[Kerry]

Many shops these days open until late but the run up until Christmas goes quite mad. For instance - my 'local' shopping centre (Meadowhall) has announced all next week their shops are open until midnight

Now, is this a good thing? Part time jobs for people willing to work so late? More overtime for current staff? Great for those who can't get there in "normal" hours? Or just plain unfair to staff?

[Angus]

Originally Posted by ~Kerry~

Many shops these days open until late but the run up until Christmas goes quite mad. For instance - my 'local' shopping centre (Meadowhall) has announced all next week their shops are open until midnight

Now, is this a good thing? Part time jobs for people willing to work so late? More overtime for current staff? Great for those who can't get there in "normal" hours? Or just plain unfair to staff?

How about just plain greedy with no thought for the poor staff who also have families and homes to go to? Both my sons work in retail and between November and January no staff are allowed to take time off, other than their normal days off. As they are both management, they are also expected to put in loads of extra time without overtime. Recently there have been several midnight launches of new video games and Kinect all of which my eldest son, as Manager, had to attend. At one of them, they had just three customers!

It's funny too how normal "health and safety" doesn't seem to apply to night workers who are more at risk of attacks and shoplifting since there are generally fewer staff late at night. At one midnight launch, my son had to call the police as a mini riot ensued when a gang of teenagers ran amok in the store. There's also the little matter of staff having to travel home in the early hours of the morning - ok if you have transport, a nightmare if you don't.

I can only say that anyone who goes christmas shopping at midnight seriously needs to go get a life. Even people who work unsocial hours still get a couple of days off a week to go shopping so where's the justification in making people work all hours?

[Jessica.]

People prefer to shop late at night around Christmas so kids don't see their presents? That's the only reasoning I have seen behind it.

[Kerry]

KH - I have worked in retail all my working life. It's one of the reasons I started this debate. Where I worked was open from 7am until 9pm no matter what time of year it was and I did the late shift until gone 9pm and hated it

I just wanted peoples views on the matter

[Barbie]

I work til 10pm alot of evenings, its our normal hours, i choose to do them so it doesn't bother me. The only time we cant take off is on stocktake, around christmas people can take time off and others will cover their shift in overtime. guess i just have good management. Seems unfair to force people to work because the shops want to stay open late.

[Tom]

I work in retail and the company I work for allows the staff to do have as much time off as they want providing they meet their contract hours. Everyone is contracted to just 10 hours per week but we try and give everyone at least 20-30 hours where possible. Noone is ever forced to work bank holidays or hours they don't want because they're too late etc and because I'm in charge of the hours I try to meet with each individual member of staff quite frequently and review their hours and if they need any time off coming up. If the store ever happens to extend its opening hours, we'll often let the staff decide who does what shift and if it comes to it the management (about 4 or 5 of us) will just do that shift. Most people I work with are students or people with families so its not really fair to expect them to work all hours. I don't know how other stores operate though and if they're that lenient, I imagine not in a lot of cases.

[30stone]

I work til 8 on sunday
10 on mondays
10 on turesday.

Id refuse to work until midnight..

But if people want to, and want the extra money then why not..

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Mistletoe-Kiss

I work til 8 on sunday
10 on mondays
10 on turesday.

Id refuse to work until midnight..

But if people want to, and want the extra money then why not..

Fair enough, as long as the regular staff aren't coerced into doing unsocial hours. Let the stores take on temporary workers if necessary, but unfortunately most of them don't. Staff working till midnight are also expected to get themselves home afterwards which, as I said before,is okay if you have your own transport but not if you have to go on public transport , if it's still running! The late night buses and trains are usually filled with aggressive drunks and other unsavoury characters, at least they have been when I've had occasion to use them.

[Tom4784]

I hate it really, A lot of my friends work in retail so I don't get to see them much in the run up to christmas.

[Malza]

Originally Posted by King Herod

How about just plain greedy with no thought for the poor staff who also have families and homes to go to? Both my sons work in retail and between November and January no staff are allowed to take time off, other than their normal days off. As they are both management, they are also expected to put in loads of extra time without overtime. Recently there have been several midnight launches of new video games and Kinect all of which my eldest son, as Manager, had to attend. At one of them, they had just three customers!

It's funny too how normal "health and safety" doesn't seem to apply to night workers who are more at risk of attacks and shoplifting since there are generally fewer staff late at night. At one midnight launch, my son had to call the police as a mini riot ensued when a gang of teenagers ran amok in the store. There's also the little matter of staff having to travel home in the early hours of the morning - ok if you have transport, a nightmare if you don't.

I can only say that anyone who goes christmas shopping at midnight seriously needs to go get a life. Even people who work unsocial hours still get a couple of days off a week to go shopping so where's the justification in making people work all hours?

I have a different opinion on that, simply because I regularly work late shifts, weekends and on bank holidays myself... And not only for one month a year.

Strangly everyone suddenly starts to worry about shop staff when it comes to longer opening times, while other people constantly have to work this sort of shifts.

Also, those people get the extra hours paid, or get other free days for it, it's not like they suddenly have no life left.
And normal shift people are often thankful to have the option to get some shopping done after work, and not just go on the weekends when the citys are full.

I bet you would complain, if all nurses or physicians would go home early, if firefighters would not work at night or weekends... If your morning Newspaper would not be in the store at 6am, the bakery next door would not provide fresh bread (which had to be prepared all night) no transport would deliver stuff during nights... etc. etc. etc.

I just find it a bit hypocrite to find this an unreasonable demand for Shop employees while you (and everyone else) take so much benefit out of people working late or night shifts the whole year.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Jack Skellington

I have a different opinion on that, simply because I regularly work late shifts, weekends and on bank holidays myself... And not only for one month a year.

Strangly everyone suddenly starts to worry about shop staff when it comes to longer opening times, while other people constantly have to work this sort of shifts.

Also, those people get the extra hours paid, or get other free days for it, it's not like they suddenly have no life left.
And normal shift people are often thankful to have the option to get some shopping done after work, and not just go on the weekends when the citys are full.

I bet you would complain, if all nurses or physicians would go home early, if firefighters would not work at night or weekends... If your morning Newspaper would not be in the store at 6am, the bakery next door would not provide fresh bread (which had to be prepared all night) no transport would deliver stuff during nights... etc. etc. etc.

I just find it a bit hypocrite to find this an unreasonable demand for Shop employees while you (and everyone else) take so much benefit out of people working late or night shifts the whole year.

Most people who do shift work know that is what they have signed up to, ie emergency services, doctors etc. and most public sector workers also get good pensions and housing subsidies etc so they are well rewarded for their shift working, therefore I fully expect 24 hour service from such workers who are well proteced from the harsh realities faced by those working in the private sector.

I don't know what the going rate is in Germany for retail workers but here it's barely subsistence level. Many companies do NOT pay their shop staff overtime, instead giving them time off in lieu which still has to be negotiated. So before you start mouthing off about the retail sector in the UK be sure of your facts. I'm sure your wages more than compensate you for your regular shift work unless you're a complete moron who likes to give your time for nothing. The retail sector here in the UK is very low paid and work longer hours than many other workers, so why should they be expected to do such late shifts to accommodate better paid workers in public sector jobs who want to shop at midnight? Let those workers use their often far more generous time off to do their shopping at more reasonable hours.

[Malza]

Originally Posted by King Herod

Most people who do shift work know that is what they have signed up to, ie emergency services, doctors etc. and most public sector workers also get good pensions and housing subsidies etc so they are well rewarded for their shift working, therefore I fully expect 24 hour service from such workers who are well proteced from the harsh realities faced by those working in the private sector.

I don't know what the going rate is in Germany for retail workers but here it's barely subsistence level. Many companies do NOT pay their shop staff overtime, instead giving them time off in lieu which still has to be negotiated. So before you start mouthing off about the retail sector in the UK be sure of your facts. I'm sure your wages more than compensate you for your regular shift work unless you're a complete moron who likes to give your time for nothing. The retail sector here in the UK is very low paid and work longer hours than many other workers, so why should they be expected to do such late shifts to accommodate better paid workers in public sector jobs who want to shop at midnight? Let those workers use their often far more generous time off to do their shopping at more reasonable hours.

Here in Germany they also have shortened the extra payment for those shifts to a minimum. And I know this sort of jobs are underpaid anyway.

For working on a Sunday I get exactly 78 Euro extra netto (Not really sure if that's a proper amount to cover up a day with friends and family) And actually I have a very well paid job.

And I also did not sign for doing the amount of late shifts I have to do in the past years, I only have to do them because we have less and less employees.

