[Angus]

Originally Posted by ~Kerry~

Many shops these days open until late but the run up until Christmas goes quite mad. For instance - my 'local' shopping centre (Meadowhall) has announced all next week their shops are open until midnight

Now, is this a good thing? Part time jobs for people willing to work so late? More overtime for current staff? Great for those who can't get there in "normal" hours? Or just plain unfair to staff?

How about just plain greedy with no thought for the poor staff who also have families and homes to go to? Both my sons work in retail and between November and January no staff are allowed to take time off, other than their normal days off. As they are both management, they are also expected to put in loads of extra time without overtime. Recently there have been several midnight launches of new video games and Kinect all of which my eldest son, as Manager, had to attend. At one of them, they had just three customers!

It's funny too how normal "health and safety" doesn't seem to apply to night workers who are more at risk of attacks and shoplifting since there are generally fewer staff late at night. At one midnight launch, my son had to call the police as a mini riot ensued when a gang of teenagers ran amok in the store. There's also the little matter of staff having to travel home in the early hours of the morning - ok if you have transport, a nightmare if you don't.

I can only say that anyone who goes christmas shopping at midnight seriously needs to go get a life. Even people who work unsocial hours still get a couple of days off a week to go shopping so where's the justification in making people work all hours?

[Kerry]

KH - I have worked in retail all my working life. It's one of the reasons I started this debate. Where I worked was open from 7am until 9pm no matter what time of year it was and I did the late shift until gone 9pm and hated it

I just wanted peoples views on the matter

[Malza]

Originally Posted by King Herod

How about just plain greedy with no thought for the poor staff who also have families and homes to go to? Both my sons work in retail and between November and January no staff are allowed to take time off, other than their normal days off. As they are both management, they are also expected to put in loads of extra time without overtime. Recently there have been several midnight launches of new video games and Kinect all of which my eldest son, as Manager, had to attend. At one of them, they had just three customers!

It's funny too how normal "health and safety" doesn't seem to apply to night workers who are more at risk of attacks and shoplifting since there are generally fewer staff late at night. At one midnight launch, my son had to call the police as a mini riot ensued when a gang of teenagers ran amok in the store. There's also the little matter of staff having to travel home in the early hours of the morning - ok if you have transport, a nightmare if you don't.

I can only say that anyone who goes christmas shopping at midnight seriously needs to go get a life. Even people who work unsocial hours still get a couple of days off a week to go shopping so where's the justification in making people work all hours?

I have a different opinion on that, simply because I regularly work late shifts, weekends and on bank holidays myself... And not only for one month a year.

Strangly everyone suddenly starts to worry about shop staff when it comes to longer opening times, while other people constantly have to work this sort of shifts.

Also, those people get the extra hours paid, or get other free days for it, it's not like they suddenly have no life left.
And normal shift people are often thankful to have the option to get some shopping done after work, and not just go on the weekends when the citys are full.

I bet you would complain, if all nurses or physicians would go home early, if firefighters would not work at night or weekends... If your morning Newspaper would not be in the store at 6am, the bakery next door would not provide fresh bread (which had to be prepared all night) no transport would deliver stuff during nights... etc. etc. etc.

I just find it a bit hypocrite to find this an unreasonable demand for Shop employees while you (and everyone else) take so much benefit out of people working late or night shifts the whole year.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Jack Skellington

I have a different opinion on that, simply because I regularly work late shifts, weekends and on bank holidays myself... And not only for one month a year.

Strangly everyone suddenly starts to worry about shop staff when it comes to longer opening times, while other people constantly have to work this sort of shifts.

Also, those people get the extra hours paid, or get other free days for it, it's not like they suddenly have no life left.
And normal shift people are often thankful to have the option to get some shopping done after work, and not just go on the weekends when the citys are full.

I bet you would complain, if all nurses or physicians would go home early, if firefighters would not work at night or weekends... If your morning Newspaper would not be in the store at 6am, the bakery next door would not provide fresh bread (which had to be prepared all night) no transport would deliver stuff during nights... etc. etc. etc.

I just find it a bit hypocrite to find this an unreasonable demand for Shop employees while you (and everyone else) take so much benefit out of people working late or night shifts the whole year.

Most people who do shift work know that is what they have signed up to, ie emergency services, doctors etc. and most public sector workers also get good pensions and housing subsidies etc so they are well rewarded for their shift working, therefore I fully expect 24 hour service from such workers who are well proteced from the harsh realities faced by those working in the private sector.

I don't know what the going rate is in Germany for retail workers but here it's barely subsistence level. Many companies do NOT pay their shop staff overtime, instead giving them time off in lieu which still has to be negotiated. So before you start mouthing off about the retail sector in the UK be sure of your facts. I'm sure your wages more than compensate you for your regular shift work unless you're a complete moron who likes to give your time for nothing. The retail sector here in the UK is very low paid and work longer hours than many other workers, so why should they be expected to do such late shifts to accommodate better paid workers in public sector jobs who want to shop at midnight? Let those workers use their often far more generous time off to do their shopping at more reasonable hours.

[Malza]

Originally Posted by King Herod

Most people who do shift work know that is what they have signed up to, ie emergency services, doctors etc. and most public sector workers also get good pensions and housing subsidies etc so they are well rewarded for their shift working, therefore I fully expect 24 hour service from such workers who are well proteced from the harsh realities faced by those working in the private sector.

I don't know what the going rate is in Germany for retail workers but here it's barely subsistence level. Many companies do NOT pay their shop staff overtime, instead giving them time off in lieu which still has to be negotiated. So before you start mouthing off about the retail sector in the UK be sure of your facts. I'm sure your wages more than compensate you for your regular shift work unless you're a complete moron who likes to give your time for nothing. The retail sector here in the UK is very low paid and work longer hours than many other workers, so why should they be expected to do such late shifts to accommodate better paid workers in public sector jobs who want to shop at midnight? Let those workers use their often far more generous time off to do their shopping at more reasonable hours.

Here in Germany they also have shortened the extra payment for those shifts to a minimum. And I know this sort of jobs are underpaid anyway.

For working on a Sunday I get exactly 78 Euro extra netto (Not really sure if that's a proper amount to cover up a day with friends and family) And actually I have a very well paid job.

And I also did not sign for doing the amount of late shifts I have to do in the past years, I only have to do them because we have less and less employees.

But again. We are talking about doing this for one month per year, not the whole year.

My point is only, that there are lot's of people (also really bad paid ones) who work like that all the time, but they are never mentioned, but when it comes to Christmas I always hear the same conversations about shop staff.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Jack Skellington

Here in Germany they also have shortened the extra payment for those shifts to a minimum. And I know this sort of jobs are underpaid anyway.

For working on a Sunday I get exactly 78 Euro extra netto (Not really sure if that's a proper amount to cover up a day with friends and family) And actually I have a very well paid job.

And I also did not sign for doing the amount of late shifts I have to do in the past years, I only have to do them because we have less and less employees.

But again. We are talking about doing this for one month per year, not the whole year.

My point is only, that there are lot's of people (also really bad paid ones) who work like that all the time, but they are never mentioned, but when it comes to Christmas I always hear the same conversations about shop staff.

I took your point about many people working shifts all year round, but these are usually people who signed up for that sort of working pattern and who are well compensated in terms of pensions, holidays and subsidised housing etc for their types of work. Retail workers here are among the lowest paid, with some shop assistants who work in the West End of London earning as little as £13,000 per annum for 40 hours a week, which is subject to tax and national insurance, commuting fares etc. Many shop and catering jobs pay minimum wage with no subsidies or perks enjoyed by workers in the public sector, or in heavily unionised industries and occupations like the rail service, London Undergound etc. In the suburbs, the wages can be much lower.

With all due respect 78 Euros nett for a Sunday would be absolutely riches to many workers here (that's around £60 nett right?) Most are lucky to earn an extra £15-20 nett - hardly compensation for missing out on their leisure time.
I can only comment from personal experience here - I can only assume that the retail sector is better paid and better protected elsewhere in the EU.

[Miss Ivy Balls]

Originally Posted by King Herod

Retail workers here are among the lowest paid, with some shop assistants who work in the West End of London earning as little as £13,000 per annum for 40 hours a week, which is subject to tax and national insurance, commuting fares etc.

Tell me about it.

I work doing restuarant and bar work.

I don't have set day and just go in whenever they need me really as I don't do anything else, although I am guaranteed a Wednesday shift.

Worked 47 hours last month and got £231.24!!!

£4.92 an hour.

So if I did that many hours in just a week, which would be more than full time then I'd get £231.24!!

The worst thing about it is that someone who works at the same place gets £6.00 an hour and they're the same age as me. Neither of us work full time and yet I'm on minimum wage and she's not. My boss didn't tell me this, obviously, but this girl in question did when I worked with her one day.

To piss on the chips, I don't even get paid on time. One month I didn't receive my wages until my next months wages were ready, meaning I was owed two months wages at once. I've never known a restuarant/bar to pay people monthly anyway as most people do it for the easy money, and lots of people come and go in that type of work.

This months wages I didn't receive in full and only got half, but because I'm soft I agreed to half and said I'd pick the other half up when I come in next. Apparently the wages weren't ready or some other stupid accuse, despite me asking on the 7th of the next month when I should have been paid at the end of the last month.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Miss Ivy Balls

Tell me about it.

I work doing restuarant and bar work.

I don't have set day and just go in whenever they need me really as I don't do anything else, although I am guaranteed a Wednesday shift.

Worked 47 hours last month and got £231.24!!!

£4.92 an hour.

So if I did that many hours in just a week, which would be more than full time then I'd get £231.24!!

The worst thing about it is that someone who works at the same place gets £6.00 an hour and they're the same age as me. Neither of us work full time and yet I'm on minimum wage and she's not. My boss didn't tell me this, obviously, but this girl in question did when I worked with her one day.

To piss on the chips, I don't even get paid on time. One month I didn't receive my wages until my next months wages were ready, meaning I was owed two months wages at once. I've never known a restuarant/bar to pay people monthly anyway as most people do it for the easy money, and lots of people come and go in that type of work.

This months wages I didn't receive in full and only got half, but because I'm soft I agreed to half and said I'd pick the other half up when I come in next. Apparently the wages weren't ready or some other stupid accuse, despite me asking on the 7th of the next month when I should have been paid at the end of the last month.

That's just pure exploitation and the restaurant is actually breaking the law. The reason a lot of these type of employers get away with it is because staff are reluctant to take things further because jobs are so scarce and there's so many illegal workers willing to work for next to nothing.

But you do have rights especially if you are doing so many hours. I would ring up the Jobcentre who will advise you what to do or citizens advice, but it all depends on individual circumstances really but then I guess they would terminate your employment. Unfortunately, casual and part time workers are the least protected in this country. Hope you get your missing wages - I bet the owner wouldn't work for nothing