What's Joe's problem with Raph?

[Santa's NaughtiNess]

I just don't get it! He has been nothing but nice to him, Ms yet this tool is always hostile to him. I didn't notice until last night show. I think he was trying to anger Raph, so I'm glad he didn't take the bait.

[iRyan]

He's a bitter self-hating closet case, it's quite sad. The way he reacted to jokingly being accused of wearing makeup was very telling.

[Cherry Christmas]

I think Joe likes to be top dog, he has gone in to be the father figure, Raph and Arthur didnt let themselves be influenced by him, he probably hates that Raph didn't join in the Arthur bashing, as he probably knows now that Arthur has left that it went to far and it mightn't look good from a public PoV. Also I think he likes to be complimented and adored and maybe some of the HMs are not bothering to feed his ego

[Jamesy]

It seems to be because he doesn't argue (note: "not mucking in"). I've met people like Joe and they just 'dont get' people who are more reserved and like to talk meaningfully rather than shout or have very short/dumb conversations, or 'banter' if you like. Joe mentioning Raph's intelligence confirms this.

They are very different people and given Raph is in the minority in the house he's a very easy target to pick.

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[Gusto Brunt]

I don't know. But Raph doesn't seem to like him either.

[Amy Jade]

It's pretty obvious he's threatened by Raph's extensive knowledge of Big Brother and could be partly down to Raph's VT saying he doesn't care about anyone and he will manipulate anyone he can to win - Tom will have told Joe about it.

I don't see the issue really, if somebody said the things Raph did going in I think anyone would be justified in being wary :shrug:

[Locke.]

He's jealous that Raph is the alpha male in the house

[bots]

I just don't get it! He has been nothing but nice to him, Ms yet this tool is always hostile to him. I didn't notice until last night show. I think he was trying to anger Raph, so I'm glad he didn't take the bait.

First impressions count and he hasn't liked him since day one. People don't have to like each other. The fact they are in a game competing against each other focusses it even more. If I was Raph, I wouldn't care less if I was liked by Joe or not

[Slevin]

they obviously both have issues with each other. not just Joe having issues with him. so neither should have been that bothered by using their choice of punishments on each other.
It's pretty obvious he's threatened by Raph's extensive knowledge of Big Brother and could be partly down to Raph's VT saying he doesn't care about anyone and he will manipulate anyone he can to win - Tom will have told Joe about it.

I don't see the issue really, if somebody said the things Raph did going in I think anyone would be justified in being wary :shrug:
i agree & Joe is not the only that has been wary of him cause of that. if Joe didnt have the killer nomination or no killer at all & Raph was open to be nominated by the house the regular way he would have probably been one of the ones facing eviction.

[Epic.]

It's because of Tom planting the evil seeds about Raph to Joe about him being a gameplayer and Joe being wary as a result

[Santa's NaughtiNess]

It's because of Tom planting the evil seeds about Raph to Joe about him being a gameplayer and Joe being wary as a result

I notices twat Joe was trying to me him lose his temper. Glad he kept his cool.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Because he's intelligent? Stupid people are so much more interesting

[Santa's NaughtiNess]

Because he's intelligent? Stupid people are so much more interesting

Nominating someone for being smart has to be the most ridiculous reason I've ever heard :joker:

[Christmas Dynasnow]

Joe has all sorts of issues and i think he just wants to hate on someone to make himself feel better

[ChristmasNeeve]

Joe has all sorts of issues and i think he just wants to hate on someone to make himself feel better
Seems that way, he seems kind of an angry fella

[snail69]

It's pretty obvious he's threatened by Raph's extensive knowledge of Big Brother and could be partly down to Raph's VT saying he doesn't care about anyone and he will manipulate anyone he can to win - Tom will have told Joe about it.

I don't see the issue really, if somebody said the things Raph did going in I think anyone would be justified in being wary :shrug:
This.

I don't think Joe has a problem with Raph particularly. He just feels threatened by him because you know it's a game afterall people!

[Novo]

Guessing Raph and Arthur spoke more and hung out more then what we seen in the past highlight shows since Raph was called to the diary room to calm him and was the one told to pack his suitcase also backed up by the fact Arthur wants him to win, just think Joe was out for them both since day 1 and their friendship probably pissed him off even more

[Santa's NaughtiNess]

I'm going off that smug popular crew fast. Joe is the worse of the lot, he's so patronising and too eager to please that group.

[Gusto Brunt]

Intelligent and very very boring.

[Santa's NaughtiNess]

Intelligent and very very boring.

He has done more that some of the others. The sisters and Charlotte for example do nothing.

[RhysJones]

He's jealous that Raph is the alpha male in the house

Is this a joke, Raph is not the alpha male. You have to be trusted and liked to be the alpha male, Lotan is.

[RhysJones]

Maybe he just doesn't like him and doesn't trust him, not everyone in there has to like Raph. Not everyone in there likes each other. Is this so hard to get over or something

[snail69]

Is this a joke, Raph is not the alpha male. You have to be trusted and liked to be the alpha male, Lotan is.
It had to be a joke. Thats why I chose to ignore it!! I'd say is Lotan too.

[Santa's NaughtiNess]

Maybe he just doesn't like him and doesn't trust him, not everyone in there has to like Raph. Not everyone in there likes each other. Is this so hard to get over or something

He said he was a nice guy, until Tom told him about him his VT.

[Amy Jade]

He said he was a nice guy, until Tom told him about him his VT.

So then it's sort of Raph's fault is it not? for the god awful VT?

[Tinsel Toes]

Joe sees Raph as a threat and he can't be manipulated so Joe wants him gone ! Sorry Joe he's going nowhere :dance:

[Santa's NaughtiNess]

So then it's sort of Raph's fault is it not? for the god awful VT?

Everyone lies on their VT to get it. :laugh:

[joeysteele]

I think Joe likes to be top dog, he has gone in to be the father figure, Raph and Arthur didnt let themselves be influenced by him, he probably hates that Raph didn't join in the Arthur bashing, as he probably knows now that Arthur has left that it went to far and it mightn't look good from a public PoV. Also I think he likes to be complimented and adored and maybe some of the HMs are not bothering to feed his ego


Just about sums him up really well.

He really gets on my nerves,I find him really dull.

[Amy Jade]

Everyone lies on their VT to get it. :laugh:

That's not really the point though is it?

You're asking why Joe could possibly dislike Raph, him being wary after Tom explained his VT is a plausable reason - Raph literally said he was going to manipulate everyone and play a game nobody forced him to speak those words as a super fan he knows that.

[Santa's NaughtiNess]

That's not really the point though is it?

You're asking why Joe could possibly dislike Raph, him being wary after Tom explained his VT is a plausable reason - Raph literally said he was going to manipulate everyone and play a game nobody forced him to speak those words as a super fan he knows that.

But Raph as done nothing to Joe. So maybe it's just a clash of personalities.

[Locke.]

Is this a joke, Raph is not the alpha male. You have to be trusted and liked to be the alpha male, Lotan is.

You must be mad if you think Raph isn't the alpha male

[DouglasS]

That's not really the point though is it?

You're asking why Joe could possibly dislike Raph, him being wary after Tom explained his VT is a plausable reason - Raph literally said he was going to manipulate everyone and play a game nobody forced him to speak those words as a super fan he knows that.

I think after 7 days to still be using somebodies VT [Who you haven't even seen, just from word of mouth] as a reason is not really plausabile, and is infact very weak.

[ChristmasNeeve]

I think after 7 days to still be using somebodies VT [Who you haven't even seen, just from word of mouth] as a reason is not really plausabile, and is infact very weak.
Indeed

[Tinsel Toes]

I think after 7 days to still be using somebodies VT [Who you haven't even seen, just from word of mouth] as a reason is not really plausabile, and is infact very weak.

We saw their VT's when they entered - did we not ?

[Mullens123]

He's a bitter self-hating closet case, it's quite sad. The way he reacted to jokingly being accused of wearing makeup was very telling.

This tbh

[Rustic bauble]

Joe is wary of intelligent people. He feels intimidated by Raph because he is intellectually challenging.

[MrWong]

I think Joe wanted to be the wise old sage of the house and if it wasn't for Raph and Charlotte he probably would be because the rest of the housemates are dumb AF.

[Amy Jade]

But Raph as done nothing to Joe. So maybe it's just a clash of personalities.

He doesn't have to do anything. If you hear somebody was bragging about manipulating others it's pretty normal to be wary of them.

