[LeatherTrumpet]

The Government says "nobody is hiding anything" as an MP raises fears of a cover-up and tower block residents demand justice.



David Lammy, MP for Tottenham, who lost a friend in the disaster, raised fears of a cover-up.

"What people say is that if you put the numbers out early, there could be civil unrest. That's what they say," he told BBC2's Newsnight.

"I am sympathetic to it, I am going to walk alongside those people."

Asked if he believed the number of dead had not been released due to the potential for civil unrest, he said: "The truth is the media cycle is now beginning to move on to other things, that's the truth.

"And so what people say is that in two, three weeks' time, if you start to reveal the numbers, things have moved on."

"In one flat alone, people say there were up to 40 people gathering, because they gathered in the flat, it was Ramadan," he said.

http://news.sky.com/story/grenfell-f...quiry-10928385


What do you think?

[Kazanne]

Talk about trying to cause trouble and diversity.Someone must be bored

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Talk about trying to cause trouble and diversity.

[Tom4784]

Hundreds of people died in that tower, it's disgusting that weeks on the government is refusing to acknowledge that to save their own skins.

[Toy Soldier]

They really do need to release a more plausible estimate for the number killed. What do they think is going to happen? That t hey might over-estimate and then people will be annoyed that there are fewer dead than they had thought? Surely it's worse to be told that 70 are dead and then find out it's 200, than be told that 300 are dead and find out it's 200 .

[LeatherTrumpet]

maybe there were like twice the number of people in that block than there should have been and the council knew about it but because they did nowt about it they dont want the number coming out?

[Kazanne]

How would the government etc, know how many people were in there, do visitors have to sign in ? there are rumours of 40 in one flat,how would the authorities KNOW that ?

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

How would the government etc, know how many people were in there, do visitors have to sign in ? there are rumours of 40 in one flat,how would the authorities KNOW that ?

They wouldn't, but they could provide a more realistic estimate until a full search of the building has been completed.

[jet]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

How would the government etc, know how many people were in there, do visitors have to sign in ? there are rumours of 40 in one flat,how would the authorities KNOW that ?

No point in talking common sense Kazanne. As happens in any tragedy, the numbers will be released as people are identified and known to be definitely deceased. The authorities aren't going to play guessing games.

[arista]

Lammy is a Trouble maker

[Vicky.]

Obviously there are more than the 70 or so deaths that is claimed so far. I can well believe this. Even without 40 (?!) gathered in one flat there shoiuld be like 4 or 5 hundred residents in such a large block. Anyone who was in the top few floors are probably dead :S

[smudgie]

If they believe only 79 people are believed missing/dead, then someone somewhere is basing this on the expected people believed to be in the building at the time.
Pretty obvious that there could have been many more people in the block of flats that are known about.
Unless they are actually reported missing by family and friends then it will be very difficult to know how many.
To think that there will be an actual body count might be just too hopeful.

[Tom4784]

At this point it should be obvious who is dead, it's been weeks since it happened, if the people who had been living in those flats haven't gotten in touch with anyone since the fire and they aren't already accounted for then they are almost certainly dead.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

At this point it should be obvious who is dead, it's been weeks since it happened, if the people who had been living in those flats haven't gotten in touch with anyone since the fire and they aren't already accounted for then they are almost certainly dead.

Well of course. If they had been out somewhere at the time and the building went up in flames, they are hardly likely to just **** off and never contact anyone again. Why on earth would they do that? First thing I would do is contact family to let them know I am ok :S

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Well of course. If they had been out somewhere at the time and the building went up in flames, they are hardly likely to just **** off and never contact anyone again. Why on earth would they do that? First thing I would do is contact family to let them know I am ok :S

Well there have been cases like this where a woman had been feared dead by everybody but was actually alive: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...-hospital/amp/

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Well there have been cases like this where a woman had been feared dead by everybody but was actually alive: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...-hospital/amp/

Your connection is not secure

The owner of www.telegraph.co.uk has configured their website improperly. To protect your information from being stolen, Firefox has not connected to this website.

I get that when trying to click that

Guessing story from link name...the hospital didn't contact her next of kin? Pretty crap.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I get that when trying to click that

Guessing story from link name...the hospital didn't contact her next of kin? Pretty crap.

She was actually in hospital surrounded by her family who hadn't realised there were loads of people out looking for her and posters put up so I'm not sure if she was officially considered missing or not. I guess it is problematic when a lot of the residents will have been immigrants who might not speak much English and have little contact with the authorities.

[Kizzy]

Do they think we are stupid?... 79 dead in a block that holds almost 600!

Of course theres a cover up!

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Do they think we are stupid?... 79 dead in a block that holds almost 600!

Of course theres a cover up!

How do you know there were 600 that seems a lot of people crammed into 120 one and two bed flats? Some elderly residents will be living alone, not every flat will have been occupied on the night either, if the council don't know how many were living there I don't know how anyone can know for sure how many were there on that night

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Cherie

How do you know there were 600 that seems a lot of people crammed into 120 one and two bed flats? Some elderly residents will be living alone, not every flat will have been occupied on the night either, if the council don't know how many were living there I don't know how anyone can know for sure how many were there on that night

''How many people live at Grenfell Tower?
An exact figure is unknown but it is a 24-storey tower block and there are thought to be around 24 people per floor.
This would leave the total at around 600 (576) although authorities have no idea how many people were in their homes during the fire.
Kensington and Chelsea Council leader Nick Paget-Brown suggested, ‘several hundred would have been in there. It’s a question of establishing how many people were in there at the time of the fire''


Read more: http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/14/where-...#ixzz4lIWbFZGn

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

''How many people live at Grenfell Tower?
An exact figure is unknown but it is a 24-storey tower block and there are thought to be around 24 people per floor.
This would leave the total at around 600 (576) although authorities have no idea how many people were in their homes during the fire.
Kensington and Chelsea Council leader Nick Paget-Brown suggested, ‘several hundred would have been in there. It’s a question of establishing how many people were in there at the time of the fire''


Read more: http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/14/where-...#ixzz4lIWbFZGn

I think the operative words there are the figure is unknown...the Asian man who was rescued was alone, I have seen a few families who have elderly/disabled relatives missing who lived alone, the young Italian couple who had just moved People seem to be assuming that all the flats were heaving with people, but the bedroom tax is a thing because people in social housing do have spare rooms especially if the lived there all their lives, some residents have formed groups now to see if the count is underestimated, I think it's difficult as people might have been staying over but equally residents might not have been in the building that night, and some are not coming forward for their own reasons

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I think the operative words there are the figure is unknown...the Asian man who was rescued was alone, I have seen a few families who have elderly/disabled relatives missing who lived alone, the young Italian couple who had just moved People seem to be assuming that all the flats were heaving with people, but the bedroom tax is a thing because people in social housing do have spare rooms especially if the lived there all their lives, some residents have formed groups now to see if the count is underestimated, I think it's difficult as people might have been staying over but equally residents might not have been in the building that night, and some are not coming forward for their own reasons

Why is the figure unknown? Council tax is a thing too it shows who is in your property and their ages.
The estimate of 2 persons per flat per floor would be an over estimate in some properties and under in others surely?

[Kizzy]

Well that accounts for 1 missing person... where are the rest?

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Well that accounts for 1 missing person... where are the rest?

Most of them probably are dead. We will know for sure in due course - why are you so impatient to declare them dead now?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Most of them probably are dead. We will know for sure in due course - why are you so impatient to declare them dead now?

Impatient... Why were they so quick to vastly underestimate the number of dead it 17? Is a better question, it was to avoid a bigger national outcry while the govt sorted out their grubby DUP deal!