[Crimson Dynamo]

did any sane adult think otherwise?

Most children who believe that they are transgender are just going through a
“phase”, the NHS has said, as it warns that doctors should not encourage them
to change their names and pronouns.

NHS England has announced plans for tightening controls on the treatment of
under 18s questioning their gender, including a ban on prescribing puberty
blockers outside of strict clinical trials.

The services, which will replace the controversial Tavistock clinic, will be led by
medical doctors rather than therapists and will consider the impact of other
conditions such as autism and mental health issues.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...hase-says-nhs/

[GoldHeart]

I'm glad they're taking this seriously, a child under 18 should not be messing around with puberty blocker's and other hormonal drugs . Let kids be kids .

A doctor's duty is to have the patients best interest at heart. And when it comes to your physical and psychological health ,this is important.

And yes it most definitely can be a phase , the detransitioning stories out there are heartbreaking.

[Liam-]

A tragic turn of events that’ll lead to even higher self harm and suicide rates for trans youth, I just hope that all the transphobes pushing for things like this can live comfortably knowing they’ll have blood on their hands because of their ignorance

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Liam-

A tragic turn of events that’ll lead to even higher self harm and suicide rates for trans youth, I just hope that all the transphobes pushing for things like this can live comfortably knowing they’ll have blood on their hands because of their ignorance

As usual you ignore all the detransitioning cases out there .

A boy wanting to be a girl who is under 18 still ,needs help & support. You can't just say "oh great let's get you that surgery and puberty blocker's" ..... utter madness

Same for a girl wanting to be a boy , again help and support . Surgery and medical treatment should never be taken lightly.

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

As usual you ignore all the detransitioning cases out there .

A boy wanting to be a girl who is under 18 still ,needs help & support. You can't just say "oh great let's get you that surgery and puberty blocker's" ..... utter madness

Same for a girl wanting to be a boy , again help and support . Surgery and medical treatment should never be taken lightly.

Less than 1% of trans people decide to detransition, but for obvious reasons anti-trans campaigners latch onto these stories because it suits them to ignore the vast majority of trans people who are happy and comfortable.

I don’t know how many times you have to be told, you already have to be 18 before they allow you to have surgery, this belief that under 18’s are just being given surgeries is intellectually dishonest and shows the level of purposeful ignorance involved.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Less than 1% of trans people decide to detransition, but for obvious reasons anti-trans campaigners latch onto these stories because it suits them to ignore the vast majority of trans people who are happy and comfortable.

I don’t know how many times you have to be told, you already have to be 18 before they allow you to have surgery, this belief that under 18’s are just being given surgeries is intellectually dishonest and shows the level of purposeful ignorance involved.

I don't believe it's less than 1% , I've seen quite a few stories appear where they've regretted it .

The fact that the NHS has to bring in strict steps now ... just shows that below 18s were given the treatment or about to be.

I know in America younger trans people are definitely having medication and surgery.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Less than 1% of trans people decide to detransition, but for obvious reasons anti-trans campaigners latch onto these stories because it suits them to ignore the vast majority of trans people who are happy and comfortable.

I don’t know how many times you have to be told, you already have to be 18 before they allow you to have surgery, this belief that under 18’s are just being given surgeries is intellectually dishonest and shows the level of purposeful ignorance involved.

"trans youth"

chilling and worrying

[arista]

Originally Posted by Liam-

A tragic turn of events that’ll lead to even higher self harm and suicide rates for trans youth, I just hope that all the transphobes pushing for things like this can live comfortably knowing they’ll have blood on their hands because of their ignorance

Yes that is sad
Liam

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Liam-

A tragic turn of events that’ll lead to even higher self harm and suicide rates for trans youth, I just hope that all the transphobes pushing for things like this can live comfortably knowing they’ll have blood on their hands because of their ignorance

What a ridiculous and irresponsible claim to make Liam. When did we get to a place where suicide is used as a threat like that? You don't give children life altering drugs with irreversible side effects because they might commit suicide otherwise, when did we get to this point? What the NHS are saying is that they need to explore more thoroughly what's going on in that young persons head before setting them on such an extreme pathway. The reason why the Tavistock is being closed is because there was no other areas of the young persons problems looked at other than their gender claims and evidence strongly suggests that a lot of those claiming to be trans in recent years are autistic and probably not actually trans at all. What is the actual issue in making sure that they are trans before giving them drugs that will cause sterilisation and life long medicalisation? I don't understand why you're so against making sure first?

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

What a ridiculous and irresponsible claim to make Liam. When did we get to a place where suicide is used as a threat like that? You don't give children life altering drugs with irreversible side effects because they might commit suicide otherwise, when did we get to this point? What the NHS are saying is that they need to explore more thoroughly what's going on in that young persons head before setting them on such an extreme pathway. The reason why the Tavistock is being closed is because there was no other areas of the young persons problems looked at other than their gender claims and evidence strongly suggests that a lot of those claiming to be trans in recent years are autistic and probably not actually trans at all. What is the actual issue in making sure that they are trans before giving them drugs that will cause sterilisation and life long medicalisation? I don't understand why you're so against making sure first?

[Liam-]

You can choose not to believe the truth if that’s what you want to do, but just know that you’re seeing these stories because the people behind the anti-trans movement are highlighting those stories to a disproportionate level.

If you’re happy for trans youth to essentially be told that they’re just confused or mentally ill, then I don’t really know what to say to you, but I don’t want to see you say at any point you care about protecting children in these instances because that’s simply not true

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Liam-

You can choose not to believe the truth if that’s what you want to do, but just know that you’re seeing these stories because the people behind the anti-trans movement are highlighting those stories to a disproportionate level.

If you’re happy for trans youth to essentially be told that they’re just confused or mentally ill, then I don’t really know what to say to you, but I don’t want to see you say at any point you care about protecting children in these instances because that’s simply not true

How can you say that when there's members of the LGBT community themselves who think it's WRONG for children to be given puberty blockers and called trans ?. I know what you're saying about the right wing having their agenda. But surely there's a middle ground here.

Well you might not like it , but technically gender dysphoria is a mental condition which gets diagnosed by a doctor . And i wasn't saying all trans people regret their decision, some have transitioned/lived as the opposite gender from age 16 and they're still happy or content .

And it's not very nice to assume i don't care. I don't know why things like mental illness and conditions in general is still stigmatised. I believe transgender is a very real thing . There's been studies and research, to show how for e.g a boy who has gender dysphoria has similar brain patterns to a female.

But the point i'm making is there's different ways to help and support a child who is experiencing this . I don't think the answer should automatically be "yes ok then now you can be the opposite gender" . When you're under 18 you're still a minor and your parents still pretty much tells you what you can and can't do , your voice and feelings should still be listened to though.

Hasn't there even been cases where teachers will go against parents wishes ? just to please a child? .

[Oliver_W]

With the amount of trans-identified people who have other mental disorders, it's good that such things are being considered.

Children and young people who are questioning their "gender" would be better off being given coping strategies to help them come to terms with not being what they "identify" as.

There's no evidence that blockers are safe and reversible, so anything is better than throwing safeguarding to wind.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

With the amount of trans-identified people who have other mental disorders, it's good that such things are being considered.

Children and young people who are questioning their "gender" would be better off being given coping strategies to help them come to terms with not being what they "identify" as.

There's no evidence that blockers are safe and reversible, so anything is better than throwing safeguarding to wind.

Let’s hold it right there. Transsexualism isn’t a mental disorder. That’s an incredibly backwards way of thinking.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Redway

Let’s hold it right there. Transsexualism isn’t a mental disorder. That’s an incredibly backwards way of thinking.

I agree with this.

We may all have different opinions on this thread, but the one thing we do need to be careful of is the way that Trans people are being classed as mentally ill by some people.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Redway

Let’s hold it right there. Transsexualism isn’t a mental disorder. That’s an incredibly backwards way of thinking.

This is from the NHS website itself

Gender dysphoria is a term that describes a sense of unease that a person may have because of a mismatch between their biological sex and their gender identity.

This sense of unease or dissatisfaction may be so intense it can lead to depression and anxiety and have a harmful impact on daily life.


I don't think Oliver meant it in an offensive way ,and technically it is a condition that the doctor diagnoses . Like I keep saying shouldn't the whole point be to DE stigmatise mental health , anxiety,body Dysmorphia etc aswell as other conditions out there.

There's real life science studies to show that trans people's brains are similar to the opposite gender, so clearly their feelings & what they're going through is very real . I don't think anyone is calling them "straight jacket crazy" .
But people especially these days may suffer with other conditions & issues that they need support with. We need to stop stigmatising struggles as we're all human and should help eachother out.

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

This is from the NHS website itself

Gender dysphoria is a term that describes a sense of unease that a person may have because of a mismatch between their biological sex and their gender identity.

This sense of unease or dissatisfaction may be so intense it can lead to depression and anxiety and have a harmful impact on daily life.


I don't think Oliver meant it in an offensive way ,and technically it is a condition that the doctor diagnoses . Like I keep saying shouldn't the whole point be to DE stigmatise mental health , anxiety,body Dysmorphia etc aswell as other conditions out there.

There's real life science studies to show that trans people's brains are similar to the opposite gender, so clearly their feelings & what they're going through is very real . I don't think anyone is calling them "straight jacket crazy" .
But people especially these days may suffer with other conditions & issues that they need support with. We need to stop stigmatising struggles as we're all human and should help eachother out.

Yes . .. that is my take on Oliver’s post .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Redway

Let’s hold it right there. Transsexualism isn’t a mental disorder. That’s an incredibly backwards way of thinking.

It literally is though. Body dysmorphia in general is a mental health disorder, no-one would dispute that. So why does saying that become controversial when we're talking about someone whose "gender identity" doesn't align with what they actually are?

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

It literally is though. Body dysmorphia in general is a mental health disorder, no-one would dispute that. So why does saying that become controversial when we're talking about someone whose "gender identity" doesn't align with what they actually are?

It wasn’t too long ago that homosexuality was a psychiatric diagnosis.

[Redway]

I’m not even pro-trans. like that but I just know I don’t regard them as sick for wanting to transition.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Redway

It wasn’t too long ago that homosexuality was a psychiatric diagnosis.

An attraction to the same sex isn't really comparable to believing your body is wrong. You may as well compare homosexuality to anorexia.

[Crimson Dynamo]

President Joe Biden has said it is wrong to block children’s access to sex change
surgeries or puberty blockers.

Mr Biden, who hosted a popular trans TikToker at the White House last week,
said he believed it was both a moral and legal issue as he spoke to a panel of
activists for the NowThis News presidential forum.

When asked if red states should have the right to pass laws limiting access to
gender reassignment treatments, Mr Biden said in comments published on
Sunday: “I don’t think any state or anybody should have the right to do that.


“As a moral question and as a legal question, I just think it’s wrong,” the
president added.

[Redway]

I’m not saying being woke is enough to defy scientific reality but when it comes to something as nuanced as that there isn’t actually any universal reality. That’s why individuals (of a suitable age, no-doubt) are allowed to make the choice to be who they want to be. Gaslighting people/calling them crazy when they’re obviously functional and experience whatever thoughts and feelings they have in alignment with something subjective to them just isn’t a good look. You don’t have to like them or what they do but if they’re not crazy they’re not crazy. You’re just repulsed by the idea of trans. people doing what they do.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Holiver_and_Ivy

With the amount of trans-identified people who have other mental disorders, it's good that such things are being considered.

Children and young people who are questioning their "gender" would be better off being given coping strategies to help them come to terms with not being what they "identify" as.

There's no evidence that blockers are safe and reversible, so anything is better than throwing safeguarding to wind.

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by Holiver_and_Ivy

There's no evidence that blockers are safe and reversible, so anything is better than throwing safeguarding to wind.

I saw something that touched on this ..

It said that whilst many of the physical changes were somewhat reversible.. any changes to the brain were permanent


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro