[Jessica.]

Originally Posted by arista

No thats the way you are brought up.


It is Legal.

It's nothing to do with how I was brought up, I form my own views and opinions.

[Jessica.]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

This is so true Arista. some may view it as murder as that is their belief.


Personal opinions and belief is not the same as what is legal in the UK and many other countries - so you are infact, correct. It is not murder.

It's not just a belief, I'm not religious or anything, it's a life, then it is a murder, then there is no life. Simple.

[Liberty4eva]

At this time I don't have a lot of time to write my opinion so I'll refer you to this video. I subscribe to this guy's opinion on abortion.

Youtube video

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Zippy

and the award for the most simplistic post of the week goes to....

Pyramid!!

actually it takes 9 months of incubation and nurturing to create a baby and Im pretty sure the man isnt part of that process.

he provides an essential ingredient, thats all.

I made it simplistic especially for you -seeing as you appear to have this vague idea that men don't have any responsibility for making babies.

I think you will find that a man is very much a part of the creation of a baby.

He providdes an essential ingredient, that's all.

ROFL. Do you have any idea how contradictory your words are!!!

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Jessica.

It's not just a belief, I'm not religious or anything, it's a life, then it is a murder, then there is no life. Simple.

The Law clearly disagrees with you.

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

ROFL. Do you have any idea how contradictory your words are!!!

No, please point them out(not that Im interested).

Or are you making your usual vague accusations?

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Zippy

No, please point them out(not that Im interested).

Or are you making your usual vague accusations?

I don't throw around accusations, I'm far too mature for that.

If you aren't interested, I see no need to point out the very obvious contradictory words in your earlier post. You aren't interested...remember.

[Niall]

Just one more thing I wanna say, I don't think life begins at conception. That idea is silly. After conception, what will become the child is little more than a fertilised cell. It can't think, feel, move or talk. Its just a cell. Nothing more nothing less imo. What I think though, is that a baby is alive when its heart starts to beat.

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

I don't throw around accusations, I'm far too mature for that.

yeah your Kate moss has a wrinkly ass thread is really mature

and no surprise you can't point out my contradictions

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Zippy

yeah your Kate moss has a wrinkly ass thread is really mature

and no surprise you can't point out my contradictions

She's a model - her body belies that fact - she's in the public eye and therefore open to scrutiny and comment.

__________________________________________________ _______

If you cannot see your own contradictory comment yourself, why on earth should I explain it to you - especially when you stated that you weren't interested - which was yet another contradictory comment of yours!

[Vicky.]

Keep on topic please

[Grimnir]

Murder is wrong
Once a baby has developed in the womb it should never be aborted
If the woman does not want the baby there are plenty of couples who want to adopt babies as they cannot have babies of their own

[Stephanie]

Originally Posted by Grimnir

Murder is wrong
Once a baby has developed in the womb it should never be aborted
If the woman does not want the baby there are plenty of couples who want to adopt babies as they cannot have babies of their own

you can't just expect the people who don't want their baby, to go through the pregnancy and birth though.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Grimnir

Murder is wrong
Once a baby has developed in the womb it should never be aborted
If the woman does not want the baby there are plenty of couples who want to adopt babies as they cannot have babies of their own

So what? Why should any woman have to go through 9 months of pregnancy which, in case you're not aware, is not always just plain sailing for some, and then the pain and trauma of childbirth (in itself a dangerous event for mother and baby), just to hand the baby over to some random stranger? And we're not talking about "once a baby has developed in the womb" abortions - because those would be what's termed "viable", but about abortions carried out in the earlier stages when it is still a fetus. It is just your own personal belief that you are expressing which is all well and good, but it doesn't give you, or anyone else, the right to compel a woman to carry a baby to full term.

I sadly had 4 miscarriages, all before 15 weeks, so I know full well what a fetus at that gestational age looks like and I don't intend to be graphic about it. It was easier for me to deal with the pain of the loss because the pregnancies were still in the early stages. Each time, I remember envying every pregnant woman I saw, but there is no way in the world that I would have wanted THEIR child.

I used to be very anti abortion when I was younger (having been brought up as a Roman Catholic), but life teaches you that you have to walk in someone else's shoes before you start judging them. I would certainly never have had an abortion myself under any circumstances, but that was MY choice, MY decision and no-one else's.

The fact is that I would only be concerned about women aborting after the 20week mark. There is no need to have such a late abortion since, by that time, the woman has had over 4 months to decide. Once the baby becomes "viable", an abortion shouldn't really be an option unless there is some life threatening reason for the mother.

[Grimnir]

Abortion laws vary greatly throughout the world.
One extreme is places such as the Vatican where it is basically no no never never kind of laws
UK and US have the opposite extreme. Can basically terminate a baby for any reason and at any point.

My opinion is abortion should be legal if the baby has not developed yet and it is first few weeks or so.
Once baby has developed at a certain point then abortion should be illegal apart from under special circumstances.
Those special circumstances should be only health risk and complications.

If doctor thinks that mother's health is at risk then he should determine whether the baby will survive without the mother. If baby would die then the doctor should abort the baby to save the life of the mother.
If pregnancy is at the stage where the baby could survive outside the womb, doctor should advise the mother of this and she makes the decision.
Save the life of her baby or abort the baby to save her own life.
Each woman would choose differently under these circumstances.
Some women would terminate, some would save their baby.
Health risk to mother is the only exception in my opinion.
Anything to do with economic reasons or baby disability is murder and no different than killing baby after birth.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Grimnir

Abortion laws vary greatly throughout the world.
One extreme is places such as the Vatican where it is basically no no never never kind of laws
UK and US have the opposite extreme. Can basically terminate a baby for any reason and at any point.

My opinion is abortion should be legal if the baby has not developed yet and it is first few weeks or so.
Once baby has developed at a certain point then abortion should be illegal apart from under special circumstances.
Those special circumstances should be only health risk and complications.

If doctor thinks that mother's health is at risk then he should determine whether the baby will survive without the mother. If baby would die then the doctor should abort the baby to save the life of the mother.
If pregnancy is at the stage where the baby could survive outside the womb, doctor should advise the mother of this and she makes the decision.
Save the life of her baby or abort the baby to save her own life.
Each woman would choose differently under these circumstances.
Some women would terminate, some would save their baby.
Health risk to mother is the only exception in my opinion.
Anything to do with economic reasons or baby disability is murder and no different than killing baby after birth.

I agree that once a baby is viable after around 24 weeks, abortion should only be undertaken if there is severe health risk for the mother. Disabilities etc would usually have been picked up by scans and examinations earlier in the pregnancy so there is no excuse to wait till the later stages. As regards economic reasons, well in this country at any rate some stupid women see having babies as a career move since ensures they don't have to go out to work, and it can be quite lucrative for benefits, and those women who don't want children for career reasons are usually intelligent enough to take precautions. I doubt most women would abort a baby for economic reasons.

As I said earlier, abortion should never be cynically used as a means of birth control. There are plenty of preventative methods available so there is really no need to get pregnant if you don't want to. But what of rape victims, or victims of incest; what of women who are in abusive relationships; what of women who have alcohol, drug or mental health issues etc etc, there is really no hard and fast rule that covers ever eventuality. Any woman considering abortion should always be offered counselling, but they should ultimately be the ones who make the decision, within the parameters of the law.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by angus58

Any woman considering abortion should always be offered counselling,

Unfortunately even this doesnt happen sometimes either :/

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Unfortunately even this doesnt happen sometimes either :/

It's such a life changing decision to make that it beggars belief that counselling isn't always available. Some women have no idea how devastating a decision it can be and how it can affect the rest of their lives.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Stu

You are dealing with a life here. I hold life as something sacred that clearly starts when Mr. Sperm meets Mr. Egg. That's where it starts and that's where it continues from. If you are basing your argument on things like 'well a baby and foetus are two different things' then you are looking at it from - in my opinion - a weird 'how many cells does it have? how intelligent is it?' standpoint. It's a life. Any arguments about how well the baby could be brought up etc are answered by adoption. Plenty of couples are crying out to take in and love a child.

I'm pro choice though. I'm not going to force my beliefs on others. That's how I would describe my views. Anti abortion, pro choice.

I agree with this pretty much. I could never have an abortion myself as I don't think I could live with myself afterwards.

[Twilight]

I'm pro choice, can't really say anything else.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by angus58

It's such a life changing decision to make that it beggars belief that counselling isn't always available. Some women have no idea how devastating a decision it can be and how it can affect the rest of their lives.

Indeed. But it is true in some cases. I know from experience :S

[Liberty4eva]

Ashamed to say we gotta be the only species where the females usually don't want to have children. Not only do they not desire children but they will go out of their way to murder their own when it is convenient to do so. That's why the population numbers in the west are in decline because women in society are raised and grow up to be weak, pathetic people.

Adoption? That's not an option for many because, whether they'll admit it or not, they fear they'll become emotionally attached to their baby and, as some have unashamedly commented here, they'll have to endure hours of pain to deliver. You'd rather kill your own than endure a few hours of pain. Can you hear yourselves?

And the "life doesn't begin at conception" theory is just a loophole they create so they can sleep at night and not feel like murderers. Whether or not there is a god, those who say life does not begin at conception will inevitably play god. And that's because life must begin at some point. There must be some point where it, for lack of a better word, graduates from a clump of cells and tissue with no rights to a human being with all rights that you and I have. If that moment is not at conception then perhaps it's the moment the baby is delivered? Perhaps it's the moment when the brain is fully developed? Perhaps it's the moment when it can recognize its mother's voice? Perhaps it's the moment the US Supreme Court ruled life begins which is when the baby could theoritically live outside of the womb? Perhaps it's, as someone commented here, 20 weeks after conception? Whatever it is, those of you who are arrogant enough to say "life doesn't begin at conception" have the responsibility to say when life truly does begin. Whatever that moment is YOU ARE PLAYING GOD. I, on the other hand, refuse to play god and will say life may begin at conception and, that being the case, this baby/fetus should be given the benefit of the doubt.

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by Liberty4eva

Ashamed to say we gotta be the only species where the females usually don't want to have children. Not only do they not desire children but they will go out of their way to murder their own when it is convenient to do so....

Im sure there are many cases where animals reject their offspring.

and your language throughout your whole post is so emotive and inflammatory it's hard to even bother having a discussion. If you take the view that aborting at any stage(which you seem to) then there's not really room for debate is there?

All civilised countries are pro-choice when it comes to abortion. That should tell you something about the morality of it. But yeah, you know better.

My definition of meaningful life is when it develops feelings and has a sense of self. I think at 24 weeks that is the case and like most on here would feel happier if that time limit was lowered.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Zippy

Im sure there are many cases where animals reject their offspring.

and your language throughout your whole post is so emotive and inflammatory it's hard to even bother having a discussion. If you take the view that aborting at any stage(which you seem to) then there's not really room for debate is there?

All civilised countries are pro-choice when it comes to abortion. That should tell you something about the morality of it. But yeah, you know better.

My definition of meaningful life is when it develops feelings and has a sense of self. I think at 24 weeks that is the case and like most on here would feel happier if that time limit was lowered.

abortion is still illegal in Ireland.

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

abortion is still illegal in Ireland.

religious hang ups probably

they all just hop on a ferry and come here to get it done