[arista]

Judy Finnigan forced into humiliating apology on her first day on Loose Women after excusing rape by footballer because it 'wasn't violent and the victim was drunk'

Evans, 25, was jailed for five years in 2012 after raping a 19-year-old woman
Speaking on Loose Women, veteran broadcaster Finnigan said: 'The rape was not violent... he didn't cause any bodily harm to the person'
The 66-year-old added: 'It was unpleasant... she had far too much to drink'
Her comments on the live show sparked immediate outrage on social media
100,000 people have signed petition to prevent Evans from returning to play
Finnigan has since 'apologised unreservedly' for any offence caused


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz3G7IXcFLc



She is on loads of Front pages



this Not Her

[LeatherTrumpet]

She got herself trapped in the fact that the word rape covers such a huge range of circumstances and that by pointing out degrees of badness you are not condoning any of them

[arista]

She is Not on the Panel Today


Only done one day.

[LeatherTrumpet]

2 weeks worth of good PR for LW

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

She got herself trapped in the fact that the word rape covers such a huge range of circumstances and that by pointing out degrees of badness you are not condoning any of them

whilst I get what you're saying it seems to only ever apply to rape that it "not being that bad" is pointed out. Like if someone was murdered by being shot in the head, you're not going to hear someone say well it could have been worse, he could have been tortured first

[Livia]

I'm not excusing rape... but if a young woman is so pissed she can't take care of herself then it should serve as a warning to other young women... because as far as I can see, young women are still getting pissed out of their minds with monotonous regularity, and so I think they must take a little of the responsibility when a woman incapacitated by alcohol, is raped. If you have an accident in a car when you're pissed, and you're seriously injured, your insurance will not pay out and you face all kinds of penalties and punishments. If you're raped while you're pissed, you're a victim.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

I'm not excusing rape... but if a young woman is so pissed she can't take care of herself then it should serve as a warning to other young women... because as far as I can see, young women are still getting pissed out of their minds with monotonous regularity, and so I think they must take a little of the responsibility when a woman incapacitated by alcohol, is raped. If you have an accident in a car when you're pissed, and you're seriously injured, your insurance will not pay out and you face all kinds of penalties and punishments. If you're raped while you're pissed, you're a victim.

Of course you're a victim if you're raped..... drunk or not

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Livia

I'm not excusing rape... but if a young woman is so pissed she can't take care of herself then it should serve as a warning to other young women... because as far as I can see, young women are still getting pissed out of their minds with monotonous regularity, and so I think they must take a little of the responsibility when a woman incapacitated by alcohol, is raped. If you have an accident in a car when you're pissed, and you're seriously injured, your insurance will not pay out and you face all kinds of penalties and punishments. If you're raped while you're pissed, you're a victim.

bull****/ if it was a young man who was raped while passed out by a gay man no one would be blaming the pissed lad. no one would be saying "well he shouldn't have gotten drunk with his mates, if you get pissed with your mates, you should expect this sort of thing"

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Of course you're a victim if you're raped..... drunk or not

You don't think women need to take some responsibility for their own safety? Shouldn't drunk drivers be treated in the same way then, when they crash a car and injur themselves?

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

whilst I get what you're saying it seems to only every apply to rape that it "not being that bad" is pointed out. Like if someone was murdered by being shot in the head, you're not going to hear someone say well it could have been worse, he could have been tortured first

There are degrees there too. Beheading someone with a chainsaw is a worse way to die than say being shot in the back of the head at close range

[Ross.]

Originally Posted by arista

She is Not on the Panel Today


Only done one day.

They rotate panellists on LW tho

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

You don't think women need to take some responsibility for their own safety? Shouldn't drunk drivers be treated in the same way then, when they crash a car and injur themselves?

No, drunk drivers are essentially in charge of a weapon and are liable to injure not only themselves but other people if they choose to drink and drive. Also, drink driving is illegal, getting drunk in general is not. Should people try to keep themselves safe? of course they should. Should people accept any blame when they're raped, attacked, robbed etc No, that always goes fully to the perpetrator of the crime imo

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

There are degrees there too. Beheading someone with a chainsaw is a worse way to die than say being shot in the back of the head at close range

I know there is, that wasn't the point I was making in my previous post though

[Smithy]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

No, drunk drivers are essentially in charge of a weapon and are liable to injury not only themselves but other people if they choose to drink and drive. Also, drink driving is illegal, getting drunk in general is not. Should people try to keep themselves safe? of course they should. Should people accept any blame when they're raped, attacked, robbed etc No, that always goes fully to the perpetrator of the crime imo

Exactly, maybe teach men not to rape women rather than teaching women not to get drunk because they could be attacked

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by Livia

You don't think women need to take some responsibility for their own safety? Shouldn't drunk drivers be treated in the same way then, when they crash a car and injur themselves?

Generally speaking one would think that a car is a little less liable to think "hang on, let's not rape and batter this girl" than a man should be...

[LeatherTrumpet]

Did the girl involved not consent and then withdraw her consent the next morning?

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Did the girl involved not consent and then withdraw her consent the next morning?

what you just said makes no sense, how could she not give consent and then withdraw consent that she never gave? or maybe you were just making a very clever post that points out the ridiculousness. either way, no is the answer to the question (no pun intended)

[arista]

Originally Posted by Monopoly

They rotate panellists on LW tho

Sure but she has done one day and hit Front Pages

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Did the girl involved not consent and then withdraw her consent the next morning?

If that was the case then the footballer would not have been found guilty, consent is consent, drunk or not

[arista]

Originally Posted by lostalex

what you just said makes no sense, how could she not give consent and then withdraw consent that she never gave? or maybe you were just making a very clever post that points out the ridiculousness. either way, no is the answer to the question (no pun intended)

Not the same as USA Laws


and this Rapist Football is debuted on every UK media this week

[MTVN]

This was a strange case because Evans friend went back with this girl, text Evans about it and so he followed to the hotel room and had sex with her after his friend did. The woman woke up with no recollection and accused both men of rape, but Evans was found guilty and his friend wasn't which seemed like a strange verdict.

[LeatherTrumpet]

The trial took place at the Crown Court at Caernarfon in April 2012 before Judge Merfyn Hughes QC and a jury. Evans and McDonald admitted to having sex with the woman, but both denied raping her.[13] Counsel for the prosecution, John Philpotts, stated that the victim, a 19-year-old waitress, was too intoxicated to have consented.[14][15] The court heard that the victim had woken up naked and confused in a double bed with her clothes on the floor and no memory of the incident.[16] Samples taken from the victim at the time showed no alcohol, although the Crown claimed this was due to "elimination".[17] The samples showed traces of cocaine and cannabis, although she denied taking the drugs on the night of the incident.[18] She had drunk two glasses of wine, four double vodkas with lemonade, and a shot of sambuca.[18] As a result, she told police she "felt tipsy but not out of control".[19] The victim claimed to have almost no memory of what happened between leaving a dancing session with friends and waking up the following morning, leading her to believe that her drink had been spiked.[18] The defence stated both men had sex with the woman separately and with her consent, while the prosecution submitted that the pair "targeted" her for sex after she "literally stumbled across their path" and demonstrated herself to be too intoxicated to consent. Two friends of the men were also alleged to have watched and attempted to record the act through a window


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_v_Evans_and_McDonald

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

The trial took place at the Crown Court at Caernarfon in April 2012 before Judge Merfyn Hughes QC and a jury. Evans and McDonald admitted to having sex with the woman, but both denied raping her.[13] Counsel for the prosecution, John Philpotts, stated that the victim, a 19-year-old waitress, was too intoxicated to have consented.[14][15] The court heard that the victim had woken up naked and confused in a double bed with her clothes on the floor and no memory of the incident.[16] Samples taken from the victim at the time showed no alcohol, although the Crown claimed this was due to "elimination".[17] The samples showed traces of cocaine and cannabis, although she denied taking the drugs on the night of the incident.[18] She had drunk two glasses of wine, four double vodkas with lemonade, and a shot of sambuca.[18] As a result, she told police she "felt tipsy but not out of control".[19] The victim claimed to have almost no memory of what happened between leaving a dancing session with friends and waking up the following morning, leading her to believe that her drink had been spiked.[18] The defence stated both men had sex with the woman separately and with her consent, while the prosecution submitted that the pair "targeted" her for sex after she "literally stumbled across their path" and demonstrated herself to be too intoxicated to consent. Two friends of the men were also alleged to have watched and attempted to record the act through a window


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_v_Evans_and_McDonald

By that account it does sound like she was targeted by the men. One of them brought her back to a hotel room, called his friend over to have sex with her and presumably more than just that friend was called if two more of them were watching through a window and recording it....

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Livia

You don't think women need to take some responsibility for their own safety? Shouldn't drunk drivers be treated in the same way then, when they crash a car and injur themselves?

Of course everyone man or woman should take responsibility for themselves, (men can be raped too), but what you are talking about is completely different thing. If someone is drunk and goes on to commit a crime that is their responsibility, driving while under the influence is a crime, if someone is drunk and another person takes advantage of the fact and commits a crime against the drunk person the drunk person has not committed a crime and should not be held responsible for the other persons actions.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Of course everyone man or woman should take responsibility for themselves, (men can be raped too), but what you are talking about is completely different thing. If someone is drunk and goes on to commit a crime that is their responsibility, driving while under the influence is a crime, if someone is drunk and another person takes advantage of the fact and commits a crime against the drunk person the drunk person has not committed a crime and should not be held responsible for the other persons actions.

[LeatherTrumpet]

So are we saying that men should not bang drunk women?

or at what stage do you think, hang on she is too pissed and wont remember this