[Redway]

This might seem like an unquestionably basic right that any two (wo)men should have but in reality it infringes on the beliefs of many religious institutions so it’s open for debate even in 2021. What are your thoughts?

[parmnion]

You ain't allowed thoughts on this subject on TIBB.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by parmnion

You ain't allowed thoughts on this subject on TIBB.

TiBB’s been anything but left-leaning in the past couple of years so it is what it is, innit. I’m sure the worst of it as far as this topic goes would’ve been said years ago (when there were more members with hot/controversial opinions actively posting).

[Glenn.]

Originally Posted by parmnion

You ain't allowed thoughts on this subject on TIBB.

You mean your homophobic remarks aren’t allowed

[Redway]

I say option one isn’t the best idea because rampant (and to the lay Brit. very extreme) homophobia (or at least disapproval of homosexuality) is the norm in a lot of churches (and mosques without a doubt). Forcing those institutions to marry two men would be an infringement on their own rights.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Redway

I say option one isn’t the best idea because rampant (and to the lay Brit. very extreme) homophobia (or at least disapproval of homosexuality) is the norm in a lot of churches (and mosques without a doubt). Forcing those institutions to marry two men would be an infringement on their own rights.

There's no point forcing the issue with churches that would be doing it "because they have to" - and why would anyone even want to be married under those circumstances? That said, in my benevolent dictatorial utopia, I'd just Thanos-snap organised religion out of the equation entirely. Spiritualism/philosophical theology I have no real issue with but the actual dogmatic organised institutions ... ? Nah, that can go.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

There's no point forcing the issue with churches that would be doing it "because they have to" - and why would anyone even want to be married under those circumstances? That said, in my benevolent dictatorial utopia, I'd just Thanos-snap organised religion out of the equation entirely. Spiritualism/philosophical theology I have no real issue with but the actual dogmatic organised institutions ... ? Nah, that can go.

Yeah agree with this. Organised religions are sexist and homophobic for the most part

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

There's no point forcing the issue with churches that would be doing it "because they have to" - and why would anyone even want to be married under those circumstances? That said, in my benevolent dictatorial utopia, I'd just Thanos-snap organised religion out of the equation entirely. Spiritualism/philosophical theology I have no real issue with but the actual dogmatic organised institutions ... ? Nah, that can go.

A lot of gay people (you’d see what I mean if you’d been a bit more exposed to people from different cultural backgrounds) still want to marry at their respective religious institutions for familial (or, again, cultural) reasons. That’s something I can sympathise with but I can also at least empathise with the church/mosque figures who refuse to marry them off.

I think your opinions about spirituality and how deeply-rooted it can be as far as familial works go (including marriage) is very Western-oriented so I don’t blame you for adopting that kind of approach. But know that your experiences aren’t the same as that of a lesbian Nigerian-Brit. who faces ostracisation from her community (more than you’d ever know) but is still brave enough to stand up for what she wants anyway. Or a gay Muslim lad who’d face deportation and rank abuse for coming out but still has respect for his religion. Those are things you can’t even begin to appreciate when you’re sat behind your screen presenting a holier-than-thou stance and obviously don’t have much real experience dealing with conflicted LGBT millennials from non-Western indigenous cultures.

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Redway

A lot of gay people (you’d see what I mean if you’d been a bit more exposed to people from different cultural backgrounds) still want to marry at their respective religious institutions for familial (or, again, cultural) reasons. That’s something I can sympathise with but I can also at least empathise with the church/mosque figures who refuse to marry them off.

I think your opinions about spirituality and how deeply-rooted it can be as far as familial works go (including marriage) is very Western-oriented so I don’t blame you for adopting that kind of approach. But know that your experiences aren’t the same as that of a lesbian Nigerian-Brit. who faces ostracisation from her community (more than you’d ever know) but is still brave enough to stand up for what she wants anyway. Or a gay Muslim lad who’d face deportation and rank abuse for coming out but still has respect for his religion. Those are things you can’t even begin to appreciate when you’re sat behind your screen presenting a holier-than-thou stance and obviously don’t have much real experience dealing with conflicted LGBT millennials from non-Western indigenous cultures.

This is where the real struggle lays in 2021 for the lgbtq.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Redway

A lot of gay people (you’d see what I mean if you’d been a bit more exposed to people from different cultural backgrounds) still want to marry at their respective religious institutions for familial (or, again, cultural) reasons. That’s something I can sympathise with but I can also at least empathise with the church/mosque figures who refuse to marry them off.

I think your opinions about spirituality and how deeply-rooted it can be as far as familial works go (including marriage) is very Western-oriented so I don’t blame you for adopting that kind of approach. But know that your experiences aren’t the same as that of a lesbian Nigerian-Brit. who faces ostracisation from her community (more than you’d ever know) but is still brave enough to stand up for what she wants anyway. Or a gay Muslim lad who’d face deportation and rank abuse for coming out but still has respect for his religion. Those are things you can’t even begin to appreciate when you’re sat behind your screen presenting a holier-than-thou stance and obviously don’t have much real experience dealing with conflicted LGBT millennials from non-Western indigenous cultures.