I'd be wary of Raph tbh

[Ashsleigh]

Stupid people are so much more interesting

Now that I must agree with. :joker:

[storybrooke]

He knows Raph won't create a scene about being nominated unlike some of the other housemates who would have gone mental - basically he made the easiest nomination that would create the least backlash in the house

[Santa's NaughtiNess]

He knows Raph won't create a scene about being nominated unlike some of the other housemates who would have gone mental - basically he made the easiest nomination that would create the least backlash in the house

Nominating someone for being intelligent is such a cop out :bored:

[Santa's NaughtiNess]

He knows Raph won't create a scene about being nominated unlike some of the other housemates who would have gone mental - basically he made the easiest nomination that would create the least backlash in the house

If they have face to face nominations I can see everyone choosing Raph as the easy way out.

[storybrooke]

If they have face to face nominations I can see everyone choosing Raph as the easy way out.

Yeah I can too but I don't think he will be easily evicted

[Santa's NaughtiNess]

Yeah I can too but I don't think he will be easily evicted

I hope he ignores them and stays himself. He says his opinion when it's relevant and doesn't need to be a loudmouth to be popular.

[Fetch The Bolt Cutters]

i don't like joe at all but i think he dislikes raph because of the gameplayer comment he made

i don't think there's anything else to it :shrug:

[RhysJones]

He said he was a nice guy, until Tom told him about him his VT.

That was the first night, of course everyone is gonna seem nice unless they do something major

[sungrass]

I just don't get it! He has been nothing but nice to him, Ms yet this tool is always hostile to him. I didn't notice until last night show. I think he was trying to anger Raph, so I'm glad he didn't take the bait.

* Joe is much older than everyone else and he see's himself as the alpha Male (second most powerful position in the house - the Queen is the most powerful like chess)

* Raph is much more intelligent than everyone else in the house - this naturally means that in the laws of nature - should there be a head to head against Joe - like the old Lion being attacked by the younger Lion - Raph would win and take Joes position as the Alpha Male

Basically they are the two most powerful males in the house and they are fighting for dominance - although - I dont think Raph wants to Dominate - YET but he will eventually.

They are very similar - both of them want to be the boss - Raph more subtle and Joe more obvious - Joe feels his lack of education is a weakness to Raphs intelligence - however Joe has experience and confidence which Raph doesn't.

I hope that makes sense.

[Tom4784]

He's a simpleton that doesn't like intelligence, he's been easily led by Tom's comments and he feels the need to impose this 'ard image he has of himself onto others and Raph isn't likely to challenge that like other people would.

Vile man.

[snail69]

* Joe is much older than everyone else and he see's himself as the alpha Male (second most powerful position in the house - the Queen is the most powerful like chess)

* Raph is much more intelligent than everyone else in the house - this naturally means that in the laws of nature - should there be a head to head against Joe - like the old Lion being attacked by the younger Lion - Raph would win and take Joes position as the Alpha Male

Basically they are the two most powerful males in the house and they are fighting for dominance - although - I dont think Raph wants to Dominate - YET but he will eventually.

They are very similar - both of them want to be the boss - Raph more subtle and Joe more obvious - Joe feels his lack of education is a weakness to Raphs intelligence - however Joe has experience and confidence which Raph doesn't.

I hope that makes sense.

Makes no sense. They are not similar at all in my opinion.

Raph is not and will probably never be the alpha male inside or even outside of the house in any situation. It just doesn't seem to be in his character at all. Neither are the alpha in the house in my opinion. Joe would like to be but he's not and Raph doesn't care.

Also saying that Raph is much more intelligent is maybe not true either. Yes there is some airheads in there but I think Charlotte, Rebecca and Lotan are all very intelligent people as well.

Maybe Raph is as you say more intelligent, I don't know but he is definitely not "much more intelligent" in my opinion. Even if he is, it's hard to come to that conclusion after 1 week. Especially when we haven't really seen that much of him.

[Santa's NaughtiNess]

I don't think Raph wants to dominate like Joe does. He just wants to enjoy the experience. He doesn't like the way Joe treated Arthur, who was his friend. Joe is threatened by him, sees his as competition.

[sungrass]

You must be mad if you think Raph isn't the alpha male

Hey I just read this

Yes its like Raph is the Alpha Male that is hidden in plain sight - its obvious to people who know - but stupid people cant see it - they just sense it and it makes them uneasy.

[snail69]

Hey I just read this

Yes its like Raph is the Alpha Male that is hidden in plain sight - its obvious to people who know - but stupid people cant see it - they just sense it and it makes them uneasy.
Sorry but Alpha males do not hide in the background and watch others. I think you need to look up a definition of what an alpha male is to be honest.

[sungrass]

Sorry but Alpha males do not hide in the background and watch others. I think you need to look up a definition of what an alpha male is to be honest.

Thats exactly what an Alpha male with a plan would want you to think hon.

[snail69]

Thats exactly what an Alpha male with a plan would want you to think hon.
I have no words!

Edit: Actually I just rembered that Raph himself confirmed he is not and has no interest in being the Alpha male.

He called his group a democracy with no leader. His own words.

[sungrass]

I have no words!

Edit: Actually I just rembered that Raph himself confirmed he is not and has no interest in being the Alpha male.

He called his group a democracy with no leader. His own words.

Well a democracy does have a leader - Ancient Greece created the notion of democracy and there is always a leader as its based upon 49%/51% leadership which is also its weakness.

He would have been wiser to say republic? But he knows that.

Ok I admit - I didnt sleep well last night - back ache - and I probably have to get a new mattress how am I gonna afford this? So Im not typing something I consider to need to be A grade quality ok

When a young Lion stalks an older Alpha Male - he hides and watches for a moment of weakness - he doesn't let the Current aging Alpha know what he's got until the moment of attack.

Thats also sort of art of war!

Anyway! Ignore me its not a problem.

[Peppermint]

He knows that Raph is the biggest threat to him winning (not that Joe stands a chance of that anyway :fan:).

[Santa's NaughtiNess]

He knows that Raph is the biggest threat to him winning (not that Joe stands a chance of that anyway :fan:).

He's threatened by his intelligence.

[snail69]

Well a democracy does have a leader - Ancient Greece created the notion of democracy and there is always a leader as its based upon 49%/51% leadership which is also its weakness.

He would have been wiser to say republic? But he knows that.

Ok I admit - I didnt sleep well last night - back ache - and I probably have to get a new mattress how am I gonna afford this? So Im not typing something I consider to need to be A grade quality ok

When a young Lion stalks an older Alpha Male - he hides and watches for a moment of weakness - he doesn't let the Current aging Alpha know what he's got until the moment of attack.

Thats also sort of art of war!

Anyway! Ignore me its not a problem.
Yeah I think Republic would maybe have been more fitting here.

And yes you're right the young lion will stalk the current alpha and wait for the right time but I just don't see this with Raph.

I just think he's an intelligent, likeable guy who to a great degree doesn't care much about his position in the house. I certainly can't see him going at Lotan, who I believe is the actual alpha. In fact as time goes on I expect these two to actually become good friends. Maybe not best friends but friends enough to almost be allies.

[sungrass]

Yeah I think Republic would maybe have been more fitting here.

And yes you're right the young lion will stalk the current alpha and wait for the right time but I just don't see this with Raph.

I just think he's an intelligent, likeable guy who to a great degree doesn't care much about his position in the house. I certainly can't see him going at Lotan, who I believe is the actual alpha. In fact as time goes on I expect these two to actually become good friends. Maybe not best friends but friends enough to almost be allies.

Yes keep your friends close and enemies closer - I see Raph as the ultimate game player - I could be wrong - lets wait and see.

Raph mentioned that he didn't believe in love- and he also studies psychology - he is also a BB fan I think he knows that these people wont be his life long friends when the show is over.

Saying this I like the guy. I would rather spend time talking to him than any of the others in the house and thats the way I look at it.

[Santa's NaughtiNess]

Yes keep your friends close and enemies closer - I see Raph as the ultimate game player - I could be wrong - lets wait and see.

Raph mentioned that he didn't believe in love- and he also studies psychology - he is also a BB fan I think he knows that these people wont be his life long friends when the show is over.

Saying this I like the guy. I would rather spend time talking to him than any of the others in the house and thats the way I look at it.
I hope he keeps in touch with Arthur. They seemed to be getting on great before he left.

[sungrass]

I hope he keeps in touch with Arthur. They seemed to be getting on great before he left.

