[Beso]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.t...ine-greer/amp/

[Niamh.]

I don't know about branding or tattooing people but I think she might have a point with this part :

The issue of consent should be removed from prosecutions, Greer said, and some cases could be treated as grievous bodily harm – a crime that carries a lighter sentence and would therefore not prove so off-putting to juries. “Where it’s his word against hers and the penalty is seven years or something, juries won’t convict,” she said.

[Calderyon]

Rape sentences are already mild and should be much harsher than they are. At least in here, where you more times than usual get probational sentence (not going to jail) rather than actual jail time.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Calderyon

Rape sentences are already mild and should be much harsher than they are. At least in here, where you more times than usual get probational sentence (not going to jail) rather than actual jail time.

The point is the conviction rates are tiny

[Calderyon]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

The point is the conviction rates are tiny

That is a problem.

Because of the difficulty of proving ones guilt for the lack of evidence?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Calderyon

That is a problem.

Because of the difficulty of proving ones guilt for the lack of evidence?

In most cases it's going to come down to his word against hers I'd imagine

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Calderyon

That is a problem.

Because of the difficulty of proving ones guilt for the lack of evidence?

The problem is, though, the harsher the penalties the higher the bar is raised for "reasonable doubt". e.g. change the example to an extreme, a murder case... if the jury is 95% convinced that someone is guilty then chances are they will have no issue sending them off to a life sentence in prison. Change that sentence to the death penalty, and there is a much higher chance that the accused will simply walk free, because most juries are less likely to be willing to send someone to their death unless they are 100% sure of guilt.

Bringing it back to rape cases, sadly because of the nature of the crime and there usually being a lack of evidence, the "certainty" aspect can only ever really hover closer to 50/50...

[user104658]

"Every time a man rolls over on his exhausted wife and insists on enjoying his conjugal right"

"I was found wandering in the street very confused and rescued, thank God, because the people in the car were a man and a woman. If there had been four men in that car I don’t think you would have heard of me again."

... ... She has some serious issues with men, doesn't she? Obviously there are reasons for that but it is somewhat sad that after all of these years, it still isn't something that she has worked through, and she's still living with that skewed and twisted perspective. She talks about it not profoundly affecting people in any huge way, but she seems somewhat unaware of how profoundly her experiences have affected her?

Basically, I don't think she really has a clear an unencumbered headspace to consider the topic of rape law in any meaningful way. It's informed by a jumble of her own prejudices and trauma.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

"Every time a man rolls over on his exhausted wife and insists on enjoying his conjugal right"

"I was found wandering in the street very confused and rescued, thank God, because the people in the car were a man and a woman. If there had been four men in that car I don’t think you would have heard of me again."

... ... She has some serious issues with men, doesn't she? Obviously there are reasons for that but it is somewhat sad that after all of these years, it still isn't something that she has worked through, and she's still living with that skewed and twisted perspective. She talks about it not profoundly affecting people in any huge way, but she seems somewhat unaware of how profoundly her experiences have affected her?

Basically, I don't think she really has a clear an unencumbered headspace to consider the topic of rape law in any meaningful way. It's informed by a jumble of her own prejudices and trauma.

I stopped taking this woman seriously when she said all father's sexualise their daughters. A fruitcake of a woman.

[MTVN]

I kinda admire her outspokenness but I can't see her comments going down well with the sisterhood

[bots]

Heres the thing. The objective always is to get the person who committed a crime not do do it or something similar again.

In this day and age, we should be able to be a lot smarter than simply locking someone up. Branding is a no no I think, it just opens up the door for a return to the middle ages, but we have tracking equipment that is very accurate. We can confine people to their homes etc pretty easily.

Serious crimes like murder etc, still require some sort of custodial sentence, but many other crimes simply don't need this

[smudgie]

Different degrees of rape, different sentences.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by smudgie

Different degrees of rape, different sentences.

Rape’s rape just as much as murder’s just plain murder. There’s no question of degree for the sickest crimes out there.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by smudgie

Different degrees of rape, different sentences.

Not really. Rape is rape, if it's a "lesser" crime, it's just another form of sexual assault. Rape is a specific sexual assault, surely?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Not really. Rape is rape, if it's a "lesser" crime, it's just another form of sexual assault. Rape is a specific sexual assault, surely?

Well, there's rpae that causes other injuries, and not, but I guess you can easily get around that with in those cases charging with both rape and gbh/abh?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Well, there's rpae that causes other injuries, and not, but I guess you can easily get around that with in those cases charging with both rape and gbh/abh?

Oh yeah, definitely. If a rape also included a vicious beating for good measure then other charges would or should be thrown in too.

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Not really. Rape is rape, if it's a "lesser" crime, it's just another form of sexual assault. Rape is a specific sexual assault, surely?

Rape is rape, I agree, however there are different degrees.
All rapists found guilty of the crime should be punished accordingly.
Date rape.
A “friend” helps himself when helping you to bed due to you being drunk.
A partner decides he will turn you over and force anal sex against your wishes.
A stranger viciously attacks and rapes you walking home late at night (or any other time).
The mental anguish should be taken into account in all cases.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by smudgie

Rape is rape, I agree, however there are different degrees.
All rapists found guilty of the crime should be punished accordingly.
Date rape.
A “friend” helps himself when helping you to bed due to you being drunk.
A partner decides he will turn you over and force anal sex against your wishes.
A stranger viciously attacks and rapes you walking home late at night (or any other time).
The mental anguish should be taken into account in all cases.

Rape’s rape no matter what. Don’t matter the circumstances.

I wouldn’t be looking for ways to get people lighter sentences for commiting the sickest crime there is when they’re all guilty of the exact same thing.

Mental anguish is subjective. How should that be a factor in deciding what sort of prison sentence rapists get?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Redway

Rape’s rape no matter what. Don’t matter the circumstances.

I wouldn’t be looking for ways to get people lighter sentences for commiting the sickest crime there is when they’re all guilty of the exact same thing.

Mental anguish is subjective. How should that be a factor in deciding what sort of prison sentence rapists get?

But conviction rates are abysmal, the sentence for most rapists is "nothing at all because they walk out of court free".

What if lightening sentences resulted in a significantly higher conviction rate? Is it better for fewer rapists to receive harsh sentences and the majority to get away with it, or for more rapists to receive a lighter custodial sentence than before but at least be convicted (and thus, added to the sex offenders register)?

That's the crux of the discussion really but you're overlooking pragmatism in favour of outrage.

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by Redway

Rape’s rape no matter what. Don’t matter the circumstances.

I wouldn’t be looking for ways to get people lighter sentences for commiting the sickest crime there is when they’re all guilty of the exact same thing.

Mental anguish is subjective. How should that be a factor in deciding what sort of prison sentence rapists get?

Try turning it on it’s head.
Rather than lighter sentencing for the less violent rapes, make it heavier sentencing for the most violent.
Being in fear of your life and violently assaulted would get the highest sentencing and punishment for me.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by smudgie

Rape is rape, I agree, however there are different degrees.
All rapists found guilty of the crime should be punished accordingly.
Date rape.
A “friend” helps himself when helping you to bed due to you being drunk.
A partner decides he will turn you over and force anal sex against your wishes.
A stranger viciously attacks and rapes you walking home late at night (or any other time).
The mental anguish should be taken into account in all cases.

Yeah but each of those cases are rape, no matter the circumstances. I wouldn't say those were degrees.

There are degrees of sexual harassment/assault, rape being one. But all of the instances you list should carry the same punishment as they are the same crime whether the victim was attacked by a loved one, a stranger, in a dark alley or in their own home.

[Oliver_W]

I'm all for replacing penal sentences with community service, but only for things like theft, tax crimes, and minor assault. There's no point adding to the already cluttered prison system with people who were probably acting out of desperation/had too much to drink. There are plenty of things which need doing out there, but which local councils don't have the resources to address, so yeah, get minor criminals picking up rubbish etc.

Rapists and murderers on the other hand should absolutely continue to face jail time.

[Tom4784]

The idea of branding someone for any reason is barbaric and has no place in a civilised society.

It's a suggestion I've heard before and it's always comes from the same people who are all like 'MUSLIMS ARE GONNA TAKE OVER AND FORCE SHARIAH LAW ON US ALL!' and then they go around endorsing death penalties and branding people without realising the irony.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

The idea of branding someone for any reason is barbaric and has no place in a civilised society.

It's a suggestion I've heard before and it's always comes from the same people who are all like 'MUSLIMS ARE GONNA TAKE OVER AND FORCE SHARIAH LAW ON US ALL!' and then they go around endorsing death penalties and branding people without realising the irony.

Yes, i saw germaine greer in speakers corner hollering that through a loud speaker....all true, and not fake news.

[RileyH]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

The idea of branding someone for any reason is barbaric and has no place in a civilised society.

This