Survivor 39: Island of the Idols

[Macie Lightfoot]

"WE CAN PUT A WRECKING BALL TO SOMEBODY ELSE'S HEAD MAYBE...... SO LET'S GO!" --Karishma Patel, 2019

[Macie Lightfoot]

"I am, in a way, the Karishma!!!"

*camera pans to Karishma*

[Macie Lightfoot]

Dean mentioning DAN AND TOMMY and THE UNDERLINGS he's such an ass

[Macie Lightfoot]

RETICULAR ACTIVATING SYSTEM

BLUE BLUE BLUE

x

[Macie Lightfoot]

Another episode, another boring endurance IC :rolleyes:

[Macie Lightfoot]

lmfao yup Dean SUCKS **** him

[Macie Lightfoot]

IT'S TEACHING TIME WITH TOMMY oh please for ****'s sake make it stop

[Macie Lightfoot]

GARBAGE omg I hate all of these ****ing assholes I am FURIOUS **** Dean **** Tommy **** DAN **** all of them

[Macie Lightfoot]

Dean choosing to suck Tommy's dick JUST to get out a woman is the most ****ing pathetic **** ever. Like even more pathetic than Laurel or any of the Ghost Island cast.

[MB.]

Noura getting an emotional, uplifting confessional about someone else's idol find :love:

[MB.]

also yup this season is still hot garbage

[Matthew.]

Karishma has broken Laura Morett’s record for most votes cast against somebody in a single season, with 22 votes :love:

[Jigs]

This episode was sooooo exciting yet so anticlimactic by the end of it uGH

I can't believe King Dean fuucked everything!!!!!!

Karishma </3

[Jigs]

"I am, in a way, the Karishma!!!"

*camera pans to Karishma*

I died at this

"I am, in a way, the Karishma, except I'm not annoying to be around, I uplift people" and so on, and so forth...

Karishma's unamused face <3

[Wizard.]

Omg why did Dean go and ruin the season! It's inevitable Tommy's winning urgh

[Wizard.]

At least Noura didn't go I was scared for a second there. "Thank God" when Karishma got eliminated :joker: Also don't think Tommy will get rid of Lauren.

[Wojtek]

I like Dean but he's sooo stupid... He just gave Tommy one million dollars :notimpressed:

[Macie Lightfoot]

I can't with the ~King Dean~ and "he ruined the season BUT he's still funneh" like no he's ****ing not???? He was funny for like a hot second in episodes 3 and 4 but ever since the tribe swap he's been boring, smugly delusional, eager to kick women when they're down, has shown zero sense of self-awareness in the least entertaining way, and has never passed up an opportunity to help a dude bro and turn on a woman. He somehow thinks HE is a threat because he is "athletic" even though he is embarrassingly bad at Challenges. He calls himself, Tommy, and Elizabeth threats and Karishma and Noura goats. He acts like Tommy and Dan are worthy power players and opposed to THE UNDERLINGS. He didn't give Kellee any sort of indication that she was in danger after she gave him an Idol and saved his ass but he completely bailed Tommy out because he sees another white dude and thinks he's worth saving.

HE SUCKS and we need to stop kidding ourselves just because he's good-looking.

[JerseyWins]

Ah great timing. Came in here to say how much Dean shined in that episode :joker:

Noura was the focal shining but Dean cracked me up with his takes & how he just completely threw the entire plan & Noura under the bus within seconds at TC lmfao

Not to mention Karishma going instead of Tommy (or Noura)? Yes please and thank you! (btw Karishma going was super obvious though, I had no doubt in my mind the entire TC and really the second half of the episode but I'm not complaining when the episode and TC/result were all excellent :clap1:)

[Macie Lightfoot]

Was Tribal Council even good? Like the whole "ItS a LiVe tRiBAL!!!!!" thing is so ****ing overblown and trite that it's past the point of parody now. It's just stupid whispers on top of stupid whispers and you can't even keep track of what's about to happen (not that a Karishma boot wasn't predictable, but the narrative was filled with holes) and it actually kind of ruins the whole purpose of Tribal Council? There used to be some skill and craft when it came to answering questions that Jeff would throw at you, trying to word your answers in a way that sends one message to your allies and hides your true intentions from your enemies. Everyone heard everything, including the audience. Now it's just people frantically running around the set whispering inaudibles into each other's ears and then the votes happen with no explanation as to how anyone settled on that result.

Also, "teaching time with Tommy" might be a bottom one phrase every uttered on this planet earth.

[JerseyWins]

That reminds me... there was really a lot to this episode in terms of memorability and even little quotes and stuff.

- Nouramal
- Teaching Time with Tommy #TTWT (good catchy line actually and kinda defining moment if he does indeed win)
- A couple of "redneck" type quotes from Elaine that were funny
- Noura saying to Karishma that she's just like her except actually likable, good to be around, etc. etc. ffs :joker: - Her rant in general
- Dean saying to Noura's face that she's the one he's worried about with the plan
- Dean spilling the beans immediately to Tommy during TC and creating whispers --- to me this was better than the typical Live TC, I don't care a ton for them in general but some can be good and this may have been the best one to date because it legit felt so live like a domino effect after a plan that could've actually went through was totally revealed to everyone
- A lot of frantic behavior from almost everyone both before & during TC made for a fun atmosphere from start to finish

An episode with multiple memorable moments and phrases if you ask me :clap1:

[JerseyWins]

Oh and this was a family visit episode. Those honestly usually suck outside of a couple funny/emotional confessionals or maybe when someone flips out for not going on the family reward ---- but rarely is it to this extent lolol

[Joe.]

Wow. Dean probably made the stupidest move ever?

[MB.]

An episode with multiple memorable moments and phrases if you ask me :clap1:

To be honest, I think the bar for a good Survivor episode ought to be a little higher than "it had moments and phrases"

[Jigs]

How could I forget Nouramal :love:

[JerseyWins]

To be honest, I think the bar for a good Survivor episode ought to be a little higher than "it had moments and phrases"
Lol memorable was the key there

It wasn't just some Nouramal moments and phrases :dazzler:

[JerseyWins]

ALSO call me crazy but I think Noura is the favorite to win this season :joker: followed by Tommy (would be a "typical" finish but not one I'm fully expecting), Janet & Dean in that order.

I threw Dean in as I feel like he's quite involved with the plot since like episode 3 but I do think the winner will likely be Noura, Tommy or Janet. I kinda think there has been too much "goat" focus for either Noura or Dean to not win? Maybe I'm tripping :joker:

[Macie Lightfoot]

- Teaching Time with Tommy #TTWT (good catchy line actually and kinda defining moment if he does indeed win)

It was....... an empty quote that he definitely had planned in his head beforehand and thought it would sound badass but in reality it was lame and didn't even make sense. It defined **** all, which I guess could be indicative of the fact that Tommy's edit is **** all and he's done **** all? But definitely not iconic in the way he was going for.

[MB.]

Lol memorable was the key there

It wasn't just some Nouramal moments and phrases :dazzler:

I've already forgotten who Tommy is, let alone what he said in last week's episode, so I beg to differ tbh!

[MB.]

Also there's this, which is notable for featuring both Michele Fitzgerald and her time-travelling future self in the same photo

1203532514570227712

[Wizard.]

It was....... an empty quote that he definitely had planned in his head beforehand and thought it would sound badass but in reality it was lame and didn't even make sense. It defined **** all, which I guess could be indicative of the fact that Tommy's edit is **** all and he's done **** all? But definitely not iconic in the way he was going for.

I love you :love:

[Macie Lightfoot]

“Your lesson is jury management. Flip a coin!”

[Macie Lightfoot]

To recap: Dean now has an Idol Nullifier at F7 because his name was drawn from a bag and then he flipped a coin.

“ThE GaMe iS ChAnGiNg“ yeah it’s changing into complete garbage, even BBUS twists at least pretend to have more integrity than this?!?!

[Macie Lightfoot]

WHAT THE FUUUUUUUCK

I can’t even be happy about this bc the optics are completely atrocious?!?! This show needs to be put down

[MB.]

I haven't watched yet (West Coast) and probably won't (complete lack of interest), but did Dan really get the "Poochie died on the way back to his home planet" treatment? :skull:

And now I'm hearing all sorts of mess about no live finale/Jeff refusing to do press etc, so... perhaps Survivor ought to die on the way back to its home planet as well

[Macie Lightfoot]

Yeah Jeff is outright refusing to comment ~out of respect for the person involved~ and the finale is gonna be on a four hour tape delay so Tommy’s win will be spoiled. Dan is officially in That Bottom Tier of contestants like Russell, Phillip, and Colton, and I don’t think I would care if this show got cancelled because this is depressingly atrocious.

Also I had no clue MB was a west coaster :love:

[JerseyWins]

Omg I'm lmao @ the Legacy advantage segment between Dean, Rob & Sandra :joker:

I reeeally hope Dean doesn't crumble with an embarrassing legacy advantage moment like I'd say it's pretty obviously leaning towards - I sort of feel like too much for it to actually happen. :fc: Dean getting the idol nullifier tho :clap1:

[JerseyWins]

Where are we in the game right now?
Noura: At tribal council? :joker:

Ok that episode was preeeetty boring & very predictable. Elaine's super sweet </3

Oh WOW @ the delayed Dan removal? :o Like that's GREAT but feels soooo random & awkward at this point. 'after report of another incident that happened off-camera and didn't involve a player' oh shiiiit I want to know what it is :omgno:

I was just thinking ffs another episode with no sign of Dan going but finally he's gone :joker:

[Jigs]

Gooped and gagged @ Dan's ejection. First time in 39 seasons. Surely after the Kellee drama you just wouldn't lay your finger on another person for the rest of the season?!

Dean's coin flip advantage was hilariously overpowered considering its F7, he got to choose from 3 different advantages based on what suited his trajectory to the endgame best, AND he didn't have to untie anything from underneath a table during the immunity challenge whilst surrounded in close proximity by 7 of his tribemates (See: Elaine). I've thoroughly enjoyed this season but the amount of idols and advantages has been one of the down sides. They either need to make these idols much harder to obtain, or just stop scattering them round the island every time one is played.

[Matthew.]

Omg I just watched this episode, then closed the tab after Elaine walks off, like… I always do… and then come on here to find out DAN’S BEEN REMOVED :dazzler: Goodbye you creepy pervert!!!

[Macie Lightfoot]

The Dan thing is just soooooooo terrible I’m still not over it. Like, the show basically left Missy and Elizabeth and others out to dry and let them take the heat for his actions, and he was allowed to vote off all of these people before randomly getting removed himself. The message being sent is that it doesn’t matter when he sexually assaults other players on a repeated basis starting from *Day 1* but as soon as it happens to a member of production it’s suddenly not okay. A ****ing blind person could’ve seen this coming, but we’re now at the point where production openly doesn’t care about the well-being of the players and will only take action when they are on the receiving end of it.

I know we’re at the point where Survivor has jumped so many sharks that there aren’t any more left to jump, but I don’t even have another metaphor to use to express infuriating this incident is, especially considering that it was COMPLETELY preventable.

[Macie Lightfoot]

Also Varner is human garbage. He tweeted that the cast LOVES Dan and are upset by his removal and the truth will come out, and he doesn’t know Kellee and couldn’t pick her out off the street *BUT* she’s a liar and the cast doesn’t like her :3

I’m so mad reading his tweets I can’t even formulate a good post about it. He SUCKS and y’all are still dumb as hell for initially saying you felt bad for *him* when he outed Zeke

[Jigs]

In fairness, when the storyline blew up between Missy/Elizabeth/Janet/Kellee they did ask Kellee if she wanted them to do something about it and she said it was fine, and that's when they decided to hold the group meeting and pull Dan aside separately. This additional incident had obviously happened after Dan was given his warning, so that's why they took the decision to expel him. I don't believe that the show holds one standard for the treatment against its contestants and another for the treatment against production staff.

I genuinely believe had Kellee expressed that she wanted action to be taken against Dan, that it would have been. But I get that this is where it becomes tricky because that's just leaving it all up to Kellee as opposed to taking the initiative themselves and seeing that Kellee was highly distressed by the whole situation, so take action. You can't watch her go through such strong emotion and THEN burden her with the additional responsibility of being the sole person to say "Yeah, let's chuck him out of the game for this".

[Wizard.]

I was hoping the NO in Noura would seal Dean's fate but he's one lucky bastard!

Bye Dan I feel bad for his son though.

I'm just like anyone but Tommy at this moment.

[Macie Lightfoot]

In fairness, when the storyline blew up between Missy/Elizabeth/Janet/Kellee they did ask Kellee if she wanted them to do something about it and she said it was fine, and that's when they decided to hold the group meeting and pull Dan aside separately. This additional incident had obviously happened after Dan was given his warning, so that's why they took the decision to expel him. I don't believe that the show holds one standard for the treatment against its contestants and another for the treatment against production staff.

I genuinely believe had Kellee expressed that she wanted action to be taken against Dan, that it would have been. But I get that this is where it becomes tricky because that's just leaving it all up to Kellee as opposed to taking the initiative themselves and seeing that Kellee was highly distressed by the whole situation, so take action. You can't watch her go through such strong emotion and THEN burden her with the additional responsibility of being the sole person to say "Yeah, let's chuck him out of the game for this".

The group meeting was later revealed to be a very quick reminder of "hey guys, just want to remind you that we're here for you if you're ever not feeling comfortable or safe xx" ~10 minutes before an Immunity Challenge, and it was entirely out of the blue with no context so some of the players didn't even realize it was pertaining to a specific incident. Not to mention that nobody knew that Dan received a warning until watching the merge episode when the rest of America found out. And not to even mention the fact that there wasn't a warning until the merge episode when there was a whole montage worth of "please stop touching me, Dan" moments that happened pre-merge.

Production handled everything terribly and it's not hard at all for me to believe that they didn't give a **** about when things happened to Kellee and only started to care when it happened to one of their own. So much of what Jeff has said in interviews was immediately contradicted by people like Kellee and Jamal in their exit interviews. Again, there were countless flashbacks and montages of Dan touching practically every single woman he came in contact with but none of it mattered until he grabbed some producer's leg coming off of a boat. And like you said, it's absolute ****ing bull**** to leave the decision up to Kellee as to whether or not she wants to single-handedly remove Dan from the game. It's the exact reason why victim don't speak up. Nick from Kaoh Rong actually said it best in one his tweets after the merge episode, saying that people are still medevaced by production's judgment even when they desperately want to stay in the game, so producers should treat mental anguish the same as physical anguish and step up and make those decisions that someone like Kellee should not have to solely make herself.

[JerseyWins]

Tbf I think it was just kind of a final strike for Dan rather than prioritizing the staff's feelings over the cast's feelings. It still felt so random & awkward how it happened on the show nnnn :skull:


Also, random thought I could see Lauren winning too but I just don't think her edit is all that winner-esque? It just makes some sense with her being a woman & POC when that's had a lot of focus on this season. Plus she's involved in a lot at least.

If not an obvious Tommy win I could still picture a miraculous Noura win which would be ****ing hilarious :joker:

Janet... does her edit suggest winner at all? Maybe with this jury? :shrug: Dean doesn't really have the winner feel either, he has the Jay / Dr. Mike type of finale finish feel... but man that'd also be absolutely hilarious and even better than a Noura win :dazzler:

[Matthew.]

Tommy’s edit makes him seem like such an obvious winner that I’m wondering if they’re doing it on purpose to throw us off. I hope I’m right because we know nothing about him as a person other than his profession, he has a girlfriend, and his name is Tommy. That’s literally it? Like, just look at the state of this...

https://i.imgur.com/X7JUmPN.jpg

I’m rooting for a Noura or a Janet win. The other 3 would be meh. I don’t hate Dean as much as everyone else but he’s definitely lost the charm he had previously, and Lauren is pretty dull imo?

[Headie]

I don't get why they bothered making Kellee and Missy the decoy winners when they were both early-merge boots. Would've made more sense to make Lauren the decoy winner just so Tommy's win was less obvious and the season was less predictable/more enjoyable.

[Jigs]

WAIT

Now that Dan is gone, will Janet be able to use her idol at the f5 tribal? If not, lol @ them giving Dean an idol nullifier just for it to be, well, nullified.

[JerseyWins]

People hating Dean just isn't Nouramal :idc:

[Macie Lightfoot]

WAIT

Now that Dan is gone, will Janet be able to use her idol at the f5 tribal? If not, lol @ them giving Dean an idol nullifier just for it to be, well, nullified.

Dean's gonna use the Nullifier and Janet will get sent home, Tommy will ~betray Lauren in epic fashion~ and force her to make fire and she'll lose to probably Dean, and then he'll sweep the F3 with Dean maaaaaaybe getting one vote because of course he'll somehow place higher than Noura. Meaning that Janet lost the game only because Dean's name was drawn from a bag and Boston Rob flipped a coin :skull:

[MB.]

I'm so glad that this season, this franchise and Jeff Probst's career ended at the merge :love:

[JerseyWins]

I'm just glad we get to follow up this season with Tony Vlachos

Also when I think about it more, I really feel like a Tommy win is too obvious for it to actually happen... but I can't really put my finger on who else would actually win so maybe it's just intended that way. I guess there's pretty damn obvious winners some years :shrug:

Again... unless the finish is just not a nouramal one at all. :dazzler:

[Captain.Remy]

I'm so glad that this season, this franchise and Jeff Probst's career ended at the merge :love:

The inappropriate touching also happened in the latest version of French Survivor earlier this year, but the production team actually stopped taping the series and sent all contestants back to France. There is an on-going trial between two contestants.

That, plus the accidental death of a contestant a few years ago during a challenge almost killed the French version but the ratings are very good in France (after 23 seasons), so they taped another series with different contestants.

[Macie Lightfoot]

https://ew.com/tv/2019/12/17/survivor-inappropriate-touching-cbs-statement/

PLEASE cancel this show I’m just so tired of all of the bull****

[JerseyWins]

I'm actually excited for the finale... not for the actual finale (maybe a bit just to see what Dean & Noura do in the final episode) but just to see the Winners at War announcement / trailer / whatever they give for it. The hype keeps increasing :clap1:

[JerseyWins]

First time ever I'm more excited for the reunion than the finale. :laugh:

Lesgetittttttt with a Dean or Noura win tho... Maybe I'm hopelessly rooting for these two but I could honestly see it. :laugh: Particularly hoping for Dean & particularly could see Noura winning.

[JerseyWins]

I kinda wish Rob & Sandra just appeared as a surprise at final TC tbh... although I mean it'd only be a surprise for Tommy anyway (if even a surprise for him) :joker:

[Macie Lightfoot]

It's ****ing Tommy just stop.

I feel dumber for watching this stupid Island of the Idols twist.

[Headie]

I'm watching (even tho Tommy's win is one of the most obvious in history - I haven't even read any spoilers and yet I already feel like I have :rolleyes:)

[JerseyWins]

Another ex-boyfriend reference from Noura :joker:

[Headie]

Which producer gave Tommy an idol clue at F5 :skull:

[Macie Lightfoot]

Tommy turning his color blindness into a gamebot thing is almost as absurd as Kim Spradlin turning the pig roaming into camp as something that was great for her game.

[Headie]

Tommy turning his color blindness into a gamebot thing is almost as absurd as Kim Spradlin turning the pig roaming into camp as something that was great for her game.

Screaming, he's really out here acting like him being colour-blind means the odds are stacked against him in the game :skull:

[Macie Lightfoot]

Also we're at the point where BEING COLORBLIND is personal content :skull:

This absurd clue is like the final game in The Mole that nobody can ever win.

[Headie]

Why is this segment so long just give him his idol already and get on with it :skull:

[JerseyWins]

DK chillin babyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

[JerseyWins]

Dean is #WINNING

Omg I LOVE that entire scene / that closing confessional from Dean :joker: :clap1:

[Headie]

SCREAMING Tommy doing all that narrative just for ****ing Dean to find it

[Macie Lightfoot]

I ****ing hate Dean but I'd dick the Idol out of his crotch with my mouth tbh.

[Headie]

Sksksksk Janet jiggling

[JerseyWins]

Dean teaching Algebra II Honors right now :dazzler:

[Headie]

Ohh okay Lauren!

[JerseyWins]

OOOOF Dean is just KILLING this finale say it ain't so :joker:

[Headie]

Dean better turn on Tommy, play his idol for whoever the boot target is, nullify Janet's idol and get Tommy out!

Mess Dean could actually win :omgno:

[MB.]

I'm at the airport so I guess I'll find it out if Karishma wins by a unanimous vote or just a 9-1-0 vote via this thread

[Headie]

I'm at the airport so I guess I'll find it out if Karishma wins by a unanimous vote or just a 9-1-0 vote via this thread

Dean is currently getting a mastermind edit if that's any indication of how much of a mess this season is

[Headie]

Sksk American news adverts are so weird and abrupt :joker:

"A SCHOOL BOARD MEMBER BUSTED FOR DOING METH. AT 11 :)" -jumps straight back into the ep-

[Headie]

Ok but why is Tommy not a boot option??? Like idgi

[Headie]

Tommy really said to Dean "I'll LET you have that move" as if he owns the game :skull:

[JerseyWins]

So this is the last time to use idols right?

Even though it now feels like he'll just crash and burn in 4th place this is glorious from Dean right now :joker:

[Headie]

Sksksk did Tommy really just say "usually I'm the person picking who goes home" :joker: He's been surprised at numerous tribals now

[Headie]

Another teaching analogy, oh how fun and charismatic!

[Macie Lightfoot]

So Janet lost Survivor because.................... Dean's name was drawn from a bag and he flipped a coin correctly :skull::skull::skull::skull::skull:

This show is complete garbage. It's abysmal.

[Macie Lightfoot]

Again, it's interesting how there was no Idol Nullifier that could've been used on Rick Devens last year.

[Macie Lightfoot]

This is actually atrocious.

[Headie]

So Janet lost Survivor because.................... Dean's name was drawn from a bag and he flipped a coin correctly :skull::skull::skull::skull::skull:

This show is complete garbage. It's abysmal.

Yep. Hopefully casuals finally start to go off the twists now that their season fave has been a victim of it.

[JerseyWins]

Trump impeached & Dean wins Survivor 39 on the same day? This is 'uuuuuuuuuge :fan:

[Headie]

Sksk the impeachment news interrupting Survivor and the anchor having to say to viewers "for those of you watching Survivor I promise you you will not miss a minute of it!"

American TV has been so messy this year.

[Headie]

Bye how long is this impeachment news break, get back to Survivor smh.

[JerseyWins]

Also I'm pretty glad Janet went, that would've been a BORING winner that would only have gotten it out of 'likability' and respect that didn't even have much to do with the game. I can accept any of the 4 winning now but Tommy or Lauren would still be a bit meh despite that I like them.

[Macie Lightfoot]

Why am I having to explain to someone literal DAYS away from 2020 that a huge part of winning Survivor is being well-liked? Like the entire thesis statement of the show is that the Jury will vote for whoever they can accept losing to. That *IS* the game!!!

[Headie]

Why am I having to explain to someone literal DAYS away from 2020 that a huge part of winning Survivor is being well-liked? Like the entire thesis statement of the show is that the Jury will vote for whoever they can accept losing to. That *IS* the game!!!

:joker:

Some people just don't get it!

[Headie]

Praying Lauren wins this final IC and takes Noura :fc:

[JerseyWins]

Dean better win immunity or make the fire first :worry:

[Headie]

BYE Noura thirsting over Dean :skull:

[JerseyWins]

Why am I having to explain to someone literal DAYS away from 2020 that a huge part of winning Survivor is being well-liked? Like the entire thesis statement of the show is that the Jury will vote for whoever they can accept losing to. That *IS* the game!!!
Because it's not. It's subjective. Some juries / jury members will take their emotional feelings out of it and vote based on game tactics and being outsmarted / outplayed by others. When a winner is chosen based on likability and non-game related respect... that's just lame honestly :joker: (and to me quite undeserved)

[Headie]

Because it's not. It's subjective. Some juries / jury members will take their emotional feelings out of it and vote based on game tactics and being outsmarted / outplayed by others. When a winner is chosen based on likability and non-game related respect... that's just lame honestly :joker: (and to me quite undeserved)

Anything that happens on that island is game-related. If you're the most liked on the island, that's game related. If you played a cutthroat game but people don't want to vote for you because you're not a very nice person, that's game related.

It's not a difficult concept!

[Headie]

Tbh as much as I'm really against an obvious Tommy win, I'd much rather he won over Dean still, who's game has consisted solely of targeting powerful women.

[JerseyWins]

Ahhhhh can Noura take Dean to F3 pleeeease :worry:

Dang this is very much Dean collapsing in 4th isn't it :joker:

[Headie]

Bye thirsty Noura is gonna take Dean isn't she :skull:

[Macie Lightfoot]

If the goal of the game is to get the most Jury votes and you fail to do so, that's a reflection on your game, not on the Jury's views of the game. This has been true since the show's inception and still remains true. Like yes all Juries are different, but they still operate under the same terms fundamentally: the Jury will never vote for someone who they wouldn't be able to handle losing to.

[Macie Lightfoot]

OTTNoura :love:

[JerseyWins]

Noura needs to put Tommy & Lauren against each other here.

Lmfaoooooooo @ Noura's long list of adjectives explaining her game :joker:

[Headie]

Noura just wants to CHILL AND HAVE A PIECE OF PINEAPPLE xoxo :joker:

[JerseyWins]

Lauren crying her eyes out :joker: Meanwhile Dean already practicing :joker:

Hopefully Lauren keeps crying into the fire :worry:

[Headie]

Noura taking Tommy :skull: Honestly they shoulda just never aired this season

[Macie Lightfoot]

Okay Lauren stomping off like a 16 year old who just lost an ORG sobbing is a ****ing MOOD AND A HALF :love::love::love: honestly she's ****ing hilarious and would be actually good if her edit wasn't MORboring.

[Headie]

Ugh I actually can't deal with smug Dean

[JerseyWins]

Screaming at this Lauren / Noura argument :joker:

[Headie]

Cirie, Cydney, Lauren

https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/babarsuhail/44099981/43484/43484_original.gif

[Macie Lightfoot]

Lauren's eleventh hour meltdown is very Wolfy BBUK14 :love:

[Headie]

Lauren's eleventh hour meltdown is very Wolfy BBUK14 :love:

Her to stand up at tribal and yell "THIS is what fat looks like"?

[Headie]

Just cut this BS and get to the reunion

[JerseyWins]

Finally Dean's fire gaining momentum :clap1:

Soooooo here for this F3!!! :clap2: Unfortunate if Tommy just ends up winning but it's gonna be a fun F3 nonetheless. EDIT: And Tommy's a good winner anyway just predictable / a bit boring

[Headie]

TOOT TOOT you did that x

[Macie Lightfoot]

HONESTLY I'd be down for a Lauren return lmao she's clearly a ****ing psychopath who was given a tame edit and the mask would fully slip if she were to ever play again.

[Macie Lightfoot]

Dean, a Division I athlete and Ivy League graduate, has never been more proud than being a goat on Survivor.

[JerseyWins]

Ok actually Noura is WINNING this season :joker:

Eh, well maybe after this Tommy confessional it'll still be Tommy.

[Headie]

Tommy making it to the end with two of the biggest goats ever :skull:

[JerseyWins]

This is actually one of the better finales I've seen actually which I didn't expect. And I'm hoping this FTC questioning is as good as I'm expecting now and it also actually ends up unpredictable at the least :fc:

[Macie Lightfoot]

Imagine being excited for a Final TC with this new format in 2019.

[Headie]

Tommy's winner edit has literally consisted of "I told Lauren the wrong instructions to make fire, I'm so smart :hehe: I told Noura to say something in her F3 speech, I'm so smart :hehe: I told everyone I don't know how to make fire when I actually do, I'm so smart :hehe: I'm colourblind but I still found a HII clue, I'm so smart :hehe:"

Like is this what warrants a Survivor win nowadays? Lmao I miss the days of Hatch and Tina

[JerseyWins]

Tommy's winner edit has literally consisted of "I told Lauren the wrong instructions to make fire, I'm so smart :hehe: I told Noura to say something in her F3 speech, I'm so smart :hehe: I told everyone I don't know how to make fire when I actually do, I'm so smart :hehe: I'm colourblind but I still found a HII clue, I'm so smart :hehe:"

Like is this what warrants a Survivor win nowadays? Lmao I miss the days of Hatch and Tina
Better than winning just for being liked

[Headie]

Imagine being excited for a Final TC with this new format in 2019.

I'm literally just watching to see how the messy reunion gets handled and that's it :skull: Season 40 can't come soon enough honestly.

[Headie]

Better than winning just for being liked

nPQmfS2CihY

[Headie]

Karishma looks STUNNING

[JerseyWins]

Nnnnnnn this is a rough start for Noura lmaooooooo :joker:

Come on DEAN bring it home

[Headie]

The jury shouting Noura down :skull: Let her speak!

[Headie]

Kellee is literally the only sensible person in this entire season tbh

[Macie Lightfoot]

Better than winning just for being liked

I mean, when Tommy wins (not if, he's ****ing winning) isn't it going to be mainly because he's the most liked and respected? He didn't really make any big moves or power plays, WHICH IS TOTALLY FINE, but like...... he didn't ****ing do anything tangible lmao. He just lived on an island and a lot of people trusted him because there was maybe some charisma that didn't translate into television? He's winning because people liked him and he's up against two goats in the end.

[Headie]

Tommy's "big move" being Dean telling him at the last minute he was going home... I-

[Macie Lightfoot]

Kellee reading Dean for filth to his face ajsd;lfkjas;elje

[JerseyWins]

GAHHHH Dean with the total goat speeches nooooo

[Headie]

Not Tommy spoiling his participation to his students before he left :skull: Disqualify ha!

[Headie]

GAHHHH Dean with the total goat speeches nooooo

It's worse because he has no idea he's a goat :skull: Whereas everyone has already told Noura she is

[Headie]

Dean thinks he's winning sksksk I wish the votes were read that night instead of back in the US cos I'd love to see his face when he realises he hasn't :joker:

[JerseyWins]

SCREEEEEEEEEEEEAMING drop that mic! That's a hell of a FTC debate battle :joker:

[Macie Lightfoot]

Dean pointing and literally yelling in Tommy's face ANYTHING YOU CAN DO I CAN DO BETTER :skull:

this FTC is a ****ing ****show like this show has no merit whatsoever :joker:

[Headie]

Have Elisabeth or Jack even spoke this ep

[Macie Lightfoot]

Karishma twisting the dagger in Dean's heart :love:

[Headie]

Noura getting ignored like Angelina did </3

[JerseyWins]

Dean is a total MESS this is ****ing iconic :joker:

Best FTC in history. Drop the mic

[Headie]

Ahhh Noura "YOU'RE SEEING HIM FOR WHAT HE IS!!"

[Headie]

Dean is a total MESS this is ****ing iconic :joker:

Best FTC in history. Drop the mic

Why is it every season you come across as if it's your first time watching I- :skull:

[JerseyWins]

Real talk that's a badass final speech from Dean tho :clap1:

[Macie Lightfoot]

In good news, that was proooobably the best FTC since the format change? The bar is soooo ****ing low but this was a complete disaster in the best way possible.

In not so good news, all of their performances were ****ing atrocious and the only reason Janet is not a millionaire is because of a coin flip :skull:

[Macie Lightfoot]

Dean's about to beat Noura :skull:s

[JerseyWins]

1207498054900895745

[Headie]

Not Dean getting a vote :skull: Poor Noura

[Macie Lightfoot]

Real talk that's a badass final speech from Dean tho :clap1:

Okay this might be the funniest post of the night.

[Headie]

Oop no #LIVE graphic :fan:

[JerseyWins]

Why is it every season you come across as if it's your first time watching I- :skull:
I just like the show and am pretty optimistic :joker:

Also usually the finales aren't the greatest for some reason so this one was really unexpectedly fun

Predictable Tommy win but eh it was his for the taking I was just hoping for a funny Noura or Dean miracle (I get there was never a chance lmao but for sure no chance after that FTC tho)

[Macie Lightfoot]

The season of strong women, diversity, and Difficult Conversations ending with two boring as **** straight white males going 1-2. Of ****ing course.

[JerseyWins]

But Dean with the GOAT (Greatest of All Time / goat :fan:) finale performance and somehow 2 votes... I'll take it :dazzler:

Noura getting 0 votes after it was so pro-women tho :skull:

[Headie]

I just hope next season the winner is unpredictable (most likely will be harder to predict anyway as they've all got winning pasts :joker:) as it really is a joke that they didn't bother to provide us with a single decoy winner this season and made it so obvious with the edit :skull:

Also can a woman win next season pls (Sandra/Natalie xoxo) as it's really been like what - 4 years?

[Headie]

Ahhh Sandra sat on her throne

[Macie Lightfoot]

Also can a woman win next season pls (Sandra/Natalie xoxo) as it's really been like what - 4 years?

Five male winners in a row and 8/10 male winners from 30-39.

[Headie]

Seeing the pre-jury sat with the cast feels so weird, like I literally don't remember any of them being on this season :skull: Except Vince who doesn't feel like he was a part of this season and was on a different season??

[JerseyWins]

If you follow the herd you'll never be heard. PERIODT

Ah.. love Noura :joker:

[Headie]

#BeYourOwnLegend #IfYouFollowTheHerdYoullNeverBeHeard

[Headie]

Elaine getting the unofficial fan favourite title just because she was the underdog for like, what, two episodes?

Try being Karishma for a whole season lmao

[Headie]

I guess Elaine and Janet are the only ones that will get asked back from this season ugh

[Headie]

Sksksk they're gonna make out like the show is super progressive with the durag thing ahh

[Macie Lightfoot]

The Sia Gift (TM) becoming canon :skull:

[Macie Lightfoot]

Janet and ELAINE getting 100k but Jamal only getting 15k :joker::joker::joker::joker::joker::joker::joker:: joker::joker::joker::joker::joker:

no wonder why the bitch can't show her face....x

[JerseyWins]

Damn Sia giving out them checks in an extra giving mood this year :joker: fffffffffff @ Jamal getting only $15K compared to the other 2 geez :laugh:

Seeing the pre-jury sat with the cast feels so weird, like I literally don't remember any of them being on this season :skull: Except Vince who doesn't feel like he was a part of this season and was on a different season??
Omg.. I literally just remembered Ronnie ffs :joker:

Get him & Chelsea some talking time :(

[Headie]

$100,000 I-

[Headie]

And nothing for Kellee I-

[Macie Lightfoot]

Standing up to racism and sexual harassers: $15,000
Being a chubby civilian who is "relatable" and "funny": $100,000

The gap is astounding :joker::skull: and as mad as I am about Kellee not getting any money it would honestly be kind of a ****ty look to give her money after what she went through.

[Macie Lightfoot]

Jeff your talk show got cancelled for a reason.

[Macie Lightfoot]

"If this happened today" is happened six months ago?!?!?!?!? Not a ****ing decade ago?!?!?!

[Headie]

Standing up to racism and sexual harassers: $15,000
Being a chubby civilian who is "relatable" and "funny": $100,000

The gap is astounding :joker::skull: and as mad as I am about Kellee not getting any money it would honestly be kind of a ****ty look to give her money after what she went through.

I thought that too but then if I remember correctly Elaine was one of the more vocal Dan sympathisers in that episode

Also it's kind of a joke that Sia's favourites get more money than an actual finalist.

[Headie]

Hereeeee we gooooo /BeckyJane

[Macie Lightfoot]

omg this segment is ATROCIOUS and so exploitative, who the **** thought this was a good idea?!?!?!?

