference is just 0.6% of GDP.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-32346214

[Crimson Dynamo]

Good news for Cameron this morning:

yes the elite Old Pals Act is working as normal I see


:fan:

[arista]

Yes the IMF back our PM
as France is in a mess




Come back Capt Remy

[Crimson Dynamo]

Ruth Cadbury, Labour parliamentary candidate for Brentford and Isleworth really showing the electorate just how clued up she is



YTkKJT_BuHA

[Crimson Dynamo]

Outgoing Labour MP Austin Mitchell is claimed to have said "Even a Labour candidate who's an alcoholic and paedophile could win in Grimsby"

what a charmer

9iVRDKJIx6s

[kirklancaster]

Ruth Cadbury, Labour parliamentary candidate for Brentford and Isleworth really showing the electorate just how clued up she is



YTkKJT_BuHA

:joker::joker::joker: They ought to have called her 'FRY' not CADBURY' because her brain's obviously fried. Still this clip's not nearly as damning as a 3 year old clip of Farage talking sense about the NHS. Or is it? :laugh:

[kirklancaster]

Outgoing Labour MP Austin Mitchell is claimed to have said "Even a Labour candidate who's an alcoholic and paedophile could win in Grimsby"

what a charmer

9iVRDKJIx6s

:laugh: Beggars belief - But which numpty is now going to stand in Grimsby for Labour? :joker::joker::joker:

[Vicky.]

IDS solution to the 0 hour contract farce...

http://www.welfareweekly.com/solution-to-zero-hours-contracts-is-to-rebrand-them-says-iain-duncan-smith/

What a ****ing goon that man is. Honestly, I don't think I would have so much dislike for the tories if it wasnt for this ignorant up his own arse wanker.

[Crimson Dynamo]

IDS solution to the 0 hour contract farce...

http://www.welfareweekly.com/solution-to-zero-hours-contracts-is-to-rebrand-them-says-iain-duncan-smith/

What a ****ing goon that man is. Honestly, I don't think I would have so much dislike for the tories if it wasnt for this ignorant up his own arse wanker.

I heard that wanker today he really makes my blood boil:notimpressed:

him and that patronising old fart paddy fecking ashdown

[joeysteele]

IDS solution to the 0 hour contract farce...

http://www.welfareweekly.com/solution-to-zero-hours-contracts-is-to-rebrand-them-says-iain-duncan-smith/

What a ****ing goon that man is. Honestly, I don't think I would have so much dislike for the tories if it wasnt for this ignorant up his own arse wanker.

Shows where they intend to go as to zero hours contracts, only lip service paid as to them and if they are given 5 more years in power,then more and more of these 'flexible' so called contracts wil be almost the norm.

Clearly no plans at all to address the real issue of zero hours contracts.

I consider Ian Duncan Smith the most vile politician there is in any party at present.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Scottish Labour Leader Jim Murphy to lose seat, poll finds


http://cdn.static-economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/full-width/images/2015/04/articles/body/20150418_brp517_0.jpg

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2015/11542392/General-Election-2015-Friday-April-17-Live.html

Nigel reiterates what was blindingly obvious to anyone who watched last night..



disgraceful BBC

smh

[joeysteele]

Scottish Labour Leader Jim Murphy to lose seat, poll finds


http://cdn.static-economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/full-width/images/2015/04/articles/body/20150418_brp517_0.jpg

He won't lose it,I 'd put money on that not happening.
On the day,I still believe Labour will hold onto at least 15 of their seats in the end.

Still a really bad set of results for labour but I feel fairly sure a fair bit of the SNP support is 'soft' support, once voters go to the polling booth,that last minute pull to vote where they usually do,often gets too strong to resist.

Still a fantastic result for the SNP even taking all but 15 of Labour's seats however.
Also of course they will just about wipe out the Lib Dems,probably with the exception of Charles Kennedy and of course the last remaining Conservative MP in Edinburgh as well.

[smudgie]

Surely Zero hour contracts should simply revert to what it really is..casual labour.:shrug:
Then bring in laws as to how long you can employ an individual as casual labour, perhaps after 4 weeks they should be given a contract for guaranteed hours, same amount of hours each week even if it is on a rota.
Stop these bloody big firms using casual labour other than at seasonal times for a start.

[Crimson Dynamo]

the labour zero hours policy will be circumnavigated by business in months

business works at least 2 years ahead of politics

their flagship policy is a bust

[empire]

its time cameron sacked duncan smith, his mind is stuck in the 19th century, the bbc audience where attacking farage, they don't want to face the truth, but to put there fingers in their ears, people who vote labour in grimsby should be ashamed of what they are doing, so if their are men and women in grimsby who are buggering your children, don't run to the ukip office, because you knew who you are voting for,

[joeysteele]

Surely Zero hour contracts should simply revert to what it really is..casual labour.:shrug:
Then bring in laws as to how long you can employ an individual as casual labour, perhaps after 4 weeks they should be given a contract for guaranteed hours, same amount of hours each week even if it is on a rota.
Stop these bloody big firms using casual labour other than at seasonal times for a start.

Absolutely.
Also those on such casual labour contracts should not be included in the employment figures as being among those in full employment.

I have said this before but a supermarket near me, has put all its staff, except for management and supervisors,on 16 hour contracts and to date only a small percentage are getting more hours than that.
However, they cannot even work elsewhere in addition, 'just in case' they are needed at very short notice.
Unbelievable.

[empire]

one thing that pisses me off, is the media keep up with this, attack ukip, and it is every day they have being doing this, none of those people who work in the media would live next door to a group of roma gypsies, the younger generation or blairs generation as I call them, come out of university with degrees, and still have no concept of reality, of how tough life is, the media and students never boo the establishment parties, students say people who vote ukip are uneducated, that shows the huge insult to the british public, and to hard working people in this country,

[MTVN]

one thing that pisses me off, is the media keep up with this, attack ukip, and it is every day they have being doing this, none of those people who work in the media would live next door to a group of roma gypsies, the younger generation or blairs generation as I call them, come out of university with degrees, and still have no concept of reality, of how tough life is, the media and students never boo the establishment parties, students say people who vote ukip are uneducated, that shows the huge insult to the british public, and to hard working people in this country,

Students would certainly boo the Tories and now the Lib Dems as well, admittedly not as much as Ukip but you'll find very few open Conservatives on university campuses

[MTVN]

Looking at this: http://may2015.com/featured/election-2015-new-forecast-confirms-the-campaign-hasnt-changed-polls-how-will-tories-keep-power/

It seems like it's going to be basically impossible for the Conservatives to form a majority. Even a Con-Lib-Ukip-DUP coalition is looking like it would be short of a majority. And the polls have been so static for so long that its hard to see that changing. I'm probably about 90% sure now that it's going to be a Labour government after the election backed by the SNP.

