[Pyramid*]

Jesus wept. I think we can safely give up on Britain.

Squatters should be encouraged because they bring empty homes back into use, a judge said yesterday.
Fiona Henderson ruled they were not criminals and there was no evidence they carried out more anti-social behaviour than rent-paying tenants.
Her judgment is a blow to the thousands every year who see their homes invaded – and struggle through the courts to win them back.

She ordered a list of empty homes in North London to be made public to the Advisory Service for Squatters, an East London-based organisation known as the ‘estate agency for squatters’

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1XAncmDek

[Niamh.]

I don't even know what to say.

[Tom]

If its a derilict building then squatting is fine. Its only a problem when someone wants to live in or develop a building.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Tom

If its a derilict building then squatting is fine. Its only a problem when someone wants to live in or develop a building.

and who pays for (regardless of where they get the following things..), water for them to drink and wash themselves and their belongings with, refuse collection, sewerage, street lighting on the street that the building is in, general maintenance and upkeep of surrounding area...

Oh yes... honest Joe, who pay that little thing known as Council Tax and Water Rates.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

and who pays for (regardless of where they get the following things..), water for them to drink and wash themselves and their belongings with, refuse collection, sewerage, street lighting on the street that the building is in, general maintenance and upkeep of surrounding area...

Oh yes... honest Joe, who pay that little thing known as Council Tax and Water Rates.

Paying into the system is riddled with loopholes and if people wish to exploit that then thats their decision. They'll have a crap quality of living but its their own choice. Its part of living in a democratic society

I don't agree with it but we're not going to put a stop to it, just like homelessness and people who claim benefits- they all get things for free or don't have to answer to Inland Revenue

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Tom

Paying into the system is riddled with loopholes and if people wish to exploit that then thats their decision. They'll have a crap quality of living but its their own choice. Its part of living in a democratic society

I don't agree with it but we're not going to put a stop to it, just like homelessness and people who claim benefits- they all get things for free or don't have to answer to Inland Revenue

all of the above is of course very true: however it's not the point of the thread - in essence.

It's the fact that this headcase of a woman - a judge of all people, comes away with crap like this. As said by Zippy - this muppet is encouraging this type of thing....... and worse.... it's the fecking tax payers who pay this muppet's overinflated salary to make decisions like this.

If that's the people laying down the law in the country: what hell chance does the UK have.

About zilch.

[Pyramid*]

Caring squatters.......

A gang of 'caring' squatters have pledged to finally move out of a heavily pregnant woman's home because they 'felt bad' that they had caused her so much stress.

The 11-strong group, who invaded the West Hampstead home, promised to move out an hour before Katun Cockerell's husband, consultant neurologist Oliver, was due to go to court to secure an eviction order.

They had invaded the home, before the pair had a chance to move in from their St John Wood's flat, and refused to leave - despite Mrs Cockerell's pleas that the stress may harm her unborn child.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1XCNMVvGu

[arista]

Originally Posted by Tom

If its a derilict building then squatting is fine. Its only a problem when someone wants to live in or develop a building.

The Mother has baby due today and is going to return to her Camden home
A Squat Punk was on London ITV Local News last night
he said they are leaving today.



That Judge needs to Correct how she speaks.

[Zippy]

what a stupid bitch

Somebody REALLY should give the squatters her address next time she goes on holiday. She'll soon change her tune when she returns home and finds it taken over.

It's infuriating that judges like this can't just be sacked. They are a disgrace and do damage to our whole judicial system. Her whole thinking is immoral and encourages people to think they can just take things that are not their's for free.

[MTVN]

I don't see the problem with squatters, as long as it's a building which is unoccupied; it's better than them going homeless

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by MTVN

I don't see the problem with squatters, as long as it's a building which is unoccupied; it's better than them going homeless

and what about the following..... it's not about letting them have a roof over their head for nothing more than getting a night's sleep....

and who pays for (regardless of where they get the following things..), water for them to drink and wash themselves and their belongings with, refuse collection, sewerage, street lighting on the street that the building is in, general maintenance and upkeep of surrounding area...

Oh yes... honest Joe, who pay that little thing known as Council Tax and Water Rates.

__________________

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by MTVN

I don't see the problem with squatters, as long as it's a building which is unoccupied; it's better than them going homeless

Yeah, lets all stop paying rent and mortgages and go live in someone elses house for free instead!

