[arista]

Another 5 Day Strike

Thursday 27 June until 2nd of July

Junior doctors call five-day strike just before election

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-69072640

[MTVN]

Shouldn't be allowed in the public sector so close to an election

[arista]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Shouldn't be allowed in the public sector so close to an election

It's because of the General Election
they have picked these 5 days

[arista]

Back when it was Cold

[DemRed]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

35% is a joke though. Believe me, I have relied on these doctors, so i greatly appreciate them, but this increase is taking the piss

Ł18.90 ph for someone who already has their degree which btw cost each individual Ł125,000 and a further two years foundation training before they are qualified as a junior doctor. They remain a junior doctor typically for 8 to 20 years and during that time they will be expected to do between 11 to 13 hours shift.

The average salary for a junior vet is Ł26 per hour

[joeysteele]

I've not changed my position.
I stand wholeheartedly with the Junior Doctors.

They've been treated abominably by the Con governments, firstly with Jeremy Hunt just under 10 years ago when he was Health secretary.
Plus with every Health secretary from Johnson becoming PM too.

I wish them success in their justified battle here.

[bots]

if labour get in, it will be interesting how they handle it after having had so much to say about the tories actions.

[arista]

[user104658]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I've not changed my position.
I stand wholeheartedly with the Junior Doctors.

They've been treated abominably by the Con governments, firstly with Jeremy Hunt just under 10 years ago when he was Health secretary.
Plus with every Health secretary from Johnson becoming PM too.

I wish them success in their justified battle here.

I fully support campaigning for better pay for professional level NHS staff in principle, however that's not really the issue at all here. It's that they're planning strike action against ... An empty room. It completely misses the point of what strike action is and how it works.

The point of a strike is... You threaten to strike, you negotiate, the offer is either good enough to stop it or it isn't and then you strike, during which time negotiations continue to end the strike action.

Part of the whole mechanism of strike action and the whole point is to actually NOT strike because a deal has been struck.

In this case... Parliament will have been dissolved a month before the strike, and no new govt will be on place yet.

The room is EMPTY, there's no one to negotiate with. There's no possibility of averting or ending the strike early with a pay settlement. There's no one home.

It makes absolutely no sense.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

I fully support campaigning for better pay for professional level NHS staff in principle, however that's not really the issue at all here. It's that they're planning strike action against ... An empty room. It completely misses the point of what strike action is and how it works.

The point of a strike is... You threaten to strike, you negotiate, the offer is either good enough to stop it or it isn't and then you strike, during which time negotiations continue to end the strike action.

Part of the whole mechanism of strike action and the whole point is to actually NOT strike because a deal has been struck.

In this case... Parliament will have been dissolved a month before the strike, and no new govt will be on place yet.

The room is EMPTY, there's no one to negotiate with. There's no possibility of averting or ending the strike early with a pay settlement. There's no one home.

It makes absolutely no sense.

I can agree partly with a lot there.
However this isn't a new dispute, this has gone on for over 18 months at least.

There have been it appears no meaningful and sincere negotiations from this government.

I can't and won't condemn the Junior Doctors.
In the last dispute when Hunt was Health secretary.
3 of my Cousins who were Doctors in the NHS, left and 2 went to Australia the other to New Zealand.

This government still after all the Health secretaries there has been since Johnson's leadership.
Have payed nothing more than lip service to the NHS and Junior Doctors.

So I stand with them totally.
Anytime they go on strike, it is never the right time for those opposed to strike action.
However this government has had way more than ample or full time to find a solution to this dispute.

I'm not going to condemn the Junior Doctors now for admittedly a not the best time to strike.
It makes little difference,. whenever there's been the strikes over the last 18 months+ this government has never.tried to either avert said strikes or talk during them.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I can agree partly with a lot there.
However this isn't a new dispute, this has gone on for over 18 months at least.

There have been it appears no meaningful and sincere negotiations from this government.

I can't and won't condemn the Junior Doctors.
In the last dispute when Hunt was Health secretary.
3 of my Cousins who were Doctors in the NHS, left and 2 went to Australia the other to New Zealand.

This government still after all the Health secretaries there has been since Johnson's leadership.
Have payed nothing more than lip service to the NHS and Junior Doctors.

So I stand with them totally.
Anytime they go on strike, it is never the right time for those opposed to strike action.
However this government has had way more than ample or full time to find a solution to this dispute.

I'm not going to condemn the Junior Doctors now for admittedly a not the best time to strike.
It makes little difference,. whenever there's been the strikes over the last 18 months+ this government has never.tried to either avert said strikes or talk during them.

I get that but in this case they are literally striking against no one - standing in front of an empty chair with a placard... it's not that what I think they're doing is wrong in a moral sense, I just think it's a waste of time and makes no sense. I also think [well, know] that a lot of Junior Doctors do actually agree with that.

IMO it would be much more effective to wait and see who gets into power. Assuming it's Labour, immediately get them to commit to improvements that they were all for when they were in opposition. If they start "humming and ahhing" and dragging their heels over it, at THAT point, strike hard. The first Labour govt. in 15 years does not want that sort of heat as soon as they enter power.

Striking before the election if anything completely mutes the effectiveness of any further strike action later in 2024/early 2025.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

I get that but in this case they are literally striking against no one - standing in front of an empty chair with a placard... it's not that what I think they're doing is wrong in a moral sense, I just think it's a waste of time and makes no sense. I also think [well, know] that a lot of Junior Doctors do actually agree with that.

IMO it would be much more effective to wait and see who gets into power. Assuming it's Labour, immediately get them to commit to improvements that they were all for when they were in opposition. If they start "humming and ahhing" and dragging their heels over it, at THAT point, strike hard. The first Labour govt. in 15 years does not want that sort of heat as soon as they enter power.

Striking before the election if anything completely mutes the effectiveness of any further strike action later in 2024/early 2025.

Yes I can see the sense in what you're saying.
Particularly your last paragraph.

I'll allow myself the optimism still of a hopeful end to strikes after this election.
No matter who won it.

Yes though, I'll think on what you've stated there

[Beso]

Up sticks and immigrate to Australia and New Zealand....on their wages...how?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Up sticks and immigrate to Australia and New Zealand....on their wages...how?

I've not looked into NZ but I know Aus are (or were at one point recently, dunno if it's still the case) offering large financial incentives for qualified doctors & nurses to move there for work (on top of them already having far higher salaries).

It's not that hard to ex-pat if you have professional qualifications in hand. Everywhere needs healthcare staff.

[arista]

Yes sadly SB

Loads are leaving for Australia
Upgrading to a New Home
Big Pay as a Doctor there.

They are healthier
down under

[bots]

Once people get into a particular mindset, it doesn't matter if no-one is listening, it doesn't matter if their actions are not seen as logical, it doesn't matter if they are justified or not

Look around, this type of thing is happening more and more regularly all around the world. I don't understand it, but it's happening none the less and it's only going to become more and more common

[arista]