Shamima Begum : UK Supreme Court say no to her appeal

[arista]

The Supreme Court
feels the Home Secretary, at that time
was correct.


She has no British Citizen, at this point.
LBC 10 AM show Left Winger is debating this now,
He says she should not have citizenship stripped.



Just was live on Both news Channels


Marry an Isis Killer
you pay the price

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/feb/26/shamima-begum-cannot-return-to-uk-to-fight-for-citizenship-court-rules

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/breaking-isis-bride-shamima-begum-23569656

[Zizu]

I’m glad ... I just couldn’t take to her at all and I’m usually such a forgiving person .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Nicky91]

go live on the ocean then

[arista]

go live on the ocean then


What are you on about?

[Nicky91]

What are you on about?

she is stateless, so she can't live in any country

[Denver]

she is stateless, so she can't live in any country

She can take up Dutch citizenship they will love her there

[Nicky91]

She can take up Dutch citizenship they will love her there

which is why i will vote alongside my parents PVV and Wilders for our new PM, stronger anti-muslim policies

[Denver]

which is why i will vote alongside my parents PVV and Wilders for our new PM, stronger anti-muslim policies

So basically you are saying you racist and hate Muslims?

[joeysteele]

This is the right decision in my view.

[Nicky91]

So basically you are saying you racist and hate Muslims?

no but we don't have anymore place for her here, for anyone else who wants to enter, we are already filled up with enough refugees

maybe France has place for her

[hijaxers]

Really pleased she lost her appeal , i really have no sympathy at all with this woman.

[bots]

i'm really pleased with the outcome, but i thought it would fall the other way

[Nicky91]

i'm really pleased with the outcome, but i thought it would fall the other way

yes one less terrorist in UK

very good news

[arista]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EvKh3MvXUAMKJZU?format=jpg&name=small

[rusticgal]

She can take up Dutch citizenship they will love her there



Isnt her husband Dutch?

[user104658]

Story is the same as it always has been; raised in Britain, radicalised in Britain, now insisting she isn't our problem. Pathetic. Good luck to the UK trying to deport criminals and terrorists back to their country of origin after this... They have set precedent. Their home country can just say "nah nothing to do with us". Right?

[rusticgal]

i'm really pleased with the outcome, but i thought it would fall the other way


Knowing how soft we can be in this country...

[user104658]

Knowing how soft we can be in this country...This is a demonstration of exactly how soft this country is. She was educated and radicalised in the UK, and she is the UK's mess to clean up. Are we going to? No we're going to wash our hands of it. Soft, pathetic, cowardly, shirkers of responsibility. Sums us up quite well on this one, I think.

Oh and to double down on the cowardice - the only reason it was ever denied was to appease the outraged public. Truly shameful populist leadership.

[caprimint]

Thank ****ing god for this!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Oliver_W]

Story is the same as it always has been; raised in Britain, radicalised in Britain, now insisting she isn't our problem. Pathetic. Good luck to the UK trying to deport criminals and terrorists back to their country of origin after this... They have set precedent. Their home country can just say "nah nothing to do with us". Right?

To be fair this particular decision just means she can't come here to fight her case for citizenship, our hands aren't washed of her yet!

[Fetch The Bolt Cutters]

go live on the ocean then

SCREAMING

[arista]

[Can I come home, pretty please?... I would love to help
others': New look jihadi bride Shamima Begum says she
was a 'dumb kid' when she fled to Syria aged 15 - but insists
she doesn't need to be rehabilitated
Shamima Begum, 21, has insisted that she does not
need to be rehabilitated
Former East London schoolgirl speaking during
interview at al-Roj prison camp
Begum, who left Britain to join IS in 2015,
remains stripped of her citizenship]


https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/06/14/21/44220487-9685909-image-a-67_1623703184896.jpg
[Shamima Begum, 21, has insisted she does
not need to be rehabilitated during an
interview at al-Roj prison camp in Syria
(pictured with journalist Andrew Drury)]

[arista]

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/06/14/21/44220531-9685909-image-a-68_1623703190492.jpg


Yes now aged 21
But Not Legal to return to the UK


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9685909/Shamima-Begum-says-dumb-kid-fled-Syria-aged-15.html

[Oliver_W]

Tell her to get her walking shoes and a dingy.

[user104658]

If she genuinely no longer has terrorist sympathies and wants to work towards helping other young girls at risk of radicalisation... what possible reason is there to not at least explore that as an option? Obviously she would need to be assessed to ensure that it's genuine and not simply a ruse to get back into the country.

As always I struggle with this story - she was a child when she was radicalised and went off to become an ISIS bride, and has become a press poster-child and propaganda piece. I feel like there's very little examination of the actual individual situation at all, simply because it became such a high-profile tabloid thing, and that doesn't sit right.

Would be different if she's actually engaged in violence or in planning terrorist activity but she was essentially a dumb 15 year old who was tricked, seduced away from home, raped and impregnated. It's a mess and the UK's refusal to engage is, ultimately, ridiculously irresponsible.

[UserSince2005]

Shes hot now, she deserves a second chance.

[arista]

Shes hot now, she deserves a second chance.



No it does not work like that.



The Netflix Documentary maker
was on Ch5HD AM Live.
He said she cried alot
while he interviewed her

[bots]

Yeah, that's fine, she is an attractive terrorist now, that make it ok

[Oliver_W]

She didn't do some stupid tweets or sneak into the wine cellar ... she went to join a terrorist death cult. Two of these are things that dumb kids do, one is something a terrorist does.

I don't trust that she "doesn't need" rehabilitation, especially as she's previously said she doesn't regret her actions.

[user104658]

She didn't do some stupid tweets or sneak into the wine cellar ... she went to join a terrorist death cult. Two of these are things that dumb kids do, one is something a terrorist does.

I don't trust that she "doesn't need" rehabilitation, especially as she's previously said she doesn't regret her actions.

The hard to swallow truth is that it IS the same though. Teenagers are susceptible to suggestion and easily drawn into a group mentality and thus they are easily - much, much more easily than we would comfortably like to believe - drawn into extreme ideologies by adults with an agenda.

"This couldn't happen to my kid/brother/sister/niece/nephew because..." NO. You are plainly wrong, yes it could if you don't pay attention, it is a fundamental truth of adolescent psychology and we see it in "smaller ways" every single day. Just have a glance at social media. Kids absolutely all over it spouting an absolute tonne of extreme, poorly thought out, parroted rhetoric that may seem different to "scary islamic extremism" but it actually isn't. It's the same thing. The risks are different. The mechanism is IDENTICAL.

Believing anything else is taking our eye off the ball and much, MUCH more dangerous than accepting that some of these kids were simply let down, brainwashed, abused and then abandonned.

15 is a child. She was failed by her parents, failed by this country, then further abused by other adults... the whole thing is gross. It'd be gross even if she had been an active combatant - which she was not, she was effectively a sex slave and womb.

The ONLY question should be, "is she currently dangerous". Which to be frank we simply don't know because people are too scared of adverse public opinion to do the right thing and check.

[Tom4784]

Hypothetical situation time.

A radicalised terrorist sympathiser comes to Britain from another country to support a terrorist organisation, the organisation is defeated and we try to deport the sympathiser back to their home country, only for that country to tell us they've stripped her of her citizenship and she's no longer their problem, but ours'. How outraged would the public be about that situation? The answer is very outraged. So, if that's the case, why is it okay for us to force other countries to deal with our criminals? It is hypocrisy.

I have no sympathy for this woman, but we as a country cannot make up the rules as we please. Not when we'd hate for the shoe to be on the other foot. We risk setting a precedent that could ultimately see other countries refuse deportations from us, and all to appeal to a populist sense of bloodlust.

The right thing to do would be to not force our problems on other countries and have her stand trial in the UK for her crimes. Anything else makes us hypocrites.

[bots]

plenty other countries make up the rules to suit themselves it's nothing unique, and I dont think anyone cares enough to take a stand on this particular example

[Tom4784]

plenty other countries make up the rules to suit themselves it's nothing unique, and I dont think anyone cares enough to take a stand on this particular example

You say that now, but I'm guessing you'd be up in arms if the shoe was on the other foot.

Also being all like 'other countries are hypocritical because I say so, so that means we should lower ourselves to be hypocrites too.' Very odd logic.

[The Slim Reaper]

plenty other countries make up the rules to suit themselves it's nothing unique, and I dont think anyone cares enough to take a stand on this particular example

As a member of the "send them back to the first safe country they arrived in" in the illegal migrant thread, I thought you might be interested to know that since brexit, countries have refused to take anyone from us, because we're out of the agreement now, so we're getting more asylum seekers here than we ever would have without brexit. I'm sure this is what Arista voted for :laugh:

[bots]

As a member of the "send them back to the first safe country they arrived in" in the illegal migrant thread, I thought you might be interested to know that since brexit, countries have refused to take anyone from us, because we're out of the agreement now, so we're getting more asylum seekers here than we ever would have without brexit. I'm sure this is what Arista voted for :laugh:

what goes around comes around. You can bet that won't be highlighted :laugh:

[user104658]

plenty other countries make up the rules to suit themselves it's nothing unique, and I dont think anyone cares enough to take a stand on this particular example

Do you know what I say to my daughter when she tries the "but all the other kids were doing it" excuse?

" **** off you little ****, that is an absolutely ****ing abysmal excuse you didn't think that **** through one little bit, did you? Get to your room and I don't want to hear one ****ing peep from you until you've learned how to dodge responsibility PROPERLY."

That's what I say.

[Ammi]

Do you know what I say to my daughter when she tries the "but all the other kids were doing it" excuse?

" **** off you little ****, that is an absolutely ****ing abysmal excuse you didn't think that **** through one little bit, did you? Get to your room and I don't want to hear one ****ing peep from you until you've learned how to dodge responsibility PROPERLY."

That's what I say.

…I’m not down with the kids like you, I would always just say….okay, that’s cool…I’ll just talk to their mom and see how that works, then…

[user104658]

…I’m not down with the kids like you, I would always just say….okay, that’s cool…I’ll just talk to their mom and see how that works, then…

My daughter has an inherent disregard for adults and lack of respect for authority figures. I don't know where she gets it from honestly.

[Oliver_W]

My daughter has an inherent disregard for adults and lack of respect for authority figures. I don't know where she gets it from honestly.

Eh, authority figures are mostly wankers anyway, so I see her point :dance:

[Elliot]

Why would anyone want to come to this ****hole anyway if they had options lmao

[Crimson Dynamo]

Why would anyone want to come to this ****hole anyway if they had options lmao

like what country do you think is better?

[bots]

Do you know what I say to my daughter when she tries the "but all the other kids were doing it" excuse?

" **** off you little ****, that is an absolutely ****ing abysmal excuse you didn't think that **** through one little bit, did you? Get to your room and I don't want to hear one ****ing peep from you until you've learned how to dodge responsibility PROPERLY."

That's what I say.

And then you woke up :joker:

[arista]

https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/1404546363409448963/_OjDOIeg?format=jpg&name=small

[Jordan.]

Skinny minny! I'm ready to forgive.

[Swan]

Why would anyone want to come to this ****hole anyway if they had options lmao

Im far from patriotic but as much as you what to believe this country is a terrible place to live, the truth is, it isn't whatsoever. It's up their with the top countries in the world to live actually.

[arista]

1405166142826729478

[Oliver_W]

1405166142826729478

Well it's not a ridiculous comparison, young people involved in terrorism aren't overly dissimilar to Hitler Youth.

[Saph]

Shes hot now, she deserves a second chance.

No it does not work like that.



:skull:

[Saph]

tbf she kinda shot herself in the foot with her "I deserve sympathy" video

[DouglasS]

Why would anyone want to come to this ****hole anyway if they had options lmao

Maybe you should move to Syria and see how long you last :shrug:

We have it really good here and you are sounding a bit spoilt / entitled - you are so privileged to live in this country


About Shamima: good leave her there!!!!! The U.K. does not want her

[Nicky91]

poor girl :sad:


this sort of trouble wouldn't have been if she wanted asylum in my nation

[user104658]

Well it's not a ridiculous comparison, young people involved in terrorism aren't overly dissimilar to Hitler Youth.


They’re not, and his point was that back at the end of WW2 we understood that the teenagers in the Hitler youth were just dumb kids who had been brainwashed by adults and we allowed them the chance at rehabilitation and re-education.

Nowadays the attitude is “boooo 16 is old enough to take responsibility hang em all”.

But let’s call it like it is here - she’d get more sympathy if she looked like Hitler youth. We all know that.

[user104658]

tbf she kinda shot herself in the foot with her "I deserve sympathy" video


She does deserve sympathy but yeah people asking for it themselves is always off putting.

Very on-brand GenZ, though.

[Oliver_W]

But let’s call it like it is here - she’d get more sympathy if she looked like Hitler youth. We all know that.

As shown by all the sympathy Dylan Roof got?

[Livia]

Samantha Lewthwaite didn't get a sympathetic hearing from the public and she's white. I can't imagine anyone wanting her back here.

[Tom4784]

They’re not, and his point was that back at the end of WW2 we understood that the teenagers in the Hitler youth were just dumb kids who had been brainwashed by adults and we allowed them the chance at rehabilitation and re-education.

Nowadays the attitude is “boooo 16 is old enough to take responsibility hang em all”.

But let’s call it like it is here - she’d get more sympathy if she looked like Hitler youth. We all know that.

Pretty much, it's all about engaging in a bit of armchair bloodlust, really, especially when the target isn't white. She definitely would get more sympathy if she was white (although how much more, who could say?)

I don't know whether rehabilitation is possible, but either way, she should be brought back to face trial for her crimes. All we've done in stripping her citizenship is make her another country's problem and you would never hear the end of it if another country did that to us.

[Ammi]

‘Overwhelming evidence’ Shamima Begum was victim of trafficking, court hears…


There is “overwhelming evidence” that Shamima Begum was a victim of trafficking when she left the UK, a court has heard.

Ms Begum was 15 when she and two other east London schoolgirls travelled to Syria to join the so-called Islamic State group in February 2015.

Her British citizenship was revoked on national security grounds shortly after she was found, nine months pregnant, in a Syrian refugee camp in February 2019.

Ms Begum, now 21, is challenging the Home Office’s decision to remove her British citizenship and has asked a specialist tribunal to consider whether she was a victim of trafficking when she travelled to Syria.

Her lawyers told the Special Immigration Appeals Commission (SIAC) at a hearing on Friday that the Home Office had a legal duty to investigate whether Ms Begum was a victim of trafficking when her citizenship was revoked.

Samantha Knights QC said that “the counter-terrorism unit had suspicions of coercion and control” at the time Ms Begum left the UK, which she argued “gives rise to the need to investigate the issue of trafficking”.


…full article…

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/overwhelming-evidence-shamima-begum-victim-104028416.html

[bots]

the problem that she has is that she did that TV interview where she showed zero remorse and clearly held the same views years later to the ones that led to her leaving the UK. That can't be taken back

[The Slim Reaper]

the problem that she has is that she did that TV interview where she showed zero remorse and clearly held the same views years later to the ones that led to her leaving the UK. That can't be taken back

She's still a relative kid though, bots. Regardless of anything else, she is still our responsibility.

[Liam-]

She was allowed to be groomed, brainwashed and radicalised on British soil, she was a child that was taken advantage of by extremists, whatever decision she made due to the brainwashing, she is our responsibility

[bots]

She's still a relative kid though, bots. Regardless of anything else, she is still our responsibility.

i don't want her back here, i freely admit that, but i do think its pretty dodgy for our government to say, not our problem, she can't come back. Given international law and the precedence it sets, it will come back to bite us at some point

[The Slim Reaper]

i don't want her back here, i freely admit that, but i do think its pretty dodgy for our government to say, not our problem, she can't come back. Given international law and the precedence it sets, it will come back to bite us at some point

I pretty much agree with you. It's about doing the right thing, even when it's not ideal

[user104658]

If she has genuinely completely changed her beliefs, which she claims is the case and appears to be the case, and can probably be verified rather easily by experts (she's a 21 year old who has had no formal education since 15 - not Natasha Romanoff) there's no rational reason to not allow her back into the country, and even to consider her worth as a possible asset against Islamic extremist trafficking and grooming.

I would feel differently if she had been an active combatant in ISIS but she was groomed as a "wife" (sex slave and baby producing machine) and kept in a camp.

I fully understand that the general public doesn't understand how brainwashing and grooming works, why teenagers (children) are especially vulnerable to it, and that even people who become genuinely dangerous because of it are still themselves victims in another sense...

...but that's why the general public's opinion shouldn't come into these decisions. But it does, time and time again, not because of safety, not because of science, but because of political populism.

[Tom4784]

If she has genuinely completely changed her beliefs, which she claims is the case and appears to be the case, and can probably be verified rather easily by experts (she's a 21 year old who has had no formal education since 15 - not Natasha Romanoff) there's no rational reason to not allow her back into the country, and even to consider her worth as a possible asset against Islamic extremist trafficking and grooming.

I would feel differently if she had been an active combatant in ISIS but she was groomed as a "wife" (sex slave and baby producing machine) and kept in a camp.

I fully understand that the general public doesn't understand how brainwashing and grooming works, why teenagers (children) are especially vulnerable to it, and that even people who become genuinely dangerous because of it are still themselves victims in another sense...

...but that's why the general public's opinion shouldn't come into these decisions. But it does, time and time again, not because of safety, not because of science, but because of political populism.

Yup, common sense and morality doesn't come into it. It's just all about appealing to people's lowest vindictive instincts. I'll keep saying it until the end of time but if this situation was reversed and we couldn't deport a terrorist supporter because their country stripped them of their citizenship then the same people who support it in Begum's case would be screaming bloody murder if the shoe was on the other foot.