[Vicky.]

Looking at this: http://may2015.com/featured/election-2015-new-forecast-confirms-the-campaign-hasnt-changed-polls-how-will-tories-keep-power/

It seems like it's going to be basically impossible for the Conservatives to form a majority. Even a Con-Lib-Ukip-DUP coalition is looking like it would be short of a majority. And the polls have been so static for so long that its hard to see that changing. I'm probably about 90% sure now that it's going to be a Labour government after the election backed by the SNP.

Blody hell.. I was worried that if Cleggy stuck with Cameron everything would stay as it is..but even if Farage joined suit..still no chance. Unless a massive change by the election I guess :S

My problem is, Labour would have to join forces with SNP and Plaid...who don't give a **** about the UK, only wales and scotland.

Edit.

If it wasn’t for the Lib Dem collapse, Labour would be polling below 30 per cent and Ed Miliband would not have made it to last night’s debate.

Without the Lib Dems, Labour would be on 27 per cent. Or perhaps 28-29 per cent, as some Lib Dems would likely have drifted their way since 2010. But they would not be on 34 per cent, and headed for power in three weeks; defecting Lib Dems account for 7 per cent of Labour’s 34 per cent vote share.

Wow..Clegg really has ****ed the Lib Dems over badly by getting into bed with the Tories :o

[MTVN]

Yeah Clegg keeps dismissing the polls and saying they'll do better than everyone thinks but it doesn't look that way, they'll need to do massively better than expected to renew the Tory coalition and they probs won't have enough seats to make that much difference to Labour either so I can't see how Miliband won't have to turn to the SNP :/

[empire]

here's the thing is that, ukip will take third place in may, nick clegg knows this, half of his votes and seats will go to that party.

[joeysteele]

yes, really however it is in the main just a fair number of original Labour voters going back to Labour.

Labour lost a good number of voters to the Liberals and the then SDP alliance in the 80s,those voters in the main did not return to Labour until 1997.

Then between 2003 and 2010,again there was a shift of mainly Labour voters to the Lib Dems.
Which then saw the Lib Dems get to 24% and have near 60 MPs.

Now disenchanted past Labour voters returned to Labour over this parliament, furious and dismayed at the things Clegg and the Lib Dems have supported in this coalition.
It will not, I feel, be that easy now for the Lib Dems to win those back again,it will take a very long time for them to feel they could trust the Lib Dems again.

[empire]

labour's working class vote is not that high as it used to be, and from what i heard, that they are not going to vote labour in may, many have felt in the white and black working class that labour is a middle and upper class party now,

[joeysteele]

Both main parties have lost a number of voters,especially as more new parties appear and the Nationalists gained strength too.

The Conservatives for instance, still wallowing on 34% now,and even after 13 years in opposition,only going from around 31% to 36% over 4 general elections.
This was the party that regularly polled over 40%.

Labour too have lost the ability to really add on votes since 1997/2001.

Both parties now just about get two thirds of the votes cast between them,well down on the comfortably over 70% and even more they used to command.

[MTVN]

here's the thing is that, ukip will take third place in may, nick clegg knows this, half of his votes and seats will go to that party.

Ukip will have about 3 MPs, at worst Lib Dems get about 20 more than that

[arista]

Scottish Labour Leader Jim Murphy to lose seat, poll finds


http://cdn.static-economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/full-width/images/2015/04/articles/body/20150418_brp517_0.jpg


Labour MP's have said they Hated
him

Ed picked the Wrong Fecker


SNP Kill Labour MP's
Make my day.



Feel The Force

[arista]

Ukip will have about 3 MPs, at worst Lib Dems get about 20 more than that



No you can not guess it

Roll on the Election

[arista]

Ruth Cadbury, Labour parliamentary candidate for Brentford and Isleworth really showing the electorate just how clued up she is



YTkKJT_BuHA


Yes was on Daily Politics
she has lost it

[joeysteele]

Ukip will have about 3 MPs, at worst Lib Dems get about 20 more than that

I think UKIP are ging to be disappointed too as to seats won, they will do well in votes and come 2nd in many seats but fail to take that many.

I think the Lib Dems will fall to under 20 seats,they may just hang on to 20 but somehow,nothing is changing at all for them from the very low base they have been at for ages now.

I think I said this somewhere else,at present there is the expectancy of Labour and the Conservatives getting around 278 to 281 seats each with the SNP getting around 50.
If that really happened than neither Labour or the Conservatives could in any shape or form be able to govern without some agreement with the SNP, no matter what all the other smaller parties may get as to numbers of seats.

[arista]

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/2847880/thumbs/o-BBC-DEBATE-570.jpg


Yes ED you ain't wanted

[Kizzy]

Seeing how he's topping the polls I find that hard to believe.

[joeysteele]

arista is clearly carefully ignoring and avoiding the fact, posted several times on other threads, as to the follow on picture to the one above,where the 3 female leaders all go across to Ed Miliband and away from Nigel Farage.

[arista]

arista is clearly carefully ignoring and avoiding the fact, posted several times on other threads, as to the follow on picture to the one above,where the 3 female leaders all go across to Ed Miliband and away from Nigel Farage.


Yes but its what is being Debated on Huff Post.

Farage shakes there hands at the end.

If its on other threads - so what?



The MP's Edit like Feck


So can I.

[joeysteele]

Yes but its what is being Debated on Huff Post.

Farage shakes there hands at the end.

If its on other threads - so what?



The MP's Edit like Feck


So can I.

Well he is hardly not wanted as you are trying to infer, considering they were trying to persaude and pressure him for well over an hour into joining them into being a force to keep your lot out.

Clearly he is wanted in that case and he is the one 'all' 3 went over 'united' to as well,no matter how it gets 'ED'ited.

[Kizzy]

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/2846782/original.jpg

Lonleeee, farage so lonleee ...he has nobodeeee :joker:

[billy123]

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/2846782/original.jpg

Lonleeee, farage so lonleee ...he has nobodeeee :joker:That really is a picture that speaks a thousand words.

[arista]

Well he is hardly not wanted as you are trying to infer, considering they were trying to persaude and pressure him for well over an hour into joining them into being a force to keep your lot out.

Clearly he is wanted in that case and he is the one 'all' 3 went over 'united' to as well,no matter how it gets 'ED'ited.


We will see on the 7th of May



SNP killing ScottishLabour


Utter Bliss

[Jøsh]

The BNP is not even a main party so I do not know why you have even mentioned them.

If I could vote, it would be for the greens.

Bit late,but I actually meant to say SNP,it's been edited.

[Crimson Dynamo]

We will see on the 7th of May



SNP killing ScottishLabour


Utter Bliss

most of the papers in Scotland leading with the news that the labour leader in Scotland is going to lose his seat

that would be catastrophic

[Crimson Dynamo]

That really is a picture that speaks a thousand words.

yes it shows 3 ladies shaking millibands hand before they turn and shake nigels

at least watch the debate

:rolleyes:

[billy123]

yes it shows 3 ladies shaking millibands hand before they turn and shake nigels

at least watch the debate

:rolleyes:
I did watch it trump you seem to be getting desperate in your attacks. Calm down you seem so angry its not good for you.

[joeysteele]

We will see on the 7th of May



SNP killing ScottishLabour


Utter Bliss

We will see after the 8th May arista,when the results are known,when also hopefully there is a good working arrangement put in place by Labour and the SNP.
Not a full coalition but a minority Labour govt; that will have the support of the SNP,Plaid Cymru, The Greens and the SDLP from Northern Ireland, maybe even the DUP too.

Labour will be the only party of the main 3 UK parties still with fair representation in Scotland and all the losses it 'may' incur will be to a party that thankfully will in no way whatsoever, support the Conservatives in parliament, will not support a Conservative/Lib Dem coalition,and also will not support any grouping as to a govt; that includes UKIP either.

I wouldn't be too sure of the supposed bloodbath happening in Scotland either, a massive amount of voters there are still undecided between Labour and the SNP.
The wide margin in polling does not take that into account.

There is one thing for certain,no matter what happens North of the border,it will in no way whatsoever be of benefit to the Conservatives,Lib Dems or UKIP.
What happens there,even in the worst scenario for Labour, would still result in the likeliest strongest minority Labour govt; there has ever been in the UK,with the Conservatives well and truly out in the cold completely.

[arista]

",even in the worst scenario for Labour,"


Yes so nice it will be,


All you keep on about is guess work
its not even worth you posting
if you keep saying labour win

We just can not call it



But SNP Killing ScottishLabour MPs
is a yes.

Labour are hated in Scotland
blame your Jim

[arista]

most of the papers in Scotland leading with the news that the labour leader in Scotland is going to lose his seat

that would be catastrophic


Yes that makes Great Sense

[joeysteele]

",even in the worst scenario for Labour,"


Yes so nice it will be,


All you keep on about is guess work
its not even worth you posting
if you keep saying labour win

We just can not call it



But SNP Killing ScottishLabour MPs
is a yes.

Labour are hated in Scotland
blame your Jim


Labour will I believe be the largest party after this election,had Scotland not had special circumstances at this time, then Labour would far and away be easily the largest party expected after the election.

What all of us, you included are doing is still only guess work from the polling we see and what we feel personally.
We are giving our opinions and ours are just as valid as yours arista and it is never right to assume anyone should not bother posting just because they post something you disagree with.
You do not 'run' tibb arista,you have no right to suggest anyone should not post.
So I will continue to counteract your 'guesswork' too if that is what you call others opinions who disagree with yours.

Labour are not by the way hated in Scotland, more guess work then on your part that is too.
There are voters disillusioned with Labour and at this time they prefer the SNP to Labour,which is hardly a surprise since the SNP have done a great job in the Scottish parliament.

It is not however the case that Labour are hated in Scotland as you,in my view, wrongly put it.
That is a gross misrepresenation of the actual facts again,since without the SNP, Labour would be romping home in seat after seat in Scotland against all other parties.

[arista]

Farage just on Ch4NewsHD
said he will work with the Conservatives
he does not want a minister car.
He is full aware of what Micheal Gove
has said.


He also gave a great example
Churchill worked with Stalin

Roll on the Election.


Feck off Labour

[arista]

"You do not 'run' tibb arista,"

No I do not.

[Vicky.]

",even in the worst scenario for Labour,"


Yes so nice it will be,


All you keep on about is guess work
its not even worth you posting
if you keep saying labour win

We just can not call it



But SNP Killing ScottishLabour MPs
is a yes.

Labour are hated in Scotland
blame your Jim
Everyones only going on guesses until the actual election though arista. I feel you are being very rude to joey recently. Yes you support the tories, and he (now) supports labour, but theres no need for the snipes all the time D:

I dont feel theres going to be as much of a 'mass wipeout' of labour seats in scotland as some are predicting..same as I am not sure the libdems will lose as many as predicted. But if we dont go on what we think will happen, then its useless talking about the election at all really. Even talking about the manifestos is guesswork, given that 9 times out of 10 they go out of the window once power is given :S

[arista]

"I feel you are being very rude to joey recently."

OK Vicky
no more rude to Joey

I am Conservative
and Honest

[arista]

"I dont feel theres going to be as much of a 'mass wipeout' of labour seats in scotland as some are predicting"

OK


But I hope there is
it is needed
as they are no longer needed in Scotland.

[bots]

Labour will I believe be the largest party after this election,had Scotland not had special circumstances at this time, then Labour would far and away be easily the largest party expected after the election.

What all of us, you included are doing is still only guess work from the polling we see and what we feel personally.
We are giving our opinions and ours are just as valid as yours arista and it is never right to assume anyone should not bother posting just because they post something you disagree with.
You do not 'run' tibb arista,you have no right to suggest anyone should not post.
So I will continue to counteract your 'guesswork' too if that is what you call others opinions who disagree with yours.

Labour are not by the way hated in Scotland, more guess work then on your part that is too.
There are voters disillusioned with Labour and at this time they prefer the SNP to Labour,which is hardly a surprise since the SNP have done a great job in the Scottish parliament.

It is not however the case that Labour are hated in Scotland as you,in my view, wrongly put it.
That is a gross misrepresenation of the actual facts again,since without the SNP, Labour would be romping home in seat after seat in Scotland against all other parties.


I don't see evidence of an amazing turnaround in labour since the last election. The party currently in power always polls much worse than reality, its just human nature, but come election day, I see no reason for labour to be in a better position than they were last time round.

They lost the last election even without any transfer of Scottish seats to SNP, so even a combined labour/snp collective still isn't going to produce a majority without a serious % swing from tory to labour. I see no evidence of any swing, so for me it will be a Tory minority government. There is no evidence to suggest labour have a chance of winning

[joeysteele]

I don't see evidence of an amazing turnaround in labour since the last election. The party currently in power always polls much worse than reality, its just human nature, but come election day, I see no reason for labour to be in a better position than they were last time round.

They lost the last election even without any transfer of Scottish seats to SNP, so even a combined labour/snp collective still isn't going to produce a majority without a serious % swing from tory to labour. I see no evidence of any swing, so for me it will be a Tory minority government. There is no evidence to suggest labour have a chance of winning

I am afraid that is incorrect and if you were to bring up the 'electoral calculus' for instance as one measure,that goes really in depth on electoral analysis.
You will find it currently has a prediction of Conservatives 283 seats and Labour 279,with the SNP on 48.
That is worked out from polling over the last 10 days.
Which in effect,if right,shows a fairly strong change since 2010.