Me too. I think there was a genuine mutual respect there for each other.

[Santa's NaughtiNess]

Me too. I think there was a genuine mutual respect there for each other.

I wanted to see their friendship develop. We have been robbed :(

[sungrass]

I wanted to see their friendship develop. We have been robbed :(

Yes I was really gutted when Arthur left - I loved his turn of phrase - they just so rarely get people like that in there - and Im gutted that he - I wont say bullied - but Im gutted that people couldnt have appreciated his uniqueness (?) - That so called female beginning with K - its gutter mouth - spewing at you and swearing at you ranting and so thick as well - it must have too disheartening.

Im hoping they get some humour in there. Someone with the real cajones to stand up to the idiots and put them in their place.

[mr rochester]

Joe is clearly uneducated. Raph is not only educated, he has a quiet presence and doesn't have any wish to threaten or intimidate anyone. Joe is harsh, fidgetty, defensive and I think he lies about his age. Raph has no need to. Raph knows about the power of the quiet warrior. Joe knows about scrawny, lizardlike behaviour. I would not want Joe to like me if I were in there so I imagine Raph will be marginally relieved Joe has nominated him. On Friday I hope Raph gives Joe one of his knowing smiles after he survives.

[Santa's NaughtiNess]

Joe is clearly uneducated. Raph is not only educated, he has a quiet presence and doesn't have any wish to threaten or intimidate anyone. Joe is harsh, fidgetty, defensive and I think he lies about his age. Raph has no need to. Raph knows about the power of the quiet warrior. Joe knows about scrawny, lizardlike behaviour. I would not want Joe to like me if I were in there so I imagine Raph will be marginally relieved Joe has nominated him. On Friday I hope Raph gives Joe one of his knowing smiles after he survives.

:joker::thumbs:

[Christmas Dynasnow]

Brilliant moment last night when Joe was vindicated

It must have felt so good and glad that the ladz all took note

[sampvt]

Joe is an arsehole but even arseholes can see through anyone as vague as Raph. Slaying him wasnt that hard.

[Santa's NaughtiNess]

Uncle Fester will hopefully be gone tonight. :xyxwave:

[vesavius]

I just don't get it! He has been nothing but nice to him, Ms yet this tool is always hostile to him. I didn't notice until last night show. I think he was trying to anger Raph, so I'm glad he didn't take the bait.

Joe might be an asshole, I don't like him, but he just clearly read Raph correctly from the get go.

Joe went in with the understanding that this is a game, and he knows that Raph is a super fan and pegged him right from the start as a game player.

It all went down hill from there.

Sometimes age brings wisdom and insight.

[Lostie!]

Raph's a sneaky slimy snake and Big Joe had him sussed since day fackin 1. What a guy :clap1:

[Captain.Remy]

Closet case alert, that's what I think.

To be fair, I don't think Ralph is even the problem, I think Joe is just a people hater.
So he picks on what he thinks is the weakest, and keeps digging his own grave.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Closet case alert, that's what I think.

To be fair, I don't think Ralph is even the problem, I think Joe is just a people hater.
So he picks on what he thinks is the weakest, and keeps digging his own grave.

Yep spot on

[Christmas Dynasnow]

Joe might be an asshole, I don't like him, but he just clearly read Raph correctly from the get go.

Joe went in with the understanding that this is a game, and he knows that Raph is a super fan and pegged him right from the start as a game player.

It all went down hill from there.

Sometimes age brings wisdom and insight.

yes, Joe called him day one and its looking more and more like he called it right

[pontyboi]

Joe is very defensive and self conscious and I do feel he's threatened by Raphs intellect..

Joe demonstrated his insecurities last night when constantly saying about the newbies "you know they've seen everything we've said and done"....no one else seems worried so what's joe hiding?

[Christmas Dynasnow]

Joe is very defensive and self conscious and I do feel he's threatened by Raphs intellect..

Joe demonstrated his insecurities last night when constantly saying about the newbies "you know they've seen everything we've said and done"....no one else seems worried so what's joe hiding?

I thought the housemates all thought "yep Joe called it"?

[bots]

lets be fair, the only reason Joe called him a game player on day 1 is because Tom had just seen Raph's vt and told Joe. No great insights from Joe were necessary :laugh: