[arista]

Its like
Fawlty Towers
do not mention the war.....

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/polit...-a3503156.html


"Hitler" a word in the Labour party
many say he must never say.



ITV1 London News
say tomorrow he is expecting to be
kicked out of the Labour Party.

[Livia]

Anti-semitism in Labour? Surely not................... He really should keep his mouth shut.

[Northern Monkey]

He's an idiot.Why is he digging himself deeper and deeper?He's giving them no choice but to expel him.

[Kizzy]

If what he is saying is historically correct then where is the problem?...Can it be backed up with facts, if so how can he be expelled for stating what he has, I don't understand :/

[arista]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

If what he is saying is historically correct then where is the problem?...Can it be backed up with facts, if so how can he be expelled for stating what he has, I don't understand :/

Correct Kizzy
its the "Hitler" word
that got him sacked
from LBC radio, a few years ago

same words he used there

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

If what he is saying is historically correct then where is the problem?...Can it be backed up with facts, if so how can he be expelled for stating what he has, I don't understand :/

because political correctness has meant nothing can be openly discussed anymore....the irony is labour invented it, now it is destroying them

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by the truth

because political correctness has meant nothing can be openly discussed anymore....the irony is labour invented it, now it is destroying them

The Labour party invented Political Correctness? Well you learn something new everyday

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

The Labour party invented Political Correctness? Well you learn something new everyday

I hope you do

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by the truth

I hope you do

Back at ya

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

If what he is saying is historically correct then where is the problem?...Can it be backed up with facts, if so how can he be expelled for stating what he has, I don't understand :/

Yes and Yes!

The Haavara Agreement can be validated so what Livingstone said was historical fact. I don’t think he should of said it because this was bound to feed the wolves but to call Livingstone anti Semite is ludicrous; his entire life has been spent fighting racism. He’d still be mayor of London if he hadn’t dedicated so much time fighting for small minorities.

This isn’t about Livingstone, its another right wing coup against Corbyn’s Labour party. It’s a smoke screen that's been frenziedly skewed out of all proportion.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Yes and Yes!

The Haavara Agreement can be validated so what Livingstone said was historical fact. I don’t think he should of said it because this was bound to feed the wolves but to call Livingstone anti Semite is ludicrous; his entire life has been spent fighting racism. He’d still be mayor of London if he hadn’t dedicated so much time fighting for small minorities.

This isn’t about Livingstone, its another right wing coup against Corbyn’s Labour party. It’s a smoke screen that's been frenziedly skewed out of all proportion.

I know, it's like the antisemitic slurs at the Millibands in the right wing media never happened! :/

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I know, it's like the antisemitic slurs at the Millibands in the right wing media never happened! :/

Yep, its just an orchestrated attack

When you listen to Livingstone, he's talking about the deal made between the Nazi's and the Zionists and he also talks about Hitlers genocidal madness and unacceptable ethnic cleansing. No matter which way I look at this its not anti-Semitism but a historical fact that for some reason we are not supposed to talk about.

[Northern Monkey]

Why is he even waffling on about Hitler?It's only getting him in hot water.What was the context of why he needed to bring Hitler up?Why is he still talking about Hitler?Idgi

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

Why is he even waffling on about Hitler?It's only getting him in hot water.What was the context of why he needed to bring Hitler up?Why is he still talking about Hitler?Idgi

I really cant remember , lets be honest we're all too scared to even discuss it

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

Why is he even waffling on about Hitler?It's only getting him in hot water.What was the context of why he needed to bring Hitler up?Why is he still talking about Hitler?Idgi

Why can't Hitler be discussed... Are we not to learn and grow as a society by examining past mistakes and atrocities?

Free speech?

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Why can't Hitler be discussed... Are we not to learn and grow as a society by examining past mistakes and atrocities?

Free speech?

we should be able to discuss anything and everything...the hysterical media prevent this allied to the evil that is political correctness

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Why can't Hitler be discussed... Are we not to learn and grow as a society by examining past mistakes and atrocities?

Free speech?

Just wondering what it was all about and if its really worth getting into trouble with his party.I mean he's not in legal trouble it's something that seems to be against party rules.I think we should be able to talk about everything but i suppose if you work for an organisation that doesn't want you making remarks that they deem inflammatory then you keep schtum if you don't want to get into bother with them.
Now he knows its an issue and he's still going on about it.
Is what he's saying actually accurate?Is he using it to try and excuse something?
Why is it a problem within the party?

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

Just wondering what it was all about and if its really worth getting into trouble with his party.I mean he's not in legal trouble it's something that seems to be against party rules.I think we should be able to talk about everything but i suppose if you work for an organisation that doesn't want you making remarks that they deem inflammatory then you keep schtum if you don't want to get into bother with them.
Now he knows its an issue and he's still going on about it.
Is what he's saying actually accurate?Is he using it to try and excuse something?
Why is it a problem within the party?

I THINK hes claiming the nazis wanted a zionist state?

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by the truth

I THINK hes claiming the nazis wanted a zionist state?

Yeah before WW2.Now is this a true fact?
If not then i could see why it could be offensive.
Is it checkable?

[arista]

"This isn’t about Livingstone, its another right wing coup against Corbyn’s Labour party. It’s a smoke screen that's been frenziedly skewed out of all proportion. "


Bang On Right DR

[Livia]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

You have to stop being offended and trying to shut down discussions every time that discussion mentions Israel.

Criticizing Israel is not the same as anti-Semitism but we haven't even done that in this thread.

As for suggesting we are the same sort of people who say the Holocaust was made up, how dare you. My husband lost many ancestors in the Holocaust.

I'll tell you what's offensive, shall I? A perfect stranger like you telling me that I have to stop being offended.

And then you go on to be offended yourself.

[arista]

Ken was Suspended for one year


SkyNewsHD Live

[Kizzy]

Again remind me why referring to the Haavara agreement puts Labour in disrepute?....

[MTVN]

Astonishingly Labour have not expelled Ken, they have merely suspended him for another year. Oh dear…

Ken says: “I apologise for the offence caused by those Labour MPs who lied and said I said Hitler was a Zionist” and tells ITV: “I don’t think anyone expected this result”.

Reaction:

Campaign Against Anti-Semitism: “This surely represents the death throes of the Labour Party’s long relationship with the Jewish community.”

Holocaust Educational Trust: “This verdict is a slap on the wrist for a serial offender. That a mainstream political party would consider these views to be welcome within their ranks simply demonstrates that antisemitism is not taken as seriously as all other forms of racism and prejudice.”

Jewish Labour Movement: “This is a betrayal of our Party’s values. One year suspension allows for a revolving door for repeat offenders.”

CST: “This decision strengthens real anti-Semites and their fellow travellers, and will leave the Jewish community less confident than ever that Labour is serious in dealing with anti-Semitism.”

Luciana Berger: “A new low for my party this evening. Appalling decision. Why is antisemitism being treated differently from any other form of racism?”

Wes Streeting: “So much for zero tolerance approach to antisemitism – this is a terrible betrayal of Jewish Labour supporters and our values.”

Michael Dugher: “Is the party really saying it knows more about antisemitism than the Chief Rabbi?”

Tulip Siddiq: “Absolutely ridiculous. Why has this man not been expelled?!”

John Woodcock: “This pathetic Livingstone sentence is an important moment Labour members: do we stand for decency against this or are we part of the decay?”

Communities Secretary Sajid Javid: “Astonishing and wrong that Ken Livingstone has not been expelled. His repeated and offensive comments are totally and utterly unacceptable.”

https://order-order.com/2017/04/04/k...-not-expelled/

[DemolitionRed]

Jewish Labour Party members slam decision to suspend Ken Livingstone

http://freespeechonisrael.org.uk/jew...n-livingstone/

Statement from Jewish Labour Party members who gave evidence in support of Ken Livingstone at his hearing for alleged conduct prejudicial and/or grossly detrimental to the Labour Party.
No justification for claiming all Jews are offended by Nazi/Zionism remarks
Views critical of Zionism are not antisemitic
It is contrary to freedom of expression to ban such opinions.

We are alarmed that the Labour Party’s National Constitutional Committee has bowed to demands for the suspension of Ken Livingstone, excluding him from the life of the party until April 2018.

Having failed to make a case that he was guilty of antisemitic conduct, his accusers alleged that he was nonetheless guilty of conduct grossly detrimental to the party because, according to them, he had upset the UK’s Jewish population. The grounds put forward for this were Ken Livingstone’s references to a temporary agreement prior to World War II, between some Zionist leaders and Hitler’s Nazi Party, to facilitate the emigration of a number of Jews from Germany. The Zionist motivation was to increase the numbers of Jews going to Palestine.

In our evidence to the NCC we explained that those claiming offence on behalf of all Jews have no justification for doing so. Such a claim deliberately ignores the views of large numbers of Jewish people, both in the Labour Party and in society at large. These are people who, like us, find their identity in a different tradition to the Zionist one; or who, while continuing to believe in the Zionist ideal, are deeply uncomfortable about ongoing inroads into free speech and believe that the history of the Zionist movement must be open to scrutiny.

The decision to suspend Ken is mistaken. It is an attempt to protect Israel from criticism, while simultaneously weakening the position of the pro-Palestinian Left in the party. It is the verdict, not Ken Livingstone, that has bought the Labour Party into disrepute.