Regardless of anything else, we can't strip someone of their citizenship, especially when their only other tie to a country is through a husband to which she was trafficked into a marriage in which she was basically a sex slave.

Let her come back, have her face a trial, have her serve out her sentence and try to deprogram any radicalism. Not taking responsibility is a childish response.

[user104658]

Yup, common sense and morality doesn't come into it. It's just all about appealing to people's lowest vindictive instincts. I'll keep saying it until the end of time but if this situation was reversed and we couldn't deport a terrorist supporter because their country stripped them of their citizenship then the same people who support it in Begum's case would be screaming bloody murder if the shoe was on the other foot.

Regardless of anything else, we can't strip someone of their citizenship, especially when their only other tie to a country is through a husband to which she was trafficked into a marriage in which she was basically a sex slave.

Let her come back, have her face a trial, have her serve out her sentence and try to deprogram any radicalism. Not taking responsibility is a childish response.

It is and when "the voters won't like it" starts dictating the outcome of diplomatic and legal decisions, the drawbacks of democracy really start coming into focus. The Internet plays a part too, to be honest. A couple of decades ago she'd have been brought back, questioned and given a prison sentence and 99% of the public wouldn't have batted an eye... or probably have heard about it at all.

[arista]

She is going Live on GMBHD itv
at around 7:15AM From a Syria Live link.

[arista]

Live now on GMBHD itv


Now saying she was groomed
and did not want to hurt anyone?
Saying she made a mistake.


Now saying she did know about the Manchester Bombing
when she spoke about it,
she said at that time she spoke before
she had no internet.

She is now in a better Syria Camp.

[arista]

1438025884049543171

[Beso]

She's still a relative kid though, bots. Regardless of anything else, she is still our responsibility.

She should have been her parents responsibility...who knows, maybe she was!

[arista]

1438028497868500994

[Beso]

Yup, common sense and morality doesn't come into it. It's just all about appealing to people's lowest vindictive instincts. I'll keep saying it until the end of time but if this situation was reversed and we couldn't deport a terrorist supporter because their country stripped them of their citizenship then the same people who support it in Begum's case would be screaming bloody murder if the shoe was on the other foot.

Regardless of anything else, we can't strip someone of their citizenship, especially when their only other tie to a country is through a husband to which she was trafficked into a marriage in which she was basically a sex slave.

Let her come back, have her face a trial, have her serve out her sentence and try to deprogram any radicalism. Not taking responsibility is a childish response.

So a groomed and sex trafficked young girl should face trial for crimes whilst enduring all that..

That's a bit cruel and sadistic is it not?

[arista]

She says she would go to a UK Prison
if a UK Judge tells her.

[arista]

GMBHD itv have kept the Live link to Syria on
taking 2 commercial breaks

[MTVN]

Bizarre interview. Still seems totally unrepentant tbh - said at one point she did 'nothing wrong' - and almost incapable of any emotion at all apart from self pity

[bots]

i don't know what to make of her which is unusual as I usually get a feel for the person, but I think she is emotionally flat

[Oliver_W]

Bizarre interview. Still seems totally unrepentant tbh - said at one point she did 'nothing wrong' - and almost incapable of any emotion at all apart from self pity

Yeah it's always been pretty clear she has no regrets. If she is ever allowed back, no way should she be anywhere but an institution.

[arista]

i don't know what to make of her which is unusual as I usually get a feel for the person, but I think she is emotionally flat



Yes the Health Secretary
who was Home Secretary
says he viewed information on her
that blocks her.

[thesheriff443]

She is a stone cold killer
I believe she killed her own babies
She can come back in a box

[user104658]

i don't know what to make of her which is unusual as I usually get a feel for the person, but I think she is emotionally flat

Being emotionally flat is usually caused by trauma. Situation is what it always has been; we allowed a child to be groomed online, taken in by a cult, brainwashed, abused and impregnated and now we're like "lol not our fault". She should be brought back here and fully, properly assessed by professionals (not folk on Twitter with 3 C's at GCSE who are now suddenly self-declared body language experts). She MAY be dangerous, we don't know because she hasn't been assessed by professionals. Either way she's our responsibility.

[user104658]

She is a stone cold killer
I believe she killed her own babies
She can come back in a box

Honestly I doubt that, when you leave newborn babies in prison camps with no proper medical attention and an inexperienced teenage mother, I'd be more surprised if they DIDN'T die.

[thesheriff443]

Honestly I doubt that, when you leave newborn babies in prison camps with no proper medical attention and an inexperienced teenage mother, I'd be more surprised if they DIDN'T die.

I don’t share your opinion
Babies are being and have been born in remote parts of the world since the beginning of time with no medical facilities

She has the look of a cold blooded killer

[Zizu]

Sorry .. from what I seen and heard from her over the years ... I just don’t like her and I don’t believe a word she says


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[user104658]

I don’t share your opinion
Babies are being and have been born in remote parts of the world since the beginning of time with no medical facilities

Yeah but they're born into communities with generational knowledge of how to care for an infant in those circumstances, she grew up in the UK and had no support from professionals or family so likely absolutely no idea how to care for a baby. Infant deaths would be much higher in the UK if there weren't midwives/health visitors/older family members to give advice and support.

Also ... a lot of children born in remote/poverty-stricken areas, or pretty much anywhere before the mid 20th century, DID die very young.

She has the look of a cold blooded killer

That really means nothing; the first things you hear when someone turns out to be a serial killer is the neighbours saying "but they were always so nice and friendly!". True sociopaths are often charming.

[Niamh.]

Yeah but they're born into communities with generational knowledge of how to care for an infant in those circumstances, she grew up in the UK and had no support from professionals or family so likely absolutely no idea how to care for a baby. Infant deaths would be much higher in the UK if there weren't midwives/health visitors/older family members to give advice and support.



Also ... a lot of children born in remote/poverty-stricken areas, or pretty much anywhere before the mid 20th century, DID die very young.







That really means nothing; the first things you hear when someone turns out to be a serial killer is the neighbours saying "but they were always so nice and friendly!". True sociopaths are often charming.To me she looks dead behind the eyes, like someone who's had to shut off any emotions which would probably fit with her situation.

[thesheriff443]

Yeah but they're born into communities with generational knowledge of how to care for an infant in those circumstances, she grew up in the UK and had no support from professionals or family so likely absolutely no idea how to care for a baby. Infant deaths would be much higher in the UK if there weren't midwives/health visitors/older family members to give advice and support.

Also ... a lot of children born in remote/poverty-stricken areas, or pretty much anywhere before the mid 20th century, DID die very young.



That really means nothing; the first things you hear when someone turns out to be a serial killer is the neighbours saying "but they were always so nice and friendly!". True sociopaths are often charming.

Like I said I don’t with your opinion
She is a terrorist plain and simple
With no remorse

[thesheriff443]

To me she looks dead behind the eyes, like someone who's had to shut off any emotions which would probably fit with her situation.

So what now she is an innocent victim
Have you forgot she wouldn’t condemn those that did the Manchester bombing

[arista]

To me she looks dead behind the eyes, like someone who's had to shut off any emotions which would probably fit with her situation.


She is well
aware of the Anger in Manchester
against her.


She said in the interview, a few years back
when she basically said it was tit for tat,
she had no news feed.



Now, today she was saying all the right things
on Live GMBHD itv.

[arista]

1438028497868500994



Posting again

[user104658]

So what now she is an innocent victim
Have you forgot she wouldn’t condemn those that did the Manchester bombing


There’s a pretty big grey area between “innocent victim” and “terrorist” - anyway, the point is that the people who could actually figure this out (i.e. not us sat at home) haven’t even assessed her or engaged with it at all so we have no idea. It’s not about stating facts about her, it’s just about saying “it’s our responsibility to actually get to the facts”. I still say at the very least she could offer invaluable insight into how organisations like ISIS groom young people online, which is all useful in stopping it from happening.

As for not condemning the bombing, she was in a prison camp surrounded by Islamic extremists. You’d keep your mouth shut in that situation too. Again not saying we can definitely know her reasons - just that it’s very plausible.

[arista]

1438047183819902982

[Oliver_W]

To me she looks dead behind the eyes, like someone who's had to shut off any emotions which would probably fit with her situation.

To be fair she's always had those hollow and lifeless farm-cattle eyes.

[user104658]

"Sajid Javid says if we knew what he knew, we 'would have made exactly the same decision'."

Regardless of the situation, this tactic is bull****. Either full transparency or secrets. Not a half-way house where people can say "Well IF you know what I know THEN you would understand but I can't tell you what I'm talking about, you'll just have to trust me."

[joeysteele]

My feeling currently after the segment of her on the TV this morning.

Is she states, she knows she would have charges to answer here.
She knows she would be not in society here too.

Whatever Javid saw, then it must warrant being seen as crimes.
So I see no point in not having those charges tried in a court here against her.
Unless there's concern that what he saw may not be strong enough to make stick in LAW.

However too, on the other side of the coin.
She WILL know and have some knowledge firsthand of how the terrorism network is.
Which could possibly be important in the fight against terrorism.

From the interview, it was hard to work out whether she had much remorse or none.

I'm not sure that should be a reason to not have her tried and to answer charges here.
Rather than just in time in a camp as she is now.

Away from society, she could be questioned on everything from the grooming of her to the present and all she'd seen and learned and participated in too.

The LAW doesn't require remorse to be charged and tried in a court.
That comes after being in a custodial sentence.

No genuine remorse shown, no way out.
Is how it should be.

If however there are things she could have to answer for re terrorism, where charges can be brought, then she should be entitled to have her day in court too to answer whatever charges.

Possibly, she ought never to be allowed into society again.
Who knows.

So I'd now lean, (only just), to allow her return under the strictest security to have any charges made and heard In a trial in court.

[thesheriff443]

There’s a pretty big grey area between “innocent victim” and “terrorist” - anyway, the point is that the people who could actually figure this out (i.e. not us sat at home) haven’t even assessed her or engaged with it at all so we have no idea. It’s not about stating facts about her, it’s just about saying “it’s our responsibility to actually get to the facts”. I still say at the very least she could offer invaluable insight into how organisations like ISIS groom young people online, which is all useful in stopping it from happening.

As for not condemning the bombing, she was in a prison camp surrounded by Islamic extremists. You’d keep your mouth shut in that situation too. Again not saying we can definitely know her reasons - just that it’s very plausible.

No grey area
She knew right from wrong

And chose to fight for terrorists hence joining them

[arista]

She wants to go to a UK Court
and go to jail in the UK.

[Niamh.]

So what now she is an innocent victim
Have you forgot she wouldn’t condemn those that did the Manchester bombing

I never said any such thing, I was commenting on what she looked like and why she might look like that.

[user104658]

No grey area
She knew right from wrong

That's not how grooming works. You could argue you don't believe she was actually groomed, I suppose, but not that grooming doesn't exist.

And chose to fight for terrorists hence joining them

She was a non-combatant from everything we know about her time with ISIS; there's been no suggestion or indication at all that she's been directly involved in any violence. She chose to join them knowing that they were terrorists, yes. Although of course, part of the grooming process would be convincing people that they are "soldiers" or "freedom fighters" rather than terrorists.

[Alf]

She has more support than a person who just 2 years ago was an upstanding member of the community but now is to become a second class citizen for refusing untested, experimental medical treatment

That's where we're at.

[Kazanne]

Yeah, that's fine, she is an attractive terrorist now, that make it ok

:joker::joker: i know Bots, she looks 'hot' so lets all forgive her:joker:

[Kazanne]

She is a stone cold killer
I believe she killed her own babies
She can come back in a box

im not even convinced she had babies sheriff, I feel it was all for sympathy. How many is she supposed to have lost ?

[joeysteele]

I don't really see anyone advocating forgiving her.
I couldn't care what she looks like for starters.

However IF there are serious terrorism charges which could have her charged with..
We, the citizens of the UK should know them.

They should be put to her in a court.
If guilty of them and found to be, then she should be out of society,maybe for good.

That's not forgiveness, it's justice and punishment.

Furthermore if she has information, re terrorism, which could add to already held information,for our authorities, government and security services.
Then held in prison here is more than likely the better place for to have her.

It's for only those 2 issues, I now think she should be made to answer charges here in this Country.
We're never going to learn any more where she is at present in that camp are we?

[rusticgal]

She wants to go to a UK Court
and go to jail in the UK.


I bet she does...it will be one step back in the door and better conditions thyan she is probably in now.

[thesheriff443]

im not even cinvinced she had babies sheriff, I feel it was all for sympathy. How many is she supposed to have lost ?

3 absolute joke.

[arista]

I bet she does...it will be one step back in the door and better conditions than she is probably in now.


Yes TV in her prison room
she would like

[bots]

she isn't going to be tried in the uk because she is no longer a british citizen. Thats already been confirmed in court, so quite honestly, it's done and dusted, finished. Further pleading on tv programs isn't going to achieve anything

[Jordan.]

No question we MUST bring her home, no more baby deaths on our hands.

[arista]

she isn't going to be tried in the uk because she is no longer a british citizen. Thats already been confirmed in court, so quite honestly, it's done and dusted, finished. Further pleading on tv programs isn't going to achieve anything


Yes it was a First to have her Live
I am sure the BBC may try a Live link, as well.

[arista]

No question we MUST bring her home, no more baby deaths on our hands.

The Government says no.

[MTVN]

That's not how grooming works. You could argue you don't believe she was actually groomed, I suppose, but not that grooming doesn't exist.



She was a non-combatant from everything we know about her time with ISIS; there's been no suggestion or indication at all that she's been directly involved in any violence. She chose to join them knowing that they were terrorists, yes. Although of course, part of the grooming process would be convincing people that they are "soldiers" or "freedom fighters" rather than terrorists.

Well apparently she was involved in sewing suicide vests onto fighters including making it so that they couldn't be removed by the fighter themselves without the vest detonating

[MTVN]

Also reports she was a member of their 'moral police' and carried a rifle to enforce that but she denies that of course

[arista]

Well apparently she was involved in sewing suicide vests onto fighters including making it so that they couldn't be removed by the fighter themselves without the vest detonating


Yes ITV GMBHD Live asked her that
she said that is not true,

[rusticgal]

Yes ITV GMBHD Live asked her that
she said that is not true,


Well...I guess she would say that wouldn't she :smug:

[Tom4784]

Deleted Post

[Tom4784]

Deleted Post

[joeysteele]

So we continue to hypocritically force her to be another country's problem while the same gammons who advocate such **** would pop a blood vessel if another country forced their 'undesirables' onto us.

It's okay for us but not for anyone else. If there's one thing I hate about this country, it's the hypocritical arrogance.

As far as the rest of the World is concerned she is still more probably connected to the UK.

Bangladesh has said she is not of their State.

At this moment in time the argument still is in place of whose problem she is.
Her last registered place was the UK before she headed off to Syria.
Really, this is likely never to end until she is either tried, possibly here for any crimes we are saying she could be charged with.

Or until she does have another recognised State she can belong to and they either let her settle there or put her on trial for something too.
If we continue to dismiss having any connection to her now.

Sajid Javid was asked about her being Stateless.
He said she wasn't with the Bangladesh connection.
To which Madeley fired back, that Bangladesh disputes that and hasn't recognised that as the case.

So in effect she is seemingly Stateless.

[Zizu]

Why does she get so much media attention in the first place ??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[thesheriff443]

Well apparently she was involved in sewing suicide vests onto fighters including making it so that they couldn't be removed by the fighter themselves without the vest detonating

No Matt she was head of the sewing club making warm woolly jumpers for the fighters so when they were out murdering women and children they didn’t get cold

Heart of gold that girl

[user104658]

Why does she get so much media attention in the first place ??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


It’s more the other way around really. The reason her citizenship was stripped is BECAUSE she was a high-profile example. The story was big when they first left the country to go the the Middle East, so when she reappeared after the fall of ISIS it was given a tonne of press attention, and the government took unusual action essentially for PR reasons. If it hadn’t been a high-profile example in the press, she would have been brought back, jailed & questioned in the UK.

[Tom4784]

Deleted Post

[user104658]

Yup, She's just been made an example because it's good for the optics, basically. Completely hypocritical and unethical to leave someone stateless regardless of what they've done but doing so pleases the easily pleased.

The hilarious thing (OK not hilarious, it's not a humorous situation, but in terms of this debate, pretty funny) is that people don't seem to realise just how many extremely dangerous individuals living in this country UK security services have on various lists and being monitored constantly. The argument seems to be that she's "just too dangerous" to have even enter the country... even if she would be in jail :think:. A girl who was brainwashed online as a teenager, is barely into her 20's now, and has most likely never actively engaged in an attack. This isn't a defense of her it's just pointing out that she is, quite obviously, comparatively nowhere NEAR as much of a "risk" as hundreds of other individuals already living free in Britain. Thus, it becomes very clear that the reasons for all of this are not because it's "too dangerous" at all, and simply because it's so high profile. The way people talk about it (including the government) you'd think she was some sort of mastermind cell leader.

[thesheriff443]

The hilarious thing (OK not hilarious, it's not a humorous situation, but in terms of this debate, pretty funny) is that people don't seem to realise just how many extremely dangerous individuals living in this country UK security services have on various lists and being monitored constantly. The argument seems to be that she's "just too dangerous" to have even enter the country... even if she would be in jail :think:. A girl who was brainwashed online as a teenager, is barely into her 20's now, and has most likely never actively engaged in an attack. This isn't a defense of her it's just pointing out that she is, quite obviously, comparatively nowhere NEAR as much of a "risk" as hundreds of other individuals already living free in Britain. Thus, it becomes very clear that the reasons for all of this are not because it's "too dangerous" at all, and simply because it's so high profile. The way people talk about it (including the government) you'd think she was some sort of mastermind cell leader.

Yes ts we already have sub human scum living amongst so let’s let’s another one come and do the same, great argument you have there.

People like you that stand up for these murders are half the problem the world is like it is

And before you say anything like you are not standing up for them you are because you think it’s acceptable for these scum bags to be back in this country serve a ridiculously short sentence and be back on the streets claiming more benefits than decent hard working people

Only one way to rid the world of vermin is to kill them .

[Beso]

The hilarious thing (OK not hilarious, it's not a humorous situation, but in terms of this debate, pretty funny) is that people don't seem to realise just how many extremely dangerous individuals living in this country UK security services have on various lists and being monitored constantly. The argument seems to be that she's "just too dangerous" to have even enter the country... even if she would be in jail :think:. A girl who was brainwashed online as a teenager, is barely into her 20's now, and has most likely never actively engaged in an attack. This isn't a defense of her it's just pointing out that she is, quite obviously, comparatively nowhere NEAR as much of a "risk" as hundreds of other individuals already living free in Britain. Thus, it becomes very clear that the reasons for all of this are not because it's "too dangerous" at all, and simply because it's so high profile. The way people talk about it (including the government) you'd think she was some sort of mastermind cell leader.


What makes you think people dont seem to realise we are still at risk from hundreds of people still living in this country?

[Tom4784]

Deleted Post

[user104658]

What makes you think people dont seem to realise we are still at risk from hundreds of people still living in this country?

The massive over-statement of how supposedly dangerous she is (almost certainly far less dangerous than people who are already known to be living in the UK).

[Tom4784]

Deleted Post

[arista]

She was on Yesterdays London Free Paper
Front Page

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_WLtlcXMAEU0UW?format=jpg&name=900x900

[Swan]

She was groomed, she's brown, everyone is racist blah blah blah. Same old bollocks, same old excuses.

She's shown no real remorse, she was old enough to know right from wrong, it's a pretty open and shut case. She's not the UK's responsibility, she chose the path she took. She left, she's a terrorist who wanted to cause harm to all those who are now making excuses for her.

[thesheriff443]

She's a brown muslim girl, there's your answer. A lot more people who are demonising her now and ignoring the grooming aspect would likely be a whole lot more sympathetic if she was white.

The girl got groomed, made a dumb decision, was turned into a baby factory and lost all three kids for it by the time she was 22. If anyone else was in that situation, they'd be considered a victim.

Look at you making excuses for a terrorist and trying to make out it’s about race

You do realise some anti vaxxers are brown Muslim woman don’t you?

Look at the venom you showed towards them and yet someone that if they were still in a position to kill you as part of their on going hatred they would you see them as our responsibility

[Niamh.]

I don't know why people are acting like grooming young or vulnerable (or both) people is some made up thing, there's a lot of research into it. People are groomed online for a whole host of things from sexual abuse to terrorism. Solving this issue involves recognising where and why people like Shamima went down the path that they did and how to combat it

[thesheriff443]

I don't know why people are acting like grooming young or vulnerable (or both) people is some made up thing, there's a lot of research into it. People are groomed online for a whole host of things from sexual abuse to terrorism. Solving this issue involves recognising where and why people like Shamima went down the path that they did and how to combat it

No one is saying grooming doesn’t happen or is made up
Do I believe she was groomed, no it’s that’s simple

[user104658]

No one is saying grooming doesn’t happen or is made up
Do I believe she was groomed, no it’s that’s simple

But it's simply the facts of what happened that she was groomed... she was indoctrinated into ISIS ideology and recruited online by ISIS when she was a teenager. That part isn't in question. It would be valid to say "she already thought along those lines" or "it doesn't matter, she's dangerous now" or whatever but ... the reason her (and her friends) initially went to join the Islamic State was online grooming. That was discovered long before she "resurfaced".

[Beso]

I feel sorry for her on so many ways tbh.

[user104658]

There is something off about her in all honesty...If she does come back she needs to be on a tracker and watched 24/7

Like I said it's armchair psychology - what qualifications do you have that would allow you to assess this from some tabloid pictures and a few minutes of footage on YouTube? Maybe there is something off about her but it seems we'll never know, because she'll never be professionally assessed. We prefer kneejerk tabloid justice to actual answers in this country, it seems.

[bots]

Like I said it's armchair psychology - what qualifications do you have that would allow you to assess this from some tabloid pictures and a few minutes of footage on YouTube? Maybe there is something off about her but it seems we'll never know, because she'll never be professionally assessed. We prefer kneejerk tabloid justice to actual answers in this country, it seems.

this is where you are completely wrong TS. A court has stripped her of her citizenship for her actions. Nothing arm chair about it. It was a legal process. She isn't coming back and I am perfectly fine with that. She has been professionally assessed by the courts. Don't let the fact that you don't like the outcome stand in the way of the reality

[Cherie]

Like I said it's armchair psychology - what qualifications do you have that would allow you to assess this from some tabloid pictures and a few minutes of footage on YouTube? Maybe there is something off about her but it seems we'll never know, because she'll never be professionally assessed. We prefer kneejerk tabloid justice to actual answers in this country, it seems.

Saying she could help against the war on terror...is that wise given where she is?surely that would put a target in her back

And the way she flounced off post interview saying the UK didn’t know what it was doing...granted that might be right...but you don’t get a country onside with a comment like that

Simple observation....no psychology involved

[joeysteele]

As was pointed out on Question Time last night.
The Supreme Court didn't rule on whether she should lose her British citizenship.

It ruled only that the government was legal in deciding to remove it.

It leaves therefore as Kate Green of Labour was pressed, even by the audience, although the government were legal to do so.
However was the government wrong to remove her citizenship.

Kate Green was criticised for not opposing the government and to say they were wrong.

It's like it was legal for the government to say bring in the bedroom tax which causes many to lose their homes or be moved on.
However it wasn't right to do it.
Despite being legal.

What the court was saying.
If the government decided to leave her British citizenship in place or decide to remove it.
They, the government, not the Court, had the legal right to make that decision.

Whether it's right or wrong is another matter.
We've had many bad things done in the name of being legal.

If she were to return, no one is saying she should walk around free.
As the overall view on Question Time, from panel,( except the Con Minister and I think one of the audience who spoke), she should be allowed back to face the accusations and charges, held until gone through the Courts, then whatever sentence imposed, having to be carried out.

If any, even small, valuable information can in fact be collated from her as to how the terrorist network grooms and works.
Then I think that preferable.

I have no time for her myself.
However, as she is, yes in a camp, she is never going to have to face any justice procedure anywhere.

[user104658]

this is where you are completely wrong TS. A court has stripped her of her citizenship for her actions. Nothing arm chair about it. It was a legal process. She isn't coming back and I am perfectly fine with that. She has been professionally assessed by the courts. Don't let the fact that you don't like the outcome stand in the way of the reality

What does any of this have to do with Cherie stating that there's "something off about her"? :think: Baffling response there Bots, maybe you didn't read the quoted post?

Saying she could help against the war on terror...is that wise given where she is?surely that would put a target in her back

It would likely be suicide whilst in a prison camp abroad, though it could easily be done from a UK facility.

And the way she flounced off post interview saying the UK didn’t know what it was doing...granted that might be right...but you don’t get a country onside with a comment like that

She's a 22 year old who has had no formal education since her mid-teens, I don't think her lack of skill in terms of diplomacy is particularly surprising. But no it's not a way to get the public onside. Which again, is why these decisions should be being made properly by professionals, and not as PR decisions based on the musings and outrage of Joe Public.

Simple observation....no psychology involved

Were you saying there's something off about her physically? Her hair? Her hat, maybe? I assumed you were saying there's something off about her attitude/manner/how she comes across which is 100% psychology of course... and again, not something that laypeople are qualified to assess. Everyone can have an opinion but like I said, we'll never actually get an actual answer, because she isn't being brought back for professionals to assess.

[AnnieK]

Her citizenship was stripped for nothing more than political point scoring. The Government knew that if they brought her back to the UK, the public outcry would be huge but only because she was so high profile due to her age and sex. They have brought back many people who fought for ISIS and placed them in anti radicalisation programmes. A lot of them males who actually fought for ISIS.... Had her story not have made the news for being a young girl who fled there, she would have been back a long time ago.

https://www.ft.com/content/11fd7c00-0790-11ea-a984-fbbacad9e7dd


"Of the 900 Britons estimated to have travelled to fight with Isis, around 40 per cent have already returned, 20 per cent are thought to have died and the remainder, around 360, are still in the Middle East."

[Niamh.]

