[setanta]

Originally Posted by InOne

As I have said. There may be a God but Religion is man made. Fact.

You're going back on yourself now. You said life is meaningless earier on.

[Wildcat!]

Anyways
I ask some questions to scholars sometimes, and they dont have an answer for me. Like in Islam there are these scriptures (not in the Kuran, but apparently, they were teachings from the prophet), that tell you what you will get in heaven, and how its gonna be, and so on and so forth.
SO there is this passage, that states, you will get the most beautiful women, that when you see them, you will be blinded by their beauties etc.....
SO I asked him, so what about the women? WHat do they care about these beautiful heavenly females? And he was stumped, he didnt have an answer for me.
So that made me conclude, well, I am buying into these scriptures anymore. ITs obvious, it was written by someone who only considered the men, since at the time, they were very dominant.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by setanta

You're going back on yourself now. You said life is meaningless earier on.

It is, does a God make life meaninful? Or is that something the Humans came up with!

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Wildcat!

LOL! I cant believe someone would be so narrow minded. ANd the funny thing about people like that is, they thing religious people are narrow minded (some are, fair enough), but a lot less than him.
Anyways, to me, its great to believe in a religion, but if you know its history, you should realise that not all of it is perfect. SOme were interpreted, and given maybe the wrong meanings. So its good to question certain aspects of them. I questions some things in my religion all the time. Because some of the things in it, I simply dont agree with, and some I find wrong. FIrstly, the scriptures (most of them), are opened to interpretations, and certain people took it upon themselves, to give the one and only interpretation. So there is room for them getting it wrong, because they are human, just like me. WHich imo, gives me the right to disagree with certain interpretations.
BUt I will never come out and say, thats rubbish, religion doent exist, god doesnt exist etc...

You just said it was a great thing to believe in a religion then you gave virtually every one of the best reasons for NOT believing in a religion.

Why cant you just search for God without the need for the crutch of religion? You said it yourself, there are endless interpretations. How do you know yours is right based on what you selfishly choose to either accept or reject? Why bother at all?

[InOne]

Originally Posted by Wildcat!

Anyways
I ask some questions to scholars sometimes, and they dont have an answer for me. Like in Islam there are these scriptures (not in the Kuran, but apparently, they were teachings from the prophet), that tell you what you will get in heaven, and how its gonna be, and so on and so forth.
SO there is this passage, that states, you will get the most beautiful women, that when you see them, you will be blinded by their beauties etc.....
SO I asked him, so what about the women? WHat do they care about these beautiful heavenly females? And he was stumped, he didnt have an answer for me.
So that made me conclude, well, I am buying into these scriptures anymore. ITs obvious, it was written by someone who only considered the men, since at the time, they were very dominant.

Yep man. Was easy way for people with power at the time to take control.

[InOne]

Oh yeah and why is 'Christians' is the serious debates section?

[Wildcat!]

Originally Posted by ProbeEight

You just said it was a great thing to believe in a religion then you gave virtually every one of the best reasons for NOT believing in a religion.

Why cant you just search for God without the need for the crutch of religion? You said it yourself, there are endless interpretations. How do you know yours is right based on what you selfishly choose to either accept or reject? Why bother at all?

Thats not the religion though. did you even read my post? Thast some scriptures, that people claim, are from the prophet mohammed. BUt they are not from the Kuran. MY point is, this could be just something someone claimed, he heard the prophet MOhammed say. Which is not necessarily true.
I dont refute anything that says in the book. But its very poetic. And when I dont understand something, I will ask people to explain, but will only accept it, i it makes sense to me. I wont accept anything that doesnt make sense in my mind. And me believing in god, does not mean I dont need the help of the book. ANd it gives me structure, and guidance.

Its like saying, why o you listen to your parents, and follow what they say? Why not just do whatever pleases you? Or why do you believe teachers, and their teachings? ITs a silly attitude to have imo. BUt to each their own.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by Wildcat!

Thats not the religion though. did you even read my post? Thast some scriptures, that people claim, are from the prophet mohammed. BUt they are not from the Kuran. MY point is, this could be just something someone claimed, he heard the prophet MOhammed say. Which is not necessarily true.

Ahhh Mohammed an illiterate paedophile. Such a great prophet.

[Wildcat!]

Originally Posted by InOne

Ahhh Mohammed an illiterate paedophile. Such a great prophet.

You just crossed the line with me with that. Have a nice life.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by Wildcat!

You just crossed the line with me with that. Have a nice life.

I'll try.

[MiuMiu]

Originally Posted by ProbeEight

And just because I am in the mood, for all the ladies out there...

* Corinthians, 14:34-35: "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."

* Exodus 21:7-8: And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do. If she please not her master, who hath betrothed her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed: to sell her unto a strange nation he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her."

* Genesis 3:16: "Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee."

* Genesis 19:8 "Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes"

* Leviticus 19:20: "And whosoever lieth carnally with a woman, that is a bondmaid, betrothed to an husband, and not at all redeemed, nor freedom given her; she shall be scourged; they shall not be put to death, because she was not free."

* Leviticus 27:3-7: "And thy estimation shall be of the male from twenty years old even unto sixty years old, even thy estimation shall be fifty shekels of silver... And if it be a female, then thy estimation shall be thirty shekels. And if it be from five years old even unto twenty years old, then thy estimation shall be of the male twenty shekels, and for the female ten shekels. And if it be from a month old even unto five years old, then thy estimation shall be of the male five shekels of silver, and for the female thy estimation shall be three shekels of silver. And if it be from sixty years old and above; if it be a male, then thy estimation shall be fifteen shekels, and for the female ten shekels."

* Deuteronomy 21:11-14: And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife. Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house, and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails. And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife. And it shall be, if thou have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go whither she will..."

* Genesis 25:1 "Then again Abraham took a wife, and her name was Keturah." [Only problem is that Abraham already had a wife (Sarah), and an abandoned concubine (Hagar).]

* 26:34, 29:29 "And Esau was forty years old when he took to wife Judith the daughter of Beeri the Hittite, and Bashemath the daughter of Elon the Hittite. ... Then went Esau unto Ishmael, and took unto the wives which he had Mahalath the daughter of Ishmael Abraham's son, the sister of Nebajoth, to be his wife."

* Genesis 32:22: "And he rose up that night, and took his two wives, and his two womenservants, "

* Genesis 36:6: "And Esau took his wives...."

What an awesome post.


But don't forget about
"give not thy strength unto women
nor thy ways to that which destroyeth kings"
Proverbs 31:3

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by MiuMiu

What an awesome post.


But don't forget about
"give not thy strength unto women
nor thy ways to that which destroyeth kings"
Proverbs 31:3

It is not an "awesome" (are you American?) post it is a person who does not understand the Bible, the OT or the NT.

Look at the role of women in the NT. They discovered Jesus had risen from the dead, they founded churches (Lydia) they gave birth to the messiah.

All of the above was incredible to first century life and rather illustrates that if people had wanted to bend truth and convert people through decit they certainly would not have used women in prominent roles.

To quote out of context is to remove a passage from its surrounding matter in such a way as to distort its meaning. The context in which a passage occurs always contributes to its meaning, and the shorter the passage the larger the contribution. For this reason, the quoter must always be careful to quote enough of the context not to misrepresent the meaning of the quote. Of course, in some sense, all quotation is out of context, but by a "contextomy", I refer only to those quotes whose meaning is changed by a loss of context. The fallacy of Quoting Out of Context is committed when a contextomy is offered as evidence in an argument....

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

It is not an "awesome" (are you American?) post it is a person who does not understand the Bible, the OT or the NT.

Look at the role of women in the NT. They discovered Jesus had risen from the dead, they founded churches (Lydia) they gave birth to the messiah.

All of the above was incredible to first century life and rather illustrates that if people had wanted to bend truth and convert people through decit they certainly would not have used women in prominent roles.

To quote out of context is to remove a passage from its surrounding matter in such a way as to distort its meaning. The context in which a passage occurs always contributes to its meaning, and the shorter the passage the larger the contribution. For this reason, the quoter must always be careful to quote enough of the context not to misrepresent the meaning of the quote. Of course, in some sense, all quotation is out of context, but by a "contextomy", I refer only to those quotes whose meaning is changed by a loss of context. The fallacy of Quoting Out of Context is committed when a contextomy is offered as evidence in an argument....

It was a very good post, insulting the words someone uses however isn't good posting in my opinion.

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally Posted by ProbeEight

The whole world needs an entire collective reawakening. We need to realise out beliefs are just that. Beliefs. We need to realise there is a space in between religion and atheism. But we are too wrapped up in our own brain cell sapping culture of artificial food, prescription medication and ****ing trash television. Like you said, we think we are so great that we have overcome all possible spiritual explanations for the universe. Which is a joke. Take nothing for granted. Life is a ride. Enjoy it while you can.

I think your right in there being a space inbetween, Im a believer in critical evalution and rational scientific observation but there doesnt have to be a complete dismissal of all things spiritual just because we cant and never will be able to quantify it. That doesnt mean everyone should follow a religion and the world would be a better place (clearly that never worked) but we can learn, develop as humans and become mentally healthier from looking (with a rational and critical eye) at all spiritual teachings and start living for the good of all of humanity and not just our own selfish urges.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Wildcat!

Thats not the religion though. did you even read my post? Thast some scriptures, that people claim, are from the prophet mohammed. BUt they are not from the Kuran. MY point is, this could be just something someone claimed, he heard the prophet MOhammed say. Which is not necessarily true.
I dont refute anything that says in the book. But its very poetic. And when I dont understand something, I will ask people to explain, but will only accept it, i it makes sense to me. I wont accept anything that doesnt make sense in my mind. And me believing in god, does not mean I dont need the help of the book. ANd it gives me structure, and guidance.

Its like saying, why o you listen to your parents, and follow what they say? Why not just do whatever pleases you? Or why do you believe teachers, and their teachings? ITs a silly attitude to have imo. BUt to each their own.

