[Smithy]

Please watch it before you comment.

But I honestly just find it gobsmacking that people can watch this, see the state we’re in and think everything is ok, or that enough has been done

[Liam-]

‘But NZ is so much smaller than us, god stop the stupid comparisons!!’

[arista]

Originally Posted by Liam-

‘But NZ is so much smaller than us, god stop the stupid comparisons!!’

Less population.

[The Slim Reaper]

People aren't interested. I posted this last night, and folks automatically assume it's more about comparing countries than leadership.

[Niamh.]

She is an amazing leader tbf

[Oliver_W]

She's definitely showing better leadership. But it really is easier to handle a crisis like this when an entire country has about half the population of London, they're controlling their borders, and citizens returning there are required to isolate.

[Smithy]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

She's definitely showing better leadership. But it really is easier to handle a crisis like this when an entire country has about half the population of London, they're controlling their borders, and citizens returning there are required to isolate.

Which is exactly what we should have done

[MTVN]

I mean it is fair to point out that containing the virus in NZ is a million times more manageable than the UK. Be interested to see the dates on all the footage as well - NZ did not have any cases till March whereas we now know that it was in Europe already in December. Careful editing by Momentum as well as usual - cuts off the PM in the This Morning interview just before he says that letting it 'move through the population' was only one theory and he thought we should take a different approach

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by MTVN

I mean it is fair to point out that containing the virus in NZ is a million times more manageable than the UK. Be interested to see the dates on all the footage as well - NZ did not have any cases till March whereas we now know that it was in Europe already in December. Careful editing by Momentum as well as usual - cuts off the PM in the This Morning interview just before he says that letting it 'move through the population' was only one theory and he thought we should take a different approach

At the same time his government were pursuing that exact policy though.

[DouglasS]

Very highly edited video portraying a narrative.

It’s indefinitely eaisier to control a virus with a country on an island with a far smaller population. The thing about exponential growth is that if the population is far smaller And isolated, the problem is almost exponentially eaisier to deal with. Not to say New Zealand haven’t done a tremendous job as they clearly have, but it’s not possible to even compare the U.K. or US to that situation as it’s just entirely different. Outside of London weve done relatively well, which is almost like comparing that to New Zealand

[arista]

Yes I watched it Smithy


Very Clever Editing by the Labour crew.
Johnson PM made many errors.

[Samm]

Jacinda has been the most impressive leader throughout the world she’s amazing, along with Merkel

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

At the same time his government were pursuing that exact policy though.

It was never to let it spread through the population unfettered, the thinking was that that was inevitable anyway one way or the other but that it should be contained as much as possible when cases were low and then the spread delayed so that the spread of infection was manageable

[Cherie]

She is a great leader, and Boris et al have made mistakes, but its not a comparable scenario, for a start 9 million masks would be eaten up in London in a week.

The unfortunate thing about idle comparisons like this is that gives grist to the mill of extreme right wingers regarding immigration and overcrowding in some of our cities, and the narrative is being pushed by the left ironically, you are 4 times more likely to die if you are black, and you are more likely to live in a crowded city as well.

Analysis from the Office for National Statistics found that black men and women were more than four times more likely to die after contracting Covid-19 than those of white ethnicity,

[Cherie]

I also posted this in the other thread but given no one responded here it is again

Why is Sweden not being held up for examination by Europe as to its herd immunity policy

and

can someone explain the following

Both countries with a similar population of 10 Million


Covid Deaths
Belgium :8,016
Portugal:1,074

Both locked down 17th March


NB Belgium are counting care home deaths

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by MTVN

It was never to let it spread through the population unfettered, the thinking was that that was inevitable anyway one way or the other but that it should be contained as much as possible when cases were low and then the spread delayed so that the spread of infection was manageable

Contained as much as possible and herd immunity are pretty incompatible practices, and we definitely know that herd immunity was their 1st and preferred strategy. I accept that was revised after the dire projections started to come back in, but we all know what cummings said about sacrificing older people. A new virus spreading through a population full of new hosts is impossible to contain without the right actions to prevent the spread. The words don't match up with what actually happened, and I know some gov ministers to this day still refuse to say that herd immunity was ever even their strategy at all.

[Liam-]

Boris told us we should just let it move through the population and just ‘take it on the chin’, it was most certainly their ‘strategy’ to let as many people as possible to get infected

[Brother Leon]

Still can’t believe he had the cheek to really say “Our apparent success”
The delusion is unreal.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Boris told us we should just let it move through the population and just ‘take it on the chin’, it was most certainly their ‘strategy’ to let as many people as possible to get infected

Yes he did, no one is disputing that at all?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

People aren't interested. I posted this last night, and folks automatically assume it's more about comparing countries than leadership.

The UK leadership (Westminster in general) being a ****ing bouncy castle of clowns just isn't news, though. Did we really need Covid for people to say "omg our leadership is a mess"? It not specific to this situation, or even this government, in the slightest... I personally can't stand it when people feign "omg shocking" when a light is shone on it in a new situation. It isn't "shocking"... it isn't "news"... it's standard UK politics in the 21st century.

There's plenty of scope for discussing that but trying to directly link it to the Covid situation or the stats/numbers is a tenuous hypothesis and an unhelpful discussion.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Analysis from the Office for National Statistics found that black men and women were more than four times more likely to die after contracting Covid-19 than those of white ethnicity,

I'm surprised there's not a thread for this tbh

I do wonder if it's a genetic thing, like how some races are more likely to get some diseases or disabilities than others; or if it's due to how many of our front liners are BAME, so are more likely to come across it. Or is it because they're more likely to live in big cities, which are basically Petri dishes at the best of times...

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

I'm surprised there's not a thread for this tbh

I do wonder if it's a genetic thing, like how some races are more likely to get some diseases or disabilities than others; or if it's due to how many of our front liners are BAME, so are more likely to come across it. Or is it because they're more likely to live in big cities, which are basically Petri dishes at the best of times...

There definitely needs to be some research done into the reasons that BAME people are disproportionately affected, the same has been observed in NY, but it's a total unknown whether the factors are genetic or social. It really needs to be determined because it could mean a looming disaster for some nations that are still relatively unaffected.

[Tom4784]

It comes from tribalism, ego and misplaced loyalty.

The government has handled this situation terribly but you'll get Tory voters who see the government's failure as their own try and spin it to their benefit because doing so benefits their 'team'. These people treat politics like it's football and it's gross. Loyalty to political parties is ****ing stupid, you give them your votes and you take away that vote at the next election if they don't do what they said they were gonna do or if they **** up in a major way but a lot of Tory voters will vote blindly, often against their own interests, because they don't want to admit they were wrong and they want to 'own the libs' etc which is why, no matter what happens or how long it's been since Labour was in power, you'll still get Tory voters bleating on about labour governments although they've suffered the past ten years under the Tories.

Labour are irrelevant at this point yet you'd think they were still in power given how people use them to distract themselves from the decisions of the actual party in power.

You can't really justify how delayed and how callous the government's initial response to Covid was. Boris saw people as disposable and those same people would probably still cheer for him now, it's gross.

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The UK leadership (Westminster in general) being a ****ing bouncy castle of clowns just isn't news, though. Did we really need Covid for people to say "omg our leadership is a mess"? It not specific to this situation, or even this government, in the slightest... I personally can't stand it when people feign "omg shocking" when a light is shone on it in a new situation. It isn't "shocking"... it isn't "news"... it's standard UK politics in the 21st century.

There's plenty of scope for discussing that but trying to directly link it to the Covid situation or the stats/numbers is a tenuous hypothesis and an unhelpful discussion.

That's a lot of words about government when I specifically said it was about leadership, but you enjoy yourself.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Smithy

Which is exactly what we should have done

People were asked to self isolate if they had symptoms they didn't do it, remember the woman who returned from China and took an Uber to A and E with her symptoms

and there were loads who came back from Italy after half term who didn't either, they were on phone in's saying they had mild symptoms so were going to work anyway