Secret antissemtic

[Livia]

No its not. There are black Jews, Caucasian Jews, Arabic Jews. Judaism has no specific characteristics.

Something else you have a specialist knowledge of then? MOSTLY people can tell a Jewish person. I AM a Jewish person! I can tell other Jews at a glance. You're just muddying the waters with this nonsense. Either this, or Israel... when the problem is that the Labour party is clearly suffering from a crisis over anti-Semitism and ordinary, moderate, British Jews are not willing to put up with it.

[Kizzy]

Something else you have a specialist knowledge of then? MOSTLY people can tell a Jewish person. I AM a Jewish person! I can tell other Jews at a glance. You're just muddying the waters with this nonsense. Either this, or Israel... when the problem is that the Labour party is clearly suffering from a crisis over anti-Semitism and ordinary, moderate, British Jews are not willing to put up with it.

How.. how do you identify yourself and others as Jewish?

[Livia]

How.. how do you identify yourself and others as Jewish?

Stick to the topic please, Kizzy.

[Crimson Dynamo]

And here are people complaining about that graffiti mural.
Posting such a picture says it all and I'm amazed its still sitting here.

And yet you are happy to see Kizzy and her avatars?

what hypocrisy :joker:

[Livia]

This is true, though....


https://pics.onsizzle.com/Instagram-Part-3-jewishpeople-396c2d.png

[Kazanne]

:fist::fist:
Please don’t refer to Marsh as a tit.





:joker:

:joker::joker:I laugh everytime I see it ,I would have laughed had it been anyone

[Kazanne]

This is true, though....


https://pics.onsizzle.com/Instagram-Part-3-jewishpeople-396c2d.png

I have an aunt that looks like that Livia :laugh::laugh: and she is very STERN (see what I did there)lol

[DemolitionRed]

That are Caucasian, arabic, and black people who follow the Jewish faith, and then there are ethnic Jews.

What do you mean, 'then there are ethnic Jews?

[Kizzy]

Stick to the topic please, Kizzy.

You contributed to the discussion, I'm asking for clarification on your comment.

[Kizzy]

And yet you are happy to see Kizzy and her avatars?

what hypocrisy :joker:

Is may in her shades offensive to you?

[Livia]

You contributed to the discussion, I'm asking for clarification on your comment.

And I'm telling you no.

[Kizzy]

I have an aunt that looks like that Livia :laugh::laugh: and she is very STERN (see what I did there)lol

I didn't know you were Jewish Kaz.

[chuff me dizzy]

A Momentum officer has resigned in protest at Labour’s anti-semitism scandal saying he felt “sometimes unsafe and most certainly untrusted” as a Jewish member of one of its London Steering Groups. Joshua Garfield posted about his resignation from Newham Momentum’s governing body on social media, writing:

“This past week, the Labour Party has been mired in a series of accusations of antisemitism, both individual and institutionalised; I can say from first hand experience that these accusations are not without foundation. As a Jewish member, I have witnessed more antisemitism in the past week than I ever have in my 8 years of Labour Party membership.

“I have seen discussions on social media, both publicly and privately, between members of Newham Momentum and elected representatives of its Steering Group, which leave me unable to serve on that body in good conscience. In the past week, I have felt sometimes unsafe, and most certainly untrusted as a Jewish member of the Steering Group, hence I’ve decided to step down. While I believe political education and antisemitism training may help members of the group, in all honesty I don’t believe it would be sufficient to combat some of the deep-seated prejudices I saw being aired confidently, and which went unchallenged. I cannot work alongside individuals who seek to silence the legitimate concerns of Jewish Labour members, or who remain silent in the face of blatant racism.”
A Momentum Spokesperson said:

“As made clear in our recent statement, Momentum is committed to stamping out antisemitism across the Labour movement. Any complaints we receive will be investigated fully in line with our code of ethics, and appropriate disciplinary action will be taken.”

[Livia]

A Momentum officer has resigned in protest at Labour’s anti-semitism scandal saying he felt “sometimes unsafe and most certainly untrusted” as a Jewish member of one of its London Steering Groups......... etc. etc. etc.

That's interesting Chuff, I come from Newham. Surprised I don't know him!

[chuff me dizzy]

That's interesting Chuff, I come from Newham. Surprised I don't know him!

Yes its enlightening isn't ?

[Livia]

Yes its enlightening isn't ?

It's never going to be addressed while people don't believe it's going on and actually denying it in the face of people's experiences.

[bots]

A Momentum officer has resigned in protest at Labour’s anti-semitism scandal saying he felt “sometimes unsafe and most certainly untrusted” as a Jewish member of one of its London Steering Groups. Joshua Garfield posted about his resignation from Newham Momentum’s governing body on social media, writing:

“This past week, the Labour Party has been mired in a series of accusations of antisemitism, both individual and institutionalised; I can say from first hand experience that these accusations are not without foundation. As a Jewish member, I have witnessed more antisemitism in the past week than I ever have in my 8 years of Labour Party membership.

“I have seen discussions on social media, both publicly and privately, between members of Newham Momentum and elected representatives of its Steering Group, which leave me unable to serve on that body in good conscience. In the past week, I have felt sometimes unsafe, and most certainly untrusted as a Jewish member of the Steering Group, hence I’ve decided to step down. While I believe political education and antisemitism training may help members of the group, in all honesty I don’t believe it would be sufficient to combat some of the deep-seated prejudices I saw being aired confidently, and which went unchallenged. I cannot work alongside individuals who seek to silence the legitimate concerns of Jewish Labour members, or who remain silent in the face of blatant racism.”
A Momentum Spokesperson said:

“As made clear in our recent statement, Momentum is committed to stamping out antisemitism across the Labour movement. Any complaints we receive will be investigated fully in line with our code of ethics, and appropriate disciplinary action will be taken.”

That's enlightening, and says much about the effectiveness of Corbyn's supposed crack down on antisemitism

[kirklancaster]

This is true, though....


https://pics.onsizzle.com/Instagram-Part-3-jewishpeople-396c2d.png

:joker::joker::joker:

[kirklancaster]

A Momentum officer has resigned in protest at Labour’s anti-semitism scandal saying he felt “sometimes unsafe and most certainly untrusted” as a Jewish member of one of its London Steering Groups. Joshua Garfield posted about his resignation from Newham Momentum’s governing body on social media, writing:

“This past week, the Labour Party has been mired in a series of accusations of antisemitism, both individual and institutionalised; I can say from first hand experience that these accusations are not without foundation. As a Jewish member, I have witnessed more antisemitism in the past week than I ever have in my 8 years of Labour Party membership.

“I have seen discussions on social media, both publicly and privately, between members of Newham Momentum and elected representatives of its Steering Group, which leave me unable to serve on that body in good conscience. In the past week, I have felt sometimes unsafe, and most certainly untrusted as a Jewish member of the Steering Group, hence I’ve decided to step down. While I believe political education and antisemitism training may help members of the group, in all honesty I don’t believe it would be sufficient to combat some of the deep-seated prejudices I saw being aired confidently, and which went unchallenged. I cannot work alongside individuals who seek to silence the legitimate concerns of Jewish Labour members, or who remain silent in the face of blatant racism.”
A Momentum Spokesperson said:

“As made clear in our recent statement, Momentum is committed to stamping out antisemitism across the Labour movement. Any complaints we receive will be investigated fully in line with our code of ethics, and appropriate disciplinary action will be taken.”

Brilliant post, Chuff and one which as far as I am concerned is GAME, SET and MATCH where the case for extreme anti-Semitism in Corbyn's 'Labour' Party.

[chuff me dizzy]

Brilliant post, Chuff and one which as far as I am concerned is GAME, SET and MATCH where the case for extreme anti-Semitism in Corbyn's 'Labour' Party.

Strange it should pop up on my Facebook today ,I think it leaves little left to be send my lovely Kirk :wink:

[GiRTh]

It's never going to be addressed while people don't believe it's going on and actually denying it in the face of people's experiences.Agree with this.

I'm sure I've stated on the forum that as a life long labour supporter I don't think I can vote for Jeremy Corbyn. Its not a case of his polices but more his leadership. I'm not really bothered if the accusations are true or not but I do feel that in the face of such public opinion Corbyns response has been lukewarm at best. Accusations of such an element within the labour party should have demanded a much more emphatic response.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Agree with this.

I'm sure I've stated on the forum that as a life long labour supporter I don't think I can vote for Jeremy Corbyn. Its not a case of his polices but more his leadership. I'm not really bothered if the accusations are true or not but I do feel that in the face of such public opinion Corbyns response has been lukewarm at best. Accusations of such an element within the labour party should have demanded a much more emphatic response.

Indeed and a meeting with a anarchist fringe group was a total piss-take when feelings were running so high

[kirklancaster]

Agree with this.

I'm sure I've stated on the forum that as a life long labour supporter I don't think I can vote for Jeremy Corbyn. Its not a case of his polices but more his leadership. I'm not really bothered if the accusations are true or not but I do feel that in the face of such public opinion Corbyns response has been lukewarm at best. Accusations of such an element within the labour party should have demanded a much more emphatic response.

Great post Girth. The FRUSTRATING irony for me is that I am not tied to ANY one Political Party but even though I am becoming more and more disenchanted with the Government, I could NEVER vote Labour again whilst Corbyn AND his like-minded cronies are running it.

[GiRTh]

Indeed and a meeting with a anarchist fringe group was a total piss-take when feelings were running so highExactly. Its almost like its about what he thinks is important, and not what the public thinks is important and thats the wrong way round IMO

[chuff me dizzy]

Agree with this.

I'm sure I've stated on the forum that as a life long labour supporter I don't think I can vote for Jeremy Corbyn. Its not a case of his polices but more his leadership. I'm not really bothered if the accusations are true or not but I do feel that in the face of such public opinion Corbyns response has been lukewarm at best. Accusations of such an element within the labour party should have demanded a much more emphatic response.

I too am a life long Labour voter,but they could put lighted matches down my nails and I still would never vote for this sneaky idiot

[GiRTh]

Great post Girth. The FRUSTRATING irony for me is that I am not tied to ANY one Political Party but even though I am becoming more and more disenchanted with the Government, I could NEVER vote Labour again whilst Corbyn AND his like-minded cronies are running it.Agree. Labours leadership has been an issue for quite a while for me. I had fewer issues with the Millibands than I currently have with Corbyn as a leader.

[GiRTh]

I too am a life long Labour voter,but they could put lighted matches down my nails and I still would never vote for this sneaky idiotI wouldn't go as far as that but I get what you mean :laugh:

[user104658]

And I'm telling you no.It definitely has NOTHING to do with noses or hair.

[Brillopad]

It's never going to be addressed while people don't believe it's going on and actually denying it in the face of people's experiences.

The kind of idealism that leaves you deaf, dumb and blind is far from being progressive and simply becomes a handicap. The party as a whole should be more important than any single member - even the leader - and any true Labour supporter should recognise that. The damage being done to the party will likely last for years.

[Kizzy]

And I'm telling you no.

So from what I gather there is a Jewish 'look' but you're not willing to share what that is?

[kirklancaster]

I did not realise that my mate had photographed him!!!!!!

https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.rQkrlKbx3USwGwgDzxv4VQHaC2&pid=15.1&P=0&w=393&h=152

NOW WE CAN ALL GO BACK TO DISCUSSING SLIMEBALL CORBYN AND ANTISEMITISM IN HIS LABOUR PARTY



:dance::dance::cheer2::cheer2::cheer2:

[DemolitionRed]

The funny thing is, this thread is about showing empathy and respect to other faiths; something you think Corbyn isn't doing. Yet the lack of empathy and respect for Muslims on here is an entirely different kettle of fish. That religion has been demonized on here again and again (add tedium) and I'm not just talking about the hijab or males repressing females or terrorism I'm talking about the persecution of the religion itself.

Its interesting what you find when you look back though old threads. The same people today are saying the opposite about freedom of speech re- religion.

Seventy-eight percent support punishment for the people who earlier this year published cartoons featuring the Prophet Mohammed. Sixty-eight percent support the arrest and prosecution of those British people who "insult Islam." When asked if free speech should be protected, even if it offends religious groups, 62 percent of British Muslims say No, it should not.

Talk about closing mosques got this reply
Turn them into fecking Bingo halls and save a few Christian places of worship from that fate.

and this
Our press freedoms and freedom of speech are part of our democracy and as such we have the right to poke fun or satirise ALL religious icons including Mohammed.

Kick them all out.
Seriously, kick them all out.

Islam is simply one religion among many and has no right to special consideration. All religions are open to ridicule - no exceptions for Islam.

You can't have one rule for one religion and a different for another. You can't say its okay to make jest or speak badly of one faith whilst defending another faith. But on here you clearly can and for that reason I can only conclude that this has much more to do with getting rid of Corbyn and using trumped up ridiculus accusations to do it, it is a Poundland Dodgy Dossier and those willing to bring anti-Semitism in to do this are doing so dishonestly.

Bearing false witness is the 9th Commandment and it is punishable by death in the Mosaic Law.

[DemolitionRed]

These postmodernists campaigning against anti-Semitism are full of so much ****, they aim to neuter religions as they believe they are a patriarchal structure that is holding back the development of their society. Lets look at what Corbyn has said about the Jewish faith (I'll bet you, you don't find a single thing). Lets move onto economics where we can find loads of stuff. That is what leads to the suspicion that there is a (not so) hidden agenda.

[Brillopad]

The funny thing is, this thread is about showing empathy and respect to other faiths; something you think Corbyn isn't doing. Yet the lack of empathy and respect for Muslims on here is an entirely different kettle of fish. That religion has been demonized on here again and again (add tedium) and I'm not just talking about the hijab or males repressing females or terrorism I'm talking about the persecution of the religion itself.

Its interesting what you find when you look back though old threads. The same people today are saying the opposite about freedom of speech re- religion.



Talk about closing mosques got this reply


and this






You can't have one rule for one religion and a different for another. You can't say its okay to make jest or speak badly of one faith whilst defending another faith. But on here you clearly can and for that reason I can only conclude that this has much more to do with getting rid of Corbyn and using trumped up ridiculus accusations to do it, it is a Poundland Dodgy Dossier and those willing to bring anti-Semitism in to do this are doing so dishonestly.

Bearing false witness is the 9th Commandment and it is punishable by death in the Mosaic Law.

After your sarcastic comments on the apparent rantings of others earlier you produce this hypocritical diatribe. Everyone is entitled to their opinions on certain religions whether you like them or not - it is not your call to censor the opinions of others however hard you try.

It seems to me that you have one rule for one religion and a different for another with your total disapproval of any criticism of Islam whilst defending the leader of the political party you support despite documented evidence of his antisemetic opinions on many occasions. One rule for you and another for the rest of us.

Out of interest what relevance do you think that last paragraph has to those that are not Jewish? You really need to take a chill pill? Pure hysterics!

[Kizzy]

The funny thing is, this thread is about showing empathy and respect to other faiths; something you think Corbyn isn't doing. Yet the lack of empathy and respect for Muslims on here is an entirely different kettle of fish. That religion has been demonized on here again and again (add tedium) and I'm not just talking about the hijab or males repressing females or terrorism I'm talking about the persecution of the religion itself.

Its interesting what you find when you look back though old threads. The same people today are saying the opposite about freedom of speech re- religion.



Talk about closing mosques got this reply


and this






You can't have one rule for one religion and a different for another. You can't say its okay to make jest or speak badly of one faith whilst defending another faith. But on here you clearly can and for that reason I can only conclude that this has much more to do with getting rid of Corbyn and using trumped up ridiculus accusations to do it, it is a Poundland Dodgy Dossier and those willing to bring anti-Semitism in to do this are doing so dishonestly.

Bearing false witness is the 9th Commandment and it is punishable by death in the Mosaic Law.

Just how long have you been here?... :laugh:

Great post btw.

[DemolitionRed]

Just how long have you been here?... :laugh:

Great post btw.

Too long!

[DemolitionRed]

.......

[DemolitionRed]

After your sarcastic comments on the apparent rantings of others earlier you produce this hypocritical diatribe. Everyone is entitled to their opinions on certain religions whether you like them or not - it is not your call to censor the opinions of others however hard you try.


Does that include Corbyn?

It seems to me that you have one rule for one religion and a different for another with your total disapproval of any criticism of Islam whilst defending the leader of the political party you support despite documented evidence of his antisemetic opinions on many occasions. One rule for you and another for the rest of us.

Your seeming is wrong. I have defended the Muslim faith and will continue to defend it because 99% of Muslims are peaceful, respectable people. Your outward viciousness towards the Muslim faith has been embarrassing and makes me ashamed to be British.

As for Judaism, I've already stated its a beautiful religion on so many levels. If I was to choose any religion it would be Judaism. But I stand with Corbyn on condemning those who (with a fairly new idea) support an apartheid in Israel and make a mockery of those who remain with their old faith and oppose the land sweeps and apartheid in Israel. That doesn't make me anti-Semitic, it just means I oppose a political idea... same for Corbyn.
I also oppose radical Islam but does that make me Islamophobic?

[Brillopad]

Does that include Corbyn?


Your seeming is wrong. I have defended the Muslim faith and will continue to defend it because 99% of Muslims are peaceful, respectable people. Your outward viciousness towards the Muslim faith has been embarrassing and makes me ashamed to be British.

As for Judaism, I've already stated its a beautiful religion on so many levels. If I was to choose any religion it would be Judaism. But I stand with Corbyn on condemning those who (with a fairly new idea) support an apartheid in Israel and make a mockery of those who remain with their old faith and oppose the land sweeps and apartheid in Israel. That doesn't make me anti-Semitic, it just means I oppose a political idea... same for Corbyn.
I also oppose radical Islam but does that make me Islamophobic?

Explain your definition of ‘viciousness’ as I don’t believe I have said anything ‘vicious’. I have criticised mass immigration and the wearing of Burkhas in the West. Burkhas represent female oppression and have no place in the West where women are equal. It is insulting in the opinion of many Western women. I along with other Western women have every right to express such concerns.

How is that vicious? Should such opinions be shut down for fear of offending Muslims - why are their feelings more relevant/important than those of Western women in your book? I find your clear priority for the feelings of Muslim men and women over those of Western women in the West equally as ‘vicious’ if that is the case.

Come on how exactly have my comments been ‘vicious’ - you are just attempting to shut down Western women in their own countries - how dare they object! Not only is that controlling and dictorial it is pretty vicious in my opinion.

As for Corbyn - he wants to hold the most important job in the country - he therefore has responsibilities that you and I do not have and is much more accountable for his actions. If you can’t see that it is a waste of time having any kind of discussion with you on the subject.

[Twosugars]

So from what I gather there is a Jewish 'look' but you're not willing to share what that is?
As someone who is technically Jewish (maternal grandmother) but don't like to make a song and dance about it, I can tell you there's no such thing as a Jewish look. Saying there is is perpetuating outdated and dangerous stereotypes.:idc:

[Kizzy]

Explain your definition of ‘viciousness’ as I don’t believe I have said anything ‘vicious’. I have criticised mass immigration and the wearing of Burkhas in the West. Burkhas represent female oppression and have no place in the West where women are equal. It is insulting in the opinion of many Western women. I along with other Western women have every right to express such concerns.

How is that vicious? Should such opinions be shut down for fear of offending Muslims - why are their feelings more relevant/important than those of Western women in your book? I find your clear priority for the feelings of Muslim men and women over those of Western women in the West equally as ‘vicious’ if that is the case.

Come on how exactly have my comments been ‘vicious’ - you are just attempting to shut down Western women in their own countries - how dare they object! Not only is that controlling and dictorial it is pretty vicious in my opinion.

As for Corbyn - he wants to hold the most important job in the country - he therefore has responsibilities that you and I do not have and is much more accountable for his actions. If you can’t see that it is a waste of time having any kind of discussion with you on the subject.

And you are harassing here! DR posted examples of the kind of comments that are made here in that could be considered Islamophobic...

Those examples did NOT specifically target you they were posted for reference.

[Kizzy]

As someone who is technically Jewish (maternal grandmother) but don't like to make a song and dance about it, I can tell you there's no such thing as a Jewish look. Saying there is is perpetuating outdated and dangerous stereotypes.:idc:

I would have thought so too but judging by the pics posted it's fine :/
I'm not Jewish but they make me feel really uncomfortable!

[jet]

I would have thought so too but judging by the pics posted it's fine :/
I'm not Jewish but they make me feel really uncomfortable!

But Corbyn and his Labour cronies proven antisemitism remarks don't. ok.

[Brillopad]

And you are harassing here! DR posted examples of the kind of comments that are made here in that could be considered Islamophobic...

Those examples did NOT specifically target you they were posted for reference.

Have you read her comments - they were personal all right! Don’t try that on with me Kizzy - who exactly is attempting to harass who here!

[DemolitionRed]

As someone who is technically Jewish (maternal grandmother) but don't like to make a song and dance about it, I can tell you there's no such thing as a Jewish look. Saying there is is perpetuating outdated and dangerous stereotypes.:idc:

My father-in-law is a Polish Jew and he just looks caucasian. He certainly doesn't look Middle Eastern no matter how hard I stare at him!

[DemolitionRed]

Have you read her comments - they were personal all right! Don’t try that on with me Kizzy - who exactly is attempting to harass who here!

And you never post personal comments about Kizzy or me? You just word them carefully so you don't get infractions but its very clear who you are aiming them at.

[Brillopad]

And you never post personal comments about Kizzy or me? You just word them carefully so you don't get infractions but its very clear who you are aiming them at.

Oh I don’t get infractions. If you say so! :joker:

[jet]

The funny thing is, this thread is about showing empathy and respect to other faiths; something you think Corbyn isn't doing. Yet the lack of empathy and respect for Muslims on here is an entirely different kettle of fish. That religion has been demonized on here again and again (add tedium) and I'm not just talking about the hijab or males repressing females or terrorism I'm talking about the persecution of the religion itself.

Its interesting what you find when you look back though old threads. The same people today are saying the opposite about freedom of speech re- religion.



Talk about closing mosques got this reply


and this






You can't have one rule for one religion and a different for another. You can't say its okay to make jest or speak badly of one faith whilst defending another faith. But on here you clearly can and for that reason I can only conclude that this has much more to do with getting rid of Corbyn and using trumped up ridiculus accusations to do it, it is a Poundland Dodgy Dossier and those willing to bring anti-Semitism in to do this are doing so dishonestly.

Bearing false witness is the 9th Commandment and it is punishable by death in the Mosaic Law.



We are talking about Corbyn here, the leader of the Labour party and his close Labour cronies, not random members of the public posting comments on a forum. I haven’t seen any vile racist comments on here, which says to me they are few and far between and I’m sure those you referenced were not posted by anyone posting in this thread.

Any forum consists of all types of people with different views, the difference is forum members are not hoping to lead the country and are not held to the same standards of someone who is and the party he represents.

You are not in any position to point out any vile remarks (which of course they are) when you are going all out to downplay the vile antisemitism rife in the Labour party proven by their remarks and tolerated by the man who you seem to see as the second coming.
Do you not even see the hypocrisy here? Are you that blinded by your love of Corbyn?

[jet]

And you never post personal comments about Kizzy or me? You just word them carefully so you don't get infractions but its very clear who you are aiming them at.

:joker:
Brillo, stop begging the mods for dem bans. :fist:

[Parmy]

The funny thing is, this thread is about showing empathy and respect to other faiths; something you think Corbyn isn't doing. Yet the lack of empathy and respect for Muslims on here is an entirely different kettle of fish. That religion has been demonized on here again and again (add tedium) and I'm not just talking about the hijab or males repressing females or terrorism I'm talking about the persecution of the religion itself.

Its interesting what you find when you look back though old threads. The same people today are saying the opposite about freedom of speech re- religion.



Talk about closing mosques got this reply


and this






You can't have one rule for one religion and a different for another. You can't say its okay to make jest or speak badly of one faith whilst defending another faith. But on here you clearly can and for that reason I can only conclude that this has much more to do with getting rid of Corbyn and using trumped up ridiculus accusations to do it, it is a Poundland Dodgy Dossier and those willing to bring anti-Semitism in to do this are doing so dishonestly.

Bearing false witness is the 9th Commandment and it is punishable by death in the Mosaic Law.

Go try and start a religion, see if you get any rights....one rule for some....ok in that instance:shrug:

[Kizzy]

After your sarcastic comments on the apparent rantings of others earlier you produce this hypocritical diatribe. Everyone is entitled to their opinions on certain religions whether you like them or not - it is not your call to censor the opinions of others however hard you try.

It seems to me that you have one rule for one religion and a different for another with your total disapproval of any criticism of Islam whilst defending the leader of the political party you support despite documented evidence of his antisemetic opinions on many occasions. One rule for you and another for the rest of us.

Out of interest what relevance do you think that last paragraph has to those that are not Jewish? You really need to take a chill pill? Pure hysterics!

Are the 10 commandments only for the Jewish? I need to have a word with my sunday school teacher :/

[arista]

Agree. Labours leadership has been an issue for quite a while for me. I had fewer issues with the Millibands than I currently have with Corbyn as a leader.


He was New Labour
not a good leader.

[Brillopad]

Are the 10 commandments only for the Jewish? I need to have a word with my sunday school teacher :/

https://bible.org/article/mosaic-law-its-function-and-purpose-new-testament

Firstly no-one was bearing false witness.

Secondly Christians are not under the rule of the Mosaic Law and thirdly many of us are not religious so the point of such a comment was what exactly?

It was a presumptiouus and manipulative thing to say. Attempted emotional blackmail.

I am actually quite shocked by the intention behind such a comment - it was extremely controlling and completely inappropriate.

Btw - You have that word with your Sunday school teacher, as you clearly need it.

Besides I thought you were against capital punishment for murder and terrorism - indeed under any circumstances - but you weakly attempt to defend such a comment on the punishment for ‘bearing false witness’. Now what was that word I was looking for ... :rolleyes:

[DemolitionRed]

:joker:
Brillo, stop begging the mods for dem bans. :fist:

Imagine what it would be like if Kizzy and me were banned. You would have nobody to debate with and likely have very short threads where you all agreed.

[kirklancaster]

Imagine what it would be like if Kizzy and me were banned. You would have nobody to debate with and likely have very short threads where you all agreed.

No one I know of on here desires ANYONE to be banned.

What is desired though, is for thread topics to be able to be debated/discussed without:

1) repeated attempts by SOME to deflect and derail the thread once it becomes clear that THEY are losing the argument.

2) repeated attempts by SOME to render further debate/discussion FUTILE by their use of Circular Argument because THEY know that they have no answers and are losing the debate/discussion.

3) repeated attempts by SOME to make false allegations within a post of being 'baited' or 'targeted' for the purposes of intimidating their opponents into silence and also convincing readers/Mods as a precursor to using the REPORT button purely because they KNOW that they are losing the debate/discussion.

4) repeated attempts by SOME to stealthily 'raise the emotional temperature' of a debate/discussion by clever tactics to elicit 'heated responses' borne of frustration or retaliation. for the purposes of ultimately having a thread CLOSED because they KNOW that they are losing the debate/discussion.

As for your statement that minus you and Kizzy the rest of us would have no one to debate with and have very short threads where we all agreed, that is pure tosh.

NONE of us agrees on every subject and short honest debates where NONE of the above unfair tactics has been employed would be far, far more satisfactory than the longest thread where they are.

[Brillopad]

No one I know of on here desires ANYONE to be banned.

What is desired though, is for thread topics to be able to be debated/discussed without:

1) repeated attempts by SOME to deflect and derail the thread once it becomes clear that THEY are losing the argument.

2) repeated attempts by SOME to render further debate/discussion FUTILE by their use of Circular Argument because THEY know that they have no answers and are losing the debate/discussion.

3) repeated attempts by SOME to make false allegations within a post of being 'baited' or 'targeted' for the purposes of intimidating their opponents into silence and also convincing readers/Mods as a precursor to using the REPORT button purely because they KNOW that they are losing the debate/discussion.

4) repeated attempts by SOME to stealthily 'raise the emotional temperature' of a debate/discussion by clever tactics to elicit 'heated responses' borne of frustration or retaliation. for the purposes of ultimately having a thread CLOSED because they KNOW that they are losing the debate/discussion.

As for your statement that minus you and Kizzy the rest of us would have no one to debate with and have very short threads where we all agreed, that is pure tosh.

NONE of us agrees on every subject and short honest debates where NONE of the above unfair tactics has been employed would be far, far more satisfactory than the longest thread where they are.

Well said again Kirk! :thumbs:

[bots]

there is one thing not now accurate with the thread title .... it's not secret anymore. At least people are now aware and can make their own minds up if Corbyn is doing a good or bad job at eradicating antisemitism from the labour party. They can also make their own minds up at his own behaviour.

[Kizzy]

No one I know of on here desires ANYONE to be banned.

What is desired though, is for thread topics to be able to be debated/discussed without:

1) repeated attempts by SOME to deflect and derail the thread once it becomes clear that THEY are losing the argument.

2) repeated attempts by SOME to render further debate/discussion FUTILE by their use of Circular Argument because THEY know that they have no answers and are losing the debate/discussion.

3) repeated attempts by SOME to make false allegations within a post of being 'baited' or 'targeted' for the purposes of intimidating their opponents into silence and also convincing readers/Mods as a precursor to using the REPORT button purely because they KNOW that they are losing the debate/discussion.

4) repeated attempts by SOME to stealthily 'raise the emotional temperature' of a debate/discussion by clever tactics to elicit 'heated responses' borne of frustration or retaliation. for the purposes of ultimately having a thread CLOSED because they KNOW that they are losing the debate/discussion.

As for your statement that minus you and Kizzy the rest of us would have no one to debate with and have very short threads where we all agreed, that is pure tosh.

NONE of us agrees on every subject and short honest debates where NONE of the above unfair tactics has been employed would be far, far more satisfactory than the longest thread where they are.

This is a discussion forum there are no 'winners and losers'. Should I be accused of being anti British or any other slur I will be sure to raise that within the thread, or report.

'You are not in any position to point out any vile remarks'... Be assured I am and I will, if made on this forum regardless what is said in the wider community.

[Cherie]

Imagine what it would be like if Kizzy and me were banned. You would have nobody to debate with and likely have very short threads where you all agreed.

You don't post here for months at a time, there is still debate in your absence

[DemolitionRed]

No one I know of on here desires ANYONE to be banned.

What is desired though, is for thread topics to be able to be debated/discussed without:

1) repeated attempts by SOME to deflect and derail the thread once it becomes clear that THEY are losing the argument.

Its not losing an argument though is it. When two people are up against a dozen who mock, clap and laugh at anything we say its more like losing the will to live.



2) repeated attempts by SOME to render further debate/discussion FUTILE by their use of Circular Argument because THEY know that they have no answers and are losing the debate/discussion.


Its funny how counter argument is often accused of being off topic or pointless waffle. There are plenty of answers coming from your opposition. Just because you don't agree doesn't make them 'no answers'!


3) repeated attempts by SOME to make false allegations within a post of being 'baited' or 'targeted' for the purposes of intimidating their opponents into silence and also convincing readers/Mods as a precursor to using the REPORT button purely because they KNOW that they are losing the debate/discussion.

I'd like to see you sit in my shoes for a day in here. Even when I write something positive and agreeable, people jump on me and pick holes in what I say. It feels like I'm surrounded by spit hating enemies. I've watched people like me on here stop posting or apologizing upfront before they post anything that may cause a reaction by a mob of posters. Sometimes its clearly a case of, if you can't beat em, join em.
I've had emails on here telling me certain people pm him and try and pester him to come and join in a thread to knock me back. Perhaps he's just a siht stirrer but whether its true or not, its an insidious style of bullying. And yes, I do feel bullied. Perhaps that's because as well as being sensitive towards other peoples misfortune, I'm also sensitive by nature. That doesn't make me a weak person, it just makes me someone who cares passionately about certain issues.


4) repeated attempts by SOME to stealthily 'raise the emotional temperature' of a debate/discussion by clever tactics to elicit 'heated responses' borne of frustration or retaliation. for the purposes of ultimately having a thread CLOSED because they KNOW that they are losing the debate/discussion.

Oh come on Kirk, you love a heated debate.
You keep saying 'losing' as though this is some sort of competition. Does there have to be a winner and a loser in a debate? How many people on here come up with long counter arguments? you do but you are one few, not many. If you want to make this a competition then allow for real counter argument and stop believing that the one liner brigade count in a debate.


As for your statement that minus you and Kizzy the rest of us would have no one to debate with and have very short threads where we all agreed, that is pure tosh.

There are a few people in here who want to get energetic with a post and want to put in their ten penneth worth. There are people in here who seem to thrive on anger and look for insult. This is why threads often go on page after page.

I only come on here because I'm politically minded and enjoy a debate but the debates on here of late have become so one sided because most of the Left no longer post. I'm only here because I'm stubborn and refuse to be chased out but I can't see that lasting. I'm finding it all a bit much. I left here last night feeling so frustrated. I woke up last night thinking about some of the things some people on here are saying and I lay there feeling thoroughly deflated. This isn't a healthy environment for people like me who sit to the Left so I doubt I'll be around on here much longer.

NONE of us agrees on every subject and short honest debates where NONE of the above unfair tactics has been employed would be far, far more satisfactory than the longest thread where they are.

See, there you go, accusing us of tosh. Apart from when I'm replying to flippant troll like posts, I give time and thought to my responses. Just as you have knowledge from your sources, I have knowledge from mine. I am staunchly anti-racist. I'm passionate about human rights and I believe May and her government are dreadful. Those are the things that I talk about, debate, try and reason with.

After re-reading what I've just written, the realization that this place is, on an emotional level, a very unhealthy place for me to express any opinion. I've just sold a painting. We've just bought a new home and I've just had a promotion at work but I'm on here getting frustrated and depressed. I think its time I went off and enjoyed the fruits of my labor.

[Kizzy]

You don't post here for months at a time, there is still debate in your absence

You haven't posted to this thread at all... What's your take on it?

It wouldn't matter if people post daily, monthly or bi-annually as long as when they do they actually contribute.

[Cherie]

You haven't posted to this thread at all... What's your take on it?

It wouldn't matter if people post daily, monthly or bi-annually as long as when they do they actually contribute.

I don't have to have an opinion on everything, you can't be pleased at the moment Kizzy, if I offer an opinion you would probably accuse me of tag teaming so just give over

[Kizzy]

Its not losing an argument though is it. When two people are up against a dozen who mock, clap and laugh at anything we say its more like losing the will to live.



Its funny how counter argument is often accused of being off topic or pointless waffle. There are plenty of answers coming from your opposition. Just because you don't agree doesn't make them 'no answers'!


I'd like to see you sit in my shoes for a day in here. Even when I write something positive and agreeable, people jump on me and pick holes in what I say. It feels like I'm surrounded by spit hating enemies. I've watched people like me on here stop posting or apologizing upfront before they post anything that may cause a reaction by a mob of posters. Sometimes its clearly a case of, if you can't beat em, join em.
I've had emails on here telling me certain people pm him and try and pester him to come and join in a thread to knock me back. Perhaps he's just a siht stirrer but whether its true or not, its an insidious style of bullying. And yes, I do feel bullied. Perhaps that's because as well as being sensitive towards other peoples misfortune, I'm also sensitive by nature. That doesn't make me a weak person, it just makes me someone who cares passionately about certain issues.


Oh come on Kirk, you love a heated debate.
You keep saying 'losing' as though this is some sort of competition. Does there have to be a winner and a loser in a debate? How many people on here come up with long counter arguments? you do but you are one few, not many. If you want to make this a competition then allow for real counter argument and stop believing that the one liner brigade count in a debate.


There are a few people in here who want to get energetic with a post and want to put in their ten penneth worth. There are people in here who seem to thrive on anger and look for insult. This is why threads often go on page after page.

I only come on here because I'm politically minded and enjoy a debate but the debates on here of late have become so one sided because most of the Left no longer post. I'm only here because I'm stubborn and refuse to be chased out but I can't see that lasting. I'm finding it all a bit much. I left here last night feeling so frustrated. I woke up last night thinking about some of the things some people on here are saying and I lay there feeling thoroughly deflated. This isn't a healthy environment for people like me who sit to the Left so I doubt I'll be around on here much longer.


See, there you go, accusing us of tosh. Apart from when I'm replying to flippant troll like posts, I give time and thought to my responses. Just as you have knowledge from your sources, I have knowledge from mine. I am staunchly anti-racist. I'm passionate about human rights and I believe May and her government are dreadful. Those are the things that I talk about, debate, try and reason with.

After re-reading what I've just written, the realization that this place is, on an emotional level, a very unhealthy place for me to express any opinion. I've just sold a painting. We've just bought a new home and I've just had a promotion at work but I'm on here getting frustrated and depressed. I think its time I went off and enjoyed the fruits of my labor.

Lovely post DR totally agree, it does not naturally follow thought that as a supporter of Labour from my perspective it naturally follows that I turn a blind eye to wrongdoing... I don't. I will rationalise it and use examples that counter any prejudice, as there cannot be only one area of focus that in itself is prejudiced.

Should any antisemitism, racism, or Islamophobia be evident in our political sphere eradicate it.

[Kizzy]

I don't have to have an opinion on everything, you can't be pleased at the moment Kizzy, if I offer an opinion you would probably accuse me of tag teaming so just give over

Well thanks for your presumption, if you have nothing to say on the topic there's nothing to discuss is there?

[Cherie]

Well thanks for your presumption, if you have nothing to say on the topic there's nothing to discuss is there?

I can respond to any comments as I see fit as long as I am within the rules, I didn't quote you at all, until you decided to take it on yourself to respond on behalf of DR, yet you accuse others of tag teaming, incredible.

[Kizzy]

I can respond to any comments as I see fit as long as I am within the rules, I didn't quote you at all, until you decided to take it on yourself to respond on behalf of DR, yet you accuse others of tag teaming, incredible.

I haven't mentioned tag teaming... you did.

If you're not commenting on the thread topic and attacking members who are how is that within the rules? :/

[Cherie]

I haven't mentioned tag teaming... you did.

If you're not commenting on the thread topic and attacking members who are how is that within the rules? :/

Not on this thread,

I didn't attack DR, I made a perfectly reasonable response

[Parmy]

its not losing an argument though is it. When two people are up against a dozen who mock, clap and laugh at anything we say its more like losing the will to live.



Its funny how counter argument is often accused of being off topic or pointless waffle. There are plenty of answers coming from your opposition. Just because you don't agree doesn't make them 'no answers'!


I'd like to see you sit in my shoes for a day in here. Even when i write something positive and agreeable, people jump on me and pick holes in what i say. It feels like i'm surrounded by spit hating enemies. I've watched people like me on here stop posting or apologizing upfront before they post anything that may cause a reaction by a mob of posters. Sometimes its clearly a case of, if you can't beat em, join em.
I've had emails on here telling me certain people pm him and try and pester him to come and join in a thread to knock me back. Perhaps he's just a siht stirrer but whether its true or not, its an insidious style of bullying. And yes, i do feel bullied. Perhaps that's because as well as being sensitive towards other peoples misfortune, i'm also sensitive by nature. That doesn't make me a weak person, it just makes me someone who cares passionately about certain issues.


Oh come on kirk, you love a heated debate.
You keep saying 'losing' as though this is some sort of competition. Does there have to be a winner and a loser in a debate? How many people on here come up with long counter arguments? You do but you are one few, not many. If you want to make this a competition then allow for real counter argument and stop believing that the one liner brigade count in a debate.


There are a few people in here who want to get energetic with a post and want to put in their ten penneth worth. There are people in here who seem to thrive on anger and look for insult. This is why threads often go on page after page.

I only come on here because i'm politically minded and enjoy a debate but the debates on here of late have become so one sided because most of the left no longer post. I'm only here because i'm stubborn and refuse to be chased out but i can't see that lasting. I'm finding it all a bit much. I left here last night feeling so frustrated. I woke up last night thinking about some of the things some people on here are saying and i lay there feeling thoroughly deflated. This isn't a healthy environment for people like me who sit to the left so i doubt i'll be around on here much longer.


See, there you go, accusing us of tosh. Apart from when i'm replying to flippant troll like posts, i give time and thought to my responses. Just as you have knowledge from your sources, i have knowledge from mine. I am staunchly anti-racist. I'm passionate about human rights and i believe may and her government are dreadful. Those are the things that i talk about, debate, try and reason with.

After re-reading what i've just written, the realization that this place is, on an emotional level, a very unhealthy place for me to express any opinion. I've just sold a painting. We've just bought a new home and i've just had a promotion at work but i'm on here getting frustrated and depressed. I think its time i went off and enjoyed the fruits of my labor.

i agree with that to be fair.

[Cherie]

completely off topic, is your avatar a pic of onions Kizzy

is that a reference to you know your onions or ...they might be beets...

[jet]

completely off topic, is your avatar a pic of onions Kizzy

is that a reference to you know your onions or ...they might be beets...

:joker:

[Brillopad]

Lovely post DR totally agree, it does not naturally follow thought that as a supporter of Labour from my perspective it naturally follows that I turn a blind eye to wrongdoing... I don't. I will rationalise it and use examples that counter any prejudice, as there cannot be only one area of focus that in itself is prejudiced.

Should any antisemitism, racism, or Islamophobia be evident in our political sphere eradicate it.

Maybe you should instruct Corbyn to do the same.

[Brillopad]

I haven't mentioned tag teaming... you did.

If you're not commenting on the thread topic and attacking members who are how is that within the rules? :/

You often incorrectly accuse people of tag-teaming - but when with DR you like to indulge. People can read Kizzy!

[Cherie]

:joker:

That was a genuine question but I can see now how it could be misread :laugh:

[jet]

That was a genuine question but I can see now how it could be misread :laugh:

:omgno: :laugh:

[jaxie]

Its not losing an argument though is it. When two people are up against a dozen who mock, clap and laugh at anything we say its more like losing the will to live.



Its funny how counter argument is often accused of being off topic or pointless waffle. There are plenty of answers coming from your opposition. Just because you don't agree doesn't make them 'no answers'!


I'd like to see you sit in my shoes for a day in here. Even when I write something positive and agreeable, people jump on me and pick holes in what I say. It feels like I'm surrounded by spit hating enemies. I've watched people like me on here stop posting or apologizing upfront before they post anything that may cause a reaction by a mob of posters. Sometimes its clearly a case of, if you can't beat em, join em.
I've had emails on here telling me certain people pm him and try and pester him to come and join in a thread to knock me back. Perhaps he's just a siht stirrer but whether its true or not, its an insidious style of bullying. And yes, I do feel bullied. Perhaps that's because as well as being sensitive towards other peoples misfortune, I'm also sensitive by nature. That doesn't make me a weak person, it just makes me someone who cares passionately about certain issues.


Oh come on Kirk, you love a heated debate.
You keep saying 'losing' as though this is some sort of competition. Does there have to be a winner and a loser in a debate? How many people on here come up with long counter arguments? you do but you are one few, not many. If you want to make this a competition then allow for real counter argument and stop believing that the one liner brigade count in a debate.


There are a few people in here who want to get energetic with a post and want to put in their ten penneth worth. There are people in here who seem to thrive on anger and look for insult. This is why threads often go on page after page.

I only come on here because I'm politically minded and enjoy a debate but the debates on here of late have become so one sided because most of the Left no longer post. I'm only here because I'm stubborn and refuse to be chased out but I can't see that lasting. I'm finding it all a bit much. I left here last night feeling so frustrated. I woke up last night thinking about some of the things some people on here are saying and I lay there feeling thoroughly deflated. This isn't a healthy environment for people like me who sit to the Left so I doubt I'll be around on here much longer.


See, there you go, accusing us of tosh. Apart from when I'm replying to flippant troll like posts, I give time and thought to my responses. Just as you have knowledge from your sources, I have knowledge from mine. I am staunchly anti-racist. I'm passionate about human rights and I believe May and her government are dreadful. Those are the things that I talk about, debate, try and reason with.

After re-reading what I've just written, the realization that this place is, on an emotional level, a very unhealthy place for me to express any opinion. I've just sold a painting. We've just bought a new home and I've just had a promotion at work but I'm on here getting frustrated and depressed. I think its time I went off and enjoyed the fruits of my labor.

I really do think a lot of that is paranoia and fantasy but if you honestly think people who disagree with you on a forum are the equivalent of spitting on you why are you here? Why keep flouncing off and returning? That's not healthy. :shrug:

I think a lot of posters on this forum have political disillusion and apathy but you seem to mistake not agreeing with you to being some kind of political enemy.

[kirklancaster]

Reposted due to formatting problem

[kirklancaster]

Kizzy;9951533] "This is a discussion forum there are no 'winners and losers'. Should I be accused of being anti British or any other slur I will be sure to raise that within the thread, or report. "

^This is actually a ''SERIOUS DEBATES forum by Official Title, and in any type of Debate, there is ALWAYS a 'Winner' be that by Formal Judging decision or 'Audience Perception Conviction' in a 'Community' such as this one."

ANYONE who engages in a Debate on this forum is seeking to achieve MORE than merely airing an OPINION or they would NOT keep returning to the thread to ARGUE against COUNTER OPINIONS.

No, they are seeking to CONVINCE that their OPINION, their VIEW, their PREMISE, is the CORRECT one.

Failing to convince becomes apparent in Debate/Discussions on TIBB when more members are DRAWN into the thread who argue AGAINST the opinion or PREMISE than who do FOR that Premise.

The above by the way is all too often seized upon by those who DO perceive themselves to be losing a debate and used to wrongly complain about 'Gangs' and 'Tag-Teaming' etc when it is simply the fact that there are MORE members who DISAGREE with a premise and the following arguments supporting that premise, than there are members agreeing with it.

Failing to convince and 'losing' an argument also becomes apparent when the opposing argument is weighted with corroborating FACTS which are irrefutable.

The phrase 'Losing An argument' HAS a counterpart.

"'You are not in any position to point out any vile remarks'... Be assured I am and I will, if made on this forum regardless what is said in the wider community."

^ I am completely baffled as to why you include the above in a response to me because I have NEVER uttered the words which you have reproduced in inverted commas???

Good for you though that you are so diligent and vigilant when it comes to policing the forum for 'vile' remarks.

[Ammi]

Its not losing an argument though is it. When two people are up against a dozen who mock, clap and laugh at anything we say its more like losing the will to live.



Its funny how counter argument is often accused of being off topic or pointless waffle. There are plenty of answers coming from your opposition. Just because you don't agree doesn't make them 'no answers'!


I'd like to see you sit in my shoes for a day in here. Even when I write something positive and agreeable, people jump on me and pick holes in what I say. It feels like I'm surrounded by spit hating enemies. I've watched people like me on here stop posting or apologizing upfront before they post anything that may cause a reaction by a mob of posters. Sometimes its clearly a case of, if you can't beat em, join em.
I've had emails on here telling me certain people pm him and try and pester him to come and join in a thread to knock me back. Perhaps he's just a siht stirrer but whether its true or not, its an insidious style of bullying. And yes, I do feel bullied. Perhaps that's because as well as being sensitive towards other peoples misfortune, I'm also sensitive by nature. That doesn't make me a weak person, it just makes me someone who cares passionately about certain issues.


Oh come on Kirk, you love a heated debate.
You keep saying 'losing' as though this is some sort of competition. Does there have to be a winner and a loser in a debate? How many people on here come up with long counter arguments? you do but you are one few, not many. If you want to make this a competition then allow for real counter argument and stop believing that the one liner brigade count in a debate.


There are a few people in here who want to get energetic with a post and want to put in their ten penneth worth. There are people in here who seem to thrive on anger and look for insult. This is why threads often go on page after page.

I only come on here because I'm politically minded and enjoy a debate but the debates on here of late have become so one sided because most of the Left no longer post. I'm only here because I'm stubborn and refuse to be chased out but I can't see that lasting. I'm finding it all a bit much. I left here last night feeling so frustrated. I woke up last night thinking about some of the things some people on here are saying and I lay there feeling thoroughly deflated. This isn't a healthy environment for people like me who sit to the Left so I doubt I'll be around on here much longer.


See, there you go, accusing us of tosh. Apart from when I'm replying to flippant troll like posts, I give time and thought to my responses. Just as you have knowledge from your sources, I have knowledge from mine. I am staunchly anti-racist. I'm passionate about human rights and I believe May and her government are dreadful. Those are the things that I talk about, debate, try and reason with.

After re-reading what I've just written, the realization that this place is, on an emotional level, a very unhealthy place for me to express any opinion. I've just sold a painting. We've just bought a new home and I've just had a promotion at work but I'm on here getting frustrated and depressed. I think its time I went off and enjoyed the fruits of my labor.



..since reading your words, DR...I’ve deliberated a bit about whether I should respond...I haven’t contributed to this discussion is one thing...but also, I personally have often felt hostility from you, from the off really...so I’m probably not the right person, anyway....but hey ho, here I am..:laugh:...

...you say it’s not a competition with a winner../..loser, type thing...which is true, that isn’t what ‘debate’ is in its fundamentals...but then..(..you appear, unless I’m misunderstanding...)...to have looked through past threads and then brought some things from those into this thread...things that have no value or bearing to anti-semitism within the Labour Party...which does very much have a feeling of...haha, there you go...of it being a competition of ‘having the last word’...that you yourself feel as though there has to be a ‘winner or a loser’ as well....I mean, I just can’t see any other value of bringing in past threads and past words etc...


...’spit hating enemies’...I read your blog DR about detoxing..?...and you mentioned ‘hate’ in there...(...I did want to do a post in the blog but it’s didnt seem to have the facility for response..)...you have assumed ‘hate’ from others for you...?...there are many emotions I think we all see in SD, particularly with political debates...but ‘hate’ is not one of those emotions I personally have ever seen from anyone and for anyone...irritation, anger, frustration etc and such the like ...and yes, that has led to ‘personal and insulting’...on many occasions from different people...but even through that, hate has never been displayed so far as I can see....and yet you say that you feel hate yourself toward people...that’s something I think you need to address yourself, DR...whether you do genuinely feel ‘hate’ toward forum members...but I doubt you do though...I mean genuinely feel it...you just don’t seem like a ‘hate’ person to me....but you do seem like a very frustrated person...when you say..’even when I post something positive’...?...hmmmmm, well I guess when you’ve expressed much negativity about the forum in general and specific people etc also...that positive stuff has kind of been countered somewhat...so maybe ‘holes are picked’ more readily because of negativity and hostility others have felt from you as well..?...I don’t know, I am trying to put myself in your shoes, as you say DR...but I’m also trying to slip on the shoes of others as well...to try to see why the whole thing of political stuff does seem to be more ‘point scoring’ and a winner../..loser thing....


...anyways DR...with your last paragraph and how things in your life are for you know atm...maybe it’s time for you not to be here any more and to go off and enjoy...?...etc....but you have and have had all of those things in your life..and yet you’ve still felt you’ve wanted to be part of discussions on TiBB because as you say, you’re politically minded...so that ‘political mind’ needs a voice as well and a release to create balance...how could you keep your political mind if you just go off and enjoy all the good stuff in your life right now...:laugh:...


...what I’m trying to say, DR...is that I feel quite confident that there is no ‘hate’ felt toward you from anyone on this forum...(..regardless of how frustrating some threads can become at times..)...and I also feel and sense that you don’t feel ‘hate’ either toward anyone....you’re here as we all are..because despite all of ‘the silliness and mess’ at times...we all get something quite positive from being here as well...so log back on when you’re ready, yeah....

[kirklancaster]

My father-in-law is a Polish Jew and he just looks caucasian. He certainly doesn't look Middle Eastern no matter how hard I stare at him!

LOOK, let me put a stop to all this NONSENSE.

I related a perfectly true, small but amusing incident which happened to me in a car park in York, and I posted it on CHAT - not Serious Debates.

A COMPLETELY innocent remark which I made during that post has been SEIZED upon by certain members for THEIR OWN PURPOSES, then TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT, and replicated UNTRUTHFULLY.

HERE below is EXACTLY what I wrote:

"As I neared him I saw that he was obviously Jewish and resembled Woody Allen and he was still pressing his fob like mad and trying to open the van door. "

"As I neared him I saw that he was obviously Jewish"

DOES that sentence SAY that:

1) ALL Jewish people HAVE a 'Jewish Look'?
2) ALL Jewish people have a MIDDLE EASTERN look?

NO, IT DOES NOT.

Does that sentence say that:

3) 'Looking Jewish' is a BAD thing?

It says quite innocuously that IN THE CASE OF THIS PARTICULAR INDIVIDUAL as I neared him it was obvious that he was Jewish.

He did not wear a 'Kippah' and nor was he dancing around my van singing 'Hava Nagila' but JUST AS CERTAINLY as if it had been Woody Allen himself trying my van door, or Rabbi Lionel Blue or Jackie Mason or Mel Brooks - I could TELL that HE was Jewish.

So perhaps we can drop the disingenuous posts about any 'JEWISH LOOK' because I did NOT say any such thing and all the ensuing 'HOO-HA' is based squarely on DELIBERATE MISREPRESENTATION.

As for your 'Polish Jew' Father-In-Law - So what? NO ONE is saying that ALL people who are Jewish LOOK 'Middle-Eastern' - I AM MOST CERTAINLY NOT because I KNOW differently.

In my youth, I dated the most beautiful girl in Sheffield. She had a fair complexion, vivid blue eyes and long blond hair. She was Jewish and proudly wore a Star of David gold medallion around her neck.

SHE did not look Jewish and NOT everyone who is Jewish LOOKS Jewish so can we now PLEASE leave this B.S. here?

[Ammi]

...I’m hopeless with thoughts and words in the mornings...well most times of day tbh...but DR, whether you and I have found any connection at all personally...I do feel you contribute a lot with debates and discussions...people agreeing with you is not really the focus..it’s just really about your own thoughts etc and your own ‘passion’...in my heart, I feel that you feel much positivity in contributing and being part of the forum a well and part of debates...so there is no ‘pointless’ involved...don’t walk away from something that gives you something so much that you’ve felt the need to contribute in the ways that you have...keep going with that ‘fight’...

[kirklancaster]

..since reading your words, DR...I’ve deliberated a bit about whether I should respond...I haven’t contributed to this discussion is one thing...but also, I personally have often felt hostility from you, from the off really...so I’m probably not the right person, anyway....but hey ho, here I am..:laugh:...

...you say it’s not a competition with a winner../..loser, type thing...which is true, that isn’t what ‘debate’ is in its fundamentals...but then..(..you appear, unless I’m misunderstanding...)...to have looked through past threads and then brought some things from those into this thread...things that have no value or bearing to anti-semitism within the Labour Party...which does very much have a feeling of...haha, there you go...of it being a competition of ‘having the last word’...that you yourself feel as though there has to be a ‘winner or a loser’ as well....I mean, I just can’t see any other value of bringing in past threads and past words etc...


...’spit hating enemies’...I read your blog DR about detoxing..?...and you mentioned ‘hate’ in there...(...I did want to do a post in the blog but it’s didnt seem to have the facility for response..)...you have assumed ‘hate’ from others for you...?...there are many emotions I think we all see in SD, particularly with political debates...but ‘hate’ is not one of those emotions I personally have ever seen from anyone and for anyone...irritation, anger, frustration etc and such the like ...and yes, that has led to ‘personal and insulting’...on many occasions from different people...but even through that, hate has never been displayed so far as I can see....and yet you say that you feel hate yourself toward people...that’s something I think you need to address yourself, DR...whether you do genuinely feel ‘hate’ toward forum members...but I doubt you do though...I mean genuinely feel it...you just don’t seem like a ‘hate’ person to me....but you do seem like a very frustrated person...when you say..’even when I post something positive’...?...hmmmmm, well I guess when you’ve expressed much negativity about the forum in general and specific people etc also...that positive stuff has kind of been countered somewhat...so maybe ‘holes are picked’ more readily because of negativity and hostility others have felt from you as well..?...I don’t know, I am trying to put myself in your shoes, as you say DR...but I’m also trying to slip on the shoes of others as well...to try to see why the whole thing of political stuff does seem to be more ‘point scoring’ and a winner../..loser thing....


...anyways DR...with your last paragraph and how things in your life are for you know atm...maybe it’s time for you not to be here any more and to go off and enjoy...?...etc....but you have and have had all of those things in your life..and yet you’ve still felt you’ve wanted to be part of discussions on TiBB because as you say, you’re politically minded...so that ‘political mind’ needs a voice as well and a release to create balance...how could you keep your political mind if you just go off and enjoy all the good stuff in your life right now...:laugh:...


...what I’m trying to say, DR...is that I feel quite confident that there is no ‘hate’ felt toward you from anyone on this forum...(..regardless of how frustrating some threads can become at times..)...and I also feel and sense that you don’t feel ‘hate’ either toward anyone....you’re here as we all are..because despite all of ‘the silliness and mess’ at times...we all get something quite positive from being here as well...so log back on when you’re ready, yeah....

:clap1::clap1::clap1: Another BEAUTIFUL insightful post Ammi.

[jaxie]

..since reading your words, DR...I’ve deliberated a bit about whether I should respond...I haven’t contributed to this discussion is one thing...but also, I personally have often felt hostility from you, from the off really...so I’m probably not the right person, anyway....but hey ho, here I am..:laugh:...

...you say it’s not a competition with a winner../..loser, type thing...which is true, that isn’t what ‘debate’ is in its fundamentals...but then..(..you appear, unless I’m misunderstanding...)...to have looked through past threads and then brought some things from those into this thread...things that have no value or bearing to anti-semitism within the Labour Party...which does very much have a feeling of...haha, there you go...of it being a competition of ‘having the last word’...that you yourself feel as though there has to be a ‘winner or a loser’ as well....I mean, I just can’t see any other value of bringing in past threads and past words etc...


...’spit hating enemies’...I read your blog DR about detoxing..?...and you mentioned ‘hate’ in there...(...I did want to do a post in the blog but it’s didnt seem to have the facility for response..)...you have assumed ‘hate’ from others for you...?...there are many emotions I think we all see in SD, particularly with political debates...but ‘hate’ is not one of those emotions I personally have ever seen from anyone and for anyone...irritation, anger, frustration etc and such the like ...and yes, that has led to ‘personal and insulting’...on many occasions from different people...but even through that, hate has never been displayed so far as I can see....and yet you say that you feel hate yourself toward people...that’s something I think you need to address yourself, DR...whether you do genuinely feel ‘hate’ toward forum members...but I doubt you do though...I mean genuinely feel it...you just don’t seem like a ‘hate’ person to me....but you do seem like a very frustrated person...when you say..’even when I post something positive’...?...hmmmmm, well I guess when you’ve expressed much negativity about the forum in general and specific people etc also...that positive stuff has kind of been countered somewhat...so maybe ‘holes are picked’ more readily because of negativity and hostility others have felt from you as well..?...I don’t know, I am trying to put myself in your shoes, as you say DR...but I’m also trying to slip on the shoes of others as well...to try to see why the whole thing of political stuff does seem to be more ‘point scoring’ and a winner../..loser thing....


...anyways DR...with your last paragraph and how things in your life are for you know atm...maybe it’s time for you not to be here any more and to go off and enjoy...?...etc....but you have and have had all of those things in your life..and yet you’ve still felt you’ve wanted to be part of discussions on TiBB because as you say, you’re politically minded...so that ‘political mind’ needs a voice as well and a release to create balance...how could you keep your political mind if you just go off and enjoy all the good stuff in your life right now...:laugh:...


...what I’m trying to say, DR...is that I feel quite confident that there is no ‘hate’ felt toward you from anyone on this forum...(..regardless of how frustrating some threads can become at times..)...and I also feel and sense that you don’t feel ‘hate’ either toward anyone....you’re here as we all are..because despite all of ‘the silliness and mess’ at times...we all get something quite positive from being here as well...so log back on when you’re ready, yeah....

That's a great post Ammi, very caring but honest.

[Livia]

Thought y'all would appreciate a little light humour...

https://saboteur365.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/jewishpeople.jpg

[Kazanne]

Thought y'all would appreciate a little light humour...

https://saboteur365.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/jewishpeople.jpg

:laugh: wasn't expecting that :wavey:

[Livia]

Hey Kaz. I have this theory that Jews generally have a great sense of humour because they have to deal with anti-Semitic bullcrap every ten to twenty years. It's like the world's taking turns!

[Twosugars]

ten to twenty years? that's optimistic

[user104658]

I've always quite like jews but, I have to be honest, it's mainly because of Jeff Goldblum in Independence Day.

[Crimson Dynamo]

the problem with jews is the whole god bollocks, if they would just admit there is not god then its quite a decent club

good food, humour, hard working, good family stuff (minus the child mutilation) and catchy music

:hee:

[Twosugars]

loads of Jews are not religious and it doesn't seem to make much difference

[user104658]

the problem with jews is the whole god bollocks, if they would just admit there is not god then its quite a decent club

good food, humour, hard working, good family stuff (minus the child mutilation) and catchy music

:hee:

I reckon they're closer to giving up the supernatural element than the other religions, to be fair. Catholics are up there too to be fair. You really do not have to believe in God at all to be Catholic.

[bots]

the problem with jews is the whole god bollocks, if they would just admit there is not god then its quite a decent club

good food, humour, hard working, good family stuff (minus the child mutilation) and catchy music

:hee:

We will know when Jeremy has turned a corner when he starts whistling fiddler on the roof

[Kazanne]

Hey Kaz. I have this theory that Jews generally have a great sense of humour because they have to deal with anti-Semitic bullcrap every ten to twenty years. It's like the world's taking turns!

Well when I worked in New York as a nanny to a Jewish family ,they were the most hospitable,wonderful people I ever met,I am still in touch with them now,I was told by the grandma stories about the holocaust, it was so interesting and sad,but the old lady was so lovely I will never forget her,I lived with them for a year,so got to know them pretty well,my fave people ever.

[Livia]

the problem with jews is the whole god bollocks, if they would just admit there is not god then its quite a decent club

good food, humour, hard working, good family stuff (minus the child mutilation) and catchy music

:hee:

I reckon they're closer to giving up the supernatural element than the other religions, to be fair. Catholics are up there too to be fair. You really do not have to believe in God at all to be Catholic.

You two should watch Simon Schama's Story of the Jews. You might understand why we're still here, despite millennia of being cast out of various countries, of being massacred and stripped of everything but our holy books, we're still here. And we still believe.

[user104658]

You two should watch Simon Schama's Story of the Jews. You might understand why we're still here, despite millennia of being cast out of various countries, of being massacred and stripped of everything but our holy books, we're still here. And we still believe.Well... You still believe, and I'm sure many still believe, but if you're claiming that everyone who considers themself to be "culturally Jewish" is actually religious or believes in God then you are just being economical with the truth.

[Livia]

Well... You still believe, and I'm sure many still believe, but if you're claiming that everyone who considers themself to be "culturally Jewish" is actually religious or believes in God then you are just being economical with the truth.

When have I ever said I speak for every Jew? Maybe it's you being economical with the truth? I'm not the one wildly generalising about Jews.

The fact is, TS, if we were discussing Islamophobia people would be up in arms. But it's the Jews. And some people are genuinely unmoved by the fact that there is anti-Semitism in the country, let alone the Labour party.

I'm kind of tired of having it explained to me, and excuses made for it.

[Livia]

Labour Party of Israel cuts all ties with Corbyn's office.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10155491622986200&set=a.10151070392566200.433019.675646199&type=3&theater

[chuff me dizzy]

Labour Party of Israel cuts all ties with Corbyn's office.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10155491622986200&set=a.10151070392566200.433019.675646199&type=3&theater

What can't speak can't lie as my Mam used to say :shrug:

[jet]

When have I ever said I speak for every Jew? Maybe it's you being economical with the truth? I'm not the one wildly generalising about Jews.

The fact is, TS, if we were discussing Islamophobia people would be up in arms. But it's the Jews. And some people are genuinely unmoved by the fact that there is anti-Semitism in the country, let alone the Labour party.

I'm kind of tired of having it explained to me, and excuses made for it.

Yes, some cry racist at the slightest opportunity but when it comes to antisemitism they write the biggest load of crap trying to make excuses for it. It's been a real eye opener; odd how they only 'care' when it suits their own agenda's. Sickening.

[chuff me dizzy]

Yes, some cry racist at the slightest opportunity but when it comes to antisemitism they write the biggest load of crap trying to make excuses for it. It's been a real eye opener; odd how they only 'care' when it suits their own agenda's. Sickening.

All true

[jet]

Great, astute posts from Kirk and Ammi as always. :clap1:

[user104658]

Yes, some cry racist at the slightest opportunity but when it comes to antisemitism they write the biggest load of crap trying to make excuses for it. It's been a real eye opener; odd how they only 'care' when it suits their own agenda's. Sickening.Can you not simply flip that right on its head, though? People will say that things that question Muslim culture are "definitely not Islamophobia, its more complicated than that", yet in the very next breath declare that any word against Judaism (including Zionism) IS definitely anti-semitism and its not complicated at all. :think:

So I agree - double standards all round, but we have to decide which it is at some point. Either general criticism of religious / ethnic / cultural elements is fair game, or it isn't.

[jet]

Can you not simply flip that right on its head, though? People will say that things that question Muslim culture are "definitely not Islamophobia, its more complicated than that", yet in the very next breath declare that any word against Judaism (including Zionism) IS definitely anti-semitism and its not complicated at all. :think:

So I agree - double standards all round, but we have to decide which it is at some point. Either general criticism of religious / ethnic / cultural elements is fair game, or it isn't.

Do you call the vile things posted by Corbyn's Labour pals about Jews just 'any word against Judaism?' - or Corbyn's support of the mural and his malaise in stamping out the antisemitism 'just any word' for that matter? Because its not 'just any word', is it, it's extreme and pervasive.
Flip it right on its head and think if May and the Tories had done/were doing the same against Muslims - would May supporters on this forum be bending over backwards to make excuses for her and her cronies like some Corbyn supporters here have done for their Idol? I don't think so! There would be uproar, and rightly so!
They cry RACIST and act like like sniffer dogs when any aspect, however slight, of any criticism of Islam is mentioned. But because it's Corbyn and his pals the excuses are wheeled out to excuse the antisemitism and its not poor Jeremy's fault anyway - its the big bad media out to destroy him. It's blatant hypocrisy and its pathetic - and very worrying.

[Livia]

Can you not simply flip that right on its head, though? People will say that things that question Muslim culture are "definitely not Islamophobia, its more complicated than that", yet in the very next breath declare that any word against Judaism (including Zionism) IS definitely anti-semitism and its not complicated at all. :think:

So I agree - double standards all round, but we have to decide which it is at some point. Either general criticism of religious / ethnic / cultural elements is fair game, or it isn't.

I suppose the main difference is that Islamic terrorists are waging war on the West, killing innocents, wanting to drag us all back to the dark ages. Check out all the top ten lists of most wanted terrorists and tell me what they all have in common. And we ALL understand that Muslims are generally peaceful... Islamists and Jihadists though, they're terrorists.

Jewish people haven't waged war on anyone, and yet here we are, in 2018, having to accept the usual sickening racism because we're only Jews.

Anti-Semitism is more and more accepted. And when supporters of a major political party ignore a protest by ordinary, moderate Jews, with no axe to grind, I shouldn't be surprised at all the comments on here in support of Corbyn and his party.

[user104658]

Flip it right on its head and think if May and the Tories had done/were doing the same against Muslims - would May supporters on this forum be bending over backwards to make excuses for her and her cronies like some Corbyn supporters here have done for their Idol? I don't think so! There would be uproar, and rightly so!


With 100% certainty, yes, some people would be doing exactly that.



For what it's worth, boringly enough, I'm middle ground on this one. Yes the language used goes too far and veers into anti-semitism. But I also think there's (plenty of) scope for criticism of Israel and Zionism, that has nothing at all to do with most Jews, but is very firmly "taken off the table for discussion" as people are afraid of being branded anti-semites.

The same goes for Islam of course; there's plenty of scope for criticising aspects of Islam, not even just the extremism but some of the general cultural attitudes, and those are shot down unfairly. However - as with the above - it would also be false to say that those criticisms never veer into the territory of Islamophobia. :shrug:

It SHOULD be the case, on all topics, that people can raise any points they want to so long as they don't start generalising too much and answer things thoughtfully and considerately... But I think the world (and this forum along with) is not really "in that place", at least not right now.

[jet]

With 100% certainty, yes, some people would be doing exactly that.



For what it's worth, boringly enough, I'm middle ground on this one. Yes the language used goes too far and veers into anti-semitism. But I also think there's (plenty of) scope for criticism of Israel and Zionism, that has nothing at all to do with most Jews, but is very firmly "taken off the table for discussion" as people are afraid of being branded anti-semites.

The same goes for Islam of course; there's plenty of scope for criticising aspects of Islam, not even just the extremism but some of the general cultural attitudes, and those are shot down unfairly. However - as with the above - it would also be false to say that those criticisms never veer into the territory of Islamophobia. :shrug:

It SHOULD be the case, on all topics, that people can raise any points they want to so long as they don't start generalising too much and answer things thoughtfully and considerately... But I think the world (and this forum along with) is not really "in that place", at least not right now.

I honestly can't think of one person here who would go to the extremes of denial that some Corbyn supporters have. Does May have fanatical followers? D: People are deserting their principles to defend this man, no matter what he has done or is doing.
Israel and Zionism are not the topic of this thread and were used repeatedly to divert attention away from Labour and antisemitism. I suggested several times to Red who professed great interest in those subjects that he make a dedicated thread as I would like to learn more about them, but this was ignored.
I agree with your last paragraph.

[Brillopad]

I suppose the main difference is that Islamic terrorists are waging war on the West, killing innocents, wanting to drag us all back to the dark ages. Check out all the top ten lists of most wanted terrorists and tell me what they all have in common. And we ALL understand that Muslims are generally peaceful... Islamists and Jihadists though, they're terrorists.

Jewish people haven't waged war on anyone, and yet here we are, in 2018, having to accept the usual sickening racism because we're only Jews.

Anti-Semitism is more and more accepted. And when supporters of a major political party ignore a protest by ordinary, moderate Jews, with no axe to grind, I shouldn't be surprised at all the comments on here in support of Corbyn and his party.

I agree with this! Jewish people aren’t running children down and planting bombs at pop concerts. No comparison.

[Brillopad]

I honestly can't think of one person here who would go to the extremes of denial that some Corbyn supporters have. Does May have fanatical followers? D: People are deserting their principles to defend this man, no matter what he has done or is doing.
Israel and Zionism are not the topic of this thread and were used repeatedly to divert attention away from Labour and antisemitism. I suggested several times to Red who professed great interest in those subjects that he make a dedicated thread as I would like to learn more about them, but this was ignored.
I agree with your last paragraph.

Many Corbyn supporters had very high expectations of him and blindly believed all his empty promises. They will not accept that he isn’t the man they wanted him to be as they can’t face up to being exposed as such bad judges of character. It is easier to detract than face the truth. How long can they do that though!

[kirklancaster]

Great, astute posts from Kirk and Ammi as always. :clap1:

Thank you, Jet. It's nice to hear that some people appreciate my 'boring diatribes'.

[Marsh.]

Can I excuse myself from giving a direct opinion on that. I would hate having to lie about it! :hehe:

That's what made it doubly funny. :laugh:

The hypocrisy and the double standards would actually be hilarious if it wasn't so sad.

[kirklancaster]

With 100% certainty, yes, some people would be doing exactly that.

For what it's worth, boringly enough, I'm middle ground on this one. Yes the language used goes too far and veers into anti-semitism. But I also think there's (plenty of) scope for criticism of Israel and Zionism, that has nothing at all to do with most Jews, but is very firmly "taken off the table for discussion" as people are afraid of being branded anti-semites.

The same goes for Islam of course; there's plenty of scope for criticising aspects of Islam, not even just the extremism but some of the general cultural attitudes, and those are shot down unfairly. However - as with the above - it would also be false to say that those criticisms never veer into the territory of Islamophobia. :shrug:

It SHOULD be the case, on all topics, that people can raise any points they want to so long as they don't start generalising too much and answer things thoughtfully and considerately... But I think the world (and this forum along with) is not really "in that place", at least not right now.

Anti-Semitism in the UK is far more WIDESPREAD than Islamaphobia and HAS been for many decades.

EVERY single day, incidents by antiSemitic bullies against innocent Jewish people go virtually unreported - or if reported go virtually unnoticed.

Whereas supporting Islam and railing loudly against Islamaphobics is fashionable and Politically Correct, anti-Semitism is not such a big deal to so-called liberals and progressives - which is WHY Corbyn and his Labour Party have been TEFLON-COATED for so extraordinary a long time given the facts of THEIR antiSemitism.

Here's a snippet about Anti-Semitism which WAS 'picked up' by some 'National Newspapers':
Student is suspended at £35,000-a-year boarding school for 'trying to force-feed Jewish schoolboy HAM pizza'

Clifton College student was suspended after he tried to feed a Jewish pupil ham.

The boy 'suffered psychologically' after the incident at the £35k-a-year school
The prestigious school in Bristol said anti-Semitism is 'abhorrent and 'pernicious'.

The Jewish teenager remained at the prestigious school alongside his alleged attacker, who was allowed back into classes after a short suspension.

Insiders said the suspended boy was on the periphery of another incident at the school a few years ago where a pupil - who was later expelled - wore a Nazi costume.

The Jewish student was at the prestigious Clifton College in Bristol (pictured) and was almost forced to eat a pizza with ham toppings

Religious community leaders and parents have voiced concerns about the incident, which happened in December.

The school has its own synagogue and had a schoolhouse dedicated to Jewish students until 2005.

A high profile member of Bristol's Jewish community, who wished to remain anonymous, said: 'I would like to express disappointment felt by the local Jewish community at the school's lack of response.

'It isn't the first case of anti-Semitism at Clifton College.

'The fact it happened in the first place is awful but the way in which Clifton College has brushed it under the carpet is much worse.

[jet]

The hypocrisy and the double standards would actually be hilarious if it wasn't so sad.

It would have been funny to me if it had said 'Jet' or any other forum member...:shrug:

[Marsh.]

It would have been funny to me if it had said 'Jet' or any other forum member...:shrug:

I don't really care tbh.

If you were being discussed in a thread you weren't involved in you'd soon be hitting that report button.

[Brillopad]

The hypocrisy and the double standards would actually be hilarious if it wasn't so sad.

What’s sad is you coming back immediately on the attack. :wavey:

[Marsh.]

What’s sad is you coming back immediately on the attack. :wavey:

You discussed me. Just remember that when you're throwing blame onto others.

[jet]

I don't really care tbh.

If you were being discussed in a thread you weren't involved in you'd soon be hitting that report button.

Wrong. I rarely report anything. Maybe 3 times a year.

I just found it funny, it really wasn't personal. I apologise for offending you.

[Marsh.]

Wrong. I rarely report anything. Maybe 3 times a year.

I just found it funny, it really wasn't personal. I apologise for offending you.

You didn't offend me, I just found it hypocritical discussing other members you don't really get on with. If I'd done it, you'd no doubt have had something to say.

But hey-ho. Done now.

[Maru]

Report: Anti-Semitism rises, but violence against Jews falls
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/04/11/report-anti-semitism-rises-but-violence-against-jews-falls.html

TEL AVIV, Israel – Violent attacks on Jews worldwide dropped in 2017 despite a rise in other forms of anti-Semitism, researchers reported Wednesday, in a year characterized by normalization and mainstreaming of anti-Semitism not seen in Europe since World War II.

Researchers at Tel Aviv University said assaults specifically targeting Jews fell 9 percent last year. They recorded 327 cases compared to 361 in 2016, which had already been the lowest number in a decade.

But they noted attacks were far more brazen. Most dramatic were a pair of cases in France, where a Jewish woman was thrown to her death out of her apartment window and a Holocaust survivor was stabbed and burned to death in her Paris home.

Threats, harassment and insults have also driven thousands of French Jews to relocate.

"Neither the public nor the private space is perceived as safe for Jews," said Moshe Kantor, president of the European Jewish Congress, an umbrella group representing Jewish communities across the continent. "The general feeling shared by Jews, as individuals and as a community, is that anti-Semitism has entered a new phase, and is widespread in most parts of the world."

Tel Aviv University's Kantor Center for the Study of Contemporary European Jewry releases the report every year on the eve of Israel's Holocaust memorial day, which begins Wednesday at sundown.

Increased security measures are credited with reducing violence, but it may be masking a trend of anti-Semitism becoming more mainstream and acceptable, particularly in European politics. The report described a toxic triangle made up of the rise of the extreme right, radical Islamism and a heated anti-Zionist discourse on the left accompanied by anti-Semitic expressions.

"The religious dimension of classic, traditional anti-Semitism has returned, and the term 'Jew' has become an insult," Kantor said.

He noted that the majority of anti-Semitic incidents still went unreported, either out of fear of retribution or a lack of interest on the part of local authorities.

Despite the overall drop, anti-Semitism rose in many places globally. In Germany, home to the world's fastest growing Jewish community, there was a rise in anti-Semitic acts from 644 in 2016 to 707 in 2017. Among these were 24 violent cases in 2017, compared to 15 the year before.

Kantor also said that the ascendancy of British Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn led him to believe that "the banality and normalization of Jew-hatred has reached the highest levels."

Critics say Corbyn, a longtime critic of Israel, has long allowed anti-Jewish prejudice to go unchecked. Corbyn's supporters have been accused of sharing Holocaust denial and international Jewish banking conspiracies on social media. On Tuesday, Israel's Labor Party suspended its ties with Corbyn over his party's expressions of anti-Semitism.

The year was also marked by the deadly white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, Virginia — where demonstrators used the Heil Hitler salute, donned swastikas and chanted slogans such as "Jews will not replace us." Far-right parties gained strength following elections in Germany and Austria. U.S. President Donald Trump's December recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel also set off demonstrations that were used as a pretext to attack Jews with anti-Semitic slogans, including calls for murder.

The report cited an audit of the Anti-Defamation League that found anti-Semitic incidents in the United States rose 57 percent in 2017 — the largest single-year increase on record and the second highest number reported since the ADL started tracking such data in 1979. The sharp rise was due in part to a significant increase in incidents in schools and on college campuses, which nearly doubled for the second year in a row.

The rising threat appears to be drawing growing interest.

Israel recently hosted a global forum to address the various ways of combatting anti-Semitism that drew experts from around the world. Israel's Yad Vashem Holocaust memorial says there has been wide participation in its recently launched online course on the origins of anti-Semitism.

[Kizzy]

Thank you, Jet. It's nice to hear that some people appreciate my 'boring diatribes'.

Well seeing as it was removed for some reason why refer to it? that was my opinion, you give yours so freely on my views. :/

[kirklancaster]

Report: Anti-Semitism rises, but violence against Jews falls
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/04/11/report-anti-semitism-rises-but-violence-against-jews-falls.html

Thanks for this Maru.

It is really informative.

[Kazanne]

Why do some people dislike Jews anyway ? I just don't get it:shrug: the ones I have met have always been very gentle, caring people, What do some have against them?

[kirklancaster]

Why do some people dislike Jews anyway ? I just don't get it:shrug: the ones I have met have always been very gentle, caring people, What do some have against them?

I have my own theory on that Kaz.

I think some type of subliminal genetic memory may be in all of us that the Jews are 'God's Chosen People' - a type of unconscious resentment.

Added to this, of course, is the fact that the Jewish people - speaking GENERALLY, of course, 'don't want no shet-storm' to ensue :laugh: - are exceptionally hard-working and throughout history have excelled in business and commerce and other fields.

More recently, of course, is the fact that it seems to bother a LOT of people that from Screen-Writers to Actors through Directors and Producers, Jewish people EXCEL in Hollywood, the film industry and theatre.

Such people accuse Jewish people of CONTROLLING Hollywood etc, but there is a difference in Dominating by Excellence and Controlling.

I really do believe that JEALOUSY in ALL its forms is one of THE biggest hidden causes of trouble at all levels in this sad world.

[bots]

Why do some people dislike Jews anyway ? I just don't get it:shrug: the ones I have met have always been very gentle, caring people, What do some have against them?

i think there are many possible reasons. The most obvious being that they belong to a group that has an identity that others can't be a member of

[kirklancaster]

i think there are many possible reasons. The most obvious being that they belong to a group that has an identity that others can't be a member of

A GREAT point BOTS and one which I did not think about. I believe that it is a prime reason.

[Ammi]

Why do some people dislike Jews anyway ? I just don't get it:shrug: the ones I have met have always been very gentle, caring people, What do some have against them?

...because they make the best chicken soup ..(...apparently../..allegedly etc...)...unless that recipe is shared to all non Jews as well, I have no time for them at all...selfish is what it is...

[Livia]

I've been disgusted by some of the posts on this thread. But maybe I shouldn't be surprised. I was repeatedly abused by a user when I first joined here and nothing was done. There are some posts on here that give me hope, but it's the ones explaining why the Jews have nothing to complain about.

Having just returned from ANOTHER ban some of the comments on here have convinced me that I need a break from here... maybe a very long one. Nothing changes, nothing gets done and the people who get their jollies from being rude and bigoted - and yet accuse others of being bigoted if muslims or travellers are mentioned - are protected. I'm tired of this.

[Brillopad]

I've been disgusted by some of the posts on this thread. But maybe I shouldn't be surprised. I was repeatedly abused by a user when I first joined here and nothing was done. There are some posts on here that give me hope, but it's the ones explaining why the Jews have nothing to complain about.

Having just returned from ANOTHER ban some of the comments on here have convinced me that I need a break from here... maybe a very long one. Nothing changes, nothing gets done and the people who get their jollies from being rude and bigoted - and yet accuse others of being bigoted if muslims or travellers are mentioned - are protected. I'm tired of this.

Many agree with you Liv and are also very tired of it. You are right nothing changes and it is demoralising. A break is good as it clears your head and can rejuvenate you - but I hope you make it a short one as you are a valued member and many will truly miss you.

[bots]

I've been disgusted by some of the posts on this thread. But maybe I shouldn't be surprised. I was repeatedly abused by a user when I first joined here and nothing was done. There are some posts on here that give me hope, but it's the ones explaining why the Jews have nothing to complain about.

Having just returned from ANOTHER ban some of the comments on here have convinced me that I need a break from here... maybe a very long one. Nothing changes, nothing gets done and the people who get their jollies from being rude and bigoted - and yet accuse others of being bigoted if muslims or travellers are mentioned - are protected. I'm tired of this.

i honestly thought things were going to change, but it seems to have been just words to placate until the dust settled

[Brillopad]

i honestly thought things were going to change, but it seems to have been just words to placate until the dust settled

I think many did. The whole handling of it has been patronising and unprofessional. :shrug:

[jaxie]

I've been disgusted by some of the posts on this thread. But maybe I shouldn't be surprised. I was repeatedly abused by a user when I first joined here and nothing was done. There are some posts on here that give me hope, but it's the ones explaining why the Jews have nothing to complain about.

Having just returned from ANOTHER ban some of the comments on here have convinced me that I need a break from here... maybe a very long one. Nothing changes, nothing gets done and the people who get their jollies from being rude and bigoted - and yet accuse others of being bigoted if muslims or travellers are mentioned - are protected. I'm tired of this.

You will be missed Livia. I've never seen anything your posts that deserve any kind of ban. I see far ruder and more aggressive posts get away with it than anything I've ever seen from you.

[Cherie]

What a shame Livia, but I can't say I blame you at all

[lime]

I've been disgusted by some of the posts on this thread. But maybe I shouldn't be surprised. I was repeatedly abused by a user when I first joined here and nothing was done. There are some posts on here that give me hope, but it's the ones explaining why the Jews have nothing to complain about.

Having just returned from ANOTHER ban some of the comments on here have convinced me that I need a break from here... maybe a very long one. Nothing changes, nothing gets done and the people who get their jollies from being rude and bigoted - and yet accuse others of being bigoted if muslims or travellers are mentioned - are protected. I'm tired of this.

Ah feck Livia...Don't go

Your stronger than this

Myself and yourself have varying opions on many subjects...but an honest opinion is a valid opinion :kiss:

[user104658]

I can take a stab at what you were banned for Livia and being fair all I can really say is... If anyone finds their blood-pressure being raised by this place and real anger starting to spill over then it's time to have a rethink or take a step back. And that's not me being high-horsey, it's from very recent personal experience.

[Parmy]

Dont go liv....

[Maru]

I've been disgusted by some of the posts on this thread. But maybe I shouldn't be surprised. I was repeatedly abused by a user when I first joined here and nothing was done. There are some posts on here that give me hope, but it's the ones explaining why the Jews have nothing to complain about.

Having just returned from ANOTHER ban some of the comments on here have convinced me that I need a break from here... maybe a very long one. Nothing changes, nothing gets done and the people who get their jollies from being rude and bigoted - and yet accuse others of being bigoted if muslims or travellers are mentioned - are protected. I'm tired of this.

Livia, I do understand where you are coming from. I don't wish to see you go, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't consider doing the same thing. I think some of your feelings of frustration you've cited here are contagious. For me, it's because I agree with what TS mentioned. We have to find balance and coordinate our thoughts towards more positive (i.e. as in meaningful) things. Not just simply keep reintroducing/reinforcing the same negative thought patterns... I don't think people return here for the drama. The main problem with TiBB atm for me is that because there is such a recycling of drama, that it feels like I'm "risking" my peaceful state of mind every time I leave a post here. Will my words too be misconstrued? Will I too be spat at for those words? The feeling for me is that the trolling has gotten out of hand and that this place has felt too risky at times to share my thoughts and experiences in any sort of meaningful way.

I'm just very saddened we won't have the time to get to know each other better, the way I'd gotten to know some others. You and a handful of others are literally the only reason I return. You are at the top of that list. If you leave or others start leaving, then my "grip" and desire to return to this place is effectively loosened as the only reason I keep continuing at all is because of the people whose thoughts I enjoy reading and conversing with every day on here.

I know I don't spend as much time on here as I'd like, partially for the reasons stated above, but I can't abide you remaining if you yourself are feeling personally targeted and that making you feel so miserable in that way. Again I think that feeling is contagious, as more than a fair few here have already said something is amiss for them. Those concerns are coming from many different ends I think... I think you and others have already expressed your views and had them validated in that respect.

[Kazanne]

Livia,please don't you even think about leaving , some of us DO see the injustice of some of the stuff on here , but don't let people drive you away ,that's what they want, just ignore them ,you are a respected poster on here by many, we can't really afford to lose good posters we have lost so many already, Please reconsider.:bawling:

[Kazanne]

You will be missed Livia. I've never seen anything your posts that deserve any kind of ban. I see far ruder and more aggressive posts get away with it than anything I've ever seen from you.

Aint that the truth:wavey:

[Parmy]

B4 you go remember to forward that msg you recieved.

[chuff me dizzy]

I've been disgusted by some of the posts on this thread. But maybe I shouldn't be surprised. I was repeatedly abused by a user when I first joined here and nothing was done. There are some posts on here that give me hope, but it's the ones explaining why the Jews have nothing to complain about.

Having just returned from ANOTHER ban some of the comments on here have convinced me that I need a break from here... maybe a very long one. Nothing changes, nothing gets done and the people who get their jollies from being rude and bigoted - and yet accuse others of being bigoted if muslims or travellers are mentioned - are protected. I'm tired of this.

Don't you dare walk away, why let the people who target you win ?

[chuff me dizzy]

Livia,please don't you even think about leaving , some of us DO see the injustice of some of the stuff on here , but don't let people drive you away ,that's what they want, just ignore them ,you are a respected poster on here by many, we can't really afford to lose good posters we have lost so many already, Please reconsider.:bawling:

Seconded .... This place needs good people like Livia

[kirklancaster]

I did not know that Liv had been banned again. If anyone knows why could you please PM me?

[Kazanne]

I did not know that Liv had been banned again. If anyone knows why could you please PM me?

Pmd you Kirk.:wavey:

[kirklancaster]

Pmd you Kirk.:wavey:

Thanks, Kaz

[Oliver_W]

Biased moderation is common on any forum tbh. Doesn't make it okay, it's just a shame it could lead to good members leaving.

[Smithy]

People breaking the rules, getting banned and throwing a tantrum storming off? Shocking

[Brillopad]

Biased moderation is common on any forum tbh. Doesn't make it okay, it's just a shame it could lead to good members leaving.

When there is a lack of balance in ‘punishments’ and one group get infracted and banned more than the other - it leads to unbalanced ‘debates’ as one group have to be more aware of what they say than the other. It also gives certain people more ‘courage’ to be key-board warriors knowing that they will likely get away with it.

After a while some people have had enough. It’s hardly a surprise really.

[Brillopad]

People breaking the rules, getting banned and throwing a tantrum storming off? Shocking

You never break the rules of course. :rolleyes:

[Smithy]

You never break the rules of course. :rolleyes:

Nope! Practically perfect in every way, Mary poppins wishes!

[Brillopad]

Nope! Practically perfect in every way, Mary poppins wishes!

Or have a guardian angel - who is definely not perfect!

[user104658]

She lost her cool unprovoked and got a 24h ban, it's hardly an international incident, and she's not the first person it's happened to so I can't really see how it's biased in this case :shrug:.

[Kazanne]

She lost her cool unprovoked and got a 24h ban, it's hardly an international incident, and she's not the first person it's happened to so I can't really see how it's biased in this case :shrug:.

Well some people just like to prod,prod,prod,don't they ?plus 'unprovoked ' ? I don't think so !!!

[user104658]

Well some people just like to prod,prod,prod,don't they ?plus 'unprovoked ' ? I don't think so !!!If she was banned for the comments she made to me; she responded to perfectly civil posts in a conversation she wasn't actually involved in, essentially called me stupid in an aggressive manner, and then also followed it up with another aggressive post...

Its not even that I don't "get it", clearly something I had said in another thread at another time has irritated her (probably multiple threads) but it still doesn't really validate direct personal attacks... Which were certainly unprovoked... Because she was responding to posts that weren't even directed at her and that were totally non-confrontational (more specifically, the posts were about the fact that I try to understand criminals because I find human psychology interesting :shrug: ).

It's not the first time either; Livia has directly attacked me / suggested that I'm "not clever" based on what I do for a living before, too. She has a personal desire to "take me down a peg", I think. And I mean... I don't even particularly care... Like I said on the thread, I'm a big boy and I'm not insecure about my intelligence. I didn't report her, I wouldn't have wanted her banned, I like Livia when she's not mad at me :hee: but personal attacks like that are plainly against the rules so...

[Oliver_W]

You never break the rules of course. :rolleyes:

Smithy's been banned a fair few times to be fair.

[Marsh.]

Livia has directly attacked me / suggested that I'm "not clever" based on what I do for a living before, too

:eek:

I'll be having words on her return. :hmph:

[Smithy]

Smithy's been banned a fair few times to be fair.

Yeah but it gets reveresed bc I’m pretty

[jet]

I've been taking a break from posting for the last few days because I'm sick of the disgraceful posts on this thread in particular trying to dumb down antisemitism and making excuses for it. Now I see that Livia, a Jewish member on here and a well loved one, is thinking of leaving the forum. I hope some are proud of themselves for being the watch dogs of any anti - Muslim sentiments of even the mildest kind while trying to justify and even denying antisemitism....
and beyond this as to the other general problems brought up recently - as bitontheside has pointed out, nothing has changed and its just business as usual.
fk this.

[Kazanne]

I've been taking a break from posting for the last few days because I'm sick of the disgraceful posts on this thread in particular trying to dumb down antisemitism and making excuses for it. Now I see that Livia, a Jewish member on here and a well loved one, is thinking of leaving the forum. I hope some are proud of themselves for being the watch dogs of any anti - Muslim sentiments of even the mildest kind while trying to justify and even denying antisemitism....
and beyond this as to the other general problems brought up recently - as bitontheside has pointed out, nothing has changed and its just business as usual.
fk this.

I'm agreeing on this.it's not nice here anymore,but don't give up Jet it's what some want,I hate to see certain people picked out for different treatment,why can't the running of this site just be fair and impartial,carries on like it is there will be no forum to run, well not an adult one anyway,you're a good member Jet,just stay.

[user104658]

I've been taking a break from posting for the last few days because I'm sick of the disgraceful posts on this thread in particular trying to dumb down antisemitism and making excuses for it. Now I see that Livia, a Jewish member on here and a well loved one, is thinking of leaving the forum. I hope some are proud of themselves for being the watch dogs of any anti - Muslim sentiments of even the mildest kind while trying to justify and even denying antisemitism....
and beyond this as to the other general problems brought up recently - as bitontheside has pointed out, nothing has changed and its just business as usual.
fk this.The issue wasn't on this thread.

[Kizzy]

What a joke this thread has become... I have no clue why people are whipping themselves into a frenzy suggesting that there has been some kind of 'allowance' made for antisemitism because islamophobia exists!

Personally I think this is ridiculous, PERSONALLY I find any and all prejudice wrong and should be addressed.
Do I feel the labour leader should fall on his sword? No.
If this were the route then there should be a similar fate for others who fail in their duty to curtail prejudice in their respective parties.

I also refuse to categorise marginalised groups into least to most deserving of support. I don't have 'favourite' causes... ALL those who make abusive comments to any group should be dealt with proportionally.

[user104658]

PERSONALLY I find any and all prejudice wrong and should be addressed.
Do I feel the labour leader should fall on his sword? No.
If this were the route then there should be a similar fate for others who fail in their duty to curtail prejudice in their respective parties.

I also refuse to categorise marginalised groups into least to most deserving of support. I don't have 'favourite' causes... ALL those who make abusive comments to any group should be dealt with proportionally.

Indeed, the forum rules thread states quite clearly;



i) Staff members on the forum have the right to delete, modify or change the content of any post at any time for any reason without notification to anyone. They can also ban or restrict forum members for any reason at anytime. If a moderator edits your post on the forum do not remove the edits. Do not post offensive material. Racism/homophobia/xenophobia/discrimination of any sort won't be tolerated.

... But the same people who have been arguing for literally YEARS that this should not be the case, that everyone is entitled to their own opinion no matter what, that no one should have to "walk on eggshells", etc. are now up in arms because this time it's an issue that they feel should be protected?

The idea that anyone has displayed any serious anti-Semitism on this thread is sort of ludicrous. I mean... I'm not sure but... I think on the other thread I was being accused of being somehow anti-Jewish for light-heartedly pointing out (my opinion that) God doesn't exist :think:. Is atheism now tantamount to anti-Semitism?

[Kizzy]

I suppose the main difference is that Islamic terrorists are waging war on the West, killing innocents, wanting to drag us all back to the dark ages. Check out all the top ten lists of most wanted terrorists and tell me what they all have in common. And we ALL understand that Muslims are generally peaceful... Islamists and Jihadists though, they're terrorists.

Jewish people haven't waged war on anyone, and yet here we are, in 2018, having to accept the usual sickening racism because we're only Jews.

Anti-Semitism is more and more accepted. And when supporters of a major political party ignore a protest by ordinary, moderate Jews, with no axe to grind, I shouldn't be surprised at all the comments on here in support of Corbyn and his party.

Aside from the whole antisemetism issue, (which again I agree requires addressing adequately) can I say this is odd .. as a westerner to hear this 'dark ages' thing, as I thought the whole Jerusalem issue was due to it once being a homeland literally in the dark ages?

It can't be disputed that in that place there is effectively a war going on, and it has a very distinct religious element to it.

[Brillopad]

Indeed, the forum rules thread states quite clearly;



... But the same people who have been arguing for literally YEARS that this should not be the case, that everyone is entitled to their own opinion no matter what, that no one should have to "walk on eggshells", etc. are now up in arms because this time it's an issue that they feel should be protected?

The idea that anyone has displayed any serious anti-Semitism on this thread is sort of ludicrous. I mean... I'm not sure but... I think on the other thread I was being accused of being somehow anti-Jewish for light-heartedly pointing out (my opinion that) God doesn't exist :think:. Is atheism now tantamount to anti-Semitism?

Rather telling I think that they clearly prioritise the first three whilst adding ‘any discrimination will not be tolertated” as a second thought. The site focuses on those three whilst things like sexism, affecting 50% of the world population, is taken a lot less seriously as is ageism.

The treatment of all the isms is unbalanced on here with the majority on here preoccupied with racism and transphobia whilst at the same time blatantly being sexist and ageist. The blatant double standards are pretty sickening.

[user104658]

The treatment of all the isms is unbalanced on here with the majority on here preoccupied with racism and transphobia whilst at the same time blatantly being sexist and ageist. The blatant double standards are pretty sickening.

I agree Brillo but only with the caveat that I think both of the things you mention are across the board; there is sexism against women AND men on here, and there is ageism against the old AND the young. And none of it is taken very seriously, although sexism against females is taken the most seriously (Truth's permanent ban is evidence of that).

Taking the trans issue as an example; the main reason it irks me so much isn't really any transphobia or trans rights issue. It's the fact that the entire discussion is infused with misandry and outright androphobia. It took some self reflection to realise that.

[bots]

We can gaze at our navels until the cows come home. The admin and moderators are aware of the issues, we even heard proposals for how it was going to be addressed. It's for them to step up and do something about it

[Cherie]

We can gaze at our navels until the cows come home. The admin and moderators are aware of the issues, we even heard proposals for how it was going to be addressed. It's for them to step up and do something about it

indeed.

[Cherie]

Indeed, the forum rules thread states quite clearly;



... But the same people who have been arguing for literally YEARS that this should not be the case, that everyone is entitled to their own opinion no matter what, that no one should have to "walk on eggshells", etc. are now up in arms because this time it's an issue that they feel should be protected?

The idea that anyone has displayed any serious anti-Semitism on this thread is sort of ludicrous. I mean... I'm not sure but... I think on the other thread I was being accused of being somehow anti-Jewish for light-heartedly pointing out (my opinion that) God doesn't exist :think:. Is atheism now tantamount to anti-Semitism?

That is not the issue at all, no one wants protection, but if there is protection it should be fairly applied, not dished out based on personal leanings.

I didn't see the other post you are referring to but I guess it's all about the context of the thread

[user104658]

We can gaze at our navels until the cows come home. The admin and moderators are aware of the issues, we even heard proposals for how it was going to be addressed. It's for them to step up and do something about itDid we hear? I must have missed it. All I saw was the mods going secret squirrel by making their names the same colour and removing all indication that they are mods, yet still retaining mod powers... Which has to be one of the worst ideas I've ever seen in nearly 20 years as a regular on various forums :joker:.

[Kazanne]

Maybe they think it might go away, but it wont,maybe an older mod thrown into the mix might help who can empathise with the older members and understand some of the grievances as I see it at the minute they see us a few moaning minnies who think we are treated unfairly,that is not quite right, some ARE treated unfairly imo , but also some are allowed to get away with far more than others ,that is a BIG problem and if a mod or admin cannot see that, well that makes me question how they got their position, I am still hopeful the problems are being sorted in the towers.

[user104658]

That is not the issue at all, no one wants protection, but if there is protection it should be fairly applied, not dished out based on personal leanings.

100% agree there tbf.

[Brillopad]

I agree Brillo but only with the caveat that I think both of the things you mention are across the board; there is sexism against women AND men on here, and there is ageism against the old AND the young. And none of it is taken very seriously, although sexism against females is taken the most seriously (Truth's permanent ban is evidence of that).

Taking the trans issue as an example; the main reason it irks me so much isn't really any transphobia or trans rights issue. It's the fact that the entire discussion is infused with misandry and outright androphobia. It took some self reflection to realise that.

Probably - but I do feel that negative comments on men and the young tend to be reactionary. It is a natural response - if you constantly observe the young making ageist comments you will respond with negative comments relating to their youth and inexperience.

The same with men - when you see so much rampant sexism towards women on here people will sometimes respond with like. I am not saying it is ok just that I can understand the psychology behind it as I have done it myself. Sexism on here is better than it used to be but it still occurs too often - all the more frustrating when so many on here are obsessed with racism and transphobia. I don’t feel there is a real fear or hatred of the majority of men, other than the blatant sexist ones and predators out there, with seemingly many of them opportunistic - but most negative responses are a reaction to historical and current attitudes towards women by seemingly many men.

What equally annoys me is that the moderation is often as such that if someone responds to a sexist comment with an equally derogatory comment it often appears that they are the ones that get infracted/banned when the person that started it doesn’t.

Of course the mods will deny this but as it is such a closed and secretative system it is open to abuse by less scrupulous and biased mods. If they can publicly list who has been banned and for how long why can they not say for what. Infractions are even more secretive and any discrepancy almost impossible to prove.

[user104658]

The same with men - when you see so much rampant sexism towards women on here people will sometimes respond with like. I am not saying it is ok just that I can understand the psychology behind it as I have done it myself.

I actually agree with that and I think that's basically the case everywhere at the moment, especially social media / online. Women HAVE been on the back foot for most of history and now are feeling empowered (which is a great thing) and so maybe an element of backlash/anger, that might seem like misandry, was always going to happen in the short term and there's always going to be "collateral damage". Like you say it doesn't make it OK but the psychology is understandable.

On a positive note, maybe the fact that it's happening does mean that real equality isn't too far off, and things will settle down into a more equal society :shrug:.

Worldwide that is. Not on here, TiBB is a lost cause :umm2:

[Maru]

Should TiBB have a zero tolerance policy though? Because if fully enforced, this site would be seriously locked down in terms of what we would be able to say and do. I would think.

Anyway I have a lot of respect for a fair few members on here and just hope it is all resolved peacefully.

I actually agree with that and I think that's basically the case everywhere at the moment, especially social media / online. Women HAVE been on the back foot for most of history and now are feeling empowered (which is a great thing) and so maybe an element of backlash/anger, that might seem like misandry, was always going to happen in the short term and there's always going to be "collateral damage". Like you say it doesn't make it OK but the psychology is understandable.

On a positive note, maybe the fact that it's happening does mean that real equality isn't too far off, and things will settle down into a more equal society :shrug:.

Worldwide that is. Not on here, TiBB is a lost cause :umm2:

TS, here's an intellectually masturbate-y video to fit with that view (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyggRvJUOxQ). :laugh: I saw this a few months back and your comment reminded me of it...

As for my collective rage, I can summon mine at will... :hee::devil:

[Brillopad]

Did we hear? I must have missed it. All I saw was the mods going secret squirrel by making their names the same colour and removing all indication that they are mods, yet still retaining mod powers... Which has to be one of the worst ideas I've ever seen in nearly 20 years as a regular on various forums :joker:.

Completely agree. Totally patronising gumph!

[Vicky.]

The name change thing wasn't our idea. And that was not meant to be all either but James has been very busy.

Staying out of this this time, besides pointing out that.

[Parmy]

We can gaze at our navels until the cows come home. The admin and moderators are aware of the issues, we even heard proposals for how it was going to be addressed. It's for them to step up and do something about it


Dont hold your breath..time to revolt.

[user104658]

The name change thing wasn't our idea. And that was not meant to be all either but James has been very busy.

Staying out of this this time, besides pointing out that.Well not to keep the thread way off topic but... On the Tapatalk app, mods still have what appears to be a picture of a tiny king(?) next to their usernames, which is for some reason really tickling my pickle :joker:.

Even admin has no power over the mighty Tapatalk.

[Livia]

If she was banned for the comments she made to me; she responded to perfectly civil posts in a conversation she wasn't actually involved in, essentially called me stupid in an aggressive manner, and then also followed it up with another aggressive post...

Its not even that I don't "get it", clearly something I had said in another thread at another time has irritated her (probably multiple threads) but it still doesn't really validate direct personal attacks... Which were certainly unprovoked... Because she was responding to posts that weren't even directed at her and that were totally non-confrontational (more specifically, the posts were about the fact that I try to understand criminals because I find human psychology interesting :shrug: ).

It's not the first time either; Livia has directly attacked me / suggested that I'm "not clever" based on what I do for a living before, too. She has a personal desire to "take me down a peg", I think. And I mean... I don't even particularly care... Like I said on the thread, I'm a big boy and I'm not insecure about my intelligence. I didn't report her, I wouldn't have wanted her banned, I like Livia when she's not mad at me :hee: but personal attacks like that are plainly against the rules so...

First Dezzy discusses my bans and infractions quite openly on the forum while I'm not here. And now... TS has done the same. No infraction, I bet, despite the fact that I came on here last night and asked for TS’s post to be removed and gave the reasons why. But no, it remains. There have either been no mods on at all, or one.

We all thought something was going to change for a minute there didn’t we, that all of us who come here every day, click the stupid advert, support the place, may get a positive reaction to what is a serious problem on this forum… but no. We’ve been ignored… and the unsustainable madness continues.

I am taking a break, but I will be back. I want to see if anything’s changed. I'm not holding my breath.

And just for the record, because I’d hate Marshy to be mad at me… and because TS has brought it up himself in this thread so can hardly object to me responding. My comment about TS’s being stupid because of the job he does… He had been busy mansplaining about how his opinion was exact and I saying how I should “think about it” and how “It’s quite simple Livia…” you know how he goes. And I said “Yes TS, we all know that. You don’t have to work in a bookies to know”. It was a response to his often smug, patronising responses. Similarly in my latest post that took me into a ban, I said “I know you think there is no room for error in any of your opinions, but let me tell you... you are not THAT clever. Everyone on here can understand the grey areas, it's not just you”.

I’m not reading any more of Kizzy’s poison, or DR’s frantic nonsense, and now TS is on the list too. Sad… we got on okay most of the time, if a little scratchy when he patronised me and I respond, but we had a mutual respect, I think. Of course that’s before he imagined this was all about him and took the huge liberty of discussing me and my infractions here.

I feel quite justified in this post, let’s see how long it stays, or when the infraction lands.

And finally, yes, I’ve lately had a huge issue with this thread, and I have been shocked and quite disgusted at some of the comments. (TS said it wasn’t about this thread, it is… he doesn’t speak for me, ever). For the record, no one can tell me when to feel aggrieved. It’s not anyone else’s call.

[Livia]

The name change thing wasn't our idea. And that was not meant to be all either but James has been very busy.

Staying out of this this time, besides pointing out that.

We're ALL very busy, Vicky, James has a responsibility.

[Brillopad]

We're ALL very busy, Vicky, James has a responsibility.

I second that Liv!

[Brillopad]

First Dezzy discusses my bans and infractions quite openly on the forum while I'm not here. And now... TS has done the same. No infraction, I bet, despite the fact that I came on here last night and asked for TS’s post to be removed and gave the reasons why. But no, it remains. There have either been no mods on at all, or one.

We all thought something was going to change for a minute there didn’t we, that all of us who come here every day, click the stupid advert, support the place, may get a positive reaction to what is a serious problem on this forum… but no. We’ve been ignored… and the unsustainable madness continues.

I am taking a break, but I will be back. I want to see if anything’s changed. I'm not holding my breath.

And just for the record, because I’d hate Marshy to be mad at me… and because TS has brought it up himself in this thread so can hardly object to me responding. My comment about TS’s being stupid because of the job he does… He had been busy mansplaining about how his opinion was exact and I saying how I should “think about it” and how “It’s quite simple Livia…” you know how he goes. And I said “Yes TS, we all know that. You don’t have to work in a bookies to know”. It was a response to his often smug, patronising responses. Similarly in my latest post that took me into a ban, I said “I know you think there is no room for error in any of your opinions, but let me tell you... you are not THAT clever. Everyone on here can understand the grey areas, it's not just you”.

I’m not reading any more of Kizzy’s poison, or DR’s frantic nonsense, and now TS is on the list too. Sad… we got on okay most of the time, if a little scratchy when he patronised me and I respond, but we had a mutual respect, I think. Of course that’s before he imagined this was all about him and took the huge liberty of discussing me and my infractions here.

I feel quite justified in this post, let’s see how long it stays, or when the infraction lands.

And finally, yes, I’ve lately had a huge issue with this thread, and I have been shocked and quite disgusted at some of the comments. (TS said it wasn’t about this thread, it is… he doesn’t speak for me, ever). For the record, no one can tell me when to feel aggrieved. It’s not anyone else’s call.

The whole thing clearly got blown out of all proportion as is usual on here. Personally I believe there was more behind the ban (about a dozen of us or so know what I mean) than any comments you made in your posts that pale into insignificance to many on here and were reactionary. Same ol, same ol!

Take care Liv. I may see you when you come back, but then again I may not if you get my meaning. :bawling:

[Marsh.]

Bloody Livia!!! :nono:

Welcome to the Frequent Ban Club!

A free balloon and a bottle of your favourite beverage for new members.

[Parmy]

Bloody Livia!!! :nono:

Welcome to the Frequent Ban Club!

A free balloon and a bottle of your favourite beverage for new members.

And 15 minutes in the cupboard with its eldest member.:shrug:

[Parmy]

James needs to grow a pair and do the right thing.

[chuff me dizzy]

First Dezzy discusses my bans and infractions quite openly on the forum while I'm not here. And now... TS has done the same. No infraction, I bet, despite the fact that I came on here last night and asked for TS’s post to be removed and gave the reasons why. But no, it remains. There have either been no mods on at all, or one.

We all thought something was going to change for a minute there didn’t we, that all of us who come here every day, click the stupid advert, support the place, may get a positive reaction to what is a serious problem on this forum… but no. We’ve been ignored… and the unsustainable madness continues.

I am taking a break, but I will be back. I want to see if anything’s changed. I'm not holding my breath.

And just for the record, because I’d hate Marshy to be mad at me… and because TS has brought it up himself in this thread so can hardly object to me responding. My comment about TS’s being stupid because of the job he does… He had been busy mansplaining about how his opinion was exact and I saying how I should “think about it” and how “It’s quite simple Livia…” you know how he goes. And I said “Yes TS, we all know that. You don’t have to work in a bookies to know”. It was a response to his often smug, patronising responses. Similarly in my latest post that took me into a ban, I said “I know you think there is no room for error in any of your opinions, but let me tell you... you are not THAT clever. Everyone on here can understand the grey areas, it's not just you”.

I’m not reading any more of Kizzy’s poison, or DR’s frantic nonsense, and now TS is on the list too. Sad… we got on okay most of the time, if a little scratchy when he patronised me and I respond, but we had a mutual respect, I think. Of course that’s before he imagined this was all about him and took the huge liberty of discussing me and my infractions here.

I feel quite justified in this post, let’s see how long it stays, or when the infraction lands.

And finally, yes, I’ve lately had a huge issue with this thread, and I have been shocked and quite disgusted at some of the comments. (TS said it wasn’t about this thread, it is… he doesn’t speak for me, ever). For the record, no one can tell me when to feel aggrieved. It’s not anyone else’s call.

Promise you will come back Livia, don't get pushed off here like lots of others have been ,how on earth did TS get away with making these assumptions about you and putting words into your mouth and even going as far as deciding what you were thinking ? Oh yes Ive just realised why, the same reason lots of other gang members get away with stuff ,they have a mod in their pocket !!

[jet]

First Dezzy discusses my bans and infractions quite openly on the forum while I'm not here. And now... TS has done the same. No infraction, I bet, despite the fact that I came on here last night and asked for TS’s post to be removed and gave the reasons why. But no, it remains. There have either been no mods on at all, or one.

We all thought something was going to change for a minute there didn’t we, that all of us who come here every day, click the stupid advert, support the place, may get a positive reaction to what is a serious problem on this forum… but no. We’ve been ignored… and the unsustainable madness continues.

I am taking a break, but I will be back. I want to see if anything’s changed. I'm not holding my breath.

And just for the record, because I’d hate Marshy to be mad at me… and because TS has brought it up himself in this thread so can hardly object to me responding. My comment about TS’s being stupid because of the job he does… He had been busy mansplaining about how his opinion was exact and I saying how I should “think about it” and how “It’s quite simple Livia…” you know how he goes. And I said “Yes TS, we all know that. You don’t have to work in a bookies to know”. It was a response to his often smug, patronising responses. Similarly in my latest post that took me into a ban, I said “I know you think there is no room for error in any of your opinions, but let me tell you... you are not THAT clever. Everyone on here can understand the grey areas, it's not just you”.

I’m not reading any more of Kizzy’s poison, or DR’s frantic nonsense, and now TS is on the list too. Sad… we got on okay most of the time, if a little scratchy when he patronised me and I respond, but we had a mutual respect, I think. Of course that’s before he imagined this was all about him and took the huge liberty of discussing me and my infractions here.

I feel quite justified in this post, let’s see how long it stays, or when the infraction lands.

And finally, yes, I’ve lately had a huge issue with this thread, and I have been shocked and quite disgusted at some of the comments. (TS said it wasn’t about this thread, it is… he doesn’t speak for me, ever). For the record, no one can tell me when to feel aggrieved. It’s not anyone else’s call.

Livia, I am totally with you on this one. The disgust at some posts on this thread and the failure to resolve any of the problems in general are just too much to shrug off and carry on. Who needs it? I'm taking a break myself. But I hope there are changes and you come back soon Livia, you are at the heart of SD. :love:

[chuff me dizzy]

James needs to grow a pair and do the right thing.

He sure does Parmy ,Im sick of having IMPORTANT messages ignored, if he's " too busy" he should hand the reins over to someone not so busy as they have to ignore several members complaints and requests

[chuff me dizzy]

i honestly thought things were going to change, but it seems to have been just words to placate until the dust settled

Its up to us to make sure the dust doesn't settle and get brushed under the carpet

[user104658]

I can accept that you find me patronising Livia, I can be patronising and I am generally quite sure of myself (though I don't think my opinions are "exact" at all, and try to take many opinions on board from many varieties of member). It still doesn't really justify direct personal attacks, in my opinion.

Discussing infractions... :shrug: I'm not a mod so I'm not really inclined to avoid discussing them. I don't mind if the posts are removed though.

Other than that all I can really say is that I have zero interest in any sort of ongoing "feud", I honestly DO understand getting frustrated with this place, but when it comes down to it (no offense intended to staff) it's really just not worth it?

[Parmy]

He sure does Parmy ,Im sick of having IMPORTANT messages ignored, if he's " too busy" he should hand the reins over to someone not so busy as they have to ignore several members complaints and requests

I know a mod who does bugger all half the time
:hee:

[Marsh.]

And 15 minutes in the cupboard with its eldest member.:shrug:LT doesn't let anybody else in.

[user104658]

Promise you will come back Livia, don't get pushed off here like lots of others have been ,how on earth did TS get away with making these assumptions about you and putting words into your mouth and even going as far as deciding what you were thinking ? Oh yes Ive just realised why, the same reason lots of other gang members get away with stuff ,they have a mod in their pocket !!I've done nothing but piss mods off lately and had a 24h ban less than a month ago, chuff.

[chuff me dizzy]

I've done nothing but piss mods off lately and had a 24h ban less than a month ago, chuff.

Your mate must have gone out for the night when you received your ban :idc:

[user104658]

Your mate must have gone out for the night when you received your ban :idc:Or the mod bias (which I still believe exists and has existed, and spent several threads pointing out a few weeks back) has far more to do with the topics being discussed, than which members are discussing it.

Any "mod bias" that worked in my favour, if there was any, evaporated as soon as I was on "the wrong side of the discussion". Likewise, members who usually express feeling targeted fall under the protective bubble as soon as their views align with mods. :shrug:

Prime example; Brillo is "at risk" when discussing Islam, but "safe" when discussing feminist issues.

[chuff me dizzy]

Or the mod bias (which I still believe exists and has existed, and spent several threads pointing out a few weeks back) has far more to do with the topics being discussed, than which members are discussing it.

Any "mod bias" that worked in my favour, if there was any, evaporated as soon as I was on "the wrong side of the discussion". Likewise, members who usually express feeling targeted fall under the protective bubble as soon as their views align with mods. :shrug:

Prime example; Brillo is "at risk" when discussing Islam, but "safe" when discussing feminist issues.

Why bring Brillo into things ?

[Smithy]

Well I think it’s safe to say this thread has gone off topic :hee:

[Niamh.]

Or the mod bias (which I still believe exists and has existed, and spent several threads pointing out a few weeks back) has far more to do with the topics being discussed, than which members are discussing it.

Any "mod bias" that worked in my favour, if there was any, evaporated as soon as I was on "the wrong side of the discussion". Likewise, members who usually express feeling targeted fall under the protective bubble as soon as their views align with mods. :shrug:

Prime example; Brillo is "at risk" when discussing Islam, but "safe" when discussing feminist issues.

:conf2:

Didn't realise that it should be "unsafe" to discuss feminist issues but whatever.

Sick to death of this place myself

[Brillopad]

Well I think it’s safe to say this thread has gone off topic :hee:

Going to try to get it closed down now then. No doubt it will get back on topic if people don’t try to shut down threads not to their liking. :shrug::shrug:

[chuff me dizzy]

Going to try to get it closed down now then. No doubt it will get back on topic if people don’t try to shut down threads not to their liking. :shrug::shrug:

:clap1:

[user104658]

Why bring Brillo into things ?It wasn't even in a negative way? Stop looking for fights :nono:

[chuff me dizzy]

It wasn't even in a negative way? Stop looking for fights :nono:

Im far from looking for fights, Im trying to stop them !

[Marsh.]

He sure does Parmy ,Im sick of having IMPORTANT messages ignored, if he's " too busy" he should hand the reins over to someone not so busy as they have to ignore several members complaints and requestsJames doesn't have to adhere to any "requests".

[user104658]

:conf2:

Didn't realise that it should be "unsafe" to discuss feminist issues but whatever.


My point is more that you can get away with more in terms of baiting / personal comments if you're on the "right side" of a discussion... And that has always been the case. Historically I've generally been on the right side; I ventured into the "wrong" side on trans and boy did I feel it :umm2:.

Tbh this comment itself kind of demonstrates my point; mentioning feminism at all as an example is "risky business".

[user104658]

James doesn't have to adhere to any "requests".He is the law?

[Marsh.]

Going to try to get it closed down now then. No doubt it will get back on topic if people don’t try to shut down threads not to their liking. :shrug::shrug:A thread titled anti-Semitic becoming about everything but that isn't really about whether or not it's to Smithy's liking. [emoji23]

SD only really needs one thread nowadays because they're all on the same topic now anyway "Forum Members /Infraction System"

[Niamh.]

My point is more that you can get away with more in terms of baiting / personal comments if you're on the "right side" of a discussion... And that has always been the case. Historically I've generally been on the right side; I ventured into the "wrong" side on trans and boy did I feel it :umm2:.

Tbh this comment itself kind of demonstrates my point; mentioning feminism at all as an example is "risky business".

Oh be careful you might be banned for just saying feminism :shocked:

I really want James to de mod me, I'm sick of listening to this s**t

[Brillopad]

A thread titled anti-Semitic becoming about everything but that isn't really about whether or not it's to Smithy's liking. [emoji23]

SD only really needs one thread nowadays because they're all on the same topic now anyway "Forum Members /Infraction System"

A lot of the thread has been discussing things related to antisemitisum - I have rarely seen any topic stay completely on topic.

[Parmy]

Oh be careful you might be banned for just saying feminism :shocked:

I really want James to de mod me, I'm sick of listening to this s**t

You make it sound like you're trapped in a cult fgs...are you saying you cant just throw the towel in?

Bloody power must have gone to your head:shrug:

[Niamh.]

You make it sound like you're trapped in a cult fgs...are you saying you cant just throw the towel in?

Bloody power must have gone to your head:shrug:

I have asked him several times over the last few weeks to de mod me and he hasn't but whatever I'm sure you know best. I'm not doing anymore moderating anyway :shrug:

[Marsh.]

He is the law?:joker:

[Parmy]

I have asked him several times over the last few weeks to de mod me and he hasn't but whatever I'm sure you know best. I'm not doing anymore moderating anyway :shrug:

Well i may not know best but i know hes busy...vicky told us.

[Niamh.]

Well i may not know best but i know hes busy...vicky told us.

super

[chuff me dizzy]

James doesn't have to adhere to any "requests".

Why doesn't he ? and an acknowledgement costs nothing, its manners

[Parmy]

super

Thats a bit baity..

[chuff me dizzy]

I have asked him several times over the last few weeks to de mod me and he hasn't but whatever I'm sure you know best. I'm not doing anymore moderating anyway :shrug:

Don't you pack in you're one of the fair mods ,someone you can approach

[Niamh.]

Thats a bit baity..

How so?, not sure how you expected me to respond to your totally not baity at all comment

[Niamh.]

Don't you pack in you're one of the fair mods ,someone you can approach

Unless you mention feminism apparently.

[Parmy]

How so?, not sure how you expected me to respond to your totally not baity at all comment

My totally not baity comment was in response to your totally baity comment "you would know best"

[chuff me dizzy]

Unless you mention feminism apparently.

Take no gorm as we say in Gods county

[Niamh.]

My totally not baity comment was in response to your totally baity comment "you would know best"

Yeah sorry about that Power must have gone to my head...........oop sorry was that baity too?

[bots]

I have asked him several times over the last few weeks to de mod me and he hasn't but whatever I'm sure you know best. I'm not doing anymore moderating anyway :shrug:

Sad to hear that Niamh as you are overwhelmingly a positive influence on this forum.

[Vicky.]

You make it sound like you're trapped in a cult fgs...are you saying you cant just throw the towel in?

Bloody power must have gone to your head:shrug:

Problem with this is, yes you can just throw the towel in, but you would realistically have to leave the forum. I have also asked to be de-modded and am currently not doing any moderation at all. I don't want to leave, but I also don't want to have to deal with this all the time.

[Parmy]

Problem with this is, yes you can just throw the towel in, but you would realistically have to leave the forum. I have also asked to be de-modded and am currently not doing any moderation at all. I don't want to leave, but I also don't want to have to deal with this all the time.

Why do you feel like you would have to leave the forum?

Everyone loves you.

[chuff me dizzy]

Problem with this is, yes you can just throw the towel in, but you would realistically have to leave the forum. I have also asked to be de-modded and am currently not doing any moderation at all. I don't want to leave, but I also don't want to have to deal with this all the time.

So if yourself and Niamh are not modding, who's handing out infractions hand over fist to "certain members" that narrows it down does'nt it :whistle:

[MTVN]

There have hardly been any infractions given in the last week, this thread itself has received next to no moderation but it's still ended up on the same old topic. Its like complaining about the moderation has become a favourite past time on here once the actual topic gets tired

Ah I posted this before I saw the thread was closed

[Tom4784]

Yeah, I was looking over this thread since we're getting reports about it but I'm not even sure where to start so I think it's best to just keep it locked. It doesn't look like the subject of the thread has been discussed for a while.