[Ammi]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

again. no idea what point you are making or how it relates to what has been said

If either of my sons brought a guy home as their partner, I would be yes fine its like having another son, the more the merrier, and no PMT either - added bonus. It really doesn't matter at all, so long as they're happy and with the person they want to be with

[Tom]

Originally Posted by Phlip

There's no difference between gay and straight marriage and adopted kids and biological kids.

Love is love.

If there is no difference then why is it still a separate system? and as much as you can love an adopted child, i don't think anything can compare to the love of your own

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Tom

If there is no difference then why is it still a separate system? and as much as you can love an adopted child, i don't think anything can compare to the love of your own

I think parents who have adopted might disagree with that and lets face it unless you had a biological child and an adopted child, how could you know?

[cub]

I'll be pleased when being gay and enjoying a gay lifestyle is as much an issue as having brown or blonde hair. Or prefering brown or blonde hair.

One day there won't even be a discussion about this let alone seperate agendas.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Phlip

There's no difference between gay and straight marriage and adopted kids and biological kids.

Love is love.

Horseshit. Come on. Do you think gay men would still adopt in huge numbers given some scientifically implausible hypothetical universe where any two men could conceive their own child? No. They wouldn't.

Every gay couple would want a child of their own genes. Reproduction is what continues the species. Fortunately plenty of that happens as it is. More than enough, in fact.

I'm not saying you can't love an adopted child but to compare the two is a joke and most gay people I know say the exaxt same thing. Because they are ordinary, honest people not obsessed with broadcasting their newfound lifestyle to anyone who will listen whilst simultaneously crying 'homophobia' over every little thing.

A lot of young gay members of this forum let their overexcitement at being finally 'out' take charge of their emotions and subsequently turn debates like these into unrealistic, faux idealism ladden clusterfucks.

[cub]

I was adopted and my parents could not have love me more. Quite the reverse - I was loved more.

[Stu]

I'm not denying that. There's much more to the argument than how much a child can be loved. Two people creating one person of their own, all on their own who share the parents characteristics ... that's ... well ... life.

That child can be loved just as much as an adopted child and can be raised the same but at the end of the day there is still a massive difference. Difference[s]. All over the shop.

[Captain.Remy]

I'm the kind of guy who likes to live life to the fullest, I don't give myself boundaries, I do everything I want to make me happy so it makes me open-minded about a lot of things.

I like to have fun and I consider people as my piers, no matter who they are or what they believe in so if being gay makes my child happy, then good for him, I'm all for it. That's how my parents raised me, to do everything I want as long as I respect the people around me and by keeping my dignity safe and I will be doing exactly the same thing with my children.

And come on now, it's not like it's new or something, being gay is now (almost) accepted and it is present everywhere in today's society.

Bigots to the left.

[Zippy]

Back to the OP...

I wouldnt be disappointed but maybe a bit fearful of the prejudices and hassle they may face in life. Plus I think the issue of Grandchildren is very important. If its your only child then its kind of your only chance to have grandchildren so I can imagine it would be very disappointing to know that, biologically at least, it wasn't gonna happen.

But people adapt to whatever situation theyre faced with. I think parents just want to see their children happy at the end of the day.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Tom

If there is no difference then why is it still a separate system? and as much as you can love an adopted child, i don't think anything can compare to the love of your own

My son married a girl who had a 3 year old son and he became a stepfather before he became a father. He now has his own son, and he loves both his boys the same, as do I and the rest of the family.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by cub

I was adopted and my parents could not have love me more. Quite the reverse - I was loved more.

I totally agree - after all they actually CHOSE you, you weren't just randomly conceived. You were wanted and loved, which is more than can be said for some biological children whose parents had them by accident.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by angus58

My son married a girl who had a 3 year old son and he became a stepfather before he became a father. He now has his own son, and he loves both his boys the same, as do I and the rest of the family.

But thats someone he'll have grown to love- I can guarantee that he loved his own child before it was even born. Theres also that children that aren't yours have real parents so is the love fully mutual?

[Stu]

To suggest there is no difference is just jumping the shark and then some. And stop bringing it back to love. You can love your adopted child just the same as your biological child, but only one of them is a scientific wonder. A piece of you in a piece of someone else. A continuation of your own family line.

Of course some of this also drips into how you bring up and teach your child - it's not all biological, but there is clearly a difference.

If they were the exact same in every way, much, much more people would adopt. Even just to avoid the pain of childbirth.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Tom

But thats someone he'll have grown to love- I can guarantee that he loved his own child before it was even born. Theres also that children that aren't yours have real parents so is the love fully mutual?

My son is the only father his stepson has ever known or will know since his biological dad is dead. Of course the love is mutual - my step grandson worships the ground his stepdad walks on and vice versa. There's more to being a parent than simply bringing the eggs and sperm.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Stu

To suggest there is no difference is just jumping the shark and then some. And stop bringing it back to love. You can love your adopted child just the same as your biological child, but only one of them is a scientific wonder. A piece of you in a piece of someone else. A continuation of your own family line.

Of course some of this also drips into how you bring up and teach your child - it's not all biological, but there is clearly a difference.

If they were the exact same in every way, much, much more people would adopt. Even just to avoid the pain of childbirth.

I actually feel sorry for you if you feel that way. It may not work for you, but that doesn't make it wrong for other people.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by angus58

My son is the only father his stepson has ever known or will know since his biological dad is dead. Of course the love is mutual - my step grandson worships the ground his stepdad walks on and vice versa. There's more to being a parent than simply bringing the eggs and sperm.

I do understand that especially as I've always preferred my step dad over my real dad and he's treated me as such even though theres only a small age gap (17 years) but I do think that having your own child is better than someone elses, just because its yours. Adoption always comes second to conceiving because its part of your biological family and as already said, if it was identical then everyone would adopt because no woman would want to put themselves through the pain of child birth.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by angus58

I actually feel sorry for you if you feel that way. It may not work for you, but that doesn't make it wrong for other people.

I didn't say it doesn't work for me. And I didn't say it's wrong for other people to do it.

I feel sorry for your inept ability to make assumptions.

[Boothy]

Not sure really. I think I'd find it a bit weird. Not that I'm homophobic or anything, I just don't think I'd like the idea of my own son/daughter being gay.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Tom

I do understand that especially as I've always preferred my step dad over my real dad but I do think that having your own child is better than someone elses, just because its yours. Adoption always comes second to conceiving because its part of your biological family and as already said, if it was identical then everyone would adopt because no woman would want to put themselves through the pain of child birth.

Of course it's not identical, but it just doesn't hold the same importance for some as it does for others to have a biological link throughout the centuries. I never had any massive maternal yearnings, nor any huge desire to pass my genes down through the ages, I just loved my kids when they came along. I have always taken life as it comes, and have never limited how much I love or can be loved by anyone. Love has no boundaries or restrictions in my book - but I do understand where you are coming from since many people feel a primeval need to pass on their genes, to recognise traits, resemblances, characteristics, but I never have.

I love my grandson and step grandson for their own selves and personalities, not because they are perpetuating my biological bloodline. They are as much a product of the environment and the upbringing they are sharing as if they were truly full siblings with a common lineage. I cannot explain it any better than that.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by angus58

Of course it's not identical, but it just doesn't hold the same importance for some as it does for others to have a biological link throughout the centuries. I never had any massive maternal yearnings, nor any huge desire to pass my genes down through the ages, I just loved my kids when they came along. I have always taken life as it comes, and have never limited how much I love or can be loved by anyone. Love has no boundaries or restrictions in my book - but I do understand where you are coming from since many people feel a primeval need to pass on their genes, to recognise traits, resemblances, characteristics, but I never have.

I love my grandson and step grandson for their own selves and personalities, not because they are perpetuating my biological bloodline. They are as much a product of the environment and the upbringing they are sharing as if they were truly full siblings with a common lineage. I cannot explain it any better than that.

But when you take on someone elses child, theres the possibility of them only being in your life for a limited time, usually as long as a relationship lasts, whereas with your own child its unlimited. A similar principle could apply to adoption but to a much lesser extent

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Tom

But when you take on someone elses child, theres the possibility of them only being in your life for a limited time, usually as long as a relationship lasts, whereas with your own child its unlimited. A similar principle could apply to adoption but to a much lesser extent

Of course, but that could just as easily be said for biological children, where parents, (usually fathers) can become estranged from their children because of divorce etc. The fact that the child is no longer in your life, does not diminish the love felt for that child or the child's love for the absent parent. I would also query the statement "someone else's child" since if there is no "someone else" that would not apply. There are plenty of parents who do not feel the "unlimited" love/time you mention for their own biological children - the fact that someone has given birth to a child does not guarantee they will love that child at all, never mind forever, or that they will always be in that child's life.

[Tom4784]

I've got a very light trigger finger when it comes to infractions and I've found nothing homophobic in this topic, some people are a bit uncomfortable about it but that's not what I'd class as homophobia. Nobody's posted hate at all, not that I'm defending Patrick's ummm......'Logic'.

As for the nature vs nurture argument, I struggle to believe sexuality isn't genetic. If it was based on how a child is raised then why are some kids gay but others aren't if they're raised in the same household? I think, given how easy it would be to find a pattern for the nurture side of the argument, that the lack of a solid pattern is telling. It's all down to genetics I think, a factor no one can control, decide or influence.

[Stu]

Believe him. His actually the Kim Jong-Il of the moderating world.

[fruit_cake]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

As for the nature vs nurture argument, I struggle to believe sexuality isn't genetic. If it was based on how a child is raised then why are some kids gay but others aren't if they're raised in the same household? I think, given how easy it would be to find a pattern for the nurture side of the argument, that the lack of a solid pattern is telling. It's all down to genetics I think, a factor no one can control, decide or influence.

I read that there are two types of hand, Masculine and Feminine.. men tend have longer ring fingers than index fingers whereas women tend to have longer or equal index fingers than ring fingers



the one on the left is typical of a man, the one on the right of a woman..

apparently if you have the incorrect pattern it means you are far far more likely to be homosexual

[Stu]

My ring fingers are bigger than my index ones so I can confirm that I have the bitch hands. I'm bi though. But a bit girly in the brain. Movies make me cry, and I own a pair of leather pants which I enjoy wearing when mixing vodka with alcopop.