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Crimson Dynamo · 22-03-2010, 09:56 AM

true

Raph · 22-03-2010, 10:05 AM

true.

Stu · 22-03-2010, 11:19 AM

True. Just like it can't deny that outside this universe lies another made entirely out of fudge. Just like it can't deny that a small toy rabbit is caught between a rock fourteen miles below the Earth's surface. Just like it can't deny a lot of silly things it's not really up to to deny, really.

Niamh. · 22-03-2010, 12:02 PM

So?

Shasown · 22-03-2010, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

true

Isnt that why its called Faith?

setanta · 22-03-2010, 12:03 PM

For once I agree with you LT. Reading a great book on the whole thing.

Crimson Dynamo · 22-03-2010, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by setanta

For once I agree with you LT. Reading a great book on the whole thing.

Which one?

setanta · 22-03-2010, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Which one?

The Spiritual Brain.

bananarama · 22-03-2010, 04:28 PM

Science can neither confirm or deny the big bang theory of the universe........

To validate the big bang theory they have had to invent forces such as (inflation) imediately after the so called big bang) Dark matter which they canot prove or see.......Dark energy which also is not provable......And now their latest fly in the ointment to keep the big bang theory alive is "Dark flow".......

Which proves one thing for sure about the science of our origin is that in reality they know F all.......Execpt what is in their imagination just as religions do science of the universe live on the theory of dreams and self delusions.....All based on complex mathematics of course just to confuse themselves and other that little bit more........Cherry on the cake so to speak.....

Tom4784 · 22-03-2010, 04:33 PM

Exactly nobody knows anything for sure, it's pointless for people to get their knickers in a twist about Religion since it's all about belief then fact.

For me personally I'm quite agnostic.

Crimson Dynamo · 22-03-2010, 04:41 PM

there is a lot of faith in science

Captain.Remy · 22-03-2010, 04:45 PM

That's pretty much why this debate is an never-ending one: facts vs faith.

Stu · 22-03-2010, 04:56 PM

Why should fate be seperated from science? Why do we need some sort of insane free will to believe in whatever we want to believe in on the grounds that it's 'faith'? Yeah, screw science, I have great faith that the inside of Jupiter is made of candy floss. Insane, no? Faith allows you to maintain delusions and get away with it.

LT, science is not based on faith. Science is based on accepted, researched fact. If it's not fact, then it's just a theory. There is no faith involved in facts, which is what science is based on. Cross checked, tested, rigorously examined facts.

That's the beauty of science. It doesn't shy away from criticizm, it thrives on it. Heavy handed critique improves science. Not destroy it.

Crimson Dynamo · 22-03-2010, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain.Remy

That's pretty much why this debate is an never-ending one: facts vs faith.

not facts versus faith

information that we have at the moment and faith. there is lots of faith in science and lots of facts in religion. You have fallen into the trap of thinking all religion is faith and all science is fact. not so.

Firewire · 22-03-2010, 04:57 PM

Exactly.

Personally I do not believe in God.

But there is no proof that he is real nor is there proof that he isn't.

Stu · 22-03-2010, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonathan.

Exactly.

Personally I do not believe in God.

But there is no proof that he is real nor is there proof that he isn't.

Like there is no proof against the notion that there are breadcrumbs and easter eggs orbiting around Betelgeuse?

Crimson Dynamo · 22-03-2010, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judas Iscariot

Why should fate be seperated from science? Why do we need some sort of insane free will to believe in whatever we want to believe in on the grounds that it's 'faith'? Yeah, screw science, I have great faith that the inside of Jupiter is made of candy floss. Insane, no? Faith allows you to maintain delusions and get away with it.

LT, science is not based on faith. Science is based on accepted, researched fact. If it's not fact, then it's just a theory. There is no faith involved in facts, which is what science is based on. Cross checked, tested, rigorously examined facts.

That's the beauty of science. It doesn't shy away from criticizm, it thrives on it. Heavy handed critique improves science. Not destroy it.

no one said that science is based on faith?

science is not facts. there are very few facts. science is based on what information we have available. Most of our current scientific "facts" may well be deemed untrue in 200 years time. Cross checked, tested, rigorously examined facts as you call them are just based on the information and understanding we have now. tomorrow it could be superseded.

Captain.Remy · 22-03-2010, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

not facts versus faith

information that we have at the moment and faith. there is lots of faith in science and lots of facts in religion. You have fallen into the trap of thinking all religion is faith and all science is fact. not so.

I didn't want to get into a philosophical debate at 7pm after a hard day of work so I made it general. It's the issue that always will be discussed over and over again until the world is over by the scientists and the religious. Science explains a lot of useful things about life but it has its weaknesses too. Science does not influence people's mind, emotions (and wars by the way) Religion does. It's not a "black or white" situation. I don't think I will be alive to see who has the most right, I don't think we will ever know either. Both are right, both are wrong, but to what extent ? Who's right on which part ?

Crimson Dynamo · 22-03-2010, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain.Remy

I didn't want to get into a philosophical debate at 7pm after a hard day of work so I made it general. It's the issue that always will be discussed over and over again until the world is over by the scientists and the religious. Sciences explains a lot of useful things about life but it has its weaknesses too. Science does not influence with people's mind, emotions (and wars by the way) Religion does. It's not a "black or white" situation. I don't think I will be alive to see who has the most right, I don't think we will ever know either. Both are right, both are wrong, but to what extent ? Who's right on which part ?

just why did France play with Scotland tops on?

setanta · 22-03-2010, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judas Iscariot

Why should fate be seperated from science? Why do we need some sort of insane free will to believe in whatever we want to believe in on the grounds that it's 'faith'? Yeah, screw science, I have great faith that the inside of Jupiter is made of candy floss. Insane, no? Faith allows you to maintain delusions and get away with it.

LT, science is not based on faith. Science is based on accepted, researched fact. If it's not fact, then it's just a theory. There is no faith involved in facts, which is what science is based on. Cross checked, tested, rigorously examined facts.

That's the beauty of science. It doesn't shy away from criticizm, it thrives on it. Heavy handed critique improves science. Not destroy it.

Not entirely true Stu as scientific laws and theories continue to be debated and amended all the time. There's definitely an element of faith involved in some areas of Science and it doesn't have many answers to the eternal mystery of our creation and our hearts, minds and souls.

Stu · 22-03-2010, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

no one said that science is based on faith?

science is not facts. there are very few facts. science is based on what information we have available. Most of our current scientific "facts" may well be deemed untrue in 200 years time. Cross checked, tested, rigorously examined facts as you call them are just based on the information and understanding we have now. tomorrow it could be superseded.

I agree partly with what your getting at. Of course science is an ever improving venture, but that gives us every reason to support it, rather than suspend it in lieu of the delusion enabler known as faith.

Unfortunately, there is virtually no substance behind what your saying. Your just making blank statements that allow you to believe in things like, say, The Bible, despite all scientific, rational evidence against certain aspects of it.

Which bits of science do you think are possibly untrue and could possibly be amended in the future? Is something we have already discovered and accepted as scientific fact going to suddenly turn out to be bollocks and hey presto, science steps in? Your argument is abstract and ambiguous to say the least, which is a common theme in faith. Less so in science.

Science can only improve. Faith will always be faith.

Captain.Remy · 22-03-2010, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

just why did France play with Scotland tops on?

It's not Scotland's, it's ours. Scotland's tops are black and blue.

Stu · 22-03-2010, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by setanta

Not entirely true Stu as scientific laws and theories continue to be debated and amended all the time. There's definitely an element of faith involved in some areas of Science and it doesn't have many answers to the eternal mystery of our creation and our hearts, minds and souls.

Obviously. That's just what science is. An ever improving, ever critical venture into trying to understand. Look how much it has advanced in the last one hundred years alone. We are learning more and more about ourselves and the cosmos we inhabit. That is only going to continue. Whereas you can sit cross legged for eternity trying to figure out your 'soul', an indescribable idea based on nothing more than the lovey dovey, admittedly romantic assumption of 'I reckon I have a soul, I do'.

Science is working on our creation right now, and has been for quiet some time. We know quiet a bit about the mind as it is

.

setanta · 22-03-2010, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judas Iscariot

Obviously. That's just what science is. An ever improving, ever critical venture into trying to understand. Look how much it has advanced in the last one hundred years alone. We are learning more and more about ourselves and the cosmos we inhabit. That is only going to continue. Whereas you can sit cross legged for eternity trying to figure out your 'soul', an indescribable idea based on nothing more than the lovey dovey, admittedly romantic assumption of 'I reckon I have a soul, I do'.

Science is working on our creation right now, and has been for quiet some time. We know quiet a bit about the mind as it is

.

Not really. And science is very rigid when it concerns certain areas of humanity, focusing on the materialistic and physical rather than trying to explore other avenues of thought. Sometimes scientists can be very arrogant about their assumptions - exhibit A, Richard Dawkins.

I'm not disputing the fact that science has had a profound influence on our lives and how we lead them, but it doesn't hold the answers right now to why we are as we are right now or why we abandoned our basic animal needs and became altruistic/compassionate in nature. I find that whole area so fascinating, as well as psychokinesis, near death experiences and how spirituality came into our lives. They can't explain it yet, or at least when they try to it doesn't really do it for me.