Mass shooting and hostages taken at gay nightclub in Orlando...

[Ammi]

..I'm just trying to find out more about this but atm, all I can find is this article...


According to reports, an unidentified gunman has barricaded himself and hostages inside Pulse nighclub in Orlando, Florida.

The shooter is understood to have shot at around 20 people.

As the situation escalated, the nightclub tweeted: "Everyone get out of pulse and keep running."

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/522395/gunman-Orlando-nightclub-shooting-hostages


One eye witness suggested there was more than one attacker and it is unclear whether the gunmen are still inside the building.


http://news.sky.com/story/1710712/mass-shooting-at-florida-nightclub-reports

[Crimson Dynamo]

yes just been reported on the radio

[Ammi]

yes just been reported on the radio

...there seems to be some tweets, which is all I can find..and saying that the man has a bomb strapped to him...

https://twitter.com/Stewartmoore

[arista]

Evil

[Kizzy]

Police have detonated a device :/

One witness, Rosie Feba, told the Orlando Sentinel her girlfriend had said someone was shooting but she had assumed it was part of the music at first.

She said: "She told me someone was shooting. Everyone was getting on the floor.

"I told her I didn't think it was real, I thought it was just part of the music, until I saw fire coming out of his gun."

Ms Feba and her girlfriend ran out of the club, helping a man who had been shot on the way out.

The couple were shaken but unhurt.

Another witness, Ricardo J Negron Almodovar, said: "I was there. Shooter opened fire at around 2:00am.

"People on the dance floor and bar got down on the floor and some of us who were near the bar and back exit managed to go out through the outdoor area and just ran.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/florida-nightclub-shooting-hostages-taken-by-attacker-a7077671.html

[Denver]

Terror attack?

[Tom4784]

Terror attack?

It sounds like it, although it sounds domestic in nature rather than an extremist attack.

[Shaun]

Seems too close to the Christina Grimmie thing to be a one-off, surely? :conf2:

[Ammi]

..it hasn't been confirmed but being reported on some sites as a 'lone white extremist'...

[billy123]

Terror attack?What else would it be? a friendly one? Every gun attack by a lunatic is a terror attack.

[Headie]

Apparently Kenya Michaels from Drag Race was there performing, she got out safely though thank god.

Hopefully Orlando security will be a lot tighter after these recent attacks

[T*]

This is awful
There needs to be more security EVERYWHERE in the US
when will they learn about gun laws?

[hot2go]

Guns are evil....and anyone or any countries leaders that endorses them are part of that evil

[Rob!]

And yet the gun laws still remain the same.
The Orlando police have tweeted that there are "mass casualties" and that the shooter is now dead though it's not clear atm whether that's from suicide or police gun fire,.

[Northern Monkey]

Domestic terror according to the FBI.

[Headie]

Around 20 dead :(

[Lostie!]

Another day, another senseless tragedy </3

[Amy Jade]

So so sad to read this :(

I'm not one to wade into the gun debate but they're far too easily to get in the US it's ridiculous

[EspeonBB]

This is really sad :(

I doubt anything will change but the U.S. clearly need to do something about gun control

[Kazanne]

It's awful , we were staying at a villa in Orlando once and heard several gunshots one night ,it was terrifying and that was just the SOUND of them,those poor people. :-(

[MTVN]

Its being reported now that the attacker was an Islamic extremist

[Ninastar]

Absolutely horrific. These cowards always plan to go the the gun free zones so they know that no civilians with guns will be able to stop them. Absolute scumbag.

[Jack_]

I'm going to NY at the weekend :worry:

[Crimson Dynamo]

I'm going to NY at the weekend :worry:

its over 1000 miles away from the incident

[Jack_]

its over 1000 miles away from the incident

I know but like Shaun said what if the two incidents are connected and there's going to be a string of them?

[Tom4784]

I know but like Shaun said what if the two incidents are connected and there's going to be a string of them?

You'll be fine.

[MTVN]

The person who shot Christina Grimmie was a deranged fan wasn't he whereas this looks like a terrorist attack so I can't see there being any connection

[Macie Lightfoot]

is it bad that this **** happens all the time that I'm not even fazed by it anymore? It sucks and people are gonna grieve and lament but nothing will change. Instead of turning it into a gun control debate, conservatives are suddenly pretending to care about gay rights in order to push the Islamophobia agenda :rolleyes:

[Drew.]

742000360118702080

[Firewire]

Absolutely heartbreaking

[AnnieK]

Tragic....RIP to those shot

[MB.]

The worst shooting in US history and our news is covering an old woman's birthday party

Genuinely painful to hear about. RIP all

[lewis111]

This is so devastating and it is just unbelievable that these hate attacks could and still do happen in this day and age
This and yesterday's shooting in the same city should be a huge wake up call for America to do something about their stupid gun laws which kill hundreds but sadly I'm convinced very very little will be changed

[the truth]

This is awful
There needs to be more security EVERYWHERE in the US
when will they learn about gun laws?
their gun laws are simply insane. its a total myth there are any qualifications needed to get a license. any fool can buy them. theres over 300 million guns in circulation in the usa....how on earth are they ever going to reduce that to a reasonable safer level?

[Macie Lightfoot]

nothing's gonna change because criminals are gonna get guns anyway so gun laws won't work, apparently

[Cherie]

Senseless carnage RIP to all the dead

[Pete.]

This was a terrorist attack apparently :o

RIP to the victims

[Tom4784]

Nothing is going to change because the gun business is highly profitable and the NRA has too much sway and can shoot down any attempts at gun laws.

A sea of spilled blood from endless gun crimes doesn't matter to these 'people'.

[bots]

Its a horrifying incident whatever the motives. Comments are already being made about the killers Afghan heritage

[arista]

The Killers dad
has told a USA News
that his son got angry when he
watched 2 men kissing on the street
and this attack appears to come from that.


The killer was a Gun Owner
as he was a Security Guard

He Dad is a Afghan.


Ref : LBC Live

[arista]

I'm going to NY at the weekend :worry:


Stay Alert

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/06/12/16/article-3637414-352E7A5E00000578-159_964x499.jpg

[Ammi]

A mother has told how her son texted her from the club toilets where he was hiding, telling her "I'm gonna die" and "Mommy I love you" before a final text saying: "He's coming."

...jeez, this is heart-breaking...

[ThriceShy]

So the biggest shooting spree in american history was carried out by a muslim democrat. The anti gun lobby will be fuming.

[arista]

So the biggest shooting spree in american history was carried out by a muslim democrat. The anti gun lobby will be fuming.


Yes Tragic Day

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/06/12/16/352EA00600000578-3637414-image-a-125_1465746336503.jpg
The Killer US citizen Omar Mateen, 29,

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3637414/Everyone-running-Gunman-bursts-gay-nightclub-Florida-shoots-20-people-taking-hostages.html

[Livia]

Makes me hope there is a hell.

[the truth]

theres certainly a hell on earth

[Firewire]

So the biggest shooting spree in american history was carried out by a muslim democrat. The anti gun lobby will be fuming.

He was hardly a democrat if he hated gay people

[Will.]

:(

[the truth]

He was hardly a democrat if he hated gay people

some do sadly, there are bigots on all sides

[ThriceShy]

He was hardly a democrat if he hated gay people

Ah the old no true scotsman fallacy.

He was a bona fide card carring member of the Florida democrat party.

[Tom4784]

I think it's a bit silly to make out that democrats can't be homophobic, they most certainly can just like there are republicans who are the complete opposite of what you'd think a republican to be.

[ThriceShy]

Apparently he is the son of Afghan presidential candidate Seddique Mateen.

[ThriceShy]

I think it's a bit silly to make out that democrats can't be homophobic, they most certainly can just like there are republicans who are the complete opposite of what you'd think a republican to be.

I don't think this is about homophobia. It's islamic terrorism. They hate us all.

[Ninastar]

Its a bit silly to be complaining about gun laws when this was a terrorist attack. Yes, America is ****ing ridiculous with its gun laws, but no one complained about gun regulations when this happened in France.

Attacks like this will always happen. No matter what gun laws there are. and like I said earlier, they always happen in anti-gun areas, because people know that if they do it in a place where most civilians do have guns, they will be killed within minutes

[Firewire]

I think it's a bit silly to make out that democrats can't be homophobic, they most certainly can just like there are republicans who are the complete opposite of what you'd think a republican to be.

No that's true but that's not what Thrice was implying

[Firewire]

Its a bit silly to be complaining about gun laws when this was a terrorist attack. Yes, America is ****ing ridiculous with its gun laws, but no one complained about gun regulations when this happened in France.

Attacks like this will always happen. No matter what gun laws there are. and like I said earlier, they always happen in anti-gun areas, because people know that if they do it in a place where most civilians do have guns, they will be killed within minutes

There's been two shootings in Orlando just this weekend. Yes there was an attack in France, but that was a one-off.

Gun laws have to change. It doesn't happen in Britain because people can't get their hands on guns.

[Firewire]

I don't think this is about homophobia. It's islamic terrorism. They hate us all.

It was definitely about homophobia. The killer was Muslim but it hasn't been confirmed that he's linked to ISIS or any other terror organisation. He purposely went into a gay club, during gay pride weekend and killed over 50 gay people. That's not a coincidence.

[Cal.]

A mother has told how her son texted her from the club toilets where he was hiding, telling her "I'm gonna die" and "Mommy I love you" before a final text saying: "He's coming."

...jeez, this is heart-breaking...

:(

[Ninastar]

There's been two shootings in Orlando just this weekend. Yes there was an attack in France, but that was a one-off.

Gun laws have to change. It doesn't happen in Britain because people can't get their hands on guns.

It will happen in Britain soon enough. Gun crime does happen in the UK, but its a lot less common.

I agree that more needs to be done to stop this, but I think its a little heartless to be talking about that when this is the worst attack in american history.

Just my personal opinion but this is a little close to the heart. I've not been upset by something like this so much in a while.

[Cherie]

There's been two shootings in Orlando just this weekend. Yes there was an attack in France, but that was a one-off.

Gun laws have to change. It doesn't happen in Britain because people can't get their hands on guns.

It wasn't a one off what about Charlie Hebdo and the Jewish supermarket hostages, attacks have been thwarted as well, the American guy who took down a shooter on a train

[Firewire]

It will happen in Britain soon enough. Gun crime does happen in the UK, but its a lot less common.

I agree that more needs to be done to stop this, but I think its a little heartless to be talking about that when this is the worst attack in american history.

Just my personal opinion but this is a little close to the heart. I've not been upset by something like this so much in a while.

I agree with you Caitlin that gun control will not end senseless attacks like this. But I think they need to try and do something.

I also agree that it's very upsetting. It could've been any of us celebrating pride.

[Firewire]

It wasn't a one off what about Charlie Hebdo and the Jewish supermarket hostages, attacks have been thwarted as well

Charlie Hebdo was an ISIS attack, though.

The American gun attacks are often Americans (of any colour) carrying out hateful attacks.

[Ninastar]

Well we dont know for sure whether this was ISIS or not.

[Cherie]

Charlie Hebdo was an ISIS attack, though.

The American gun attacks are often Americans (of any colour) carrying out hateful attacks.

Yes I see what you are saying now

[Firewire]

Well we dont know for sure whether this was ISIS or not.

Exactly, but it doesn't matter whether it was or not. 50 people still died regardless who was behind it.

[bots]

well lets face it, ISIS members haven't shown themselves to be particularly tolerant of the gay scene to date.

The Mayor has just said it looks likely there was a connection with ISIS

[Macie Lightfoot]

someone else got arrested who was going to LA Pride with weapons and explosives on him... this is awful

[jaxie]

I'm never going to understand the insane position where the American public think their right to bears arms means it's OK for anyone to be sold an automatic weapon. These should be completely restricted to the armed forces. There is no feasible reason why a member of the public should need to have one.
I am anti gun anyway but semi automatics, why? It makes no sense even if you argue it's for hunting, what are you going to bullet spray the bunnies?

[ThriceShy]

Well we dont know for sure whether this was ISIS or not.

The shooter apparently phoned the police during the attack and said he was acting on behalf of Isis.

[Northern Monkey]

There's been two shootings in Orlando just this weekend. Yes there was an attack in France, but that was a one-off.

Gun laws have to change. It doesn't happen in Britain because people can't get their hands on guns.
It's not that hard to get hold of a gun in the UK.You just can't walk into a supermarket and buy one.The problem with guns in the UK is they're not registered to anyone so you can't identify who it belongs to.
Over here the criminals have guns but your everyday person does'nt so if you're in an armed robbery you just have to stand defenceless and hope for the best.

[Shaun]

Its a bit silly to be complaining about gun laws when this was a terrorist attack. Yes, America is ****ing ridiculous with its gun laws, but no one complained about gun regulations when this happened in France.

To be fair, it's a little more difficult to smuggle firearms into America than it is into France... especially if by extremists. I don't know how thorough the screening process is in buying firearms but the ability for them to be stolen and sold on the black market is a problem in itself.

[Firewire]

The shooter apparently phoned the police during the attack and said he was acting on behalf of Isis.

Yes I'm shooting up a club full of people.

Wait let me call the police and waste three minutes of my time allowing people to escape!

[ThriceShy]

I'm never going to understand the insane position where the American public think their right to bears arms means it's OK for anyone to be sold an automatic weapon. These should be completely restricted to the armed forces. There is no feasible reason why a member of the public should need to have one.
I am anti gun anyway but semi automatics, why? It makes no sense even if you argue it's for hunting, what are you going to bullet spray the bunnies?

The right to bear arms in America is not about hunting. It is about being able to resist a tyrannical government. They will never give their guns up and rightly so. An attempt to disarm them would be a bloodbath.

Paris doesn't have legalised guns but the balaclava attack happened. Terrorists will always get guns.

[Ninastar]

The shooter apparently phoned the police during the attack and said he was acting on behalf of Isis.

really? Thats ****ing horrific

[ThriceShy]

Yes I'm shooting up a club full of people.

Wait let me call the police and waste three minutes of my time allowing people to escape!

He was in the club for 3 hours.

[Firewire]

really? Thats ****ing horrific

I don't understand why this is an important factor at all

[Ninastar]

Because it shows that ISIS are a bigger threat than previously thought...

[Firewire]

It was one person so doesn't really have an impact on the size of ISIS

[ThriceShy]

Before people start ridiculing posts, could they learn the basic facts.

This was a hostage situation. He was holding hostages until 5am. The police were negotiating with him. This was virtually a carbon copy of the balaclan. He had a suicide vest.
This was a terror attack.

[Drew.]

Been keeping up with the updates on twitter.. haven't really seen anything that proves its terrorist related, haven't seen anyone saying he phoned the police either.

Sounds to me it was just a mentally unhinged guy, parents basically saying he was homophobic and his ex girlfriend saying he used to beat her. Too early to jump to conclusions though

[Ninastar]

It was one person so doesn't really have an impact on the size of ISIS

Whether it was one person or 20, does it really matter? If this has been done by ISIS, this is yet another attack on innocent people this year. How many has it been now? 15 this year! Over 1000 people in total.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_linked_to_ISIL#2016

It can happen anywhere and it will.

[ThriceShy]

Been keeping up with the updates on twitter.. haven't really seen anything that proves its terrorist related, haven't seen anyone saying he phoned the police either.

Sounds to me it was just a mentally unhinged guy, parents basically saying he was homophobic and his ex girlfriend saying he used to beat her. Too early to jump to conclusions though

The police are treating it as a terrorist incident. I think their opinion trumps yours.

[Firewire]

Been keeping up with the updates on twitter.. haven't really seen anything that proves its terrorist related, haven't seen anyone saying he phoned the police either.

Sounds to me it was just a mentally unhinged guy, parents basically saying he was homophobic and his ex girlfriend saying he used to beat her. Too early to jump to conclusions though

I absolutely agree, Drew. People jump to conclusions all of the time in an event like this, especially the media. I've seen Donald Trump tweet about radical Islamic extremism with absolutely no source or accurate facts.

I did see tweets about the homophobia. A gay club during gay pride was chosen, I don't think ISIS care much about people expressing their sexuality in Orlando. They hate all Western people equally. Regardless of who was responsible, 50 people tragically lost their lives in a place they are supposed to feel safe and free and queer.

This shouldn't be a debate on ISIS.

[Drew.]

The police are treating it as a terrorist incident. I think their opinion trumps yours.

As they do with more or less every shooting incident. There's just no evidence yet until they come out and confirm anything

[Firewire]

Whether it was one person or 20, does it really matter? If this has been done by ISIS, this is yet another attack on innocent people this year. How many has it been now? 15 this year! Over 1000 people in total.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_linked_to_ISIL#2016

It can happen anywhere and it will.

15 Isis attack at his year versus over 370 gun attacks

But no, ISIS is the issue.

[Macie Lightfoot]

The right to bear arms in America is not about hunting. It is about being able to resist a tyrannical government.

It was also about stopping slave revolts so the historical context is important.

[Firewire]

The police are treating it as a terrorist incident. I think their opinion trumps yours.

Of course it's a terror attack. 50 people died. Whether it's Islamic or anything else, it is based on homophobia. Terrorism related to political views, this is one.

[Livia]

Been keeping up with the updates on twitter.. haven't really seen anything that proves its terrorist related, haven't seen anyone saying he phoned the police either.

Sounds to me it was just a mentally unhinged guy, parents basically saying he was homophobic and his ex girlfriend saying he used to beat her. Too early to jump to conclusions though

It's been reported both on NBC and the BBC that he called 911 before the shootings and pledged his allegiance to Islamic State.

The FBI has said it was an act of terrorism.

That's pretty conclusive for me.

[ThriceShy]

As they do with more or less every shooting incident. There's just no evidence yet until they come out and confirm anything

The police were already investigating him for radical Islam threats. He swore allegiance to Isis in a call to police


Http://crimeblog.dallasnews.com/2016/06/mass-shooting-reported-at-orlando-nightclub-hostage-situation-feared.html/

If you still aren't convinced then what evidence would convince you?

[Firewire]

But the BBC reported earlier that he was not on the US terror list?

[Ninastar]

Put the news on Jonathan. They're saying he's from ISIS now.

[Drew.]

It's been reported both on NBC and the BBC that he called 911 before the shootings and pledged his allegiance to Islamic State.

The FBI has said it was an act of terrorism.

That's pretty conclusive for me.

The police were already investigating him for radical Islam threats. He swore allegiance to Isis in a call to police


Http://crimeblog.dallasnews.com/2016/06/mass-shooting-reported-at-orlando-nightclub-hostage-situation-feared.html/

If you still aren't convinced then what evidence would convince you?

You seem to be under the impression i'm fighting his corner or something, i don't need convincing, my points were it's too early to come to the conclusion without evidence and i didn't see any at the time i originally posted. If there is now evidence then fair enough, i believe it

[Ninastar]

15 Isis attack at his year versus over 370 gun attacks

But no, ISIS is the issue.

I'm sorry but this is completely different and totally irrelevant.

[Livia]

But the BBC reported earlier that he was not on the US terror list?

That's a list of people they know of. You can Google the list.

[Livia]

You seem to be under the impression i'm fighting his corner or something, i don't need convincing, my points were it's too early to come to the conclusion without evidence and i didn't see any at the time i originally posted. If there is now evidence then fair enough, i believe it

Not at all, Drew. I just replied to stuff you were querying... sorry if you thought I was having a pop at you.

[Gusto Brunt]

Absolutely horrifying. All those families lives devastated.

[Ninastar]

Its those text that have upset me more than anything. I just cant even imagine what all those people trapped in there have gone through. ugh, this is depressing me

[Denver]

The UK will be next and its rather worrying

[Samm]

Tragic :( RIP to all the innocent victims, the gun laws in america are so ****ed up and stupid, but they'll never learn

[Drew.]

Not at all, Drew. I just replied to stuff you were querying... sorry if you thought I was having a pop at you.

It's cool.. i didn't want my argue for him being mentally unstable by being homophobic and beating his ex girlfriend to come across like i was using that as a reason and excuse for him potentially not carrying out terrorist acts

[Ninastar]

Something a little heartwarming...

https://www.facebook.com/jimhobart/videos/vb.1273035747/10209685512235913/?type=2&theater

Look at all these people lining up to give blood. How thoughtful :love:

[lewis111]

I don't really think it's accurate to say the UK is next as other attacks for example the ones in Paris and 9/11 were attacks on western civilisation and not really one group f people. This man was clearly targeting he LGBT community so it seems quite disconnected from other attacks

An attack on the UK is near enough inevitable bit I don't think today's attack fits in with the others and should he discussed separately and used as a time to talk about uS gun laws rather than ISIS which I still don't believe has been confirmed

[Ninastar]

I don't really think it's accurate to say the UK is next as other attacks for example the ones in Paris and 9/11 were attacks on western civilisation and not really one group f people. This man was clearly targeting he LGBT community so it seems quite disconnected from other attacks

An attack on the UK is near enough inevitable bit I don't think today's attack fits in with the others and should he discussed separately and used as a time to talk about uS gun laws rather than ISIS which I still don't believe has been confirmed

Its been confirmed as Isis...

[Braden]

RIP to those who have lost their lives through this tragic ordeal, and my thoughts are with the those who witnessed the event. Truly dreadful news.

[Northern Monkey]

I don't think this is about US gun laws.If he did'nt have a gun then he would've got one.It was obviously a planned attack.If someone's gonna do this in any country then they will find the means.There are guns in every country.

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

The good Muslim community need to start taking ownership and work together to identify and neutralize the bad eggs. Your cousins are plotting upstairs while you eat downstairs and watch Eastenders. I don't want to die on the tube. I'm taking that White Jihadist woman threats seriously to avoid the tube in June-July.


RIP to the people at the club. Sad times.

[T*]

It was definitely about homophobia. The killer was Muslim but it hasn't been confirmed that he's linked to ISIS or any other terror organisation. He purposely went into a gay club, during gay pride weekend and killed over 50 gay people. That's not a coincidence.

This.

[Denver]

I don't really think it's accurate to say the UK is next as other attacks for example the ones in Paris and 9/11 were attacks on western civilisation and not really one group f people. This man was clearly targeting he LGBT community so it seems quite disconnected from other attacks

An attack on the UK is near enough inevitable bit I don't think today's attack fits in with the others and should he discussed separately and used as a time to talk about uS gun laws rather than ISIS which I still don't believe has been confirmed

They threatened the US and the UK would be next andlook what has happened

[Tom4784]

Yeah, I don't think it's related to IS or religion. There's a lot of differences if you compare it to other recent IS attacks, IS attacks tend to be more broad, they'll attack a general area rather than targeting specific types of people in a specific place.

To say that this isn't a gun control issue is a bit ignorant, the shooter was a US citizen and I'd bet money that the gun was acquired legally because that's the case most of the time. Tightening gun laws won't get rid of gun crime but it will certainly reduce the amount of massacres occur in the US. Look at the UK, in 26 years of being alive there's only been two major shooting incidents that I can recall happening here. Australia tightened gun laws in the 90's after a massacre and I don't think there's been another major shooting in Australia since.

Unfortunately tighter gun controls will never be an option in America due to how profitable the industry is.

[Ammi]

..there is no confirmation that this is any terrorist group, though...he may have pledged his allegiance to ISIS..(apparently..)..but so far as is known, he wasn't directed by them in these killings../that's still being investigated ...but he's still thought to be a lone gunman who was mentally unstable and a hate killing...

..he had been known to the FBI for a few years but they had found no connections or communications with ISIS..?...

[ThriceShy]

Yeah, I don't think it's related to IS or religion. There's a lot of differences if you compare it to other recent IS attacks, IS attacks tend to be more broad, they'll attack a general area rather than targeting specific types of people in a specific place.

To say that this isn't a gun control issue is a bit ignorant, the shooter was a US citizen and I'd bet money that the gun was acquired legally because that's the case most of the time. Tightening gun laws won't get rid of gun crime but it will certainly reduce the amount of massacres occur in the US. Look at the UK, in 26 years of being alive there's only been two major shooting incidents that I can recall happening here. Australia tightened gun laws in the 90's after a massacre and I don't think there's been another major shooting in Australia since.

Unfortunately tighter gun controls will never be an option in America due to how profitable the industry is.


IS have officially claimed responsibility for it

http://news.sky.com/story/1710850/islamic-state-claims-worst-shooting-in-us-history

[Tom4784]

IS have officially claimed responsibility for it

http://news.sky.com/story/1710850/islamic-state-claims-worst-shooting-in-us-history

They claim responsibility for every attack going if they are involved or not, whether they are truly behind it is yet to be determined.

[Kizzy]

I just don't feel this was an organised ordered terrorist attack, it's a lone guy and it just seems so random, I know he stated he was committing this act in the name of ISIS I just don't get that it came from them.
He is a terrorist regardless, and this was a act of terrorism

[Liberty4eva]

Tragic :( RIP to all the innocent victims, the gun laws in america are so ****ed up and stupid, but they'll never learn

This comment is wrong in so many ways.

[Braden]

This comment is wrong in so many ways.

Please explain. I genuinely want to know why.

[ThriceShy]

They claim responsibility for every attack going if they are involved or not, whether they are truly behind it is yet to be determined.

Which attacks have they claimed responsibility for falsely?

Your desire to deny this is what it is, is quite frankly bizarre. The shooter was a known radical who said he was about to commit an Isis attack and Isis have confirmed that he was one of their lads. The police, governor and homeland security have all stated it is an islamic terror attack.

What more evidence do you want?

[Cal.]

He was a member of ISIS and he was repulsed by gays.

[Tom4784]

Which attacks have they claimed responsibility for falsely?

Your desire to deny this is what it is, is quite frankly bizarre. The shooter was a known radical who said he was about to commit an Isis attack and Isis have confirmed that he was one of their lads. The police, governor and homeland security have all stated it is an islamic terror attack.

What more evidence do you want?

It's a well known tactic of theirs, if they claim responsibility for every attack going it makes them look more powerful and threatening. Chances are the gunman was acting alone, I doubt very much that IS even knew who this man was never mind being in contact with him. He wasn't working with anyone else, most legitimate IS attacks are organised in groups.

This has all the markings of an act of domestic terrorism rather than Islamic terrorism. To falsely attribute this tragedy to Isis gives them more power.

[MB.]

I think it might be time to separate Serious Debates and News again

[ThriceShy]

He was a member of ISIS and he was repulsed by gays.

All Muslims are repulsed by gays. It is part of their religion.

[Tom4784]

All Muslims are repulsed by gays. It is part of their religion.

Bit of a generalisation there. Every religion going has demonised homosexuality but that doesn't make every religious person a homophobe.

[Marsh.]

All Muslims are repulsed by gays. It is part of their religion.

Speaking on behalf of a LOT of people there.

[MB.]

All Muslims are repulsed by gays. It is part of their religion.

I know plenty of tolerant Muslims, not to mention plenty of non-Muslims (and non-religious people at that) who have homophobia ingrained in their culture. Tarring everybody with the same brush won't resolve anything in the slightest

[Firewire]

All Muslims are repulsed by gays. It is part of their religion.

Zayn Malik is a Muslim and loves the gays

[ThriceShy]

It's a well known tactic of theirs, if they claim responsibility for every attack going it makes them look more powerful and threatening. Chances are the gunman was acting alone, I doubt very much that IS even knew who this man was never mind being in contact with him. He wasn't working with anyone else, most legitimate IS attacks are organised in groups.

This has all the markings of an act of domestic terrorism rather than Islamic terrorism. To falsely attribute this tragedy to Isis gives them more power.

So it is just coincidence that he claimed to be operating for Isis first. I see.

The truth of the natter will emerge of course as the FBI are now working round the clock to find out exactly who he associated with. He was already known to police as a radical so he must have been up to something.

Trump, IMO has the right idea about not letting Muslims into America now until their reasons are verified and background checked

[Smithy]

Honestly find it hilarious when people say that gun control isn't an issue here, of course it is, whether he was a member of a terrorist organisation or not is irrelevant the fact is that this US CITIZEN easily and legally obtained a firearm and 50 people are dead because of it

[MB.]

Trump, IMO has the right idea about not letting Muslims into America now until their reasons are verified and background checked

And that would have prevented this attack by an American Muslim under investigation from the FBI how?

[Liberty4eva]

Please explain. I genuinely want to know why.

The most obvious way it is wrong is it is not appropriate to discuss issues like guns when this just happened. Now is the time to mourn.

[Firewire]

And that would have prevented this attack by an American Muslim under investigation from the FBI how?

tbh

[GiRTh]

Terrible tragedy.

[Firewire]

The most obvious way it is wrong is it is not appropriate to discuss issues like guns when this just happened. Now is the time to mourn.

So when is the right time? People die from gun crime every day... Of course this is the right time to make a stand.

[Marsh.]

The most obvious way it is wrong is it is not appropriate to discuss issues like guns when this just happened. Now is the time to mourn.

It's not an appropriate time to discuss gun laws at a time when said laws have caused the deaths of so many innocent people that could've been easily prevented?

:umm2:

[ThriceShy]

And that would have prevented this attack by an American Muslim under investigation from the FBI how?

I'd go further. Anyone showing signs of radicalism should be lobbed out. This guy would have been.

A muslim cleric in Orlando in April said that all gays should be murdered. How on earth is he still there

[ThriceShy]

It's not an appropriate time to discuss gun laws at a time when said laws have caused the deaths of so many innocent people that could've been easily prevented?

:umm2:

Did France's complete ban on guns cause the balaclan massacre?:shrug:

[Firewire]

I'd go further. Anyone showing signs of radicalism should be lobbed out. This guy would have been.

A muslim cleric in Orlando in April said that all gays should be murdered. How on earth is he still there

You can't be "lobbed out" if you're a native to a country. That's not how it works.

[Marsh.]

I'd go further. Anyone showing signs of radicalism should be lobbed out.

If only it were that simple.

[Liberty4eva]

Honestly find it hilarious when people say that gun control isn't an issue here, of course it is, whether he was a member of a terrorist organisation or not is irrelevant the fact is that this US CITIZEN easily and legally obtained a firearm and 50 people are dead because of it

I think France has some of the most strict gun laws. Can you explain how this didn't stop the ISIS attack that hit Paris?

[Tom4784]

So it is just coincidence that he claimed to be operating for Isis first. I see.

The truth of the natter will emerge of course as the FBI are now working round the clock to find out exactly who he associated with. He was already known to police as a radical so he must have been up to something.

Trump, IMO has the right idea about not letting Muslims into America now until their reasons are verified and background checked

The guy was a mass murderer that wanted attention so I wouldn't take his claims as gospel without proper investigation.

According to reports I've read it stated that he was under investigation but for an unrelated crime, he wasn't on any watchlists as a potential terror suspect. He wasn't known to the authorities as a danger in that regard.

Trump has never had the right idea about anything and using this tragedy to justify your islamaphobia is quite sick.

[Marsh.]

Did France's complete ban on guns cause the balaclan massacre?:shrug:

I'll give you a chance to make that at all relevant to what I said. Not that I have faith you can.

[Firewire]

I think France has some of the most strict gun laws. Can you explain how this didn't stop the ISIS attack that hit Paris?

Because they weren't from France

[ThriceShy]

If only it were that simple.

Well you seem to think guns are to blame and not radical Muslims so I expected you to say that.

[Marsh.]

I think France has some of the most strict gun laws. Can you explain how this didn't stop the ISIS attack that hit Paris?

Nobody is claiming it will stop crime/murder/attacks in their tracks completely. Evil will always be in the world.

But it doesn't have to be as easy, LEGAL, and as common as it is in America for an all out bloodbath.

[Marsh.]

Well you seem to think guns are to blame and not radical Muslims so I expected you to say that.

I've not said any such things love. Try again.

[Black Dagger]

... this forum.

[ThriceShy]

I'll give you a chance to make that at all relevant to what I said. Not that I have faith you can.

France has a gun ban but terrorists shoot people. America allows guns and terrorists shoot people.

Seems like the terrorists are the common link, not the gun laws.

[Smithy]

I think France has some of the most strict gun laws. Can you explain how this didn't stop the ISIS attack that hit Paris?

Because people managed to smuggle arms in across land borders??


You can't compare a country like the US which has HUNDREDS of shootings a year to a country like France where there's stricter gun laws and one mass shooting in recent memory, which was a terrorist attack, it's absurd

The us is the only country with such lax gun laws and the only country where it frequently happens

[Tom4784]

If your argument against gun control is that it won't stop all gun crime then you might as well campaign against all laws since none of them completely stop crime but they do curb it.

[Liberty4eva]

It's not an appropriate time to discuss gun laws at a time when said laws have caused the deaths of so many innocent people that could've been easily prevented?

:umm2:

Yeah, and criminals always obey the gun laws.

[Marsh.]

France has a gun ban but terrorists shoot people. America allows guns and terrorists shoot people.

Seems like the terrorists are the common link, not the gun laws.

The terrorists in Paris weren't French and they weren't legally allowed to easily obtain the weapons to cause their destruction with. Hence why it doesn't happen every week over there.

[ThriceShy]

Nobody is claiming it will stop crime/murder/attacks in their tracks completely. Evil will always be in the world.

But it doesn't have to be as easy, LEGAL, and as common as it is in America for an all out bloodbath.

Switzerland has more guns owned per head than America. Yet it has virtually no gun crime

[Marsh.]

Yeah, and criminals always obey the gun laws.

Yeah, just as everyone always obeys all laws.

But I'd take incidents like this being a shocking rarity over a sad weekly occurrence.

[ThriceShy]

The terrorists in Paris weren't French and they weren't legally allowed to easily obtain the weapons to cause their destruction with. Hence why it doesn't happen every week over there.

You think it is difficult for terrorists to obtain guns in a country that bans them?

[Marsh.]

Switzerland has more guns owned per head than America. Yet it has virtually no gun crime

And my neighbour owns more cars than everyone in my family. Your point?

[ThriceShy]

Yeah, just as everyone always obeys all laws.

But I'd take incidents like this being a shocking rarity over a sad weekly occurrence.

Terror attacks happen no more often in America than they do in France.

[Marsh.]

You think it is difficult for terrorists to obtain guns in a country that bans them?

You think every horrid case of mass shootings in America is some major global terrorist group?

Do some research.

[Marsh.]

Terror attacks happen no more often in America than they do in France.

Gun crime and mass death happens more often in America at the hands of regular citizens than it does a "terrorist".

[Tom4784]

Switzerland has more guns owned per head than America. Yet it has virtually no gun crime

Incorrect. In terms of guns per capita, the US dwarfs everyone else and is double the size of Switzerland's.

[ThriceShy]

And my neighbour owns more cars than everyone in my family. Your point?
The point is that it must be the people not the guns.

[Denver]

Zayn Malik is a Muslim and loves the gays

Yet he doesn't act like one :idc:

[Smithy]

Yet he doesn't act like one :idc:

Well if thriceshy's right he's probably planning to blow up at his next concert and take all his fans with him

[Liberty4eva]

Because people managed to smuggle arms in across land borders??


You can't compare a country like the US which has HUNDREDS of shootings a year to a country like France where there's stricter gun laws and one mass shooting in recent memory, which was a terrorist attack, it's absurd

The us is the only country with such lax gun laws and the only country where it frequently happens

No, Switzerland has guns and you never hear about gun violence there. If the gun was the problem you would expect there to be mass shootings.

[Marsh.]

The point is that it must be the people not the guns.

Yes. So don't give the people the guns so fecking easily. Quite a simple connection but you got there in the end.

[Tom4784]

Terror attacks happen no more often in America than they do in France.

Of course they do, you'd be silly to think otherwise. A man going into a school and shooting it up is a terror attack. Someone going into a cinema and murdering people is a terror attack. Every time there's a gun massacre in the US it is an act of terror.

It's not just religious people with brown skin that are capable of terrorism.

[ThriceShy]

Incorrect. In terms of guns per capita, the US dwarfs everyone else and is double the size of Switzerland's.

But guns are legal in Switzerland aren't they. So why doesn't it have the problems that America has?

[Marsh.]

But guns are legal in Switzerland aren't they. So why doesn't it have the problems that America has?

Because they're not American? :hehe:

[ThriceShy]

Of course they do, you'd be silly to think otherwise. A man going into a school and shooting it up is a terror attack. Someone going into a cinema and murdering people is a terror attack. Every time there's a gun massacre in the US it is an act of terror.

It's not just religious people with brown skin that are capable of terrorism.

The police clearly state that they aren't treating the lone gunman attacks as terrorism. Because they aren't terrorism. Terrorism needs a cause. The sandy hook shooter wasn't a terrorist. Timothy mcveigh was a terrorist. You must see the difference.

[MB.]

Yet he doesn't act like one :idc:

What is this even supposed to mean

I despair

[ThriceShy]

Because they're not American? :hehe:

Bingo!

[Marsh.]

You must see the difference.

Yes. It's quite clear they don't feed into your anti-foreigner agenda.

[Jamie89]

Devastating news, thoughts are with the family and friends of the victims :sad:

[Marsh.]

What is this even supposed to mean

I despair

Adam is an expert on how a Muslim should behave.

Who knew?

[ThriceShy]

Yes. It's quite clear they don't feed into your anti-foreigner agenda.

I have just said Timothy mcveigh, a white American, was a terrorist. So where is the anti foreigner agenda?

[lewis111]

Are people actually using this moment to defend current gun laws in America :umm2:

[Smithy]

No, Switzerland has guns and you never hear about gun violence there. If the gun was the problem you would expect there to be mass shootings.

Gun ownership is declining in Switzerland it stands at about 25% now as apposed to the ~45% of Americans, extrapolate the population figures and you see how many guns there are in each country. The majority of guns in Switzerland are because most men are conscripted into the army, anyone else who wishes to buy a gun had to undergo psychological evaluation something which doesn't happen in the US, which is why there's so many ****ing nut jobs shooting people

[Marsh.]

I have just said Timothy mcveigh, a white American, was a terrorist. So where is the anti foreigner agenda?

You were including him in your Muslim hate speech? Sorry, I must've missed that.

[Denver]

What is this even supposed to mean

I despair

A good muslim wont act like a wild child slut

[arista]

Islamic State Claims Worst Shooting In US History

http://news.sky.com/story/1710850/islamic-state-claims-worst-shooting-in-us-history

[The Islamist terror group ISIS claims one of its "fighters" is responsible
for the deadliest mass shooting in modern US history.]

[Tom4784]

But guns are legal in Switzerland aren't they. So why doesn't it have the problems that America has?

Moving the goal posts I see....

People in Switzerland undergo mandatory Military Training and they keep the equipment they use during training at home which can be converted to private use after their training is concluded. The difference between Switzerland and US is that almost all gun owners in Switzerland are trained extensively and aren't as likely to abuse them.

You should honestly try to research these things before you attempt to use them as points in a discussion.

[ThriceShy]

You were including him in your Muslim hate speech? Sorry, I must've missed that.

What muslim hate speech? Terrorists are terrorists and there are plenty of white domestic ones. But the danger at the minute is Isis and radical Islam. There is nothing anti muslim about saying that Muslims coming to America should be vetted.

[Marsh.]

What muslim hate speech? Terrorists are terrorists and there are plenty of white domestic ones. But the danger at the minute is Isis and radical Islam. There is nothing anti muslim about saying that Muslims coming to America should be vetted.

You were discussing banning Muslims from entering the country and throwing American Muslims out. Dress it up however you want, it's clear what it is.

[ThriceShy]

Marsh, what is responsible for this latest attack? Is it gun laws or radical Islam?

[AnnieK]

The Fbi etc will get to the bottom of the who's and whys and for whoms ......the mai. Focus for today should be on the people who have lost their lives in this atrocity. Gun laws, IS, extremists etc are secondary at the moment to the families who's lives have just been torn apart needlessly

[Liberty4eva]

Gun ownership is declining in Switzerland it stands at about 25% now as apposed to the ~45% of Americans, extrapolate the population figures and you see how many guns there are in each country. The majority of guns in Switzerland are because most men are conscripted into the army, anyone else who wishes to buy a gun had to undergo psychological evaluation something which doesn't happen in the US, which is why there's so many ****ing nut jobs shooting people

Wrong.

[Marsh.]

Marsh, what is responsible for this latest attack? Is it gun laws or radical Islam?

A crazy psychopath who was given way too easy access to a lethal weapon via stupid laws.

[Smithy]

Wrong.
... I just ... :laugh2:

[ThriceShy]

You were discussing banning Muslims from entering the country and throwing American Muslims out. Dress it up however you want, it's clear what it is.

I said neither. I said don't let them in unless their reasons and background has been checked. I said kick out ones who were displaying radical behaviour.

The future president, Trump, agrees

[LaLaLand]

I'm just in total shock at this, what a horrific event. It just leaves me cold it's awful, those poor, poor people.

[Tom4784]

Wrong.

Excellent explanation there.

[ThriceShy]

A crazy psychopath who was given way too easy access to a lethal weapon via stupid laws.

So he wasn't a terrorist acting for ISIS?

[Marsh.]

I said neither. I said don't let them in unless their reasons and background has been checked. I said kick out ones who were displaying radical behaviour.

And the non-Islamic people? Are they given the same treatment? Or?

The future president, Trump, agrees

"Trump agrees" isn't a validator of anyone's opinions. :smug:

[Marsh.]

So he wasn't a terrorist acting for ISIS?

So he was a terrorist acting for ISIS?

[ThriceShy]

So he was a terrorist acting for ISIS?

I asked first

[Marsh.]

I asked first

Well, nothing has been confirmed apart from the words of a murdering psychopath.

[Tom4784]

I asked first

There's no real proof to suggest he was at this stage, unsubstantiated claims don't tend to hold up when you consider how different this act of terrorism was in comparison to an Isis terror attack.

The attack resembles a (sadly) typical American mass shooting, he wasn't highly organised and in cahoots with anyone like most terrorists who commit IS attacks are.

[Liberty4eva]

This may come as a shock to people but even if there are gun control laws criminals will still be able to get guns. The places in the US with the greatest gun violence are the places with the strictest gun laws. All they do is prevent law abiding citizens from owning them.

[Marsh.]

This may come as a shock to people but even if there are gun control laws criminals will still be able to get guns. The places in the US with the greatest gun violence are the places with the strictest gun laws. All they do is prevent law abiding citizens from owning them.

Yeah, murder will never be able to be completely prevented, so why try to diminish the number as much as possible, eh? It's only life.

[Cal.]

All Muslims are repulsed by gays. It is part of their religion.

No they don't? I have multiple Muslim friends who accept me as gay?

[Liberty4eva]

Because they're not American? :hehe:

You are a wise guy. Hope you someday get some decency.

[Shaun]

This may come as a shock to people but even if there are gun control laws criminals will still be able to get guns. The places in the US with the greatest gun violence are the places with the strictest gun laws. All they do is prevent law abiding citizens from owning them.

Until they decide to stop abiding the law.

[Smithy]

This may come as a shock to people but even if there are gun control laws criminals will still be able to get guns. The places in the US with the greatest gun violence are the places with the strictest gun laws. All they do is prevent law abiding citizens from owning them.

This is literally the stupidest ****ing thing I've read on this site

[ThriceShy]

This is literally the stupidest ****ing thing I've read on this site

You must have few people on ignore then.:joker:

[Marsh.]

You are a wise guy. Hope you someday get some decency.

You're the one defending the right for America to remain the bloodbath it's been for many years.

In comparison, I am positively angelic.

[Tom4784]

This may come as a shock to people but even if there are gun control laws criminals will still be able to get guns. The places in the US with the greatest gun violence are the places with the strictest gun laws. All they do is prevent law abiding citizens from owning them.

Again, no laws completely stop crime but they curb them. If we go by your incredibly flawed logic then there's no point in any laws because they aren't 100% effective.

[Smithy]

Oh get off the moral high-ground Alex & Jackson :bored:

Screaming

[Shaun]

I knew Alex and Jackson were against gun control :inamood:

[Tom4784]

I knew Alex and Jackson were against gun control :inamood:

Bastards.

[ThriceShy]

Again, no laws completely stop crime but they curb them. If we go by your incredibly flawed logic then there's no point in any laws because they aren't 100% effective.

Gun laws will never stop terrorists. Apart from anything else, they don't even need guns. You can make a bomb from ingredients bought in a chemist.

The killers of Lee rigby used a car and a knife. We wont be banning those.

This isn't a gun issue. It's a muslim terrorist issue.

[Braden]

****ing hell. Sorry guys.

[Liberty4eva]

Gun laws will never stop terrorists. Apart from anything else, they don't even need guns. You can make a bomb from ingredients bought in a chemist.

The killers of Lee rigby was killed by a car and a knife. We wont be banning those.

This isn't a gun issue. It's a muslim terrorist issue.

The first post I've read here so far that makes sense.

[Tom4784]

Gun laws will never stop terrorists. Apart from anything else, they don't even need guns. You can make a bomb from ingredients bought in a chemist.

The killers of Lee right used a car and q knife. We wont be banning those.

This isn't a gun issue. It's a muslim terrorist issue.

Yes, America doesn't need stricter gun control because it won't stop the occasional Islamic terrorist attack, who cares if it will help prevent domestic terrorist attacks that are carried out using legal fire arms?? They aren't usually committed by people with a different colour skin to you and follow a religion you're frightened of.

Honestly, at least TRY to think about what you're typing before you post it.

[Marsh.]

It's a muslim terrorist issue.

And we're back to Muslim hate speech.

You're honestly so comical.

[Marsh.]

The first post I've read here so far that makes sense.

The biggest prevention of change is the denial that there's a problem.

[Ammi]

...sometimes this forum leaves you speechless for all of the wrong reasons...I can think of better alternative threads for the pack versus ThriceShy Part 2....

[Marsh.]

...sometimes this forum leaves you speechless for all of the wrong reasons...I can think of better alternative threads for the pack versus ThriceShy Part 2....

:conf:

I don't think the forum not really agreeing with racism makes them a "pack".

[ThriceShy]

The first post I've read here so far that makes sense.

All my posts make sense.:laugh:

[ThriceShy]

...sometimes this forum leaves you speechless for all of the wrong reasons...I can think of better alternative threads for the pack versus ThriceShy Part 2....

You gotta admit though, its funny watching the pack lose every time.

[Marsh.]

You gotta admit though, its funny watching the pack lose every time.

Aww, bless. The delusion is real.

[Smithy]

You gotta admit though, its funny watching the pack lose every time.

Being in denial and not accepting being wrong doesn't make you a winner, it makes you ignorant

[ThriceShy]

:conf:

I don't think the forum not really agreeing with racism makes them a "pack".

Islam is a race?:shrug:

[ThriceShy]

Being in denial and not accepting being wrong doesn't make you a winner, it makes you ignorant

What am I wrong about?

This was an Isis attack, as confirmed by everyone official and their dog. The only deniers are people saying that it wasnt.

[Liberty4eva]

http://www.peoplespunditdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/gun-control-experts-agree.jpg

[bots]

What am I wrong about?

This was an Isis attack, as confirmed by everyone official and their dog. The only deniers are people saying that it wasnt.

ISIS have taken credit for it, that doesn't mean it was an ISIS organised attack. Only time will tell if he had direct contact with ISIS members or not.

[arista]

[The Islamist terror group (ISIS) claims one of its "fighters" is responsible
for the deadliest mass shooting in modern US history.

Islamic State Claims Worst Shooting In US History]

http://news.sky.com/story/1710850/islamic-state-claims-worst-shooting-in-us-history

[Ninastar]

...sometimes this forum leaves you speechless for all of the wrong reasons...I can think of better alternative threads for the pack versus ThriceShy Part 2....

x2

i am so pissed off its unreal

[Marsh.]

What am I wrong about?

This was an Isis attack, as confirmed by everyone official and their dog. The only deniers are people saying that it wasnt.

Everyone official - The words of the crazy murderer himself.

Ok.

[lewis111]

Reading the tects that that boy Eddie sent to his mum is so heartbreaking, especially because it looks like he didn't make it </3

[the truth]

so guns and terrorists combine horrific

[Kizzy]

Islam is a race?:shrug:

Hey if Jewish can be a race I don't see why not. :shrug:

[MB.]

...sometimes this forum leaves you speechless for all of the wrong reasons...I can think of better alternative threads for the pack versus ThriceShy Part 2....

Wise words, Ammi

[Denver]

I dont know why people are getting so defensive over it being a confirmed Isis attack?

[Kizzy]

You gotta admit though, its funny watching the pack lose every time.

Is calling you out on ignorant comments such as 'All Muslims are repulsed by gays. It is part of their religion' enough label you a pack member?
Sign me up then.

[arista]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2016/6/12/471055/default/v1/the-sun-1-750x563.jpg

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2016/6/12/471050/default/v1/times-1-750x563.jpg

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2016/6/12/471053/default/v2/mirror-two-1-750x563.jpg

[Kizzy]

He was a security guard? strangely in our newsletter at work we were warned to be vigilant for insiders acting suspiciously.

[ThriceShy]

Everyone official - The words of the crazy murderer himself.

Ok.

I see. So you don't think he is an ISIS terrorist. Let's see what the FBI unearth.

[Marsh.]

I see. So you don't think he is an ISIS terrorist. Let's see what the FBI unearth.

I haven't claimed he's one or the other. I don't take the words of a psychopath at face value.

[Firewire]

x2

i am so pissed off its unreal

At?

[ThriceShy]

I haven't claimed he's one or the other. I don't take the words of a psychopath at face value.

What evidence would convince you he is?

[Marsh.]

What evidence would convince you he is?

Any ACTUAL evidence would suffice.

[ThriceShy]

Any ACTUAL evidence would suffice.

Be specific.

At the moment, we know that he himself claimed to be working for ISIS and ISIS have claimed responsibility and we know that he was already known to the police as a radical.

We also know that the police, FBI, Governor, Homeland Security and and Predident have all said it was an Islamic terror attack.

What specifically would convince you that he is an ISIS terrorist? Do you even agree that he is an Islamic terrorist? If you don't, why should your opinion be more compelling to me than the FBI and the police?

[Marsh.]

Be specific.

At the moment, we know that he himself claimed to be working for ISIS and ISIS have claimed responsibility and we know that he was already known to the police as a radical.

We also know that the police, FBI, Governor, Homeland Security and and Predident have all said it was an Islamic terror attack.

What specifically would convince you that he is an ISIS terrorist? Do you even agree that he is an Islamic terrorist? If you don't, why should your opinion be more compelling to me than the FBI and the police?

I haven't claimed any such opinion as more compelling than the FBI or the police.

I have not claimed he is ISIS or not.

I am not claiming facts that I have no evidence of.

That would be you. And when you've been called out you fixate on a non existent point until your humiliation is lost a few pages back.

[ThriceShy]

I haven't claimed any such opinion as more compelling than the FBI or the police.

I have not claimed he is ISIS or not.

I am not claiming facts that I have no evidence of.

That would be you. And when you've been called out you fixate on a non existent point until your humiliation is lost a few pages back.

It is a fact he is an ISIS terrorist. Unless you can give me a reason to doubt the word of him and ISIS and law enforcement then I will accept their word. You are in a tiny minority of people trying to deny this obvious ISIS terrorist attack. I have no idea why you would wish to absolve them in this way.

[ThriceShy]

Do you agree that he is an Islamic terrorist Marsh?

[arista]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2016/6/12/471049/default/v1/daily-t-1-750x563.jpg

[Marsh.]

It is a fact he is an ISIS terrorist. Unless you can give me a reason to doubt the word of him and ISIS and law enforcement then I will accept their word. You are in a tiny minority of people trying to deny this obvious ISIS terrorist attack. I have no idea why you would wish to absolve them in this way.

I haven't done any such thing. You're deflecting.

[ThriceShy]

I haven't done any such thing. You're deflecting.

Do you agree that he is an Islamic terrorist?

[Marsh.]

Do you agree that he is an Islamic terrorist?

For the thousandth time, I'm going to wait for the full report and evidence to be presented. Not feed into the ridiculous frenzy over half truths and the words of a murderer.

[ThriceShy]

For the thousandth time, I'm going to wait for the full report and evidence to be presented. Not feed into the ridiculous frenzy over half truths and the words of a murderer.

The FBI say he was. Why would I doubt their word? They aren't media.

[Tom4784]

According to the latest reports I've read the FBI have stated that they haven't actually found any links between the shooter and Isis apart from the shooter's claims.

Isis want the credit for this attack, they want to be known for dealing the biggest blow against America since 9/11 and I'm going to be very reluctant to give them what they want without solid evidence.