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yeah, lets all stop paying rent and mortgages and go live in someone elses house for free instead!

And every other type of public utility and service that the rest of us have to actually pay for.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

and what about the following..... it's not about letting them have a roof over their head for nothing more than getting a night's sleep....
__________________

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yeah, lets all stop paying rent and mortgages and go live in someone elses house for free instead!

I'll reply to both of these just to elaborate on my position

Squatters are liable to pay council tax I believe, and if they weren't there would the property owner not have to pay it anyway?

The simple fact is that there are thousands of houses in this country that are just serving absolutely no purpose, completely empty. How can that be fair when we are in the middle of a housing crisis with half a million people with no home at all? Why exactly do you think that is a good thing? At least squatters sometimes contribute to the communities that they squat in, cant say the same for the millionaire owners of these houses that have too much space than they know what to do with

Squatting is not a new phenomenon, there is something of a tradition of it in the UK, back in the days after WWII homeless servicemen with no home to go back to would squat in buildings left empty. It isn't fair just to generalise squatters as people who can't be bothered to work to get their own home.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Squatters are liable to pay council tax I believe, ?

Given that by the very nature of the people that squatters tend to be: how do you propose they are made to pay their council tax? How do you propose that the council collect monies from them when the default notices are ignored and they move into their next squat?

Originally Posted by MTVN

there would the property owner not have to pay it anyway?

What part of that has got to do with anything. If I have 2 cars outside, paid for, taxed and insured but I chose to use only one; that means I should be happy for some parasitic human to come along and declare that it is now theirs to do what they want with, including damaging it...., and tough luck to me. Aye, very good.... !

Originally Posted by MTVN

At least squatters sometimes contribute to the communities that they squat in, cant say the same for the millionaire owners of these houses that have too much space than they know what to do with .

What wonderful contribution do these squatters 'sometimes' (sorry, sometimes, sometimes just aint good enough), give back to the communities that they squat in?

The millionaires of these houses/properties etc: pay staggering amounts in taxes that are churned back into the economy: even on the basis of the interest alone from their savings, never mind everything else.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

Given that by the very nature of the people that squatters tend to be: how do you propose they are made to pay their council tax? How do you propose that the council collect monies from them when the default notices are ignored and they move into their next squat?



What part of that has got to do with anything. If I have 2 cars outside, paid for, taxed and insured but I chose to use only one; that means I should be happy for some parasitic human to come along and declare that it is now theirs to do what they want with, including damaging it...., and tough luck to me. Aye, very good.... !



What wonderful contribution do these squatters 'sometimes' (sorry, sometimes, sometimes just aint good enough), give back to the communities that they squat in?

The millionaires of these houses/properties etc: pay staggering amounts in taxes that are churned back into the economy: even on the basis of the interest alone from their savings, never mind everything else.

I don't know how they collect it, I'm no council tax expert but this is what I found online http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/...uncil_tax.htm:

The hierarchy of liability is:
- a resident owner-occupier who owns either the leasehold or freehold of all or part of the property
- a resident tenant
- a resident who lives in the property and who is a licensee. This means that they are not a tenant, but have permission to stay there
- any resident living in the property, for example, a squatter
- an owner of the property where no one is resident

So as you can see squatters do have to pay council tax, and even if for some reason they are not the homeowner is paying it whether there are people squatting or not so what's the big deal?

And you want some examples of squatters contributing to the community, here's a couple:

There's the famous St Agnes Place, a street which became one of Britain's most famous squats; over 30 years it grew into a large community offering social centres for the homeless as well as hostels and the place was visited by several artists and musicians including Bob Marley

Also in Dalston squatters kept the properties in good condition, did repair work to the roof as well as general weatherproofing and internal maintenence to buildings that would otherwise have fallen into disrepair.

But nah ****** them, better for them to be homeless and for streets to be filled with empty and derelict houses right

[Stu]

Bastards basking in the glow of the streetlamps we pay for!

[Zippy]

I don't give a sh!t about paying for streetlamps but I do care about the principal of not being able to just take somebody elses property just because they're not using it at the time. Call me old fashioned.

you could take that logic to all kinds of extremes that undermine any civilised society. There should be ways to force homeowners to use their properties without just giving any random squatters the right to break in and take over. Causing huge damage to the property and often dragging the area down into the bargain. It's insane.

And as for squatters paying council tax....hahahaha..good one.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Zippy

I don't give a sh!t about paying for streetlamps but I do care about the principal of not being able to just take somebody elses property just because they're not using it at the time. Call me old fashioned.

you could take that logic to all kinds of extremes that undermine any civilised society. There should be ways to force homeowners to use their properties without just giving any random squatters the right to break in and take over. Causing huge damage to the property and often dragging the area down into the bargain. It's insane.

And as for squatters paying council tax....hahahaha..good one.

Ever see the documentary about a town taking council matters into their own hands? one of the things they lost was street lighting. What resulted was typically - crime increase, vandalism,burglary,house break ins, people falling and injuring themselves as they can't see kerb edges etc.

I know it may initially appear something flippant but suburbia plunged into darkness doesn't make for pleasant living conditions.

[Benjamin]

Another example of why the once great Empire that was Britain has now completely been destroyed. This country has long been on the way down, and honestly not a lot can save it. You can all huff, puff and disagree all you want, but the fact is, the UK has lost pretty much all its power (even within our own country) due to stupidity, idiotic decisions, cowardliness and greed. It's a shame because everything our ancestors worked for we have all taken for granted and let it slide from our greedy hands.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Benjamin.

Another example of why the once great Empire that was Britain has now completely been destroyed. This country has long been on the way down, and honestly not a lot can save it. You can all huff, puff and disagree all you want, but the fact is, the UK has lost pretty much all its power (even within our own country) due to stupidity, idiotic decisions, cowardliness and greed. It's a shame because everything our ancestors worked for we have all taken for granted and let it slide from our greedy hands.

*Stands back and applauds*

Absolutely agree with every word, every sentiment you've put over here.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Benjamin.

Another example of why the once great Empire that was Britain has now completely been destroyed. This country has long been on the way down, and honestly not a lot can save it. You can all huff, puff and disagree all you want, but the fact is, the UK has lost pretty much all its power (even within our own country) due to stupidity, idiotic decisions, cowardliness and greed. It's a shame because everything our ancestors worked for we have all taken for granted and let it slide from our greedy hands.

Surely having the largest Empire in the world was also pretty greedy? I don't understand how you can blame greed for losing power

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Surely having the largest Empire in the world was also pretty greedy? I don't understand how you can blame greed for losing power

I think, he can correct me if wrong, he's referring to the get something for nothing way of thinking that now seems to be so prominant in our culture.

Morals are down the toilet. When you have judges like this dumb bitch making light of rape, burglaries and home stealing(which is what squatting is) then it just makes decent people want to pack up and leave. Taking their taxes with them.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Benjamin.

Another example of why the once great Empire that was Britain has now completely been destroyed. This country has long been on the way down, and honestly not a lot can save it. You can all huff, puff and disagree all you want, but the fact is, the UK has lost pretty much all its power (even within our own country) due to stupidity, idiotic decisions, cowardliness and greed. It's a shame because everything our ancestors worked for we have all taken for granted and let it slide from our greedy hands.

The idea of an empire in this day and age is hillarious. Whatever about domestic issues but good riddance to the British Empire. Most empires get reduced to the source.

Not that I'm doubting it's importance. Countries invading eachother is how mankind as a species actually managed to progress because ideas, concepts and inventions were spread across the globe. Sure a ton of people got brutally killed but that's just how the world used to be. And to be fair to the British Empire, half the time they eventually would just buy out the country they were invading.

But that was the past. Empires and monarchys are miserable, draconian ideas that belong in the ground. And in terms of domestic problems Britain has always had domestic problems. Different generations pose differtent problems and you could sit around comparing them till the cows come home.

That's why these bold declerations of 'the flag is dead! our nation is going under!' always annoy me. People ten years ago said that, people twenty years ago said that, people fifty years ago said that. People always have said it and they always were wrong. Relatively speaking Britain isin't that bad a place to call your home, is it. It's got issues but it's not dying anytime soon. It just needs to sort a few things out.

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by Stu

It just needs to sort a few things out.

starting with bitchslapping judges like this out of power. They're totally out of touch with public opinion.

sometimes you have to wonder which side of the law they're on.