Did you even read my post? I was not talking about the Koran. Whats the title of this thread, again? I was merely saying that there are so many different interpretations of The Bible that how do people know there interpretation is right? Why bother at all?

To be honest I cant really follow much of what you are saying so I will leave it at that. You seem to be talking about Islam, which I don't know anything about admittedly .

I do, however, know a lot about the Bible. LeatherTrumpet's accusation that I don't comes from his specific interpretation of the Bible. Again showing how fallacious it is. He says it is all about context. That is a blanket argument that could be applied to absolutely anything in the Bible.

I suppose when Jesus talks about Adam & Eve he did not really believe in creationism, he was just speaking in the context of a parable? After all, like I have already said, and which no Christian on this forum has been able to respond to thus far : The PROOF that the world is more than 4,000 years old and Jesus himself, YOUR messiah, being a creationist seem utterly incompatible with one another. He spoke of Adam & Eve. He spoke of original sin. He spoke of Noah, the ark and the flood that covered the entire planet.

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

It was a very good post, insulting the words someone uses however isn't good posting in my opinion.

Repped. Who knows. His church might have banned the use of the word 'awesome'.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

It was a very good post, insulting the words someone uses however isn't good posting in my opinion.

Are you saying that enquiring if someone is American is now considered an insult? Oh the sensitive sensibilities of the "i cant think of a rebuttal" poster.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by ProbeEight

Did you even read my post? I was not talking about the Koran. Whats the title of this thread, again? I was merely saying that there are so many different interpretations of The Bible that how do people know there interpretation is right? Why bother at all?

To be honest I cant really follow much of what you are saying so I will leave it at that. You seem to be talking about Islam, which I don't know anything about admittedly .

I do, however, know a lot about the Bible. LeatherTrumpet's accusation that I don't comes from his specific interpretation of the Bible. Again showing how fallacious it is. He says it is all about context. That is a blanket argument that could be applied to absolutely anything in the Bible.

I suppose when Jesus talks about Adam & Eve he did not really believe in creationism, he was just speaking in the context of a parable? After all, like I have already said, and which no Christian on this forum has been able to respond to thus far : The PROOF that the world is more than 4,000 years old and Jesus himself, YOUR messiah, being a creationist seem utterly incompatible with one another. He spoke of Adam & Eve. He spoke of original sin. He spoke of Noah, the ark and the flood that covered the entire planet.


Repped. Who knows. His church might have banned the use of the word 'awesome'.

straw

man

city

Arizona (which coincidently is in America, I have heard it looks awesome)

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Are you saying that enquiring if someone is American is now considered an insult? Oh the sensitive sensibilities of the "i cant think of a rebuttal" poster.

Well, maybe I took you up wrong, as this is all reading words only, I can't pick up your tone but to me it implied that unless she was American she wasn't allowed to use the word awesome?

Also, the I can't think of rebuttal??? There was no rebuttal to be had, she was complimenting Probeeights post, as was I?????

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

Well, maybe I took you up wrong, as this is all reading words only, I can't pick up your tone but to me it implied that unless she was American she wasn't allowed to use the word awesome?

Also, the I can't think of rebuttal??? There was no rebuttal to be had, she was complimenting Probeeights post, as was I?????

Awesome is an insidious creep over word from the USA, just like ending every sentence on the UP (like a question?)

Mind you, what we abhor about the USA we tend to adopt 5 years later. Or at least, I guess so....

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Awesome is an insidious creep over word from the USA, just like ending every sentence on the UP (like a question?)

Mind you, what we abhor about the USA we tend to adopt 5 years later. Or at least, I guess so....

Are you taking a pop at me now for ending my sentences as question? I am looking for an answer, so they are questions!

There are lots of words people use that have originated in other countries, that's not a crime is it?

[Stu]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

straw

man

city

Arizona (which coincidently is in America, I have heard it looks awesome)

Wow. Incredible argument.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by ProbeEight

Wow. Incredible argument.

"Repped. Who knows. His church might have banned the use of the word 'awesome'. "

[Stu]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

"Repped. Who knows. His church might have banned the use of the word 'awesome'. "

Well it did sound strange that you questioned why she used the word awesome, then basically denied her the right to an opinion by telling her it was not awesome because, god forbid, somebody agreed with me and not you.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by ProbeEight

Well it did sound strange that you questioned why she used the word awesome, then basically denied her the right to an opinion by telling her it was not awesome because, god forbid, somebody agreed with me and not you.

and i did not even mention the odious use of the word.. repped (wtf)

any minute now someone will be saying "dude"


this is not the Wire, its the UK

[Stu]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

and i did not even mention the odious use of the word.. repped (wtf)

any minute now someone will be saying "dude"


this is not the Wire, its the UK

Well for a start, I am not living in the UK. Number two, repped is used on dozens of forums, including the People's Republic Of Cork, which is where I picked it up. A Cork forum. An Irish Cork forum.

I find it strange that you are unwilling to get into debates that could possibly test your faith, yet your getting your vagina in a tangle because somebody strung the letters r-e-p-p-e and d together?

Your special, aren't you?