I understand that and actually I think you’re underestimating how low the acceptance in in many Christian church communities in the UK - and definitely the US. I think in the UK they’re less vocal about it, I had a “parent friend” (the friends you have while your kids are little and don’t keep in contact with after that) who was heavily involved in the church (evangelical, I think) and from everything I knew about her I’d have assumed her views on homosexuality were moderate. Until the conversation actually came up - and she declared that while she’d be friends with gay people, she would have to tell them they’re not going to heaven, and that they should “stop”. Also that she’d be “utterly devastated” if one of her kids was gay. I’ve since realised it’s a very common attitude in British churches, it’s just not announced as loudly.

And my hypothetical was in a world where I’m a mystical overlord who can shape reality at will, and that I’d ideally remove religion from all equations entirely… it’s not intended to be a pragmatic suggestion for the real world.

[bitontheslide]

i think as long as people have a legal path to get the marital status they want, then the availability in each religious institution is a different thing all together. People can't get married in the catholic church for a multitude of reasons even although they are legally entitled, it's not confined to same sex or anything else

What I can't reconcile is wanting to be part of a religious institution that discriminates for whatever reason specifically against "you" I just wouldn't want to be associated with it if it were me

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I understand that and actually I think you’re underestimating how low the acceptance in in many Christian church communities in the UK - and definitely the US. I think in the UK they’re less vocal about it, I had a “parent friend” (the friends you have while your kids are little and don’t keep in contact with after that) who was heavily involved in the church (evangelical, I think) and from everything I knew about her I’d have assumed her views on homosexuality were moderate. Until the conversation actually came up - and she declared that while she’d be friends with gay people, she would have to tell them they’re not going to heaven, and that they should “stop”. Also that she’d be “utterly devastated” if one of her kids was gay. I’ve since realised it’s a very common attitude in British churches, it’s just not announced as loudly.

And my hypothetical was in a world where I’m a mystical overlord who can shape reality at will, and that I’d ideally remove religion from all equations entirely… it’s not intended to be a pragmatic suggestion for the real world.

Trust me, I’m well aware that many (if not most) U.K. churches are against gay marriage. The thing is I wasn’t talking about just English churches.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Yes I think the gays should suffer as well

[joeysteele]

I think churches need to look at why in various accounts at least two thirds of marriages are now in registry offices NOT their churches.

Their houses seem to be in great disorder.

Gay marriage is legal in the UK.
Personally I'd doubt a high percentage of those wishing to marry, who are gay, would want to marry in a religious setting.

However, if religions use their church settings to discriminate against a legal union between individuals.
Then those religions will lose even more influence of the little they have now, particularly as to Christianity.

I voted the second option however I do feel in time, unless the attitude changes, churches will lose more and more of its congregations yet.
Deservedly so.

[Glenn.]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I think churches need to look at why in various accounts at least two thirds of marriages are now in registry offices NOT their churches.

Their houses seem to be in great disorder.

Gay marriage is legal in the UK.
Personally I'd doubt a high percentage of those wishing to marry, who are gay, would want to marry in a religious setting.

However, if religions use their church settings to discriminate against a legal union between individuals.
Then those religions will lose even more influence of the little they have now, particularly as to Christianity.

I voted the second option however I do feel in time, unless the attitude changes, churches will lose more and more of its congregations yet.
Deservedly so.

[hijaxers]

My daughter is marrying her partner Maddie next year, excellent news we are very happy for them.

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by hijaxers

My daughter is marrying her partner Maddie next year, excellent news we are very happy for them.

Congratulations

[hijaxers]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

Congratulations

Thankyou Sheriff .

[Livia]

Originally Posted by hijaxers

My daughter is marrying her partner Maddie next year, excellent news we are very happy for them.

Lovely news x

[hijaxers]

Originally Posted by Livia

Lovely news x

Yes it is everyone's happy , especially as Maddie's surrogacy went well giving Richard and Alex the child they've longed for .

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by hijaxers

My daughter is marrying her partner Maddie next year, excellent news we are very happy for them.

Get the news in early its a paying bar

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by hijaxers

My daughter is marrying her partner Maddie next year, excellent news we are very happy for them.

Lovely news x

[Livia]

All the Abrahamic religions are of the mind that marriage is between a man and a woman. I don't see why people should alter their religious beliefs unless all religions are required to do the same. Some Christians may eventually agree, I'm not sure Catholics would and I'm pretty sure Jews and Muslims would never accept it. I couldn't marry in a synagogue because my OH wasn't a Jew, I can't imagine what they'd have said if he had been a woman. All that said, I was best woman at my friend's same sex wedding and they are one of the happiest married couples I know. So in conclusion, I am 100% for gay people being allowed to marry the people they love. I don't think religions will ever accept it nor do I think they should be made to.

[thesheriff443]

I have two good friends and both have a son and daughter and they are all gay has anyone else have any friends were more than one of their children are gay ?

As to gay marriage I’m all for it.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

I have two good friends and both have a son and daughter and they are all gay has anyone else have any friends were more than one of their children are gay ?

As to gay marriage I’m all for it.

I’m not old enough to have friends with adult kids quite yet (in fact most of my friends with kids are still in the toddler/little kid phase whereas mine are 12 and 9) however, one of my best friends is gay, told his family at 18, then 5 years later out of the blue his older brother rocked up to a family gathering with a boyfriend. They’re now both married (to men).