[Redway]

Or do you think it can be disproportionate, e.g. someone with a severe disability who may well do little more than exist vs a doctor who saves plenty of lives?

[Kyle]

I like to consider everyone equal but in a society it just doesn't work. Somebody has to run the country and are thus are going to be more 'important' than the lay man.

[Niamh.]

Obviously a Doctor is going to be more beneficial to society than someone who's dependent on others ( a doctor would trump most non disabled people in "normal" jobs though) but that doesn't mean that the Doctor is better than that person or more deserving of anything

[Kizzy]

The actions of some may bring more social or economic benefit than others, however when you question that as a quintessential truth it becomes rather an unsavoury concept.

[lostalex]

no. some people are better than others.

some people are abusive assholes.

and i mean real abusive assholes, not just people who are annoying, i mean seriously abusive assholes who are evil and who hurt other people for fun.

[Z]

I think your value as a person stems from what you give back to the world. That could be through charity, work, kindness, love, respect... call that +1... some people aren't physically capable of doing anything, call that 0... some people give back negativity, that's -1... so no, I don't think people are equally valuable, not inherently. Most people have the choice to do good with their lives and for whatever combination of reasons, they choose a path in life that either helps others for the most part or hurts others for the most part...

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by Zee

I think your value as a person stems from what you give back to the world. That could be through charity, work, kindness, love, respect... call that +1... some people aren't physically capable of doing anything, call that 0... some people give back negativity, that's -1... so no, I don't think people are equally valuable, not inherently. Most people have the choice to do good with their lives and for whatever combination of reasons, they choose a path in life that either helps others for the most part or hurts others for the most part...

It's a bit harsh though to penalise people who can't do anything for physical disability's. It's like a double whammy. I'm sorry Jimmy your going to be in a wheelchair for life, oh and btw your not really valuable to us anymore so y'know you can mull that over whilst you sit at home doing nothing.

[Kizzy]

Yep, and it's a generalisation that we all have the potential to be these wonderful exemplary and beneficial members of society. Some just don't possess the skills, a points system is a simplistic and clinical measure of how 'worthwhile' we are.

[Verbal]

Imagine a world where disabled people are actually Doctors...just incase you don't get my sarcasm, there are disabled Doctors in the world....

One of the greatest minds in history is severely disabled and has to rely on other people for absolutely every aspect of his care. Edit: Professor Stephen Hawkings.

The average person with a disability does far far more than a regular everyday person who is perfectly healthy. I could list you scores of healthy people who are nothing more than a drain on society. I can't name you one disabled person who is.

Please, don't single disabled people out as being the weaker, disposable aspect of society. Because its simply not true.

[x-evenstar-x]

Originally Posted by Verbal

Imagine a world where disabled people are actually Doctors...just incase you don't get my sarcasm, there are disabled Doctors in the world....

One of the greatest minds in history is severely disabled and has to rely on other people for absolutely every aspect of his care. Edit: Professor Stephen Hawkings.

The average person with a disability does far far more than a regular everyday person who is perfectly healthy. I could list you scores of healthy people who are nothing more than a drain on society. I can't name you one disabled person who is.

Please, don't single disabled people out as being the weaker, disposable aspect of society. Because its simply not true.

Well said verbal, I couldn't agree more!

[Kizzy]

Great post verbal thankyou, I find the 'second class citizen' ideology abhorrent too.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Verbal

Imagine a world where disabled people are actually Doctors...just incase you don't get my sarcasm, there are disabled Doctors in the world....

One of the greatest minds in history is severely disabled and has to rely on other people for absolutely every aspect of his care. Edit: Professor Stephen Hawkings.

The average person with a disability does far far more than a regular everyday person who is perfectly healthy. I could list you scores of healthy people who are nothing more than a drain on society. I can't name you one disabled person who is.

Please, don't single disabled people out as being the weaker, disposable aspect of society. Because its simply not true.

To be fair to the OP the example he gave was "someone with a severe disability who may well do little more than exist" he didn't just say disabled people in general

[Verbal]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

To be fair to the OP the example he gave was "someone with a severe disability who may well do little more than exist" he didn't just say disabled people in general

Using disabled people in such an argument as this, smacks of ignorance, prejudice and the kind of thing a Daily Mail reading Tory would say, they are an easy target. They have no place being named in this discussion. Before my post 3 different posts singled them out.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Verbal

Using disabled people in such an argument as this, smacks of ignorance, prejudice and the kind of thing a Daily Mail reading Tory would say, they are an easy target. They have no place being named in this discussion. Before my post 3 different posts singled them out.

They were using the example the OP gave

[Verbal]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

They were using the example the OP gave

Yes, which was unfairly singling people out. Why am I defending myself? I made a genuine point, i'll be accused of trolling next.

If the OP had said:

Do you think all people are equally valuable?
Or do you think it can be disproportionate, e.g. someone who is a Muslim on the dole, who may well do little more than exist, vs a doctor who saves plenty of lives?

The topic would have been removed before it even started. Yet somehow disabled people are seen as a legitimate target.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Verbal

Yes, which was unfairly singling people out. Why am I defending myself? I made a genuine point, i'll be accused of trolling next.

If the OP had said:

Do you think all people are equally valuable?
Or do you think it can be disproportionate, e.g. someone who is a Muslim on the dole, who may well do little more than exist, vs a doctor who saves plenty of lives?

The topic would have been removed before it even started. Yet somehow disabled people are seen as a legitimate target.

No need to jump the gun Verbal, we can discuss it without getting defensive. I think the example the OP gave was basically trying to give two extremes, one person who is dependent on other people to live and one person who's saves peoples lives everyday. He wasn't lumping all disabled people into one and he wasn't lumping all non disabled people into one either

Typical Niamh, always slagging the disabled off.

[Verbal]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

No need to jump the gun Verbal, we can discuss it without getting defensive. I think the example the OP gave was basically trying to give two extremes, one person who is dependent on other people to live and one person who's saves peoples lives everyday. He wasn't lumping all disabled people into one and he wasn't lumping all non disabled people into one either

Thats fine, I was just making my point to not stereotype people. Thats all I wanted to achieve.

[Kizzy]

Verbal has a very valid point, I life is a life, and scales like this should not exist.
It is a quite unfair hypothetical imo, mothers and families of those who are severely disabled i'm sure would be upset at the view their loved one was seen as less than another due to their condition.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Verbal

Thats fine, I was just making my point to not stereotype people. Thats all I wanted to achieve.

Which you are perfectly entitled to do

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Verbal has a very valid point, I life is a life, and scales like this should not exist.
It is a quite unfair hypothetical imo, mothers and families of those who are severely disabled i'm sure would be upset at the view their loved one was seen as less than another due to their condition.

really? you don't think scales should exist?

so you think that someone who abuses disabled people is just as valuable a life as someone who helps and cares for disabled people?

sorry but i disagree, i think the kind person is a more valuable life.

[GiRTh]

One of the brightest people I ever met had no arms and legs. He knew something about literally everything. He had an amazing mind.

On topic, many able bodies people I know are contributing absolutely nothing to society other than to irritate others. These people deserve nothing.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

To be fair to the OP the example he gave was "someone with a severe disability who may well do little more than exist" he didn't just say disabled people in general

Why do we have to be fair to the OP?..
He suggested that there should be a definition between able bodied and disabled people...
Where is this demarcation between the two, when do you decide someone is not as economically viable?
A little more information would help as this is a little too black and white at the minute.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by lostalex

really? you don't think scales should exist?

so you think that someone who abuses disabled people is just as valuable a life as someone who helps and cares for disabled people?

sorry but i disagree, i think the kind person is a more valuable life.

You just completely misinterpretated what I said.

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Why do we have to be fair to the OP?..
He suggested that there should be a definition between able bodied and disabled people...
Where is this demarcation between the two, when do you decide someone is not as economically viable?
A little more information would help as this is a little too black and white at the minute.

He was using an example. I dont think he meant us to take his words literally.