[arista]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/w...rance/1711143/


This was Repoted on Euronews
The French Catholics do not want to allow Gay Marriage,
Typical France

[the truth]

what exactly does it mean to allow gay marriage? are they saying churches who dont offer the service will be fined ?

[King Gizzard]

I don't think you should force churches into Gay marriage, even though I do believe it should be legalised

[Marsh.]

Good for them.

[the truth]

I dont think any world leader or church leader or news reader is clarifying what gay marriage means for churches? are churches beingforced to carry out gay marriages or being given the option?

[MTVN]

I'd imagine that generally they'd be given the option, bit complicated in this country though because we still don't have complete separation of Church and state

[the truth]

Originally Posted by MTVN

I'd imagine that generally they'd be given the option, bit complicated in this country though because we still don't have complete separation of Church and state

yes Id guess that too, but why are the leaders so useless at makingthis point clear? its the fact its so unclear that creates the unncessary tensions that lead to protests and ignorance.

[Nedusa]

If a group of people (Church) have a strong religious belief that marriage for them is only about a man and a woman then so be it. You cannot force them into changing that view by the use of legislation. Churches will never forsake their religious doctrines because a secular state tries to pass laws to make them do so.

If enough same sex couples feel that strongly about getting married in church I suggest they start their own church and get married at leisure.

The State needs to stop trying to interfere with the established doctrines of our main religious institutions. In this case the French people have correctly drawn a red line in the sand.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

If a group of people (Church) have a strong religious belief that marriage for them is only about a man and a woman then so be it. You cannot force them into changing that view by the use of legislation. Churches will never forsake their religious doctrines because a secular state tries to pass laws to make them do so.

If enough same sex couples feel that strongly about getting married in church I suggest they start their own church and get married at leisure.

The State needs to stop trying to interfere with the established doctrines of our main religious institutions. In this case the French people have correctly drawn a red line in the sand.

I 100% agree with you....This seems a non argument to me. Im not sure the prostestors on either side know what theyre marching for? the politicians have failed totally in america and in europe to actually explain this issue to the public? yes give churches the option to hold gay marriages but dont enforce it? isnt that the obvious common sense conclusion? some will do it, some wont, gay couples will have plenty of choice and those churches who opt out will have their own choices too. end of subject?

[Niamh.]

The Catholic Church discriminating against people is nothing new, women are not allowed to becomes priests, divorced people are not allowed to remarry in a church...... If the government hasn't stepped in to force them to do those things, I don't see why this should be any different.

[Roy Mars III]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

The Catholic Church discriminating against people is nothing new, women are not allowed to becomes priests, divorced people are not allowed to remarry in a church...... If the government hasn't stepped in to force them to do those things, I don't see why this should be any different.

they would be going against their main religious text, the Bible, if they did any of those things, so its not surprising

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Roy Mars III

they would be going against their main religious text, the Bible, if they did any of those things, so its not surprising

No, it's not. I think it's out of date and stupid but that's the way it is, not just the Catholic Church either. I think if the government are going to force churches to do stuff that's against their beliefs they may as well just go ahead and out law Religions altogether tbh

[Livia]

It's not just the Catholics... if they're going to force Christians to marry gay people, they have to force the Muslims, the Jews, the Hindus, the Sikhs etc. etc. etc. to marry them too. We're a multi-ethnic culture and you can't force one religious organisation to do something while you exempt another religious organisation.

I've said this before in another thread... I have no problem whatsoever with a gay couple marrying in a civil ceremony and having all the rights that heterosexual couples do. And if they are religious, have a blessing afterwards - like most divorced heterosexual couples do.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

It's not just the Catholics... if they're going to force Christians to marry gay people, they have to force the Muslims, the Jews, the Hindus, the Sikhs etc. etc. etc. to marry them too. We're a multi-ethnic culture and you can't force one religious organisation to do something while you exempt another religious organisation.

I've said this before in another thread... I have no problem whatsoever with a gay couple marrying in a civil ceremony and having all the rights that heterosexual couples do. And if they are religious, have a blessing afterwards - like most divorced heterosexual couples do.

Yes exactly Livia, that in itself is discrimination

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

No, it's not. I think it's out of date and stupid but that's the way it is, not just the Catholic Church either. I think if the government are going to force churches to do stuff that's against their beliefs they may as well just go ahead and out law Religions altogether tbh

you sound like youre discriminating now against their rights and showing them intolerance too? the balance to be drawn is simple. but politicians tend to deliberately create problems when there neednt be any. give churches the option if they want to offer marriages. end of.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by the truth

you sound like youre discriminating now against their rights and showing them intolerance too? the balance to be drawn is simple. but politicians tend to deliberately create problems when there neednt be any. give churches the option if they want to offer marriages. end of.

How am I? I said I didn't agree with their beliefs and think they're stupid but that they shouldn't be forced to change them, am I not allowed to think that some of the Churches beliefs are stupid and sexist?

[Jack_]

Absolutely pathetic. Misguided, bigoted scum.

Originally Posted by Livia

It's not just the Catholics... if they're going to force Christians to marry gay people, they have to force the Muslims, the Jews, the Hindus, the Sikhs etc. etc. etc. to marry them too.

...as indeed we should. No institution in society should be allowed to actively discriminate against any of its citizens. It's about time religious institutions were given the back seat instead of gay people, I'm fed up of its influence and control it still, unfortunately, continues to have on many of our lives, whether religious ourselves or not.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Absolutely pathetic. Misguided, bigoted scum.



...as indeed we should. No institution in society should be allowed to actively discriminate against any of its citizens. It's about time religious institutions were given the back seat instead of gay people, I'm fed up of its influence and control it still, unfortunately, continues to have on many of our lives, whether religious ourselves or not.

You are discriminating against people of faith in that case, saying your own views are more important than theirs.

I could not marry in a synagogue because the man I married was not a Jew. Did I take the the street with a placard? Did I feel discriminated against? No I didn't... because in Jewish law, that was the way it is and I understood the rules. If you're so anti-religion, why would you want to marry in a religious ceremony anyway.

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

The Catholic Church discriminating against people is nothing new, women are not allowed to becomes priests, divorced people are not allowed to remarry in a church...... If the government hasn't stepped in to force them to do those things, I don't see why this should be any different.

The Catholic Church is not discriminating against people per se, more they are trying to keep their religious doctrines intact and free from interference from the state. As all religious belief are just that... beliefs people who do not share those beliefs have the choice not to join that particular church. But to want to join a long established Church and then decide you do not agree with some of their beliefs and then try and use secular laws to force that particular Church to change those beliefs is simply unacceptable. Join a Church that shares those beliefs or start a new Church.

The question of whether those beliefs are discriminatory is a separate question and the outcome of that question should have no legal bearing on the main point of debate. I agree if enough members of that particular church felt their beliefs could be changed then fine but it should not have this type of change legally enforced on them.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

The Catholic Church is not discriminating against people per se, more they are trying to keep their religious doctrines intact and free from interference from the state. As all religious belief are just that... beliefs people who do not share those beliefs have the choice not to join that particular church. But to want to join a long established Church and then decide you do not agree with some of their beliefs and then try and use secular laws to force that particular Church to change those beliefs is simply unacceptable. Join a Church that shares those beliefs or start a new Church.

The question of whether those beliefs are discriminatory is a separate question and the outcome of that question should have no legal bearing on the main point of debate. I agree if enough members of that particular church felt their beliefs could be changed then fine but it should not have this type of change legally enforced on them.

Of course they are but that's what the bible says apparently

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Of course they are but that's what the bible says apparently

The Bible says I can have slaves, as long as they're not Jewish. I was thinking of Marc, Shaun, Dezzy and Inone. I want them all fanning me with the big feathery fans. It's in the Bible. They've gotta do it.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

The Bible says I can have slaves, as long as they're not Jewish. I was thinking of Marc, Shaun, Dezzy and Inone. I want them all fanning me with the big feathery fans. It's in the Bible. They've gotta do it.

Good choices there, I like your style

[Niall]

I have mixed views on this.

Whilst religions shouldn't really be tampered with by the state, I think the whole anti-gay marriage sentiment within religions kind of breeds a bad attitude toward it in general.

A lot of Christians that I know nowadays dissent from the church position that gay marriage is wrong anyway. I think it's high time that all the Christian denominations re-evaluate their beliefs in gay marriage based on the opinion of their congregations, and not that of an elite group of people who control such organisations, but also the archaic (and imo, misinterpereted) texts that form the basis of their anti-gay marriage argument.

I would say the same about other religions, but I'm not too clued up on their respective contexts in relation to this argument.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

How am I? I said I didn't agree with their beliefs and think they're stupid but that they shouldn't be forced to change them, am I not allowed to think that some of the Churches beliefs are stupid and sexist?

outlawing religions altogether? how tolerant is that?

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Livia

The Bible says I can have slaves, as long as they're not Jewish. I was thinking of Marc, Shaun, Dezzy and Inone. I want them all fanning me with the big feathery fans. It's in the Bible. They've gotta do it.

dont you follow Judaism?