But again. We are talking about doing this for one month per year, not the whole year.

My point is only, that there are lot's of people (also really bad paid ones) who work like that all the time, but they are never mentioned, but when it comes to Christmas I always hear the same conversations about shop staff.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Jack Skellington

Here in Germany they also have shortened the extra payment for those shifts to a minimum. And I know this sort of jobs are underpaid anyway.

For working on a Sunday I get exactly 78 Euro extra netto (Not really sure if that's a proper amount to cover up a day with friends and family) And actually I have a very well paid job.

And I also did not sign for doing the amount of late shifts I have to do in the past years, I only have to do them because we have less and less employees.

But again. We are talking about doing this for one month per year, not the whole year.

My point is only, that there are lot's of people (also really bad paid ones) who work like that all the time, but they are never mentioned, but when it comes to Christmas I always hear the same conversations about shop staff.

I took your point about many people working shifts all year round, but these are usually people who signed up for that sort of working pattern and who are well compensated in terms of pensions, holidays and subsidised housing etc for their types of work. Retail workers here are among the lowest paid, with some shop assistants who work in the West End of London earning as little as £13,000 per annum for 40 hours a week, which is subject to tax and national insurance, commuting fares etc. Many shop and catering jobs pay minimum wage with no subsidies or perks enjoyed by workers in the public sector, or in heavily unionised industries and occupations like the rail service, London Undergound etc. In the suburbs, the wages can be much lower.

With all due respect 78 Euros nett for a Sunday would be absolutely riches to many workers here (that's around £60 nett right?) Most are lucky to earn an extra £15-20 nett - hardly compensation for missing out on their leisure time.
I can only comment from personal experience here - I can only assume that the retail sector is better paid and better protected elsewhere in the EU.

[Miss Ivy Balls]

Originally Posted by King Herod

Retail workers here are among the lowest paid, with some shop assistants who work in the West End of London earning as little as £13,000 per annum for 40 hours a week, which is subject to tax and national insurance, commuting fares etc.

Tell me about it.

I work doing restuarant and bar work.

I don't have set day and just go in whenever they need me really as I don't do anything else, although I am guaranteed a Wednesday shift.

Worked 47 hours last month and got £231.24!!!

£4.92 an hour.

So if I did that many hours in just a week, which would be more than full time then I'd get £231.24!!

The worst thing about it is that someone who works at the same place gets £6.00 an hour and they're the same age as me. Neither of us work full time and yet I'm on minimum wage and she's not. My boss didn't tell me this, obviously, but this girl in question did when I worked with her one day.

To piss on the chips, I don't even get paid on time. One month I didn't receive my wages until my next months wages were ready, meaning I was owed two months wages at once. I've never known a restuarant/bar to pay people monthly anyway as most people do it for the easy money, and lots of people come and go in that type of work.

This months wages I didn't receive in full and only got half, but because I'm soft I agreed to half and said I'd pick the other half up when I come in next. Apparently the wages weren't ready or some other stupid accuse, despite me asking on the 7th of the next month when I should have been paid at the end of the last month.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Miss Ivy Balls

Tell me about it.

I work doing restuarant and bar work.

I don't have set day and just go in whenever they need me really as I don't do anything else, although I am guaranteed a Wednesday shift.

Worked 47 hours last month and got £231.24!!!

£4.92 an hour.

So if I did that many hours in just a week, which would be more than full time then I'd get £231.24!!

The worst thing about it is that someone who works at the same place gets £6.00 an hour and they're the same age as me. Neither of us work full time and yet I'm on minimum wage and she's not. My boss didn't tell me this, obviously, but this girl in question did when I worked with her one day.

To piss on the chips, I don't even get paid on time. One month I didn't receive my wages until my next months wages were ready, meaning I was owed two months wages at once. I've never known a restuarant/bar to pay people monthly anyway as most people do it for the easy money, and lots of people come and go in that type of work.

This months wages I didn't receive in full and only got half, but because I'm soft I agreed to half and said I'd pick the other half up when I come in next. Apparently the wages weren't ready or some other stupid accuse, despite me asking on the 7th of the next month when I should have been paid at the end of the last month.

That's just pure exploitation and the restaurant is actually breaking the law. The reason a lot of these type of employers get away with it is because staff are reluctant to take things further because jobs are so scarce and there's so many illegal workers willing to work for next to nothing.

But you do have rights especially if you are doing so many hours. I would ring up the Jobcentre who will advise you what to do or citizens advice, but it all depends on individual circumstances really but then I guess they would terminate your employment. Unfortunately, casual and part time workers are the least protected in this country. Hope you get your missing wages - I bet the owner wouldn't work for nothing

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by ~Kerry~

Many shops these days open until late but the run up until Christmas goes quite mad. For instance - my 'local' shopping centre (Meadowhall) has announced all next week their shops are open until midnight

Now, is this a good thing? Part time jobs for people willing to work so late? More overtime for current staff? Great for those who can't get there in "normal" hours? Or just plain unfair to staff?

Lot of arguments for and against.

On the plus side: no one can be forced to work unsocial hours if it's not in their employment contract.

such late hour open, give rise to people being able to take on either part time work they wouldn't normally be able to / extra part time work to supplement their income at a time of year where extra money comes in handy.

As for those working the very late shifts: they will benefit from having time off earlier in the day that they can utilise that they may not normally have such time on their hands.

Many other workers aren't able to swop shifts to suit, many are regimented to the 8-6 / 9-5 routine and late opening hours are a godsend to some.

It's all relative I guess, given that we live in a society whereby 24hour shopping needs to fit in with the 24 hour lifestyle that many of us lead.

Years ago, I worked full time dayshift and then went straight to into working in a cocktail bar - often till 3am. Gut busting and tiring but from a financial point of view: very worthwhile. That was my choice to do that, besides, I actually loved the bar work. Hard graft it was, but wearing a nice long evening dress and mixing with lovely customers: much as it was work, it often felt as though you were also benefitting from a certain amount of socialising (and being paid very well for it into the bargain).

It's a very individual choice.

[Miss Ivy Balls]

Originally Posted by King Herod

That's just pure exploitation and the restaurant is actually breaking the law. The reason a lot of these type of employers get away with it is because staff are reluctant to take things further because jobs are so scarce and there's so many illegal workers willing to work for next to nothing.

But you do have rights especially if you are doing so many hours. I would ring up the Jobcentre who will advise you what to do or citizens advice, but it all depends on individual circumstances really but then I guess they would terminate your employment. Unfortunately, casual and part time workers are the least protected in this country. Hope you get your missing wages - I bet the owner wouldn't work for nothing

Thanks. I'll definitely get them as I don't think my boss is that way. She wouldn't just not pay me, but if the truth is known I think she is struggling to pay the staff hence the stupid excuse of only being able to give me half.

You're right about staff being reluctant to take things further as this is exactly how I feel. I feel bad because she's only a young lady and new to the industry and the business isn't doing the best.

Minimum wage is minimum wage and I'm bound to have a moan at getting paid £4.92 as I work really hard. What annoyed me is when I found out someone the same age as me gets £6.00 an hour. That's an extra £1.07p which adds up when you times that by 47. Problem is that I don't have the guts to say anything because I feel for her. I'm too soft really, but I can't help that. This girl who gets paid £6.00 an hour does sod all either, whereas I work hard. She's one of those types who can't be bothered and goes out for fag breaks whenever she wants - I'm sure you can picture the rest yourself.

Oh well. Never mind.

[Benjamin]

I currently work in hospitality and a few of my staff members whinge and whine because they have to work over the Christmas period, late nights and a few on Christmas day (although the ones working opted to work that day).

If you choose to work in hospitality, then you have to expect to work these kind of hours/shifts. It's common knowledge. If they don't like it, leave. Simple as really. Whinging about it won't change it.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by XmasTurtle

I currently work in hospitality and a few of my staff members whinge and whine because they have to work over the Christmas period, late nights and a few on Christmas day (although the ones working opted to work that day).

If you choose to work in hospitality, then you have to expect to work these kind of hours/shifts. It's common knowledge. If they don't like it, leave. Simple as really. Whinging about it won't change it.

I do tend to agree. I used to make 3 times my nightly wages in tips doing cocktail bar/waitressing work - made a mint and as people tended to be in extremely happy upbeat moods due to the 'festive spirit' - it was more than worthwhile working the long hours. I have to say, it might have been bloody knackering at time, but there was a much fun and joviality to be had with the customers - which in turn - brought in higher tips.

Making money was my motivator at the time, and I certainly didn't complain.