Her citizenship was stripped for nothing more than political point scoring. The Government knew that if they brought her back to the UK, the public outcry would be huge but only because she was so high profile due to her age and sex. They have brought back many people who fought for ISIS and placed them in anti radicalisation programmes. A lot of them males who actually fought for ISIS.... Had her story not have made the news for being a young girl who fled there, she would have been back a long time ago.

https://www.ft.com/content/11fd7c00-0790-11ea-a984-fbbacad9e7dd


"Of the 900 Britons estimated to have travelled to fight with Isis, around 40 per cent have already returned, 20 per cent are thought to have died and the remainder, around 360, are still in the Middle East."

well, well, well

[Cherie]

Her citizenship was stripped for nothing more than political point scoring. The Government knew that if they brought her back to the UK, the public outcry would be huge but only because she was so high profile due to her age and sex. They have brought back many people who fought for ISIS and placed them in anti radicalisation programmes. A lot of them males who actually fought for ISIS.... Had her story not have made the news for being a young girl who fled there, she would have been back a long time ago.

https://www.ft.com/content/11fd7c00-0790-11ea-a984-fbbacad9e7dd


"Of the 900 Britons estimated to have travelled to fight with Isis, around 40 per cent have already returned, 20 per cent are thought to have died and the remainder, around 360, are still in the Middle East."
We always knew they brought people back though :shrug:

[Cherie]

What does any of this have to do with Cherie stating that there's "something off about her"? :think: Baffling response there Bots, maybe you didn't read the quoted post?



It would likely be suicide whilst in a prison camp abroad, though it could easily be done from a UK facility.



She's a 22 year old who has had no formal education since her mid-teens, I don't think her lack of skill in terms of diplomacy is particularly surprising. But no it's not a way to get the public onside. Which again, is why these decisions should be being made properly by professionals, and not as PR decisions based on the musings and outrage of Joe Public.



Were you saying there's something off about her physically? Her hair? Her hat, maybe? I assumed you were saying there's something off about her attitude/manner/how she comes across which is 100% psychology of course... and again, not something that laypeople are qualified to assess. Everyone can have an opinion but like I said, we'll never actually get an actual answer, because she isn't being brought back for professionals to assess.

It’s my opinion, no psychology involved

[user104658]

It’s my opinion, no psychology involved

If you have an opinion on how someone comes across/their mannerisms and think there's no psychology involved, that can only be because you don't know what psychology is? It is psychology. That's not a matter of opinion. The comment that "something seems off about her" is a comment on her psychology. If you hear someone laughing outside your window and say "Oh, she sounds happy" ... that is a comment on that person's psychology. Psychology doesn't just mean "abnormal stuff".

[AnnieK]

We always knew they brought people back though :shrug:

I'm not saying it was a secret but I am saying in my opinion why Shamima was stripped. Because of the coverage at the time and subsequently when she popped up at the refugee camp she became recognisable.

I am sure a lot of the men who went out to fight committed far more heinous crimes but because their pictures have not been splashed across the media, they have been allowed to quietly return.

It is political posturing at its best. We are probably in far more danger from the fighters who have returned, who are trained jihadi's than a kid who has spent more time in a refugee camp than actually with ISIS.

[user104658]

I'm not saying it was a secret but I am saying in my opinion why Shamima was stripped. Because of the coverage at the time and subsequently when she popped up at the refugee camp she became recognisable.

I am sure a lot of the men who went out to fight committed far more heinous crimes but because their pictures have not been splashed across the media, they have been allowed to quietly return.

It is political posturing at its best. We are probably in far more danger from the fighters who have returned, who are trained jihadi's than a kid who has spent more time in a refugee camp than actually with ISIS.

This is beyond question really, we've brought back people objectively far more dangerous, the reason she was stripped of citizenship and continues to be denied is because it's high profile and the government don't want the bad PR. It's that simple.

[Cherie]

If you have an opinion on how someone comes across/their mannerisms and think there's no psychology involved, that can only be because you don't know what psychology is? It is psychology. That's not a matter of opinion. The comment that "something seems off about her" is a comment on her psychology. If you hear someone laughing outside your window and say "Oh, she sounds happy" ... that is a comment on that person's psychology. Psychology doesn't just mean "abnormal stuff".

I leave the armchair psychology to you

[user104658]

I leave the armchair psychology to you

You don't though, that was the whole point, you just think you do because you don't actually know what it means.

[Cherie]

I'm not saying it was a secret but I am saying in my opinion why Shamima was stripped. Because of the coverage at the time and subsequently when she popped up at the refugee camp she became recognisable.

I am sure a lot of the men who went out to fight committed far more heinous crimes but because their pictures have not been splashed across the media, they have been allowed to quietly return.

It is political posturing at its best. We are probably in far more danger from the fighters who have returned, who are trained jihadi's than a kid who has spent more time in a refugee camp than actually with ISIS.

Thats my opinion also, that said I don’t care about her situation...sorry not sorry :laugh:

[Cherie]

You don't though, that was the whole point, you just think you do because you don't actually know what it means.

Ok

[user104658]

Ok

:thumbs:

[rusticgal]

Maybe if she had shown some genuine remorse over her actions in the first place she wouldn't be in the situation she is today...

[user104658]

Maybe if she had shown some genuine remorse over her actions in the first place she wouldn't be in the situation she is today...

Is there a time limit on remorse?

[rusticgal]

Is there a time limit on remorse?



Any remorse she shows now is simply an act of desperation to return to this country....imo.

[user104658]

Any remorse she shows now is simply an act of desperation to return to this country....imo.

But it wouldn't have been had she shown it earlier?

[rusticgal]

But it wouldn't have been had she shown it earlier?


That’s right…well done.

[user104658]

That’s right…well done.

What was the cut off point?

[rusticgal]

What was the cut off point?


She had plenty of opportunities to show remorse when she was initially interviewed. It’s only since she realised her lack of remorse went against her that she’s now being remorseful…

[AnnieK]

but there are no guessing games, she isn't coming back, end of story. The only people trying to confuse the issue are the ones who want a terrorist brought back to the UK. Everyone else is perfectly fine with the situation as it is.

There are at least 360 UK citizens who went to fight FOR ISIS who have returned quietly with full support of the Government. They could be walking round your town or mine. How do you feel about that? How is their situation any different to hers other than they have not had their faces splashed all over the media so they are faceless hence posing a far greater risk to the UK public - de-radicalised or not.

I struggle to understand why we have made such an example of this one young girl. I have very limited sympathy for her except for a sense of unjust treatment when we have allowed actual fighters, killers and terrorists to return.

[arista]

She said
If Isis came to the camp
she would rather die than join them.

[user104658]

She said
If Isis came to the camp
she would rather die than join them.

She had to say it before 8.59pm on the 9th of August unfortunately. She unwittingly missed the window of benefit of the doubt, so now it's lies.

[Tom4784]

Deleted Post

[arista]

Yes another Interview
this time with SkyNewsHD.


Latest : she was groomed by friends and older men
she met online before joining the terror group.

https://news.sky.com/story/shamima-begum-is-bride-insists-she-didnt-hate-britain-when-she-fled-to-syria-and-now-wants-to-face-trial-in-uk-12475239

[user104658]

OMFG did whoever checks content for sky not realise what the first two words in that video are?? :umm2: :skull:

[arista]

OMFG did whoever checks content for sky not realise what the first two words in that video are?? :umm2: :skull:

What?


Her Speaking was fine

[Cherie]

OMFG did whoever checks content for sky not realise what the first two words in that video are?? :umm2: :skull:

what are they?

[user104658]

what are they?

I'm not repeating on here :think:. One of them says "S - N" and another one laughs. They're obviously just having a joke as young people do but Sky could have cropped it out...

...either that or I'm mishearing but I don't think so, it's pretty clear! It's literally the first second.

[arista]

I'm not repeating on here :think:. One of them says "S - N" and another one laughs. They're obviously just having a joke as young people do but Sky could have cropped it out...

...either that or I'm mishearing but I don't think so, it's pretty clear! It's literally the first second.



The Presenter is talking over that
so most will not hear it.

[user104658]

The Presenter is talking over that
so most will not hear it.

I assume they missed it when putting the video together. I do remember a fantastic occasion when ITV interviewed a Scottish football fan at an airport and didn't realise that he had used the fantastic phrase "anyc *nt" (in place of "anyone") during the interview. :skull:

[Cherie]

I'm not repeating on here :think:. One of them says "S - N" and another one laughs. They're obviously just having a joke as young people do but Sky could have cropped it out...

...either that or I'm mishearing but I don't think so, it's pretty clear! It's literally the first second.

I can vaguely hear it now, you must have some high definition speakers :laugh:

[user104658]

I can vaguely hear it now, you must have some high definition speakers :laugh:

7.1 surround sound gaming headphones innitt #Gamr4Lyfe

[bots]

is s-n a step up from s-m?

[MTVN]

Genuinely have no idea what the word is

[Tom4784]

Deleted Post

[user104658]

Genuinely have no idea what the word is

A racially offensive slur for people of middle-eastern origin. I imagine it was being relayed that someone else had used it on one of them, and they were laughing about it.

[Zizu]

The way this country has handled the Shamima Begum situation continues to be embarrassing and gross.


Please expand ...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Tom4784]

Deleted Post

[Zizu]

A teenage girl is targeted and groomed to join a terrorist organisation, with grooming methods very much similar to that of victims of sex trafficking and sexual assault. She goes to the Middle East, is made to marry an IS fighter, has several children that all die and this is all before she's 20 years old. When she wants to come home, the UK government make a pantomine of it all to appeal to rancid gammon and hold her out to dry when we've taken back actual violent terrorists in the past with no such furore. She gets made an example of to sate the vindictiveness of this country and we all become hypocrites in the process as we strip a UK citizen of her citizenship and leave her without a nation, forcing her to become Afghanistan's problem when everyone that supports such actions would be throwing a fit if another country forced us to take in their 'undesirables' in the way we've forced Afghanistan to keep hold of Shamima. It's also against basic human rights to make someone nationless but that's what we've done because **** the rules, we're Britain.

I never used to feel much sympathy for her, but the more I hear about it, the more I realise how ****ed up it is and how hypocritical people are about it. Like, look in this thread alone. Look at Rustic's older posts about saying how Shamima Begum wasn't 'sorry enough' at the right time and that it's too late now. Rustic made out that there was some kind of time limit on things like this but she'd move the goalposts if the situation was different.

Shamima Begum should be allowed to come back, face the courts on any crimes she has committed, and be completely deprogrammed. Her experiences could prove to be very important in anti-terrorism and radicalisation efforts, but nah, gotta appeal to the bloodlust of the armchair gammon and punish someone who is very much a victim of teenage naivete and circumstances while we accept actual dangerous terrorists back with nary a complaint.

Interesting.
Thank you .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[user104658]

Basically the government won’t consider her case because of her level of notoriety with the public, rather than because of her objective level of risk.

You have to be wary of any government that operates on those principles; putting what’s most palatable to their voter base before objective facts and fairness.

Of course there’s also the sad irony that the only reason she’s a “famous case” amongst thousands of young people who left to join ISIS, is that her case was so alarming at the time - a 15 year old girl being groomed into leaving the country. That’s why it was in the press so much… because we were well aware that she had been groomed and that was worrying. The reason it’s one of the most talked about examples is one of the clear reasons she SHOULD be the responsibility of the UK; the clear failure to protect a child from grooming. And yet it’s that high profile that is stopping her case from being considered properly and not through the lens of PR.

[bots]

she didn't help her cause by how she came across in previous interviews, that's for sure, but, we won't let her back in the country, yet we free a known child killer. It all seems wrong to me. We care about murderers and rapists and favour their route to rehabilitation above the safety of the general public but there is no route back for her

[user104658]

she didn't help her cause by how she came across in previous interviews, that's for sure, but, we won't let her back in the country, yet we free a known child killer. It all seems wrong to me. We care about murderers and rapists and favour their route to rehabilitation above the safety of the general public but there is no route back for her

Realistically there's probably no route back for her because she's in a position where she's at risk in most communities. At risk from the general public in mixed communities, and (frankly) now also at risk from fringe Islamic elements in insular Muslim communities.

She doesn't come across massively well in most interviews to be honest, but not in terms of "still an extremist/dangerous", but rather that she clearly feels quite bitter about all of it as she thinks of herself as a victim (which she is in many ways) but she doesn't show any real introspection into why people think she should also show remorse. But then... she's a 22 year old who has been living in a prison camp since she was a teenager, and had no education since she was a child. In little flashes she comes across as a petulant teenager but that shouldn't really be surprising. Again that's of course a big problem with public perceptions of how things should go - "Maybe if she was more likeable..." - which obviously has nothing at all to do with her being a risk. Unlikeable people aren't necessarily dangerous - and vice versa, some extremely charming, affable people can be very dangerous.

[Tom4784]

Deleted Post

[arista]

https://twitter.com/GMB/status/1536951295042588678


Was on GMBHD itv early

[hijaxers]

https://twitter.com/GMB/status/1536951295042588678


Was on GMBHD itv early

No sympathy for her at all sorry.

[ThomasC]

https://twitter.com/GMB/status/1536951295042588678


Was on GMBHD itv early

She was likely groomed, but doesn't mean she has been 'ungroomed' and can still present a significant risk. I think that she could at least be trialled here with very strict security protocol. Once radicalised is there turning back, questionable and questionable threat.

[Oliver_W]

She was likely groomed, but doesn't mean she has been 'ungroomed' and can still present a significant risk. I think that she could at least be trialled here with very strict security protocol. Once radicalised is there turning back, questionable and questionable threat.

There's been no indication at all that she's been "ungroomed" or deradicalised. She doesn't regret her actions and want to return because she realises the ideology she was pursuing is bad, but because ISIS failed and life over there ain't what it was cracked up to be.

[arista]

Started on
GMBHD itv.

A change in her case.

[Exclusive: A spy working for Canadian intelligence
smuggled Shamima Begum and her
two friends from Bethnal Green into Syria
and Britain later conspired with Canada
to cover up its role, according to explosive news
claims ⁦@thetimes]
⁩

https://twitter.com/TomEPPayne/status/1564684475057016832

A hearing is to take place in November


Both UK and Canadian
Governments will not talk
about Security Intelligence Matters.

[arista]

From a New Book
the writer is speaking on GMBHD itv.

[arista]

The Book writer is Live now


GMBHD itv.


Richard Kerbaj
"The Secret History of the Five Eyes"

He says there is a Cover-up.

Canada did not want,
her story going public.


Britain can not Comment on Security.

[arista]

1564882830328479744

[MTVN]

Are they suggesting he did it to maintain his cover or had he gone rogue?

[arista]

Are they suggesting he did it to maintain his cover or had he gone rogue?


No Double Agent

[Gusto Brunt]

I just wish the UK was as hard on foriegn murderers who are ALLOWED to stay and live in the UK.

I'll never forget a case about 12 years ago when a young girl walking home from school was a victim of a hit and run. In fact the driver not only fled the scene but he threw the girl's body while she was still alive into a ditch where she was later discovered but soon after died.

He was a foriegner, illegally living in the UK, but because he had a partner and a young baby, he was ALLOWED to stay and live in the UK due to HIS human rights.

No mention of the dead girl. Nor justice for her. :fist:

[Niamh.]

There's been no indication at all that she's been "ungroomed" or deradicalised. She doesn't regret her actions and want to return because she realises the ideology she was pursuing is bad, but because ISIS failed and life over there ain't what it was cracked up to be.

Wouldn't it be valuable though to take her back to the UK and use her to try and figure out how and why she was successfully groomed by terrorists and figure out a way to stop this happening in the future? She could have a lot of information that might be helpful in understanding the enemy better too.

[arista]

Shamima Begum: Spy for Canada smuggled schoolgirl to Syria


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-62726954

[bots]

it's not going to make any difference

[Oliver_W]

Wouldn't it be valuable though to take her back to the UK and use her to try and figure out how and why she was successfully groomed by terrorists and figure out a way to stop this happening in the future? She could have a lot of information that might be helpful in understanding the enemy better too.

I doubt she knows anything useful which couldn't be found elsewhere.

[Niamh.]

I doubt she knows anything useful which couldn't be found elsewhere.

Maybe/maybe not, doesn't change the fact that she is a UK citizen who was groomed as a minor by a terrorist group while she was a UK resident. You should be responsible for her

[bots]

the problem with Begum is that she still supports the isis cause to this day. We will likely be moving to an even further right wing government next week, so she basically stands zero chance of being let back in the country

[arista]

[She ran away from her London home
as a 15-year-old with two other girls in 2015,
ending up in Syria and marrying
one of the terror group's fighters.
Ms Begum was found pregnant in a
Syrian detention in 2019
and her citizenship was revoked for
national security reasons.

She's set to base her appeal
on claims that she was a victim
of child trafficking because she was
allegedly smuggled into Syria by
a Canadian spy.

The claims were made in a book
that said a double agent got them
into the country and that his role
was covered up by police and the
UK government.
Her appeal will be heard by the
Special Immigration Appeals Commission
and is expected to last five days.

Ms Begum has denied involvement
in any terror activities when she was living
in Islamic State's former heartland.]


https://news.sky.com/story/is-bride-shamima-begums-appeal-to-restore-uk-citizenship-to-begin-in-london-court-12752158?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-63699503

[thesheriff443]

Has any one watched the faking it special?
Shows what a truly twisted creature she is

[arista]

Has any one watched the faking it special?
Shows what a truly twisted creature she is

If its Netflix
I would not have watched it.

I watched the ITV1HD Documentary, this year.


Lets hope by Friday this week
the Court gives a full answer.

[hijaxers]

If its Netflix
I would not have watched it.

I watched the ITV1HD Documentary, this year.


Lets hope by Friday this week
the Court gives a full answer.

Yeah and denies her again i hope.

[arista]

['I'm just so much more than ISIS':
BBC sparks outrage for 'giving terrorists
a platform' as Shamima Begum lands
10-part podcast
to 'retrace her journey' as she tells how
she left the UK and 'packed chocolate
because she couldn't find it in Syria']

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2023/01/11/00/66432275-0-image-a-57_1673397123510.jpg

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2023/01/11/00/66432281-0-image-m-60_1673397169241.jpg
[In 2015, Begum (centre), then 15,
and her school friends Kadiza Sultana (left), 15,
and Amira Abase (right), 16, fled
their East London homes to join IS.
Her two companions are believed to
have died while there]


10 part BBC Funded podcast
is too long.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11622241/BBC-sparks-outrage-giving-terrorists-platform-Shamima-Begum-lands-10-podcast.html

[bots]

we are paying for that

[arista]

we are paying for that


Sadly, yes

[Oliver_W]

"But they gave a platform to someone who thought the UK should leave a neoliberal trading partnership, so why shouldn't they also give a platform to a literal terrorist?"

[user104658]

Shining a light on the mechanisms that terrorists use to indoctrinate and groom young Muslims in Western countries is probably one of the most useful and important podcast topics I can think of, so why wouldn't they? It's obviously going to be vetted before going out - it's not like she's going to be using it as a recruiting platform.

If she's going to explain how they got into her head and got her out of the country and into the physical hands of ISIS then I'd say it's pretty much essential listening for all moderate Muslim parents... no?

[arista]

Shining a light on the mechanisms that terrorists use to indoctrinate and groom young Muslims in Western countries is probably one of the most useful and important podcast topics I can think of, so why wouldn't they? It's obviously going to be vetted before going out - it's not like she's going to be using it as a recruiting platform.

If she's going to explain how they got into her head and got her out of the country and into the physical hands of ISIS then I'd say it's pretty much essential listening for all moderate Muslim parents... no?


Sure (if it helps some Muslims in the UK)
But I have not checked out this over long podcast

I would prefer a TV Documentary like ITV1HD made

[user104658]

Sure (if it helps some Muslims in the UK)
But I have not checked out this over long podcast

I would prefer a TV Documentary like ITV1HD made

Podcasts are much cheaper to make so if people have their pants in a twist over a podcast, they'd definitely be gnashing their gums about a documentary.

[arista]

Podcasts are much cheaper to make so if people have their pants in a twist over a podcast, they'd definitely be gnashing their gums about a documentary.


Yes much cheaper,
I agree.


Timers Radio had a Good Podcast playing overnight
on the online radio and DAB
over Xmas
About a UK Former Soldier, Press man who
was captured by Isis
but was not killed by them
around the time the USA Press man was beheaded
he was last seen having food
in a restaurant with them
it ended with Bombs taking out the
place he was last seen


That was a quality Times Reporter
on loads of 30mins episodes
Far better than any on BBC.

[arista]

A clip of Part 1 of this Podcast
was shown on 2hour Portillo show. (GBnewsHD)

She says Yes, she joined ISIS
but they are gone now.

She has also stated she can not buy a Minted Aero
out there? (that clip was not shown)

[arista]

BBCnewswatch

Confirmed a BBC TV Documentary
taken from the Podcast
on her, will appear
next month.

[arista]

Today the Saturday Times
Magazine
has Shamima Begum
on the Cover with her Cap on.

"I was in love with the idea of
Islamic State.
I was in denial.
Now I have a lot of regret"


Josh Baker
has been talking with her.

The Shamima Begum Story airs on BBC2HD
this Tuesday 7th of Feb.
9PM-10:30PM

[arista]

Today another London Judge
is to rule on her.

[Oliver_W]

Today another London Judge
is to rule on her.

How much time and money is going to be wasted on telling her no over and over?

Just say no "with prejudice" and be done with it.

[bots]

this is the make or break one, i don't believe she has any further options after this

[bots]

she lost her appeal

[Zizu]

she lost her appeal


Good

Hopefully we don’t hear or see anything about her ever again.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Crimson Dynamo]

great news

[arista]

she lost her appeal



Yes, they understand all the Facts




Good News

[arista]

The Thread title
I can not change as it older than a year.


Is Still Correct

[arista]

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2023/02/22/10/67953699-0-image-m-14_1677061541982.jpg

https://news.sky.com/story/shamima-begum-loses-legal-case-over-british-citizenship-and-return-to-uk-12816584

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64731007

[MTVN]

There isn't a single country on earth where she is allowed to enter so basically has to spend her life in the ramshackle Syrian detention camp

I think that's a bit messed up

[arista]

There isn't a single country on earth where she is allowed to enter so basically has to spend her life in the ramshackle Syrian detention camp

I think that's a bit messed up


She could teach the Children in that camp
all the Good Muslim Ways.
She is not stupid.

[Zizu]

There isn't a single country on earth where she is allowed to enter so basically has to spend her life in the ramshackle Syrian detention camp

I think that's a bit messed up


She’s not allowed in any other country LEGALLY … she will find a way - I have no doubts


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Crimson Dynamo]

I think that's a bit messed up

so is assisting a person to wear a suicide vest

[arista]

so is assisting a person to wear a suicide vest



Very True LT.



Also saying our Manchester Terrorist Bombing
"Was Payback" ?

[arista]

1628338640999919617

[arista]

Josh who made
the BBC2HD Docu'

And the 10 Part Podcast

Said as he was leaving the Court
her Lawyers said, it is not over yet?


Part 10 of his podcast, still to come out
will have this update.


He was just on BBCnewsHD


The BBC 2HD Docu' is enough
I do not want the 10 podcasts

[rusticgal]

Good...

[Cherie]

Very surprised at this decision

[Oliver_W]

She’s not allowed in any other country LEGALLY … she will find a way - I have no doubts


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

You think she'll join the Dinghy Parade?

[arista]

You think she'll join the Dinghy Parade?


If she can escape Lebanon/Syria

If she got to Dover
They can Fly her back to Lebanon

[Liam-]

Shirking our responsibilities as usual

[arista]

Shirking our responsibilities as usual

No, they have Information
you & I
do not have.

The Judge has ruled today.
Respect Our Laws
Liam

[Zizu]

Shirking our responsibilities as usual


If it’s true that she witnessed many , many decapitations and remained completely unfazed though all that … then she will be just fine .


I felt distinctly queasy just watching one in Game of Thrones !!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[UserSince2005]

TV Show was very interesting.
She is clearly well very coached and quite convincing.
But it comes clear that her coach hasn't told her how to answer every question and she does struggle at parts
She refused to answer multiple questions from the interviewer
Its clear to me she is still hiding somethings and is not being 100% honest.

[UserSince2005]

https://youtu.be/wixP-UNwoO4?t=79

[Zizu]

Josh who made
the BBC2HD Docu'

And the 10 Part Podcast

Said as he was leaving the Court
her Lawyers said … “ it is not over yet “




Please tell me that the taxpayers aren’t paying for all her legal fees / costs !!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Zizu]

Right , I have a few questions ..https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230222/46efc1376867aa025b793043313a403b.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Crimson Dynamo]

the guy who has interviewed her 7 times was on LBC - says she is a lying manipulator piece for work.and good she isnt coming to UK

these lawyers need chasing, absolute wankers

[Mystic Mock]

I don't know if I feel comfortable with her out in the world potentially killing more people.

But on the other side I am relieved that we don't have to pay for her to be fed in one of our Prisons, or worse released from Prison for good behaviour.:umm2:

[hijaxers]

Well i think at least must 85% of us agree with this, we do not need to look at this case again , she can rot.

[Zizu]

Well i think at least must 85% of us agree with this, we do not need to look at this case again , she can rot.


Sadly it looks like they will appeal .. I presume that we are paying for all her legal costs


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[arista]

Today
She also Got a NO

[arista]

No, they have Information
you & I
do not have.

The Judge has ruled today.
Respect Our Laws
Liam



Same Again
in Court today

[arista]

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/06/14/21/44220531-9685909-image-a-68_1623703190492.jpg

No stay out
you Terrorist

[arista]

[Shamima Begum has lost
a Court of Appeal decision
to regain her UK citizenship.

The ruling means the 24-year-old must
remain in Syria.
The government stripped her citizenship
on national security grounds in 2019.

Ms Begum left London nine years ago
aged 15 to travel to Syria and
join Islamic State group, or IS.

The ruling by three appeal judges
was unanimous.
It could still be challenged in the
Supreme Court by Ms Begum.

Her solicitor, Daniel Furner said
that her legal team were "not going to stop
fighting until she does get justice and
until she is safely back home".

In the ruling on Friday,
Lady Chief Justice Baroness Carr said:
"It could be argued the decision in Ms Begum's
case was harsh. It could also be argued that
Ms Begum is the author of her own misfortune.]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68378818

[Crimson Dynamo]

The fact that "lawyers" work on sh1t like this is staggering

[Zizu]

The fact that "lawyers" work on sh1t like this is staggering


I’m assuming that the British taxpayers are paying her legal costs over the years


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[UserSince2005]

Isn’t this like the 10th time she’s lost the citizenship she was never entitled to to begin with lol.
She should really consider making a life in Gaza :love: