[Ninastar]

Is it just me that gets really pissed off that this is even allowed?

(Not wearing burkas of course...)

[Kizzy]

Oh there's always going to be ignorant people, waste of energy trying to understand them

[Ramsay]

Nearly all types of ''SHARE and LIKE'' annoy me

[arista]

But Facebook is so big
so every type or viewpoint is on it

So its normal.

[Nedusa]

I agree it should be banned, it is obscene and indefensible to ask women to walk about in public covered head to foot like this.

Disgusting.........I don't agree with the aims and objectives of the BNP but on this particular issue I agree 100%

[T*]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

I agree it should be banned, it is obscene and indefensible to ask women to walk about in public covered head to foot like this.

Disgusting.........I don't agree with the aims and objectives of the BNP but on this particular issue I agree 100%

[2]

[Black Dagger]

-rolleyes-

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

I agree it should be banned, it is obscene and indefensible to ask women to walk about in public covered head to foot like this.

Disgusting.........I don't agree with the aims and objectives of the BNP but on this particular issue I agree 100%

It's not for us to demand it though I think, I think the women who actually wear them are the ones who have to fight for that, if that's what they want. Personally I can't even begin to understand how they would want to wear those things and I think it's down to brain washing and sexism within their culture but they still need to realize that for themselves and fight for change themselves, you can't force people to think how you do

[MTVN]

People actually share BNP propaganda?

Would probably just unfriend anyone who did that

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

It's not for us to demand it though I think, I think the women who actually wear them are the ones who have to fight for that, if that's what they want. Personally I can't even begin to understand how they would want to wear those things and I think it's down to brain washing and sexism within their culture but they still need to realize that for themselves and fight for change themselves, you can't force people to think how you do

Exactly. They're not legally forced to wear it and that's as far as the law needs to be involved. Banning something for the sake of freedom is a complete oxymoron. People should be able to wear what they want... Whether or not the cultural elements / women from certain cultures (it's not actually a religious issue) of women feeling forced, or being culturally brainwashed, into wearing them is "a problem", is a completely separate issue, and one that won't be addressed by "banning".

On top of that, I get the distinct impression that the BNPs desire to ban isn't because they feel that these women shouldn't have to wear them, but rather because they don't want to see it.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Exactly. They're not legally forced to wear it and that's as far as the law needs to be involved. Banning something for the sake of freedom is a complete oxymoron. People should be able to wear what they want... Whether or not the cultural elements / women from certain cultures (it's not actually a religious issue) of women feeling forced, or being culturally brainwashed, into wearing them is "a problem", is a completely separate issue, and one that won't be addressed by "banning".

On top of that, I get the distinct impression that the BNPs desire to ban isn't because they feel that these women shouldn't have to wear them, but rather because they don't want to see it.

Yep, absolutely.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

I agree it should be banned, it is obscene and indefensible to ask women to walk about in public covered head to foot like this.

Disgusting.........I don't agree with the aims and objectives of the BNP but on this particular issue I agree 100%

bang On Right

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

It's not for us to demand it though I think, I think the women who actually wear them are the ones who have to fight for that, if that's what they want. Personally I can't even begin to understand how they would want to wear those things and I think it's down to brain washing and sexism within their culture but they still need to realize that for themselves and fight for change themselves, you can't force people to think how you do

We're talking about a culture where in some quarters, women are denied education and medical treatment. I'm not sure a fight over wearing the burka is one they'd have the appetite for. I know there are some women in the UK and other liberal places, who say it's their right to wear the burka. But equally, there are many women in the world who have this oppressive garment forced on them. If women want to wear things that adhere to their religion, headscarves for instance, then that's up to them. But to have to wear something that covers everything but your eyes - and some burkas have a lace panel so that you can't see their eyes either - simply because you're a women sounds ridiculous to me.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

We're talking about a culture where in some quarters, women are denied education and medical treatment. I'm not sure a fight over wearing the burka is one they'd have the appetite for. I know there are some women in the UK and other liberal places, who say it's their right to wear the burka. But equally, there are many women in the world who have this oppressive garment forced on them. If women want to wear things that adhere to their religion, headscarves for instance, then that's up to them. But to have to wear something that covers everything but your eyes - and some burkas have a lace panel so that you can't see their eyes either - simply because you're a women sounds ridiculous to me.

Me too, don't get me wrong, I just don't think you can force a ban on them when most of these women will tell you they want to wear them (even if that is down to brain washing or fear)

[Crimson Dynamo]

Its only by a ban will these religions realise that this country is not as backward as the one they came from. No mate, here women are equal and your mental religion is not welcome.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Its only by a ban will these religions realise that this country is not as backward as the one they came from. No mate, here women are equal and your mental religion is not welcome.

That is of course resting on the assumption that everyone who wears the burka is an immigrant. But then most of the arguments against the burka are based on assumptions.

[Me. I Am Salman]

there is not one woman in my ENTIRE family & extended family that wears the full on burkha, not one, and the majority are religious. It's not widespread or obligatory at all, these women really are choosing to wear it themselves. as for people babbling on about 'sexism' well there is no compulsion in Islam nor does anyone have the right to judge another, and there are different ideas of 'liberation'. you need to realise that the western way of thinking isn't the only correct one and shouldn't override other cultures and traditions. for instance these women would probably see the western style of dress as oppressive, and would express disgust at the fact that women are actually paid to take their clothes off over here. personally I don't see any style of dress as a product of sexism, it's simply down to choice. don't get why it's so hard for people to think the same way

the only legitimate argument for banning the burkha would be security or identification purposes, but only in like the workplace or something, not outside

[Z]

Originally Posted by Salman!

there is not one woman in my ENTIRE family & extended family that wears the full on burkha, not one, and the majority are religious. It's not widespread or obligatory at all, these women really are choosing to wear it themselves. as for people babbling on about 'sexism' well there is no compulsion in Islam nor does anyone have the right to judge another, and there are different ideas of 'liberation'. you need to realise that the western way of thinking isn't the only correct one and shouldn't override other cultures and traditions. for instance these women would probably see the western style of dress as oppressive, and would express disgust at the fact that women are actually paid to take their clothes off over here. personally I don't see any style of dress as a product of sexism, it's simply down to choice. don't get why it's so hard for people to think the same way

the only legitimate argument for banning the burkha would be security or identification purposes, but only in like the workplace or something, not outside

Fantastic post Salman

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Livia

We're talking about a culture where in some quarters, women are denied education and medical treatment. I'm not sure a fight over wearing the burka is one they'd have the appetite for. I know there are some women in the UK and other liberal places, who say it's their right to wear the burka. But equally, there are many women in the world who have this oppressive garment forced on them. If women want to wear things that adhere to their religion, headscarves for instance, then that's up to them. But to have to wear something that covers everything but your eyes - and some burkas have a lace panel so that you can't see their eyes either - simply because you're a women sounds ridiculous to me.

I completely agree with this, I don't think for a second that it's a good thing that they're made to feel forced to wear them or that they're raised in such a way that they feel like they actually "want to" (as is often the case, but let's face it, it's simple brainwashing).

However - you can't force freedom. Banning any item of clothing in the name of freedom is not only illogical, but it's the start of a slippery slope that will inevitably only end in fewer freedoms for everyone.

Banning it achieves absolutely nothing in terms of improving quality of life. In fact, if anything, the culture is so strong that I can see many women - if the Burka was banned - simply not being allowed to go out in public at all. The issue is one that needs tackled but it's the cause that needs tackling, oppressive cultural norms that don't really have any place in the world going forward. The Burka is just a symptom.

[Me. I Am Salman]

Originally Posted by Z

Fantastic post Salman

lol thanks

[Kizzy]

I don't feel the BNP are the right people to be asking for anyone to consider anyones 'rights' frankly.
I would leave that to those without a fascist agenda.

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Exactly. They're not legally forced to wear it and that's as far as the law needs to be involved. Banning something for the sake of freedom is a complete oxymoron. People should be able to wear what they want... Whether or not the cultural elements / women from certain cultures (it's not actually a religious issue) of women feeling forced, or being culturally brainwashed, into wearing them is "a problem", is a completely separate issue, and one that won't be addressed by "banning".

On top of that, I get the distinct impression that the BNPs desire to ban isn't because they feel that these women shouldn't have to wear them, but rather because they don't want to see it.

Normally I would agree with your premise that banning something for the sake of freedom is counterproductive to freedom, but in this case I feel the law needs to step in and help these women.

Women from families with very strong islamic views are conditioned and eventually bullied to adhere to this type of anachronistic behaviour regardless of how repugnant it is.

they really have no choice when it comes to this particular form of slavery, they would receive extreme physical punishment and in some extreme cases possibly death through so called honour killings for refusing to wear this type of "clothing".

I believe like the French Govt that wearing this type of extreme garb is a form of female repression and subjugation under the veneer of religious choice.

I think these women have no choice and no freedom and would benefit from some form of legal cover which bans full face garments like these on moral,legal and safety grounds.

Otherwise this disgusting practice will continue unabated for years possibly decades to come.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Salman!

there is not one woman in my ENTIRE family & extended family that wears the full on burkha, not one, and the majority are religious. It's not widespread or obligatory at all, these women really are choosing to wear it themselves. as for people babbling on about 'sexism' well there is no compulsion in Islam nor does anyone have the right to judge another, and there are different ideas of 'liberation'. you need to realise that the western way of thinking isn't the only correct one and shouldn't override other cultures and traditions. for instance these women would probably see the western style of dress as oppressive, and would express disgust at the fact that women are actually paid to take their clothes off over here. personally I don't see any style of dress as a product of sexism, it's simply down to choice. don't get why it's so hard for people to think the same way

the only legitimate argument for banning the burkha would be security or identification purposes, but only in like the workplace or something, not outside

It is a cultural issue rather than a religious one as I said in a previous post, however, I think you're being a little short-sighted... wither deliberately or defensively. The fact that it's not a religious obligation is not immediately followed by an assumption that they women are [truly] "choosing to wear it themselves". Culturally, the families in which wearing the full Burka is commonplace are run in an extremely patriarchal manner and the fact that it's not demanded by religion does not mean that it's not enforced by the family / community itself. The fact that this doesn't apply to your family does not imply that it doesn't happen in other families. It doesn't. Of course, that's not to say that there isn't oppression (and not only of women) in all sorts of families from all different faiths / non-faiths... but, neither does that fact mean that this isn't an issue. That there are women who feel that they have no choice but to wear the full Burka is a simple fact. Familial pressure / religious pressure... the reasons surely don't really matter, other than the fact that it's used (by some) to demonize the religion as a whole.

[Kyle]

I'd rather they just worked on relationships with communities and finding out if certain women were pressured into wearing them, how to get the message out that's it not acceptable etc. rather than just blanket banning them and punishing people who choose to wear it.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

Normally I would agree with your premise that banning something for the sake of freedom is counterproductive to freedom, but in this case I feel the law needs to step in and help these women.

Women from families with very strong islamic views are conditioned and eventually bullied to adhere to this type of anachronistic behaviour regardless of how repugnant it is.

they really have no choice when it comes to this particular form of slavery, they would receive extreme physical punishment and in some extreme cases possibly death through so called honour killings for refusing to wear this type of "clothing".

I believe like the French Govt that wearing this type of extreme garb is a form of female repression and subjugation under the veneer of religious choice.

I think these women have no choice and no freedom and would benefit from some form of legal cover which bans full face garments like these on moral,legal and safety grounds.

Otherwise this disgusting practice will continue unabated for years possibly decades to come.

Like I said; I fully believe that in households where they believe firmly in the Burka, if the Burka was to be banned these women simply wouldn't be allowed to leave the home at all. Ever. So it might look like the problem is "solved" out in public - no women wearing full Burka - it would create an "unseen" problem with women being essentially imprisoned in their homes.

Of course, for the BNP this is "problem solved" since, as I said, their objective is not to help women but simply to keep "things that they don't like to see" out of the public eye.

For anyone actually seeking to educate / help, it would be couter-productive.