Preventing Islam becoming a state religion

[Kazanne]

Well I believe in God and am not ashamed of it in any way neither should I be,I agree with Cherie,people believe what they want,they dont need opinions shoving down their throats,that is what causes the grief people thinking they know the truth and forcing it on others.

[user104658]

I believe a lot of the bible is metaphorical

The thing is, though, interpretations of the bible that consider it to be metaphorical and allegorical are not part of any major organised religion... so the original intention of bible stories when written are largely irrelevant to the legitimacy of modern organised religion. I mean, really the best you can say is that if the original authors were to time travel to the present, they'd be like "Oh **** people actually took our morality tales literally?? LOL wups!"

I guess like... Tolkien and JK Rowling travelling 2000 years into the future and finding people fighting over who was the true great savior; Frodo Baggins or Harry Potter.

[Kizzy]

I agree with this, our priest at Christmas touched on this as well, that 25th Dec is just a symbolic date etc..he is an incredibly intelligent man, I should go more often as he gives very thought provoking sermons, I don't know why non religious folk are so desperate to prove this and that, some people believe in ghosts, live and let live for goodness sake

Don't you mean religious folk are desperate to prove this and that to make sense of their particular dogma?....
So what if some people believe i ghosts, hows that any different from believing in angels?

live and let live is basically what believers with no specific religion do isn't it?

[DemolitionRed]

The thing is, though, interpretations of the bible that consider it to be metaphorical and allegorical are not part of any major organised religion... so the original intention of bible stories when written are largely irrelevant to the legitimacy of modern organised religion. I mean, really the best you can say is that if the original authors were to time travel to the present, they'd be like "Oh **** people actually took our morality tales literally?? LOL wups!"

I guess like... Tolkien and JK Rowling travelling 2000 years into the future and finding people fighting over who was the true great savior; Frodo Baggins or Harry Potter.

Hehe, well that's one way of looking at it.

The way I look at it is; to bring together and have an obedient mass of people, they needed universal teaching. Religions writing gave people a moral compass/signpost between right and wrong. Just as May makes the masses believe that they are looking out for their people, the bible had the masses believing in good versus evil. For me, the bible or any religion is just like politics... its all about mind control.

[DemolitionRed]

The thing is, though, interpretations of the bible that consider it to be metaphorical and allegorical are not part of any major organised religion... so the original intention of bible stories when written are largely irrelevant to the legitimacy of modern organised religion. I mean, really the best you can say is that if the original authors were to time travel to the present, they'd be like "Oh **** people actually took our morality tales literally?? LOL wups!"

I guess like... Tolkien and JK Rowling travelling 2000 years into the future and finding people fighting over who was the true great savior; Frodo Baggins or Harry Potter.

Are you suggesting that the bible (old testament) that was written by a group of poets, was bastardized at a later date to form a very deliberate organized religion ?

[Cherie]

Don't you mean religious folk are desperate to prove this and that to make sense of their particular dogma?....
So what if some people believe i ghosts, hows that any different from believing in angels?

live and let live is basically what believers with no specific religion do isn't it?

You mad cow I was making the same point as you re ghosts, :laugh: the only ones on this thread insulting others are non believers so not sure where your first comment is coming from

[Northern Monkey]

I'm reading the the Bible now.I'm not religious.I just find it fecking fascinating.If you're into history and how people thought thousands of years ago i think it's a great read.Specially the Old Testament.Yes it's just stories but many of the places are real.It's also great if you're into ancient Egypt.This was written in the time of the New Kingdom.Bare in mind that Egypt and the pyramids etc etc were all ancient by then.Infact more time had passed from the pyramids being built than from the creation of the bible to now.Even though the characters were probably made up it gives you an insight into how people viewed Egypt all those years ago.

[Northern Monkey]

The fact that no theory can be outright proven does not make all theories equal, though. Where's the logic in that? Where does it end? If you believe that then you can't deny ANY theory. If I have a theory that Katie Hopkins took a day off from The Sun and created the universe... Is that as equally open to being considered a legitimate possibility?

Of course it isnt - it doesn't make sense, it is illogical, the likelihood of it being correct is SO unimaginably small that it can be confidently declared to be straight up false.

The point is that there are near infinite possible theories about space, time and life and it's extremely unlikely that any human theory is entirely correct. Purely because it's unlikely that we even have a concept of the science behind it yet (or maybe, ever). However that doesn't mean that the likelihood of a singularity and the big bang isn't significantly MORE likely than any religious theory. Vague spirituality and belief in some form of higher life form or intelligent creation is perfectly possible. It's not even unlikely, I would say. It's pretty much 50/50 as to whether the universe is borne of deliberate design or simply of order randomly emerging from chaos over infinite time. However, the "human gods" of organised religion, and every single word of every religious text ever written, can only be concluded to be SO unlikely as to be considered effectively false. As false at the Katie Hopkins theory, or the theory that the planet is simply a condensed hairball coughed up by a huge intergalactic space cat. "God of some sort"? Possibly. Organised religion? Nonsense and fairytales.Yeah i agree with this.I think the big bang is a more likely scenario and the fact that we can still see the afterglow or cosmic microwave background makes that a likely possibility.I think our universe is possibly just the product of a giant supernova explosion.What's fecking baffling is that the expansion is actually speeding up rather than slowing as you'd expect :shrug:

Anyway.Our universe is just the tip of the iceberg.There had to be a universe in which to create our universe.

[Kizzy]

You mad cow I was making the same point as you re ghosts, :laugh: the only ones on this thread insulting others are non believers so not sure where your first comment is coming from

That wasn't clear tbf :idc:

[the truth]

I'm not going to get overly upset about religions not having rights tbqh, especially one that treats women like second class citizens :shrug:

Christianity doesnt, Islam does
they are different , to say they are the same isnt just wrong its discrimination

[Livia]

You do realise this is an Islamophobic comment don't you? Every religion has it's fundamentalists, even yours.

Again here we have the premise that if you are not religious you are a non believer which is totally wrong.


This is a debate forum, I have every right to speak as I find. You are under no obligation to respond.


Ahhh right. I was told that I was accused of Islamaphobia while I was away. And of course, Kissy is the oracle of whatis, and what isn't, Islamaphobic... because she.... no, remind me why again?

I would remind you that Islamic terrorist were responsible for the death of my husband so my judgement against Islamic terrorists is coloured. Also, I've just returned from Israel where Islamic Palastinians threw a party after the Manchester bomb killed and maimed children. Balancing that out, I don't accept that all Muslims are terrorists, not at all. It's a fact though, that right now, all terrorists are Muslim.

So thanks for the baiting... it made me laugh out loud it was so cynical and expected.

[Kazanne]

isn't the Queen like the head of the Church or something? But i know what you mean, all that crap is out dated and should be totally separate

I dont think it's fair to call it 'crap' tbh,some people get great comfort from religion,I am one of them believe it or not.

[Niamh.]

I dont think it's fair to call it 'crap' tbh,some people get great comfort from religion,I am one of them believe it or not.

Sorry but that's just my opinion on it, having been brought up with it force fed to me through school :shrug:

[the truth]

Yeah i agree with this.I think the big bang is a more likely scenario and the fact that we can still see the afterglow or cosmic microwave background makes that a likely possibility.I think our universe is possibly just the product of a giant supernova explosion.What's fecking baffling is that the expansion is actually speeding up rather than slowing as you'd expect :shrug:

Anyway.Our universe is just the tip of the iceberg.There had to be a universe in which to create our universe.

exactly no one can explain so no one really knows, the reality is atheists though are far more arrogant than Christians. Atheists talk in definites, when they havent a clue. Christians simply have a faith. They also raise 100s of billions for the worlrds poorest and sickest people and do great work across the globe. The vast majroity are great people and they do not have a massive terrorist problem the same way as Islam. I consider Christianity a vastly superior religion.

[Kazanne]

Sorry but that's just my opinion on it, having been brought up with it force fed to me through school :shrug:

No need to be sorry Niamh,each to their own,I never force it on other people it's a personal thing.:wavey:

[Northern Monkey]

exactly no one can explain so no one really knows, the reality is atheists though are far more arrogant than Christians. Atheists talk in definites, when they havent a clue. Christians simply have a faith. They also raise 100s of billions for the worlrds poorest and sickest people and do great work across the globe. The vast majroity are great people and they do not have a massive terrorist problem the same way as Islam. I consider Christianity a vastly superior religion.

Now i am quite open minded.I accept that science knows very little beyond our galaxy and even solar system.
My problem with people taking the story of creation/Genesis literally is that much of it,Infact most of it contradicts things that are known today with evidence to back them up and the timeline.
Also the fact that it is so earth centric when the reality is that the earth is little more than a spec of dust in the context of our universe and is probably not all that special.
Why would the word of god only inform us of our miniscule existence and nothing beyond our planet.
It is imo because this is a Jewish story with influences from even older religions written by mankind to try and understand the then totally unexplained.
As for the creation of the universe it is my opinion that humanity is way too small to ever understand it beyond the aftermath of the big bang.

[Niamh.]

