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Lostie! · 25-06-2018, 10:13 PM

How creepy was Olivia when she found Jennifer and the medieval primaries? It's fitting the poem calls her a demon because she was going full Exorcist.

(and I've only just realised that her possessing people fits with the description of demon too

)

Niamh. · 26-06-2018, 09:09 AM

Yeah, I'm kind of changing my mind again on how I think it will end, I'm not sure they will actually go back and save child Olivia now at all hhhmm

Lostie! · 26-06-2018, 03:27 PM

"I know what you guys are doing in there. Be careful this time, butt stuff only"

That along with calling Hannah "Mad Maxine" and Olivia "Her Bitchness", Jennifer had some all time great lines in these episodes

Niamh. · 26-06-2018, 04:08 PM

Jennifer is by far the best character tbf

Lostie! · 26-06-2018, 09:16 PM

Olivia's my favourite but Jennifer's great. Tbh the only characters over the show I've not been keen on are Deacon, Ramse and Aaron, everyone else I've enjoyed.

I keep forgetting Aaron existed, feels like a million years ago

Niamh. · 26-06-2018, 09:25 PM

Deacon is kind of growing on me this season

Lostie! · 26-06-2018, 09:34 PM

I like him more than I did the first two seasons but I still just don't feel any real interest or investment in him. He's just there.

I forgot to mention the scene with Cassie apparently starting to come round to the idea of the Red Forest, really interesting. Tbh the idea of it is undoubtedly seductive, which is why I've always liked it as the motivation for the actions of the 12 Monkeys and I like that they're now having one of the good guys actually start to think about it in that light.

It also makes me think about the scene in season 1 when Cole travels to the day of Cassie's death and she asks him if he's found the Red Forest yet.

Niamh. · 27-06-2018, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lostie!

I like him more than I did the first two seasons but I still just don't feel any real interest or investment in him. He's just there.

I forgot to mention the scene with Cassie apparently starting to come round to the idea of the Red Forest, really interesting. Tbh the idea of it is undoubtedly seductive, which is why I've always liked it as the motivation for the actions of the 12 Monkeys and I like that they're now having one of the good guys actually start to think about it in that light.

It also makes me think about the scene in season 1 when Cole travels to the day of Cassie's death and she asks him if he's found the Red Forest yet.

How do you remember that?

but yeah interesting turn of events indeed

Lostie! · 27-06-2018, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamh.

How do you remember that?

but yeah interesting turn of events indeed

My obsession with this show runs deep

(also I rewatched the first half of season 1 earlier this year)

Niamh. · 27-06-2018, 01:18 PM

ah ok

I need a rewatch for definite afterwards, I like noticing all the clues of twisty things afterwards

Lostie! · 27-06-2018, 01:25 PM

Definitely. That's why, although I'll miss the hell out of it, I'm glad it's ending when it was designed to. Shows that go on too long and spiral out of control lose rewatch value. Also, 4 seasons of no longer than 13 episodes is a good length complete story to rewatch without it being a chore.

Niamh. · 27-06-2018, 01:27 PM

Yeah 100%, it means everything that happens from start to finish was all part of the storys plan and makes sense......unlike other shows cough*Lost*cough

Lostie! · 27-06-2018, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yeah 100%, it means everything that happens from start to finish was all part of the storys plan and makes sense......unlike other shows cough*Lost*cough

I KNEW you were gonna mention Lost

I think various plot developments have come to the writers over time (like Olivia being The Witness) but I know that they've known the actual ending since the start. And even with The Witness, they knew for sure it was Olivia since the end of the second season, and apparently the idea was even mentioned during the first.

Niamh. · 27-06-2018, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lostie!

I KNEW you were gonna mention Lost

I think various plot developments have come to the writers over time (like Olivia being The Witness) but I know that they've known the actual ending since the start. And even with The Witness, they knew for sure it was Olivia since the end of the second season, and apparently the idea was even mentioned during the first.

If the cap fits

Oh Olivia was a later idea? I wonder who (if anyone they were thinking about first then)

Lostie! · 27-06-2018, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamh.

If the cap fits

Oh Olivia was a later idea? I wonder who (if anyone they were thinking about first then)

I reckon they were keeping their options open rather than being set on any one particular option early on. Which honestly I don't mind in this case since everything regarding The Witness was always so vague and they planted seeds so that various characters would make sense had it been them and also since the Olivia reveal they've actually made effort to connect it to what we saw with The Witness in earlier seasons etc, even giving an answer for why The Witness wore the outfit we always saw.

My problem isn't necessarily shows not having absolutely everything planned in advance (I think a show that does would be rare tbh), but rather them not bothering to address things they'd set up earlier or do so in a rushed, unsatisfactory way.

The mystery surrounding Cole's mother is another. I personally doubt they knew back when she was mentioned in season 1 who she was and how she tied into the story, but now in the final season they're addressing that and weaving it into the story in a big way rather than forgetting about it or giving us a cop out "answer".

Niamh. · 27-06-2018, 01:57 PM

Oh also, do you think that Madeline Stowes character and Olivias daughter are the same person?

Lostie! · 27-06-2018, 02:00 PM

Hmm, I don't think so but I really want her to show up again before the end. She seemed important but I'm starting to think it was just a significant cameo for fans of the movie.

Doesn't Olivia's daughter have an English accent? I think she was faking the US accent while posing as Elliot Jones' assistant.

Speaking of, it was driving me mad where I recognised her from, she was in the second series of The Missing

Niamh. · 27-06-2018, 02:05 PM

I think she will, I'm sure she has a purpose especially since she was from the original film too

Lostie! · 27-06-2018, 02:14 PM

I really hope so

She'd be a great choice for Cole's mother, of course time travel shenanigans will need to be involved since she's locked up in the 1950s

Now it's clearly not Olivia my top choices for her are Emma, Lillian (Madeleine's character) and Hannah (that sounds random but I've read theories and I'm on board)

Niamh. · 27-06-2018, 02:25 PM

I still think it's possible Emma and Lillian are the same person and Lillian could easily be a time traveler especially if she is Emma, maybe her purpose was to go back there to get Cole and Cassie to move on, I don't know though, I'm so confused maybe she has no real purpose and they just wanted to give her a cameo

Hannah being Coles mother? interesting

Lostie! · 27-06-2018, 02:42 PM

I'd be here for it tbh. I just love how with this show, theories that would sound insane in any other show are legitimate possibilities

(another flashback to when I thought Cassie and Jones were the same person and she used a fake accent in the future

)

And yeah, I'm thinking Hannah would be a cool choice now. A theory points out something that went way over my head; in the first ep of season 3 Jones calls Hannah a "little ****", and in a later episode of the season Cole calls Athan the same thing. Then they pointed out that, also in the first episode of season 3, Hannah also called Cole "you little ****" when she's following him and he tricks her and has her splintered back. Interesting that they have her use that term in the same season that has two instances of parents using it towards their children.

Then there's "Lullaby" when they couldn't break the time loop before they saved young Hannah. Like time needed her to live for some reason. Also in season 1, younger Jones was going to have an abortion before she met Cole and Cassie. Two times time travel has resulted in Hannah living.