If you also look at the 'polling report' of the latest UK opinion polls.
It is predicting Labour short of an overall majority by 25.
All the polling done now too, takes into account the possible loss of around 30 seats in Scotland from Labour to the SNP.
Check those figures yourself,they are not mine they are from official polling.

Neither main party has a chance of winning outright it seems if the polling is any way right but both do probably have the chance of being the party with most seats, be it only a few either way.
However, the game changer is how many seats the SNP get, any seats they fail to gain will stay with Labour in Scotland,the more that they don't will then add to Labour's tally.

The fact is that even on Sky,the BBC and all other poll of polls over the last week,both main parties are on 34% each across the average of all the polling.
Just that in itself constitutes a drop of 2% for the Conservatives since 2010 from 36% to 34%
It also shows a rise for Labour of 5% from 29% to 34% since 2010.

Those figures alone,if they were correct,actually mean a 3.5% swing from Conservative to Labour overall since the 2010 election.

Don't take my word for it however, you can check it all out yourself if you wat to, Anyone only has to type in 'electoral calculus' to get all the info they present from all the polling done.
It is updated daily too,even listing what seats 'could' be lost from and to which parties.

Of course we all just ignore the polls but then,there is nothing to discuss until May 8th if we do that.
You are sadly incorrect to say nothing has changed since 2010,and really with the rise of UKIP,there is no way to be further sure what is going to be the result in May.
Since UKIP are going hard on seats in the South however in the main,then any real good fortune for UKIP that materialises will likely affect the Conservatives, as Labour do really poorly in the far South anyway.
No one said there was an amazing turnaround for Labour anyway too, I said they would be leading the way if they were likely to hold their position in Scotland.
They are however in contention and that was something they were not in 2010.
While the Conservatives in reality look much further away from an overall majority than they even did in 2010 too.

So with great respect,how you can conclude that it seems nothing has changed since 2010 is a little confusing.

[bots]

You can try and manipulate statistics to say anything. I am saying, there has not been a surge in labour support since the last election and % swing is what dictates a change in government. Without a significant swing, labour have no chance in a first past the post system like we have in the UK. Given the inherent inaccuracies of polls, you would need to be seeing at a minimum 10-15% swing to labour for a labour surge to be in any way genuine. If anything, labour support has gone down since the last election

[arista]

You can try and manipulate statistics to say anything. I am saying, there has not been a surge in labour support since the last election and % swing is what dictates a change in government. Without a significant swing, labour have no chance in a first past the post system like we have in the UK. Given the inherent inaccuracies of polls, you would need to be seeing at a minimum 10-15% swing to labour for a labour surge to be in any way genuine. If anything, labour support has gone down since the last election


Yes Every one has gone down in general
except for UKIP

All the Papers are saying To Close to call.

[joeysteele]

Not so,and really none of that makes sense with full respect.
However I am clearly wasting my time explaining, how it can be said that Labour support has gone down when all the polling suggests they are on 34%,considering they got 29% in 2010,that is not a 'down' figure in any sense.

The Conservatives got 36% of the votes in 2010, they are too are now on 34% in the polling done,which is a 'fall' of 2%,a downward move.
They are not statistsics,they are what voters are saying as to how they will vote in May to something like 8 different polling organisations.

The only parties that have gone down in expected share of the vote since 2010 are the Conservatives and Lib Dems.
The SNP, Plaid Cymru,Labour.the Greens and UKIP are all up on their 2010 share of the votes.

I am sorry but those are facts, however if anyone thinks the polls are not worth anything,then in that case, no one could have or has a clue where the parties may be then,so no one can justifiably say, without taking a guide from the polling.that any party is up or down.
So debate is then totally null and void and pointless.

I thought I was rather good at mathematics but if rising to 34 from 29 is actually going downwards,clearly I am not as good as I thought I was at adding up or subtracting.
Just as if falling to 34 from 36 is actually staying the same or going upwards.

Labour has as miuch chance as the Conservatives in first past the post, actually, the way the Labour votes stack up in many constituencies often brings them more seats than would be expected, even in 2010, the expectancy was for the Lib Dems to be higher than just 57,(there was talk of them having near 100 seats),with Labour to be nearer the 200 mark.
In fact in the first past the post system Labour got 258 seats,which went a fair way to block the Conservatives having an overall majority.

Ironically now it is the Conservatives who seem to be unable to secure overall majorities in first past the post,its is something they haven't done for almost 23 years now.

Also in fact the polling was rather uncannily accurate in 2010 too, the average polling had the Conservatives 7% ahead of Labour who were considered either around level with the Lib Dems or one or the other just ahead of each other.
A hung parliament was forecast all the way through the 2010 campaign and that is what happened, with the Conservatives on a final 36%, 307 seats,Labour on 29%,258 seats and the Lib Dems on 24%,57 seats.

Anyway it is all online to be read and confirmed for anyone who wishes to look it up.
Maths and figures cannot be adjusted by people just to suit their own hope for what they want to happen,than what is more likely to happen.

If you have any other way to prove, bit on the slide, with undisputable figures from any source that Labour is polling less now than in 2010, let's see it.

[Ammi]

..no you're not wasting your time, Joey..( I don't want to get involved in this thread and I'm not going to..)...but I have followed every post you've made and researched many of your points as well...I think as well as manifestos, people also vote for people, the people they believe in and the person they feel that they can trust to implement much needed changes..and what I do feel and know, is that if you were my local MP or indeed a party leader, any party that is...that is very likely the party I would vote for because you inspire me in the future of politics and you're someone I totally believe in and would trust completely...so you really aren't wasting your time at all, I promise you....

[arista]

( I don't want to get involved in this thread and I'm not going to..).

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7021/6727197375_cb4881edc3_m.jpg

[AnnieK]

I agree with Ammi Joey. Your posts are both balanced and well written and have given me and I'm sure others food for thought. You have way more knowledge on these matters than I and I have enjoyed reading your posts and hope to continue to do so. It's an emotive subject but it is about our futures and the future of the UK so worth fighting for.

[kirklancaster]

..no you're not wasting your time, Joey..( I don't want to get involved in this thread and I'm not going to..)...but I have followed every post you've made and researched many of your points as well...I think as well as manifestos, people also vote for people, the people they believe in and the person they feel that they can trust to implement much needed changes..and what I do feel and know, is that if you were my local MP or indeed a party leader, any party that is...that is very likely the party I would vote for because you inspire me in the future of politics and you're someone I totally believe in and would trust completely...so you really aren't wasting your time at all, I promise you....

:clap1: We are diametrically opposed politically, but I agree with you Ammi, that if Joey was my local MP he would inspire a confidence in me (that's been LONG GONE) in the future of politics because of his passion, sincerity and integrity and fairness.

And I also believe that I would trust him completely.

[kirklancaster]

( I don't want to get involved in this thread and I'm not going to..).

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7021/6727197375_cb4881edc3_m.jpg

:joker: I see your point Aristsa - 'The Female Of The Species Is More Deadly Than The Male' :joker:

[Ammi]

( I don't want to get involved in this thread and I'm not going to..).

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7021/6727197375_cb4881edc3_m.jpg

...hmmmm, you're very much wrong Arista, if I had something that I felt I wanted to say in this thread then I would do so...the posts I've been particularly interested in, in the thread have been Joey's, Livia's and Matt's and that's because they have more specific knowledge in politics and if there is something that they have said which has been of particular interest and that I didn't previously know, then I've researched it myself...and that's what I do in my life as well, I talk to people about their own personal issues and their experiences and things that they feel are much in need of change and should be addressed, I also personally know 2 of my local MPs who I also discuss concerns with on various things...I don't post my views on here because it's essentially a TV forum, so I don't feel the need to...and tbh Arista, I don't feel that there's very much 'debate' in the serious anymore and it all becomes far to personal far too quickly, taking most pleasure away from discussing issues....you feel that people who don't post much in this section are 'chickens..'...?...well I think that they're probably most wise to use your words because it's too often fairly unpleasant...and why would I choose to spend leisure time on the internet with such nonsense, that really would be silly...

[arista]

Farage just on Ch4NewsHD
said he will work with the Conservatives
he does not want a minister car.
He is full aware of what Micheal Gove
has said.


He also gave a great example
Churchill worked with Stalin

Roll on the Election.


Feck off Labour



To Add to this News Breaker above
The PM never once attacked UKIP
on Marr this morning

[arista]

"if I had something that I felt I wanted to say in this thread then I would do so"

Great
I look Forward to that


Feel The Force

[Josy]

David Cameron promises bill to legalise fox hunting in Conservative manifesto

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/david-cameron-promises-bill-legalise-5520054

Disgusting man.

[MTVN]

David Cameron promises bill to legalise fox hunting in Conservative manifesto

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/david-cameron-promises-bill-legalise-5520054

Disgusting man.

They promised it in their manifesto in 2010 as well and never did so, I can't see any chance of the government winning the vote on it even if they did bring in a bill in the next parliament tbh

[kirklancaster]

David Cameron promises bill to legalise fox hunting in Conservative manifesto

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/david-cameron-promises-bill-legalise-5520054

Disgusting man.

"the unspeakable in full pursuit of the uneatable." I totally agree.

[MTVN]

I can understand why they would promise it anyway, it's a popular pledge with the traditional countryside vote who barely feel represented anymore

[kirklancaster]

...hmmmm, you're very much wrong Arista, if I had something that I felt I wanted to say in this thread then I would do so...the posts I've been particularly interested in, in the thread have been Joey's, Livia's and Matt's and that's because they have more specific knowledge in politics and if there is something that they have said which has been of particular interest and that I didn't previously know, then I've researched it myself...and that's what I do in my life as well, I talk to people about their own personal issues and their experiences and things that they feel are much in need of change and should be addressed, I also personally know 2 of my local MPs who I also discuss concerns with on various things...I don't post my views on here because it's essentially a TV forum, so I don't feel the need to...and tbh Arista, I don't feel that there's very much 'debate' in the serious anymore and it all becomes far to personal far too quickly, taking most pleasure away from discussing issues....you feel that people who don't post much in this section are 'chickens..'...?...well I think that they're probably most wise to use your words because it's too often fairly unpleasant...and why would I choose to spend leisure time on the internet with such nonsense, that really would be silly...

All true - and the emboldened piece is true and sad.

[kirklancaster]

I can understand why they would promise it anyway, it's a popular pledge with the traditional countryside vote who barely feel represented anymore

They are really coming across as desperate. With this, and the replicating of Thatcher's successful Social Housing and Discounted Shares sell off strategies, I think that they're trying to entice every class of voter.

[joeysteele]

They promised it in their manifesto in 2010 as well and never did so, I can't see any chance of the government winning the vote on it even if they did bring in a bill in the next parliament tbh

If he gets an overall majority he will hold a vote on it, he is under pressure from the so called 'respected hunting' organisations' and only the Lib Dems being in coalition stopped him trying it last time.

He will do it this time if he got an overall majority and if he succeeded,especially with the media backing him on it too,which most of them would, there would be cries of outrage at it being done by even those who will have supported him.

For me, the very sad fact is that he has this even in mind.which says a lot more about him again too and how he will easily cave in to pressure from the more 'elite' sources.

Oscar Wilde I believe said as to foxhunting,'it was the unspeakable in pursuit of the uneatable'
For me it should be an unspeakable policy from anyone,never mind have a Prime Minister that would want to even try to make it legal again.

As I said ages ago, as a child I saw a fox hunted down by the hounds and once exhausted it just had to stop and wait to be torn to pieces alive,then these toby jugs on horseback laughing and drinking, celebrating the barabaric event afterwards,made me really physically sick.
I actually think he could swing a vote behind it this time in parliament if he had an overall majority.
It isn't something he ever seems to want to abandon for sure.

[Kizzy]

He'd promise anything for the 'ya ya vote' as my dad called it, I have faith he won't get a chance.

[MTVN]

If he gets an overall majority he will hold a vote on it, he is under pressure from the so called 'respected hunting' organisations' and only the Lib Dems being in coalition stopped him trying it last time.

He will do it this time if he got an overall majority and if he succeeded,especially with the media backing him on it too,which most of them would, there would be cries of outrage at it being done by even those who will have supported him.

For me, the very sad fact is that he has this even in mind.which says a lot more about him again too and how he will easily cave in to pressure from the more 'elite' sources.

Oscar Wilde I believe said as to foxhunting,'it was the unspeakable in pursuit of the uneatable'
For me it should be an unspeakable policy from anyone,never mind have a Prime Minister that would want to even try to make it legal again.

As I said ages ago, as a child I saw a fox hunted down by the hounds and once exhausted it just had to stop and wait to be torn to pieces alive,then these toby jugs on horseback laughing and drinking, celebrating the barabaric event afterwards,made me really physically sick.
I actually think he could swing a vote behind it this time in parliament if he had an overall majority.
It isn't something he ever seems to want to abandon for sure.

Even if he does hold a vote on it I can't see it passing though, not enough Tory MPs will support it I don't think even if they have a majority. It's not really a new thing from Cameron though - he's always been a big supporter of the traditional rural lifestyle and countryside groups however incomprehensible they are to a lot of people.

[Josy]

They promised it in their manifesto in 2010 as well and never did so, I can't see any chance of the government winning the vote on it even if they did bring in a bill in the next parliament tbh

Even suggesting it makes him disgusting :idc:

[joeysteele]

..no you're not wasting your time, Joey..( I don't want to get involved in this thread and I'm not going to..)...but I have followed every post you've made and researched many of your points as well...I think as well as manifestos, people also vote for people, the people they believe in and the person they feel that they can trust to implement much needed changes..and what I do feel and know, is that if you were my local MP or indeed a party leader, any party that is...that is very likely the party I would vote for because you inspire me in the future of politics and you're someone I totally believe in and would trust completely...so you really aren't wasting your time at all, I promise you....

Thank you Ammi, I really do appreciate all you have said and AnnieK too.

I just say what I know and believe to be right. Adding my own hopes and opinions to it too within the context of the facts.

Politics is a massive passion of mine and it saddens me that it is so divisive.
Thankfully when out campaigning for the party I am doing so for, the responses on the doorstep and the streets are far more compromising and open minded too on lots of issues.
If only that could be encouraged and become the norm in politics.

Last week,for instance, I was out leafleting and across the road was a Conservative activist leafleting too.
We chatted across the road,then decided to do the streets on the same sides of the roads.
No major divisions,except on issues we both held important to us, and it was amazing the conversations we had while doing the leaflets and not just as to politics and the election.
For me, that is how it should be and really could be.

The sad thing is in all parties, there are a majority of 'concensus' politicians whose voices and aspirations are squashed by the louder extremes of both sides of politics.

[joeysteele]

Even suggesting it makes him disgusting :idc:

In my opinion too, it does and it shows his real thinking too.

He says the UK needs more austerity done, Europe needs a shake up, Welfare needs 12 billion more of cuts.

Hey though, with the opportunity to do so if he were to win outright,he thinks, let's bring back foxhunting with dogs on the back of all that too.
As you rightly describe,'disgusting'.

[joeysteele]

Even if he does hold a vote on it I can't see it passing though, not enough Tory MPs will support it I don't think even if they have a majority. It's not really a new thing from Cameron though - he's always been a big supporter of the traditional rural lifestyle and countryside groups however incomprehensible they are to a lot of people.

If he promised backbenchers something they really wanted too, he would be able to swing, maybe reluctantly but still never-the- less support for this.

Since he says he is supposedly so keen on the people deciding things,it surprises me he would not trust their view as leaving foxhunting illegal or making it legal again,via a referendum on the issue.
He could even hold it at the same time as his 'possible' EU referendum at a massively reduced cost.

[bots]

The only parties that have gone down in expected share of the vote since 2010 are the Conservatives and Lib Dems.
The SNP, Plaid Cymru,Labour.the Greens and UKIP are all up on their 2010 share of the votes.


I tried to explain that the current party in government always shows a lower poll rating. But the simple fact is that generally recovers when it comes to polling day and people put their ticks in the box.

Joey, fair play, you are an enthusiastic labour supporter, and believe the data you are reading and think that favours a labour victory. I don't just look at the data, I view from the experience of witnessing more general elections than I care to remember. My belief is that the tories will scrape it with a minority.

There is no point in getting angry or upset about it, don't take it personally, we all have our own opinions, lets just wait and see who is closest to correct when the voting closes ... it won't be long now :douf:

[joeysteele]

I tried to explain that the current party in government always shows a lower poll rating. But the simple fact is that generally recovers when it comes to polling day and people put their ticks in the box.

Joey, fair play, you are an enthusiastic labour supporter, and believe the data you are reading and think that favours a labour victory. I don't just look at the data, I view from the experience of witnessing more general elections than I care to remember. My belief is that the tories will scrape it with a minority.

There is no point in getting angry or upset about it, don't take it personally, we all have our own opinions, lets just wait and see who is closest to correct when the voting closes ... it won't be long now :douf:

I don't think I am saying there will be a Labour victory,I do see the likelihood of a minority Labour govt,supported as a govt; by the SNP, Plaid Cymru,The Greens and the SDLP from Northern Ireland.

All those parties have declared their intention to keep the Conservatives out.
There was no swing back to the govt; in 2010 to Labour, there was also a swing away from the Labour govt; in 2005 too to the opposition,also certainly no swing back at all to John Major's govt; in 1997.

The Conservatives were expected to win in Feb 1974 but there was no swing to them there, it went to the Labour opposition and even further back to 1970, the surprise of the decade was a major swing against the Labour govt; resulting in a Conservative victory.

Fine, you ignore all the polling but you cannot say there even looks like a swing looming to the present govt;
You also have nothing to back up your points that Labour are down on where they were in 2010 and the Conservatives not.

I am not getting angry at all, I was just pointing out all the data there is as to past elections and what is being said as to this one.
You are the one with little 'facts',not me and as I have listed above, there is not always a swing back to the govt; really.

As you say let's wait and see but I am pretty sure on the day, the Conservatives will have les seats and votes than they did in 2010 and Labour will have more seats and votes than they did in 2010.
However if you challenge others facts,you do need to have substance behind your challenge to be fair and with respect.

[arista]

http://img.thesun.co.uk/aidemitlum/archive/02312/02_CWLABOUR_2312240al-363x242.jpg

[kirklancaster]

http://img.thesun.co.uk/aidemitlum/archive/02312/02_CWLABOUR_2312240al-363x242.jpg

:joker: But do you think she wants a relationship with him with 'no strings attached'?

[Kizzy]

' Ed Miliband has always made a virtue of standing up to newspapers and their owners, such as Rupert Murdoch over phone hacking, and the Mail on Sunday over its attack on his father. It appears to have come at a cost, with knives out for him in most of the printed press. This is a sign that the Labour leader is uncowed by newspaper attacks and prepared to move against too much media ownership being in one person or company’s hands (read: Murdoch’s Sun, Times and Sky stable)'


I find it heartening that Ed is still ahead in the polls despite the media offensive against him :)

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/13/labour-election-manifesto-key-points

[Kizzy]

More from Frances Perraudin who is reporting from Portsmouth where Nick Clegg has been speaking today. Clegg has said the Lib Dems would consider forming a government with the second largest party as long as the first had been given enough chance to form a government.

Cleggy assuring the tories he's still a willing bedfellow?

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2015/apr/19/election-2015-live-sturgeon-will-not-rule-out-second-independence-referendum

[Kizzy]

Ed Miliband will reinstate the 50p rate of tax within weeks and grab more powers for Downing Street if he becomes prime minister, The Times has learnt.

The measures are among a list of draft bills already handed to Sir Jeremy Heywood, the cabinet secretary, as Labour makes plans for a new administration.

Mr Miliband wants strengthen the Downing Street machine as he seeks to assert his authority over Whitehall and the Treasury in particular, according to Lord Falconer of Thoroton, his adviser on a transition to government.

As the Labour leader tries to shed his reputation for indecision, he would make more political appointments to the civil service and reinstate a “delivery unit” reporting directly to him at No 10.

[...]

Lord Falconer revealed yesterday that draft legislation for about five priority bills had been prepared.

These include abolishing the rule that penalises council tenants who have a spare bedroom, repealing the Health and Social Care Bill, which introduced sweeping NHS reforms, setting in train a house-building programme and devolving power to the cities and regions.

An emergency budget, held within weeks of the government being formed, would set a new 50p top rate of tax and abolish the “non-dom” tax status as well as putting “fiscal responsibility” into law. The freeze on energy prices, expansion of apprenticeships and ban on zero-hours contracts would also be introduced early on.

Lord Falconer, anticipating claims that Labour was being presumptuous, said voters had a right to know that a Miliband government would seek to act quickly and not engage in “languorous discussions”. He added: “You need a few clear priorities so that the civil service knows what you want to do.”

Mr Miliband would revive the No 10 “delivery unit” — a progress-chasing body that reports to the prime minister — as well as strengthen the Downing Street policy unit, the peer said.'

:cheer2:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2015/apr/19/election-2015-live-sturgeon-will-not-rule-out-second-independence-referendum

[arista]

' Ed Miliband has always made a virtue of standing up to newspapers and their owners, such as Rupert Murdoch over phone hacking, and the Mail on Sunday over its attack on his father. It appears to have come at a cost, with knives out for him in most of the printed press. This is a sign that the Labour leader is uncowed by newspaper attacks and prepared to move against too much media ownership being in one person or company’s hands (read: Murdoch’s Sun, Times and Sky stable)'


I find it heartening that Ed is still ahead in the polls despite the media offensive against him :)

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/13/labour-election-manifesto-key-points


Stop making Up Bollocks

One Poll has him

Other Poll has PM

Poll of Polls

BOTH at 34%


You only give one sided views
pathetic

[Kizzy]

Calm down! The poll I saw had him ahead, no need to be so rude.

[arista]

Calm down! The poll I saw had him ahead, no need to be so rude.


Sure
But there is more than one poll.

You need the Polls of Polls


If only you took off that Red display
you have

[MTVN]

The polls have all been stuck at about 34% for weeks, hard to see them changing unfortunately. I can't really see anything more the Tories can do to boost their rating

[bots]

The polls have all been stuck at about 34% for weeks, hard to see them changing unfortunately. I can't really see anything more the Tories can do to boost their rating

they could confine IDS to the tower of London and throw away the key, that would knock it up a few % points:laugh:

[joeysteele]

Calm down! The poll I saw had him ahead, no need to be so rude.

The yougov poll had labour ahead a poll for the Observer had the Conservatives ahead.

The polls are still saying the same really,the poll of polls at least takes into account all the polling and thereby counteracts probably the error margins either way.

For instance on here last week an ICM poll came out saying the Conservatives were on 39% and Labour 33%,that one was splashed up in all its glory as if it was gospel, while 2 other polls the same day, saying things were neck and neck in one and Labour ahead in one,were completely ignored.

I agree with MTVN, it seems little, if any, change is likely before polling day now.

[Crimson Dynamo]

i love the fact no matter who you vote for

you hate IDS

[Vicky.]

i love the fact no matter who you vote for

you hate IDS

Yes, at the very least, I expect this whole site to be united in this thought.

If anyone disagrees and likes the daft twunt, then I judge you very harshly :suspect:

[Kizzy]

Yes, at the very least, I expect this whole site to be united in this thought.

If anyone disagrees and likes the daft twunt, then I judge you very harshly :suspect:

Ban them vicky :hehe:

And anyone who likes Jacob Reece Mogg too :shudder:

[kirklancaster]

I need some advice; I love both IDS and Jacob Reece Mogg, but I don't know which one's my fave.:hehe:

[Kizzy]

I need some advice; I love both IDS and Jacob Reece Mogg, but I don't know which one's my fave.:hehe:

Vicky!!!!! Ban hammer quick :hehe:

[kirklancaster]

Vicky!!!!! Ban hammer quick :hehe:

:laugh:

[Kizzy]

:laugh:

What you laughing at, I wasn't joking I've reported you...

[joeysteele]

Ban them vicky :hehe:

And anyone who likes Jacob Reece Mogg too :shudder:

I have never liked Ian Duncan Smith,awful man.

The same with Jacob Rees Mogg, there is something really sinister about him ,he is creepy.

[Vicky.]

I need some advice; I love both IDS and Jacob Reece Mogg, but I don't know which one's my fave.:hehe:

Those words said anywhere near each other should guarantee someone a one way ticket to hell, to be quite honest :umm2:

[MTVN]

Gotta love Rees Mogg though

[Kizzy]

Gotta love Rees Mogg though

:fist: He is the stuff of nightmares!

[kirklancaster]

Gotta love Rees Mogg though

I am winding the girls up, and I think you are too. :laugh:

[Vicky.]

Dont actually know who that is..glad, by the sounds of him

[user104658]

I don't think I am saying there will be a Labour victory,I do see the likelihood of a minority Labour govt,supported as a govt; by the SNP, Plaid Cymru,The Greens and the SDLP from Northern Ireland.

All those parties have declared their intention to keep the Conservatives out.
There was no swing back to the govt; in 2010 to Labour, there was also a swing away from the Labour govt; in 2005 too to the opposition.

The Conservatives were expected to win in Feb 1974 but there was no swing to them there, it went to the Labour opposition and even further back to 1970, the surprise of the decade was a major swing against the Labour govt; resulting in a Conservative victory.

Fine, you ignore all the polling but you cannot say there even looks like a swing looming to the present govt;
You also have nothing to back up your points that Labour are down on where they were in 2010 and the Conservatives not.

I am not getting angry at all, I was just pointing out all the data there is as to past elections and what is being said as to this one.
You are the one with little 'facts',not me and as I have listed above, there is not always a swing back to the govt; really.

As you say let's wait and see but I am pretty sure on the day, the Conservatives will have les seats and votes than they did in 2010 and Labour will have more seats and votes than they did in 2010.
However if you challenge others facts,you do need to have substance behind your challenge to be fair and with respect.

The bookies seem to agree with you Joey; a Labour minority government is bookie's favourite by enough of a margin to at least be a strong indicator IMO. Labour minority sitting around 6/4, Tory minority around 3/1. By no means a certainty, obviously. All other options are quite a bit further out.

Most heartening, of course, is seeing "any coalition involving UKIP" sitting away out at around 25/1. :hehe: whew.

[arista]

The SNP Queen is Live on all media now

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://www.snpstore.org/media/catalog/product/cache/1/thumbnail/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/s/n/snp-stronger-for-scotland-button-badge.jpg



Main pledges

Modest spending increase of 0.5% a year, enabling £140bn extra investment

Annual UK target of 100,000 affordable homes

Increase in minimum wage to £8.70 by 2020

Restore the 50p top income tax rate for those earning more than £150,000; introduce a mansion tax and a bankers' bonus tax

Build an alliance against the renewal of Trident

Repatriate any English folks living in Scotland

Retain the triple lock on pensions

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-scotland-32372084

[Kizzy]

http://www.snpstore.org/media/catalog/product/cache/1/thumbnail/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/s/n/snp-stronger-for-scotland-button-badge.jpg



Main pledges

Modest spending increase of 0.5% a year, enabling £140bn extra investment

Annual UK target of 100,000 affordable homes

Increase in minimum wage to £8.70 by 2020

Restore the 50p top income tax rate for those earning more than £150,000; introduce a mansion tax and a bankers' bonus tax

Build an alliance against the renewal of Trident

Repatriate any English folks living in Scotland

Retain the triple lock on pensions

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-scotland-32372084

Hang on.... :suspect:

[MTVN]

Jeremy Browne tearing into the SNP on Daily Politics :clap1:

Funny how desperate the SNP are to have Scotland free from any outside governance or rule by Westminster and yet they are pledging to vote on English-only issues which have nothing to do with Scotland - repealing the Health and Social care act, backing HS2, changing tuition fees in England etc.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Jeremy Browne tearing into the SNP on Daily Politics :clap1:

Funny how desperate the SNP are to have Scotland free from any outside governance or rule by Westminster and yet they are pledging to vote on English-only issues which have nothing to do with Scotland - repealing the Health and Social care act, backing HS2, changing tuition fees in England etc.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/04/20/13/27C7C56F00000578-3046834-image-a-29_1429531255433.jpg

FREEEEEEEEDOOOOOOOOMMME

YA BAWBAGS

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/04/20/11/27C67FC000000578-3046834-image-a-11_1429524247161.jpg

[MTVN]

Labour should call the SNP's bluff. No coalition, no arrangement, put forward their own Queen's speech and the SNP either support it or they vote it down and allow the Tories in and that's on them.

[Josy]

More bull**** from Nicola and her over inflated over publicised ego :bored:

[arista]

More bull**** from Nicola and her over inflated over publicised ego :bored:


Look Josy



Embrace your Queen

[arista]

Jeremy Browne tearing into the SNP on Daily Politics :clap1:

Funny how desperate the SNP are to have Scotland free from any outside governance or rule by Westminster and yet they are pledging to vote on English-only issues which have nothing to do with Scotland - repealing the Health and Social care act, backing HS2, changing tuition fees in England etc.


but he is LibDemy


Labour is now getting ready to deal with
Josy's Queen

[Josy]

Look Josy



Embrace your Queen

Don't be silly Arista, the queen isnt involved in this election, you are getting confused there pal.

[arista]

Don't be silly Arista, the queen isnt involved in this election, you are getting confused there pal.


No

Nicola its like the Scottish Queen

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2c/Nicola_Sturgeon_2.jpg

[arista]

"Marydoll Queen of Scots"


Thats it LT
perfect for 32" LG HD monitor

[kirklancaster]

"Quuen of Scots"? She reminds me of Jeannette Krankie.... "Fantabidozzie":joker:

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS-4QtTZzVxPKyj6hUrn_DnS-6Nn424DLX0Fh5ga0hl2kkJgecyBEoepQ_s

[arista]

Queen of Scots? :laugh:

She reminds me of Jeannette Krankie.... "Fantabidozzie":joker:


No that was years ago


She is now the Scottish Queen
ready to Destroy the Labour deal

[Josy]

Weird that you like her so much Arista, when she hates the English so much :idc:

[arista]

Weird that you like her so much Arista, when she hates the English so much :idc:


But I love the Fact
that SNP kills Scottish Labour MP's


Thats Utter Bliss

[Crimson Dynamo]

"Quuen of Scots"? She reminds me of Jeannette Krankie.... "Fantabidozzie":joker:

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS-4QtTZzVxPKyj6hUrn_DnS-6Nn424DLX0Fh5ga0hl2kkJgecyBEoepQ_s

:joker:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Weird that you like her so much Arista, when she hates the English so much :idc:

:nono:

no she does not hate them


she pities them

[joeysteele]

The launch of the SNP manifesto just shows how easily Labour and the SNP could come to an arrangement.

It is also hardly surprising that since 45% of Scots voted for independence and came so close to getting it too, that they will now support the SNP in all elections.

My hope is for Labour to do really good in England,the East and West Midlands being a possible difficulty for them.
If that can be achieved in the end,then David Cameron and his rather nasty brand of Conservatives will be gone.

I was in the West Midlands briefly yesterday,near my home area too, it was much harder going as to labour I admit,however I found no love for the Conservatives really either.
It's always hard however to work out what may happen in the Midlands.

[arista]

But Joey
Labour does not want the SNP

[joeysteele]

Labour, Conservative, Lib Dems, SNP, UKIP, PC, Geens, DUP, SinnFeinn,in fact all parties don't want any of the others.
However, come the election result,then the realities of the consequences of that result will be obvious.

Whether it is wanted or not, if a party is serious about governing the UK, it will need others to make that possible.
Not wanting them but having to accept them and work together for a time.

You know what, were the SNP open to working with either main party, the Conservatives would be crawling up to them to get some deal too.
All that is wrong with the Conservatives is the SNP have told them clearly to ....., well you know what it is,I won't say it or near describe it.

Whatever is said before May 8th by all the parties,is likely nothing like what will be the reality and what has to be said and done once the full result of the election is known.

As a Labour supporter now myself,I for sure want the SNP and I am finding more and more people every day that also do too.

[MTVN]

A poll has found that the majority of British voters do not want Nicola Sturgeon (54%) or the SNP (59%) to play a role in the next government.

Just 19% said they would like to see the SNP play a part and 22% Ms Sturgeon.

The survey by ComRes for ITV News found that the Liberal Democrats were the most popular choice to act as coalition partners alongside one of the two big parties. Some 36% of those questioned said they would like to see the Lib Dems participate in a new coalition and 31% said the same of their leader, Mr Clegg.

However, 44% said Mr Clegg should have no role and 40% did not want the Lib Dems in government.

ComRes interviewed 2,048 British adults online between April 17 and 19.

Damn right