[Kate!]

Inspired by the recent thread on the subject.

Poll coming.

Please share your thoughts?

[Livia]

So long as there's protection in place for the vulnerable, I think it's terribly cruel to make people suffer unimaginable pain and trauma.

[arista]

They will not do it.

To many Family Crooks,

Labour Scared

Conservative No way

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Livia

So long as there's protection in place for the vulnerable, I think it's terribly cruel to make people suffer unimaginable pain and trauma.

Bingo.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Livia

So long as there's protection in place for the vulnerable, I think it's terribly cruel to make people suffer unimaginable pain and trauma.

Yup.

I think there should be some kind of "threshold" which should be met, but I think it should definitely be something which is available for those who reach it.

[Liam-]

Yes

[joeysteele]

I really don't think the agenda, criteria and checks could be a secure thing as to leaving this open to outside sources.

It's something I'd like to support but couldn't trust it would be totally securely safe as to checks.

So at this time I'd vote no.

[bots]

its a no from me because it's open to abuse, but i think we are kidding ourselves if we believe it's not happening now with old/terminally ill patients.

Dr Shipman was able to get away with it for years

[Beso]

It should be available to everyone, healthy or not.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by arista

They will not do it.

To many Family Crooks,

Labour Scared

Conservative No way

I have to agree in part.

Not just family, but neighbours can be and even sadly official carers too.

IF and it's an extremely massive if, there would and could be protection and security for the more vulnerable.
Which for me at this time would seem much more than likely impossible.
Then I could look at supporting this.

However there would be much more than likely opportunities for abuse as you mentioned in not so genuine family settings.
However also the others I've mentioned.

I wouldn't even think you could secure it against abuse either by medical professionals.

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by parmnion

It should be available to everyone, healthy or not.

That’s stupid

You got a young person suffering mental health issues and you want to make it legal for them to kill themselves

And because it would be legal in the eyes of the law some would see it as a green light
We should be doing more to stop you people killing themselves not the other way round

[AnnieK]

I think it should only be available like at Dignitas where it for people with a terminal illness but the person who is dying is the one who makes the decision. I don't think that family members should be able to decide when is the time for a person to die.

I do think there should be more dignity in dying when an illness is terminal. Watching my mum suffer at the end of her life still haunts me (even though I don't think she was overly aware as she was heavily sedated but no food for 2 weeks, no liquids for days etc)

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

I think it should only be available like at Dignitas where it for people with a terminal illness but the person who is dying is the one who makes the decision. I don't think that family members should be able to decide when is the time for a person to die.

I do think there should be more dignity in dying when an illness is terminal. Watching my mum suffer at the end of her life still haunts me (even though I don't think she was overly aware as she was heavily sedated but no food for 2 weeks, no liquids for days etc)

Agree with all of this, it would need to be heavily regulated so it could not be abused

[Beso]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

That’s stupid

You got a young person suffering mental health issues and you want to make it legal for them to kill themselves

And because it would be legal in the eyes of the law some would see it as a green light
We should be doing more to stop you people killing themselves not the other way round

Ok.

If you can prove you are of sane mind, like you have to with a will. Then, and only then should you be allowed to end your life peacefully.

[Crimson Dynamo]

There are a few good books written on this subject. I read one it was fascinating

I just could not put it down

[user104658]

Yes - with checks and balances.

Only at actual end-of-life (which eliminates the "feeling like a burden" risk - I wouldn't have it be for anyone who is terminally ill, literally for people who are within days of death)

Only with agreement of BOTH medical experts and the patient or their advocates, not one or the other.

Only when it's objectively clear that there's unmanageable physical suffering.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

I do think there should be more dignity in dying when an illness is terminal. Watching my mum suffer at the end of her life still haunts me (even though I don't think she was overly aware as she was heavily sedated but no food for 2 weeks, no liquids for days etc)

I sadly had the same experience Annie and I just found the whole thing so utterly sad and pointless. I don't think she was suffering because she was medicated and sedated to the point that she wouldn't have been aware of anything, likely not even dreaming, effectively dead already but with weeks of watching her organs fail and her practically starting to decay there in the bed while she was still breathing. I have seemingly permanent images of the scene imprinted on my mind that are haunting. My sister who was by her bedside 24/7 has honestly not been the same since, and it was 9 years ago. There was NO point, NO benefit to her being left to die slowly like that, other than to cause trauma in her family, the last thing she would ever have wanted.

I don't mean to be graphic but I think it's important to be honest. It's not like Hollywood.

[Beso]

I had to lift my skeletal bodied pancreatic cancered old man out his bed so he could piss in my arms the last time I saw him. I didnt know if I should have laughed or cried. I cried.

[Beso]

When you think of this a bit more. I've had years if major depression that I've fought against since my son died.

I've managed, but there have been months and months of deep dark days over the past 11 years. Months I could easily have decided to end it. I even half heartedly did once. The only thing stopping me was the tackiness of it all and what I would have left behind.

But as a believer if God, and the afterlife. I reckon during the first 2 years I would have taken the legal way out, and been the happiest I have been for the past 11 years when I did it.

You can plan your last few months, and make them the most fulfilling you could with your means.

I reckon it's the way to go to be honest.

[Kate!]

Originally Posted by parmnion

When you think of this a bit more. I've had years if major depression that I've fought against since my son died.

I've managed, but there have been months and months of deep dark days over the past 11 years. Months I could easily have decided to end it. I even half heartedly did once. The only thing stopping me was the tackiness of it all and what I would have left behind.

But as a believer if God, and the afterlife. I reckon during the first 2 years I would have taken the legal way out, and been the happiest I have been for the past 11 years when I did it.

You can plan your last few months, and make them the most fulfilling you could with your means.

I reckon it's the way to go to be honest.

Thanks for sharing this Parm.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

I sadly had the same experience Annie and I just found the whole thing so utterly sad and pointless. I don't think she was suffering because she was medicated and sedated to the point that she wouldn't have been aware of anything, likely not even dreaming, effectively dead already but with weeks of watching her organs fail and her practically starting to decay there in the bed while she was still breathing. I have seemingly permanent images of the scene imprinted on my mind that are haunting. My sister who was by her bedside 24/7 has honestly not been the same since, and it was 9 years ago. There was NO point, NO benefit to her being left to die slowly like that, other than to cause trauma in her family, the last thing she would ever have wanted.

I don't mean to be graphic but I think it's important to be honest. It's not like Hollywood.

Ditto with the way my mum cried when hers died (it wasn't extreme or anything, just heart-breaking). My grandma was ill for the best part of 18 months before she died but there were times when she was actually much better, including the month or two before she died. And the saddest thing is that she wasn't even old (barely 64).

[Redway]

Originally Posted by parmnion

I had to lift my skeletal bodied pancreatic cancered old man out his bed so he could piss in my arms the last time I saw him. I didnt know if I should have laughed or cried. I cried.

That sounds really tough, parmie. I've had some dark experiences and seen things (and I know people who have died of pancreatic cancer) but as far as I'm concerned little that would compare to that.

[Redway]

I couldn't do it (hold them to let them do a no.-1 n my arms). Not when someone's that frail. You're a brave man, parmy.

Pancreatic cancer is such an awful disease.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Redway

I couldn't do it (hold them to let them do a no.-1 n my arms). Not when someone's that frail. You're a brave man, parmy.

Pancreatic cancer is such an awful disease.

I didnt really know that's what he wanted to do. He was just trying to move, and talk. It just happened. He just somehow ended up at the side of the bed slumped in my arms pissing. He died 3 days later and that was the last time I saw him. I think he meant it knowing I would do the same to him.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Redway

Ditto with the way my mum cried when hers died (it wasn't extreme or anything, just heart-breaking). My grandma was ill for the best part of 18 months before she died but there were times when she was actually much better, including the month or two before she died. And the saddest thing is that she wasn't even old (barely 64).

Yes my own mum died at 60, though as above I'd say it was 59 and she didn't really see 60 - she was heavily sedated in hospital on her 60th birthday and not aware of what was going on around her. She died about 2 weeks after that.

It feels like an endless cycle at times - my mum died of multiple organ failure due to alcoholism and the fact that she drank on top of a load of prescription medication for depression, anxiety and pain (her liver went first, her whole body followed quickly).

Her own depression and alcoholism was sparked by caring for her OWN mother while she was dying. She was hit by a car and suffered a serious head injury, declined over about 3 months during which my mum cared for her in our home and she died there. She never got over that and it was the catalyst for her own death in the end.