[JerseyWins]

Not to be disrespectful to Kellee or even the show after what happened but oooof this segment is cringey & dragging ngl :laugh:

[Macie Lightfoot]

I can't express my level of disappoint when we didn't get a truth or dare soundbite

[JerseyWins]

Disappointing preview for Winners at War </3 Not long or interesting enough, basically none of the cast in attendance, not much hype for it in general.

Meh, it's a good thing I enjoyed the finale then at least :joker:

[Headie]

They really snubbed Sandra, Natalie and Winchele in the trailer to promote bums like Adam and Ben :skull: A waste of a trailer!

[Macie Lightfoot]

Honestly Ben is probably one of the better male winners they brought back :shrug::joker: I was much more concerned hearing YUL's boring ass voice explain Fire Tokens

[Headie]

Also lol @ Jeff saying "EVERY winner you'd ever want to see!"

[Headie]

Five male winners in a row and 8/10 male winners from 30-39.

It's also the fourth season in a row to have only one woman in the final 3 and get 0 votes against two guys

The last season to not have a 2 men & 1 woman final 3 set-up was Koah Rong :skull:

[Headie]

cM7I2P3gaQQ

[JerseyWins]

It's also the fourth season in a row to have only one woman in the final 3 and get 0 votes against two guys

The last season to not have a 2 men & 1 woman final 3 set-up was Koah Rong :skull:
Technically 1 man & 2 Gods in this F3

[Headie]

1207502571381776384

Didn't know I needed this :love:

[Matthew.]

A good finale, but Tommy is such a dull winner lmao. Noura was a hoot throughout the whole episode :love:

[Jigs]

I was really rooting for Dean at the end. His FTC performance was much better than what I thought it was going to be, and I was glad that Tommy got way more heat and they didn't just let him cake walk it.

Noura is my favourite person this season but I knew she didn't stand a chance. Either way, I genuinely find Noura so so inspiring like coming from someone who sees a lot of himself in Noura she genuinely makes me feel like despite being a brash person and constantly feeling misunderstood by a lot of people, that everything will always work itself out in the end?? Such a frazzled, fragmented personality but yet so wise and quotable. She's a queen!

[Jigs]

I thought this season was amazing. I'm surprised so many people here have such negative things to say about it considering it clearly generated a lot of talking points. The cast was extremely likable (minus Dan) so if your biggest gripe with season 39 were characters as painfully inoffensive as Tommy f*ing Sheehan then I think that's a good result!

There's a very stark difference that exists between visibility and tokenism. Does it really matter that the season was won by a white male? Does it matter that Noura got 0 votes and this was the fourth season this has happened? It sounds like a cliché but Survivor is a microcosm of real life and the winner wasn't picked by production, he wasn't picked by the viewing public, he was picked by the people who have gotten to know him over 39 days and who valued his game more over literally TWO others (both of which were goats anyway tbh). Lauren and Missy, two African-American women, were both taken out for being such huge threats (Missy physical; Lauren social), so to discredit the season/show in general simply because the winner does not come from your preferred demographic is silly.

A black winner does not make a good season.
A female winner does not make a good season.
Just ask Ghost Island and San Juan Del Sur~

[Wizard.]

How is this the fourth season I've watched and all four have had 2 guys and 1 woman in the final with the woman getting no votes!

[Headie]

I thought this season was amazing. I'm surprised so many people here have such negative things to say about it considering it clearly generated a lot of talking points. The cast was extremely likable (minus Dan) so if your biggest gripe with season 39 were characters as painfully inoffensive as Tommy f*ing Sheehan then I think that's a good result!

There's a very stark difference that exists between visibility and tokenism. Does it really matter that the season was won by a white male? Does it matter that Noura got 0 votes and this was the fourth season this has happened? It sounds like a cliché but Survivor is a microcosm of real life and the winner wasn't picked by production, he wasn't picked by the viewing public, he was picked by the people who have gotten to know him over 39 days and who valued his game more over literally TWO others (both of which were goats anyway tbh). Lauren and Missy, two African-American women, were both taken out for being such huge threats (Missy physical; Lauren social), so to discredit the season/show in general simply because the winner does not come from your preferred demographic is silly.

A black winner does not make a good season.
A female winner does not make a good season.
Just ask Ghost Island and San Juan Del Sur~

Sweetie did you just call San Juan Del Sur a bad season... I- :skull:

Also no ones has even mentioned race so what are you on about :laugh: It just so happens that this season the most interesting/entertaining/likeable players were mostly POC. People are more pissed at how the sexual harassment situation was dealt with (and how obvious the winner edit was).

[JerseyWins]

I’m still buzzing over Dean’s 4th quarter comeback win last night :dazzler:

But really I can’t get over how much he shined in that finale :joker: Bring that boy back!

[Jigs]

Sweetie did you just call San Juan Del Sur a bad season... I- :skull:

Also no ones has even mentioned race so what are you on about :laugh: It just so happens that this season the most interesting/entertaining/likeable players were mostly POC. People are more pissed at how the sexual harassment situation was dealt with (and how obvious the winner edit was).

Sweetie what on Earth was good about it besides Natalie Anderson like honestly enlighten me~

Sorry if the race topic seems out of the blue, I was just referring to several posts I’ve witnessed over the last few weeks. A few people in this thread have complained about the show at every opportunity and I wanted to remind them that a show can still be good even if it doesn’t go your way. Tbh if I had my way we would’ve had a Missy win this season but what I was trying to illustrate is that no one should feel the season sucked just because we got another white bread winner

[Jigs]

Jack and Elizabeth are dating randomly :skull:

[MB.]

Sweetie what on Earth was good about it besides Natalie Anderson like honestly enlighten me~

Do you need me to post the 20-page dissertation I have prepared on the Jonclyn experience

[Headie]

I'm actually flabbergasted someone doesn't like San Juan Del Sur! It's probably a Top 5 season for me!

[Jigs]

Let me list what I remember about SJDS

- Jeremy crying over Val
- Reed's Cinderella speech
- Natalie being a strategic goddess
- Baylor being hated by all

Did I miss anything?

[JerseyWins]

SJDS was pretty decent. Overrated on here but underrated to call it bad or especially to specifically single it out as a poor female-winner season. You could've went with South Pacific off the top of my head. Even One World (although I somewhat liked OW)

As for SJDS, Drew & Alec kept it entertaining early. The big John Rocker expose was fun. Natalie was a decently solid winner/narrator for the season (decent/solid entertainment-wise - very deserving game-wise). The downfall of Reed & Josh was fun too. But probably most importantly, you must be forgetting the Missy experience, the Jon & Jaclyn experience, and Keith Nale just being hilarious like all the time :joker:

[JerseyWins]

SJDS was better than decent actually, I'd call it a very good season probably top 10 or better but I forget the seasons a bit so idk exactly where I'd rank. The family aspect to it (especially with no returning players) was just really good in general. I think that made things extra hectic especially in the pre-merge.

[Macie Lightfoot]

I thought this season was amazing. I'm surprised so many people here have such negative things to say about it considering it clearly generated a lot of talking points. The cast was extremely likable (minus Dan) so if your biggest gripe with season 39 were characters as painfully inoffensive as Tommy f*ing Sheehan then I think that's a good result!

There's a very stark difference that exists between visibility and tokenism. Does it really matter that the season was won by a white male? Does it matter that Noura got 0 votes and this was the fourth season this has happened? It sounds like a cliché but Survivor is a microcosm of real life and the winner wasn't picked by production, he wasn't picked by the viewing public, he was picked by the people who have gotten to know him over 39 days and who valued his game more over literally TWO others (both of which were goats anyway tbh). Lauren and Missy, two African-American women, were both taken out for being such huge threats (Missy physical; Lauren social), so to discredit the season/show in general simply because the winner does not come from your preferred demographic is silly.

A black winner does not make a good season.
A female winner does not make a good season.
Just ask Ghost Island and San Juan Del Sur~

Okay so there is A Lot to unpack here but ~the talking points~ were exhausting and kind of offensive? We're at a point where the show is constantly trying to be woke and faux feminist, but then the mechanics of the game and the decisions production makes entirely negate this. Casting Dan at all in the first place was irresponsible, but to let him get all the way to Day 36 is frighteningly offensive considering the signs were there literally since the premiere. This is not the first instance where the show has shoved feminism down our throats, only to slap us across the face with it. We had Sandra literally proclaiming that a woman will win this season, only for that to be immediately followed by a reverse #MeToo movement where a woman speaks up and gets voted out, her two most vocal defenders are voted out or gastlit and ostracized, and only one male was voted out after the merge double episode. The show is basically trolling its viewers at this point, and we're at a point now where the statistics comparing successful males and successful females is increasingly alarming. It's the first time we've had five male winners in a row, men have received 50/52 of the FTC votes in the last five seasons, and the endgame format changes and absurd advantages have been well-documented at this point. A lot of the blame lies with production for the changes they have made to the game, but a lot of the blame also lies with the casting team if you ask me. When you look at the recent players cast for the show, the men are more often Serious Strategists while the women can occasionally be strategists, but are more often bikini fodder or recently Kooky And Zany Characters. We're at the point now where any given Survivor season will start off with 8-10 men who realistically can win, but only 5ish women who realistically can win since the other half of the female cast consists of Nouras and Karishmas and Angelinas and Wendys and Reems.