Now i am quite open minded.I accept that science knows very little beyond our galaxy and even solar system.
My problem with people taking the story of creation/Genesis literally is that much of it,Infact most of it contradicts things that are known today with evidence to back them up and the timeline.
Also the fact that it is so earth centric when the reality is that the earth is little more than a spec of dust in the context of our universe and is probably not all that special.
Why would the word of god only inform us of our miniscule existence and nothing beyond our planet.
It is imo because this is a Jewish story with influences from even older religions written by mankind to try and understand the then totally unexplained.
As for the creation of the universe it is my opinion that humanity is way too small to ever understand it beyond the aftermath of the big bang.

I saw something recently about this, the question some religious people ask about - but who created the universe then? you can say maybe it's always existed, who created God then? Maybe he's always existed..........stale mate :laugh:

[Northern Monkey]

I saw something recently about this, the question some religious people ask about but who created the universe then? you can say maybe it's always existed, who created God then? Maybe he's always existed..........stale mate :laugh:

Exactly.I have pondered these questions myself and gone into that never ending mental wormhole and came to the conclusion that the usable parts of the human mind can never comprehend it.Maybe if we keep trying then in another million years we might evolve to use the other parts of our brain and understand a little more.

[the truth]

Now i am quite open minded.I accept that science knows very little beyond our galaxy and even solar system.
My problem with people taking the story of creation/Genesis literally is that much of it,Infact most of it contradicts things that are known today with evidence to back them up and the timeline.
Also the fact that it is so earth centric when the reality is that the earth is little more than a spec of dust in the context of our universe and is probably not all that special.
Why would the word of god only inform us of our miniscule existence and nothing beyond our planet.
It is imo because this is a Jewish story with influences from even older religions written by mankind to try and understand the then totally unexplained.
As for the creation of the universe it is my opinion that humanity is way too small to ever understand it beyond the aftermath of the big bang.

The Bible is a fascianting book, part history, part theology, part parables, part brutal , part factual, part symbollic, allegorical.. etc etc Theres endless things that can be learned and understood from it, regardless of your religion or atheism. Now was it written by God? Was Jesus the son of God. I cant answer that. Why was it mainly about the earth (certain passages refer to the stars and even the horoscopes get a mention) was it amended to suit some agenda and rewritten, why were so many passages left out? The mass of questions goes on and on)

some can it all literal some take is symbollic....some a bit of both

Its interesting to note that the majority of great scientists were religious and saw no contradiction, they saw the 2 worlds as seperate subjects. They were also smart enough to know neither the Bible nor science has all the answers and they dont always have to be in conflict with each other.

The universe is way beyond our comprehension and always will be but its still fascinating and its great that humanity will always remain curious , open minded and try to learn more

[Niamh.]

Exactly.I have pondered these questions myself and gone into that never ending mental wormhole and came to the conclusion that the usable parts of the human mind can never comprehend it.Maybe if we keep trying then in another million years we might evolve to use the other parts of our brain and understand a little more.

Isn't that a myth that humans don't use all their brain?

https://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/tenper.html

But yes I agree with you that whatever the truth is we're not capable of understanding it, but this is why I don't believe in religions (all them) idea of a god, all the silly rules that seem to go with it just seem ridiculous to me, that a being with such power would be that pernickety and ridiculous to care whether you fancy men or fancy women or whatever or whether you eat pork or only fish on Fridays etc etc

[the truth]

Isn't that a myth that humans don't use all their brain?

https://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/tenper.html

But yes I agree with you that whatever the truth is we're not capable of understanding it, but this is why I don't believe in religions (all them) idea of a god, all the silly rules that seem to go with it just seem ridiculous to me, that a being with such power would be that pernickety and ridiculous to care whether you fancy men or fancy women or whatever or whether you eat pork or only fish on Fridays etc etc

Jesus didnt say a word about homosexuality, so why thats ever brought up is a mystery to me

[Niamh.]

Jesus didnt say a word about homosexuality, so why thats ever brought up is a mystery to me

You wonder why it's brought up? Seriously? If Jesus didn't say a word about Homosexuality then why are so many religions against gay marriage and gay relationships in general? Mystery solved, you're welcome.

[Northern Monkey]

Isn't that a myth that humans don't use all their brain?

https://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/tenper.html

But yes I agree with you that whatever the truth is we're not capable of understanding it, but this is why I don't believe in religions (all them) idea of a god, all the silly rules that seem to go with it just seem ridiculous to me, that a being with such power would be that pernickety and ridiculous to care whether you fancy men or fancy women or whatever or whether you eat pork or only fish on Fridays etc etc
That's really interesting about the brain.I didn't know that.

Perhaps our brains may grow larger again the more we try work this stuff out?

And yeah i would say all these rules are man made.

[Zizu]

Interesting

https://x.com/darrengrimes_/status/1772314279577886723?s=20


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[user104658]

Wow blast from the past :D

[arista]

Interesting

https://x.com/darrengrimes_/status/1772314279577886723?s=20





Yes that's wrong