And this isn't even getting into the Jury and how when a woman plays a UTR social game and the man plays an OTT "loud" game, the man wins for being DOMINANT and the woman is ripped apart for doing nothing, but at the same time when a man plays a UTR social game and the woman plays an OTT "loud" game, the man wins for being a social butterfly and the woman is ripped apart for being obnoxious.

I guess my point is that the demographic of the winner absolutely does matter when the show has had the same demographic winning season after season AND when the show teases us with hopes for change but then completely blue balls the viewers and denies us of anything different. But even when you exclude that, this season peaked pre-merge and became offensively grim at the merge and BORING in the endgame. And the pre-merge will certainly fade on rewatch when you know what's to come with the Dan/Kellee thing and the Janet thing and Lairo getting Pagonged and Tommy only winning because Dean flipped a coin.

Sweetie what on Earth was good about it besides Natalie Anderson like honestly enlighten me~

Sorry if the race topic seems out of the blue, I was just referring to several posts I’ve witnessed over the last few weeks. A few people in this thread have complained about the show at every opportunity and I wanted to remind them that a show can still be good even if it doesn’t go your way. Tbh if I had my way we would’ve had a Missy win this season but what I was trying to illustrate is that no one should feel the season sucked just because we got another white bread winner

San Juan del Sur has Natalie, Jaclyn, Missy, Keith, Baylor, Jon, Jeremy, Julie, Drew, Val..... the cast is pretty excellent from top to bottom with a few particular exceptions (Reed, Josh, John), the gameplay has a perfect blend of strategically-driven and emotionally-driven decisions, the characters pop and have intricate relationships with each other, and the season just continued to get better and better with each phase of the game. I'm rewatching it actually so you can enlighten yourself more in the rewatch thread when I post updates :)

[Headie]

sj91vE8WbmU

San Juan Del Legends <3

[JerseyWins]

And this isn't even getting into the Jury and how when a woman plays a UTR social game and the man plays an OTT "loud" game, the man wins for being DOMINANT and the woman is ripped apart for doing nothing, but at the same time when a man plays a UTR social game and the woman plays an OTT "loud" game, the man wins for being a social butterfly and the woman is ripped apart for being obnoxious.
Clearly the guys were more well-liked with the jury :shrug:

But anyway some of the recent losing females include: Chrissy, Laurel, Angelina, Julie, Noura ... like I don't think there's any gender bias with the results here. Based on edits they didn't exactly do all that much and/or didn't manage their relationships with the jury well at all. I think Chrissy maybe could've/should've won but the rest don't exactly scream winner material based on ANYTHING the jury could judge on whether that's big game moves, likability, respect, etc. :joker:

I guess my point is that the demographic of the winner absolutely does matter when the show has had the same demographic winning season after season AND when the show teases us with hopes for change but then completely blue balls the viewers and denies us of anything different. But even when you exclude that, this season peaked pre-merge and became offensively grim at the merge and BORING in the endgame. And the pre-merge will certainly fade on rewatch when you know what's to come with the Dan/Kellee thing and the Janet thing and Lairo getting Pagonged and Tommy only winning because Dean flipped a coin.
The winning demographic still shouldn't matter. It's a show about characters & strategies, not a show about which gender reigns supreme. It's not a big deal and whether a male or female wins shouldn't factor into anyone's opinion of a season or the show at all. Judge the winners on their characters & gameplay over what gender they are. I find it funny when people pay so much attention to male/female winning stats and what not. And I don't understand the concept of being disappointed or excited strictly about a specific gender winning or losing a season of a RTV show :skull: Being disappointed/excited over a good or bad winner for a season makes sense, not that 5 (deserving) males are winning in a row.

Last part not true either. Could've still easily been Lauren, Janet boots instead of Janet, Lauren. And idk if Janet is a lock to get more votes than Tommy anyway if they're both in the F3 (it surely would've been a closer battle tho).

[JerseyWins]

I guess Chris kinda wasn't deserving but when it's a F3 of Chris/Gavin/Julie ... yikes at picking a winner lol... at least what he did (his journey to the end) was something not seen yet in Survivor

But after all, Chris must've been most deserving if he managed to get the jury to want to vote for him despite already being voted off (such bad logic that everyone who wins was a deserving winner because you have to get the jury to want to vote for you in the end and obv the winner every season accomplishes that)

[Macie Lightfoot]

There's also a lot of inherent sexism within the game and the structure of the game that has gotten us to the point where the F3 is traditionally two men who split votes and a woman who people just pat on the head and condescendingly congratulate for making it to Day 39. Women like Gonzalez and Mari and Molly were singled out immediately for being massive threats and "Parvati 2.0" which absolutely comes from Probst reducing to Parvati's gameplay to "she flirted with the men and then voted them out." Plenty of people have earned just as much of a target on their backs, but for some reason there's a repeated fear of what a woman can do on Day 39 that starts on like Day 6. We also saw this with Elaine almost getting booted first this season because "if she makes it to the end she'll sweep the Jury" which is laughably dense logic to have during the premiere. We've also seen repeated instances of "male/female are a POWER DUO and we are...... going to weaken the guy by taking out the girl :3" This was the Chelsea vote this season, the Liz vote in Kaoh Rong, the Elyse vote in South Pacific, and sooooo many more in between. The players have conditioned themselves to believe that smart women are only harmful and never beneficial, whereas even a shifty dude is often kept around because "he's an asset in Challenges," the logic that saved Dean early on despite the fact that he was embarrassingly bad at anything physical and mental. Despite alpha males continuing to win year after year after year, we continue to hear about the dread all girls alliance and Parvati 2.0s and never about the Ben 2.0s or the Boston Robs or literally any other successful male archetype.

AND this doesn't even bring us into the bastardized format of the show now. We moved from a F2 to F3 because Jeff was upset about players like Terry getting axed right before the FTC and getting "robbed." The F4 fire-making twist was introduced because Jeff was upset about players David and Spencer and Malcolm and Ozzy getting axed right before the FTC for being too threatening and getting "robbed." There used to be a level of finesse needed to minimize your threat level and get people to not take you out before the FTC, a level of finesse that many of Probst's favorites lacked. Because of this, Jeff has decided to reward their gameplay by completely breaking the format to favor the in-your-face, alpha male type of gameplay. Idols and Advantages are rehidden immediately after they're played, creating a revolving door type of effect where the same players can and have become immune over and over again. Twists like Redemption Island and the Edge of Extinction were literally created to give people like Russell Hantz and Boston Rob and Joe Anglim a second chance if they were ever booted. And even with all of these changes to the endgame, Idols can still be played at F5. We're at a point now where you can play Survivor with the subtlety of a foghorn, play an Idol at F5, win your way through F4 either by means of Immunity or fire, and then win Survivor because of how much you've "overcome" or because of how flashy your game was. There are fewer consequences for playing recklessly. Camp dynamics create a dynamic where it's more difficult for women to leave camp, leaving men to more often find Idols an Advantages and thus a free ticket to the F4, and then these men can just put on a show and win $1,000,000. We saw Michele "play like a girl" and win through her social game, and as a result Probst completely changed the format of the show where you can now "play like a guy" and win year after year after year like Adam and Ben and Wendell and Nick.

And again, it does matter when the statistics have become frighteningly one-sided. It does matter when the show is literally preaching women empowerment while still operating in a way that fundamentally rewards male players. Just because you're content with the outcomes since the players you root for do well in this format doesn't mean you should stick your fingers in your ears and tune out what's right in front of you.

The last part is true as could be. Janet was explicitly taken out at 5 because she was the best fire-maker and the Jury loved her. The whole theme of the finale was "if Janet makes it to the end we're ****ed, so we need to nullify her Idol" which is still a laughably stupid concept. Even when we do get a woman who can win under this F4 fire-making format, she's not even allowed to get there because of an IDOL NULLIFIER that was literally won through the flip of a coin under the pretense of "teaching Dean a lesson about Jury management." This entire franchise has become a comedy of errors.

[Macie Lightfoot]

Also here's my damn edgic chart

https://i.imgur.com/Yc3tlva.png

[Matthew.]

Did someone say Edgic?

https://i.imgur.com/DSxCGqy.jpg

1. The amount of time that took to resize properly…
2. I counted the Dan exposure episode(s) as one single episode as they ran back to back.
3. Noura’s edgic :lovedup:
4. Merry Christmas! :love:

[JerseyWins]

There's also a lot of inherent sexism within the game and the structure of the game that has gotten us to the point where the F3 is traditionally two men who split votes and a woman who people just pat on the head and condescendingly congratulate for making it to Day 39. Women like Gonzalez and Mari and Molly were singled out immediately for being massive threats and "Parvati 2.0" which absolutely comes from Probst reducing to Parvati's gameplay to "she flirted with the men and then voted them out." Plenty of people have earned just as much of a target on their backs, but for some reason there's a repeated fear of what a woman can do on Day 39 that starts on like Day 6. We also saw this with Elaine almost getting booted first this season because "if she makes it to the end she'll sweep the Jury" which is laughably dense logic to have during the premiere. We've also seen repeated instances of "male/female are a POWER DUO and we are...... going to weaken the guy by taking out the girl :3" This was the Chelsea vote this season, the Liz vote in Kaoh Rong, the Elyse vote in South Pacific, and sooooo many more in between. The players have conditioned themselves to believe that smart women are only harmful and never beneficial, whereas even a shifty dude is often kept around because "he's an asset in Challenges," the logic that saved Dean early on despite the fact that he was embarrassingly bad at anything physical and mental. Despite alpha males continuing to win year after year after year, we continue to hear about the dread all girls alliance and Parvati 2.0s and never about the Ben 2.0s or the Boston Robs or literally any other successful male archetype.

AND this doesn't even bring us into the bastardized format of the show now. We moved from a F2 to F3 because Jeff was upset about players like Terry getting axed right before the FTC and getting "robbed." The F4 fire-making twist was introduced because Jeff was upset about players David and Spencer and Malcolm and Ozzy getting axed right before the FTC for being too threatening and getting "robbed." There used to be a level of finesse needed to minimize your threat level and get people to not take you out before the FTC, a level of finesse that many of Probst's favorites lacked. Because of this, Jeff has decided to reward their gameplay by completely breaking the format to favor the in-your-face, alpha male type of gameplay. Idols and Advantages are rehidden immediately after they're played, creating a revolving door type of effect where the same players can and have become immune over and over again. Twists like Redemption Island and the Edge of Extinction were literally created to give people like Russell Hantz and Boston Rob and Joe Anglim a second chance if they were ever booted. And even with all of these changes to the endgame, Idols can still be played at F5. We're at a point now where you can play Survivor with the subtlety of a foghorn, play an Idol at F5, win your way through F4 either by means of Immunity or fire, and then win Survivor because of how much you've "overcome" or because of how flashy your game was. There are fewer consequences for playing recklessly. Camp dynamics create a dynamic where it's more difficult for women to leave camp, leaving men to more often find Idols an Advantages and thus a free ticket to the F4, and then these men can just put on a show and win $1,000,000. We saw Michele "play like a girl" and win through her social game, and as a result Probst completely changed the format of the show where you can now "play like a guy" and win year after year after year like Adam and Ben and Wendell and Nick.

And again, it does matter when the statistics have become frighteningly one-sided. It does matter when the show is literally preaching women empowerment while still operating in a way that fundamentally rewards male players. Just because you're content with the outcomes since the players you root for do well in this format doesn't mean you should stick your fingers in your ears and tune out what's right in front of you.

The last part is true as could be. Janet was explicitly taken out at 5 because she was the best fire-maker and the Jury loved her. The whole theme of the finale was "if Janet makes it to the end we're ****ed, so we need to nullify her Idol" which is still a laughably stupid concept. Even when we do get a woman who can win under this F4 fire-making format, she's not even allowed to get there because of an IDOL NULLIFIER that was literally won through the flip of a coin under the pretense of "teaching Dean a lesson about Jury management." This entire franchise has become a comedy of errors.
I have to just agree to disagree with a lot because I fully disagree with so much of this but cba to reply to everything. Maybe I'll make a bigger post at another time but I'll just say a few things:

"Twists like Redemption Island and the Edge of Extinction were literally created to give people like Russell Hantz and Boston Rob and Joe Anglim a second chance if they were ever booted."
- Is this not sexist thinking when in reality the women can easily win any of the challenges they put out there? :shrug:

"We also saw this with Elaine almost getting booted first this season because "if she makes it to the end she'll sweep the Jury" which is laughably dense logic to have during the premiere."
- This had absolutely nothing to do with her gender and absolutely everything to do with her likable personality & her story coming in.

"The players have conditioned themselves to believe that smart women are only harmful and never beneficial, whereas even a shifty dude is often kept around because "he's an asset in Challenges," the logic that saved Dean early on despite the fact that he was embarrassingly bad at anything physical and mental."
- This is just not true & you're looking at it with tunnel vision of what you want to see as "inherent sexism within the game" when in reality a lot of the females that were viewed as smart & voted off in current and past seasons just simply weren't subtle enough in trying to not look smart with the cast. The same subtlety that Tommy showed when he took a back seat a lot and tried to not look threatening - he let Lauren look like the mastermind because she was more out there and literally willing to show how smart & powerful she was in the game compared to Tommy who downplayed a lot to a lot of people. Sandra is an excellent example of a subtle "smart" player that makes herself look like a goat when she is very aware of the game and how to get through and get the votes in the end. As she was then awarded for it twice. She is a woman.

"Women like Gonzalez and Mari and Molly were singled out immediately for being massive threats and "Parvati 2.0" which absolutely comes from Probst reducing to Parvati's gameplay to "she flirted with the men and then voted them out." Plenty of people have earned just as much of a target on their backs, but for some reason there's a repeated fear of what a woman can do on Day 39 that starts on like Day 6."
- This doesn't just happen to women. Men are just more likely to be seen as a benefit in challenges based on their performances OR their muscular build and therefore are kept around a lot of times in the early couple days. And then the physically fit men that can win challenges are constantly viewed as immediate threats at the merge and compared to "Ozzy 2.0" & "Joe Anglim 2.0" and typically get voted off one of the first few times they don't win immunity. But you probably have no problem when it comes to that strategizing against a physical man. Anyway, comparisons are made, people are voted out for the comparisons that are seen as crucial to take out in order to win. Nothing groundbreaking. Nothing about gender. :idc:

[JerseyWins]

Also from the ranking thread to further prove the blinders you have towards seeing anything anti-female related that isn't really there:
18. Dean (Never passed up an opportunity to target a woman, exclusively aligned himself with straight white men, unironically called women of color goats despite being a complete dumbass of a goat himself
1) He was trying to keep strong physical threats in the game to save himself from the "inherent sexism" within the game that is targeting all the physical men at merge. :joker: Except he actually thought of Elizabeth in the same light. It wasn't just men. It was physical threats he was trying to get through with as long as possible. Tommy didn't win anything but he might've performed well since the beginning to group him in as well :shrug:
2) Which yeah he didn't align with just straight men, he even mentioned a F2 with Elizabeth in FTC and included her in trying to protect in the game. Weren't his couple of main allies: Chelsea, Tommy, Aaron, Elizabeth? That's two women, 1 white man, 1 POC man
3) No offense but they... were goats lol. It was Noura & Karishma? :joker: But yeah so was Dean. He also saw himself as a goat but thought he was moreso making himself look that way and could actually win in the end. On finale night he said something like "from goat to ... *listed his immunity necklace, idol, nullifier*" thinking he was suddenly not a goat after turning it up with advantages & a big challenge win.

Anyway, that entire "Dean is a sexist dumbass" reasoning was trying to find something anti-female that wasn't actually there which is exactly what the above post is as well.

[Macie Lightfoot]

- Is this not sexist thinking when in reality the women can easily win any of the challenges they put out there? :shrug:

These are twists that were literally introduced for specific purposes and if you are in denial of that then you're just blind. Redemption Island was crafted as a built-in second chance for Rob and Russell, and Edge of Extinction was created so that Joe could instantly propel himself back from the dead and into the final with one Challenge win.

- This had absolutely nothing to do with her gender and absolutely everything to do with her likable personality & her story coming in.

Again, my point is that for some reason it's the women who are instantly pegged as "we can't possibly let them get to the end because they'll win" threats, and it's laughably dense for this to repeatedly happen within the first six days of the game.

- This is just not true & you're looking at it with tunnel vision of what you want to see as "inherent sexism within the game" when in reality a lot of the females that were viewed as smart & voted off in current and past seasons just simply weren't subtle enough in trying to not look smart with the cast. The same subtlety that Tommy showed when he took a back seat a lot and tried to not look threatening - he let Lauren look like the mastermind because she was more out there and literally willing to show how smart & powerful she was in the game compared to Tommy who downplayed a lot to a lot of people. Sandra is an excellent example of a subtle "smart" player that makes herself look like a goat when she is very aware of the game and how to get through and get the votes in the end. As she was then awarded for it twice. She is a woman.

I'd actually go down a different path and say that it's another symptom of BIG MOVEZ culture because the players immediately freak out about Day 39 threats the second they hit the beach. When the vote comes down to Dean and Chelsea, almost every group of players in this current era keeps Dean because he brings "physical strength" and everyone assumes that it will be easier to get him out later rather than round up the numbers to get out Chelsea. The logic is actually really ****ing stupid because these people just proved that it's not difficult to round up the numbers to get out Chelsea since, hello, they literally just did that. We've seen it with Dean/Chelsea, with Taylor/Figgy, with Peter/Liz, with Joaquin/So, with Ozzy/Elyse, etc. The only instance in recent memory where the roles were reversed was Tommy/Lauren because there was that entire period of time after the swap and early merge where Tommy was repeatedly named as a target to weaken Lauren, but even then the cast failed to deliver on that one.

Sexism/implicit gender bias in Survivor isn't an all-or-nothing matter either. Citing Sandra winning twice in the previous decade, long before the game was littered with Idols and Nullifiers and Advantages and Fire-Making twists, doesn't negate the current gender imbalance of successful men compared to successful women.

- This doesn't just happen to women. Men are just more likely to be seen as a benefit in challenges based on their performances OR their muscular build and therefore are kept around a lot of times in the early couple days. And then the physically fit men that can win challenges are constantly viewed as immediate threats at the merge and compared to "Ozzy 2.0" & "Joe Anglim 2.0" and typically get voted off one of the first few times they don't win immunity. But you probably have no problem when it comes to that strategizing against a physical man. Anyway, comparisons are made, people are voted out for the comparisons that are seen as crucial to take out in order to win. Nothing groundbreaking. Nothing about gender. :idc:

Oh I think it's absolutely possible to acknowledge how ****ing stupid the "muscular guy = physical threat" fallacy is, especially when modern Challenges don't favor muscular men at all. Like practically every tribal Challenge is an agility obstacle course followed by a puzzle and practically every individual Challenge is endurance, and the real threats are the people with better strength/weight ratios. That being said, there's also a huge difference between a guy getting taken out for being a physical threat and a girl getting taken out for ~being the next Parvati~. Physical Challenges are a cornerstone in every season of Survivor; someone playing "like Parvati" is not. Molly's entire boot episode was multiple people proclaiming her to be Parvati 2.0 and I still don't even know what they mean by that.

[Jigs]

Many "threatening" women have been voted off early, yes, but what about David Samson? Garrett Adelstein? Jason Linden? Garrett was booted for his physical prowess when they could've ousted J'Tia. Jason from this season was also booted over Lauren.

In a lot of ways, women are more powerful than men at Survivor because the Spencer Bledsoes of the world are very transparent whereas the Parvati Shallows will mist you right up until the F4 when they win immunity and you realise they made it to the FTC and you're screwed.

Of course that doesn't excuse people like Mari Takahashi randomly being voted out for being a threat, or Molly Byman getting blindsided because the mere thought that she may potentially run the game at some point was too much for the rest of her tribe. But other women have had roles in these blindsides too. People like Molly and Mari were not ousted by Men Only clubs. Castaways like So Kim were blindsided early in an instance where another powerful woman led the charge (Carolyn).

Ultimately, I know the statistics of women reaching the FTC and winning pale in comparison to the male castaways we've had, but people like Kim, Denise, Natalie Anderson and ofc Parvati have managed to be successful even when they were painted as huge strategic threats OR after a long trajectory of adversity where they could've easily been voted out at any time (Denise is the biggest example of this).

I agree with what you said about the F4 firemaking twist and the EOE twist being put in place to prevent Probst's favourites from being robbed. However, to claim that it is inbuilt for the purpose of only benefiting men is not only untrue but kinda a discredit to women on your part for assuming they don't also have an ability to make fire or win a challenge????????

[JerseyWins]

Many "threatening" women have been voted off early, yes, but what about David Samson? Garrett Adelstein? Jason Linden? Garrett was booted for his physical prowess when they could've ousted J'Tia. Jason from this season was also booted over Lauren.

In a lot of ways, women are more powerful than men at Survivor because the Spencer Bledsoes of the world are very transparent whereas the Parvati Shallows will mist you right up until the F4 when they win immunity and you realise they made it to the FTC and you're screwed.

Of course that doesn't excuse people like Mari Takahashi randomly being voted out for being a threat, or Molly Byman getting blindsided because the mere thought that she may potentially run the game at some point was too much for the rest of her tribe. But other women have had roles in these blindsides too. People like Molly and Mari were not ousted by Men Only clubs. Castaways like So Kim were blindsided early in an instance where another powerful woman led the charge (Carolyn).

Ultimately, I know the statistics of women reaching the FTC and winning pale in comparison to the male castaways we've had, but people like Kim, Denise, Natalie Anderson and ofc Parvati have managed to be successful even when they were painted as huge strategic threats OR after a long trajectory of adversity where they could've easily been voted out at any time (Denise is the biggest example of this).

I agree with what you said about the F4 firemaking twist and the EOE twist being put in place to prevent Probst's favourites from being robbed. However, to claim that it is inbuilt for the purpose of only benefiting men is not only untrue but kinda a discredit to women on your part for assuming they don't also have an ability to make fire or win a challenge????????
Yup, all of this

[Macie Lightfoot]

Many "threatening" women have been voted off early, yes, but what about David Samson? Garrett Adelstein? Jason Linden? Garrett was booted for his physical prowess when they could've ousted J'Tia. Jason from this season was also booted over Lauren.

None of those people you mentioned were voted off explicitly because "if they make it to Day 39 they WILL win" which kind of was my point. The only time in recent history that a man was targeted immediately for being an end-game threat was David going after Garrett in the Cagayan premiere, and everyone collectively thought that was stupid and went against David instead.

Ultimately, I know the statistics of women reaching the FTC and winning pale in comparison to the male castaways we've had, but people like Kim, Denise, Natalie Anderson and ofc Parvati have managed to be successful even when they were painted as huge strategic threats OR after a long trajectory of adversity where they could've easily been voted out at any time (Denise is the biggest example of this).

Three of these women you mentioned won against other women in the FTC so it was going to be a woman winning either way lol. But then you get instances where The Way Women Should Play The Game leads to them being held to a different standard and then receive more vitriol from the Jury and fewer votes. Especially if it's an older woman who fills the mother role, then forget about it. Men play a cutthroat game and they're praised for it, but a middle-aged woman plays a similarly cutthroat game and they receive backlash because That's Not How A Mother Should Play Survivor. You have someone like Rick Devens cry at multiple Tribal Councils because his own actions and abrasive behavior led him to being on the bottom, and the Jury eats it up and is chomping at the bit to vote for him. His crying is seen as ~endearing~ because he cares about the game so much or something. Julie then cries and has a breakdown at Tribal Council because her alliance left her out of a vote and then she's seen as hysterical, emotional, and someone no "self-respecting" Jury could ever vote for.

This largely is a bigger issue with societal gender bias that seeps into the game, but then the show doubles down on it by creating advantages and twists are are designed to help a certain type of player and then we end up in a situation like now, where we've had an 8-2 male/female split of the past winners and the last five FTCs have only had two votes cast for a woman to win.

I agree with what you said about the F4 firemaking twist and the EOE twist being put in place to prevent Probst's favourites from being robbed. However, to claim that it is inbuilt for the purpose of only benefiting men is not only untrue but kinda a discredit to women on your part for assuming they don't also have an ability to make fire or win a challenge????????

The benefit of fire-making isn't because men make fire than woman. The benefit is that the players that play loud, brash, in-your-face style of games (traditionally male players that Probst loves) don't actually have to have any finesse to survive a vote or actually play Survivor the way it was originally designed to be played. Considering that you can still play an Idol at F5 and then win your way through F4, you can conceivably never actually have to be in the majority or have a good social standing with anyone. Ben was all alone as early as F7 in HHH, but then he was able to play an Idol for three TCs in a row and then make fire and all of the sudden he's in a position to win a million dollars. Survivor used to be a game that required actual skill with social skills and tribal politicking, but now it's just a glorified scavenger hunt that does benefit the men since they are traditionally the hunters and gatherers around camp and are thus in a better position to find that random blue piece of string in the jungle that doubles as a Super Duper Immunity Idol while women are left to tend to matters around camp.

[Jigs]

For what it's worth, I just remember how Dawn was treated by the jury in Caramoan and I thought she played an excellent game and deserved votes but the jury just did not see that in her future at all.

I didn't watch HHH but I'm slightly familiar with Ben's game and yeah, that's **** tbh. It was bad before, but I think that HHH is the season when Survivor became truly ridiculous with the constant toying of the format.

[JerseyWins]

Randomly just skim-rewatched the Survivor finale to kill time before going out and wow... it's definitely one of the best I've seen, still keeps all of its greatness on rewatch.

Dean closes out the first 3-4 commercial breaks STRONG with really excellent charismatic confessionals and all. The entire 10 minutes after Noura's F4 immunity win is just ****ing hilarious and while Dean had the majority of the rest of the big highlights for me, Noura blabbing in those 10 minutes is for suuuuure the best part of the finale :joker: Lauren/Tommy/Dean all do their part too in different ways.

And Dean just steals the show in the FTC period. WHEW this is a finale! Shame it's for such a mediocre overall season lol

[Headie]

https://twitter.com/texanbluegrass/status/1211652492909371392

I saw a thread on Sucks that said Sandra's winning games probably wouldn't even get any votes in modern Survivor because that type of gameplay is so snubbed nowadays.

[Calderyon]

I do admit it would be nice to see Survivor get back to it's roots, no hidden immunities, no hidden advantages, no clues to anything. And no twists.

Only tribal and individual immunities via challenge wins, reward challenges and everything else is social interaction between contestants.