[montblanc]

Originally Posted by Hayden

Is this shade

i saw that rn and i had to check the forum to see if anyone posted about it

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Macie Lightfoot

I mean, I think there's a huge difference in attitudes between "man, I really wish I won. I'm a huge fan of BBUK so it would have been nice" and "Deborah and I know why we didn't win we were screwed from the get-go for reasons." It's just not a good look when you're still making excuses for why you lost months later instead of just realizing that Isabelle played a better game. Whether or not it's intentional, it's almost like he's trying to undermine her win and imply that she only won because she's white.

Like I said, I don't agree with his reasoning at all, but totally understand why someone in his position would feel disappointed, bitter, even resentful and would start trying to rationalise (or irrationalise) the reasons why they didn't win. I think the large majority of people on here would be the same if they'd just lost out on £100k, and that's why I'm not understanding all the 'omg he's so bitter!' posts...that should go without saying, especially if the person who beat you is someone you now dislike.

[Macie Lightfoot]

I would maybe understand that initially, but the show ended at the end of the July. It's now November. If he really wanted to figure out why he lost and why she won rather than just making excuses, he could've figured that out by now. The fact that he's still making snipes and jabs through tweets and forum posts is a bit pathetic if I'm being honest, and it's reflecting more poorly on him than on anyone else.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Macie Lightfoot

I would maybe understand that initially, but the show ended at the end of the July. It's now November. If he really wanted to figure out why he lost and why she won rather than just making excuses, he could've figured that out by now. The fact that he's still making snipes and jabs through tweets and forum posts is a bit pathetic if I'm being honest, and it's reflecting more poorly on him than on anyone else.

I don't think losing your favourite show (or the money) is something one would ever really get over. Again, I agree re. the digs, but then what we all have to understand is his perspective will always be different to ours because he lived it 24/7. He will always be more privy to what happened in the house than the viewers will, and so that's more likely to skew his perception as to who he'd think would be a deserving winner. Factor in his now (seeming) disinterest in Isabelle and I totally understand the frustration.

I don't think he's watched the show back but if he did and said 'okay, I get why Issy won with the edit she got but they didn't show her doing this, and they omitted Deborah doing x and this and y and z' would that really be any better? His perception is always going to be different to ours, and it would be his word against people who didn't live through it. I can imagine it would be very difficult to put yourself in the position of a viewer if you'd experienced it yourself, you can't separate the two.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Macie Lightfoot

I mean, I think there's a huge difference in attitudes between "man, I really wish I won. I'm a huge fan of BBUK so it would have been nice" and "Deborah and I know why we didn't win we were screwed from the get-go for reasons." It's just not a good look when you're still making excuses for why you lost months later instead of just realizing that Isabelle played a better game. Whether or not it's intentional, it's almost like he's trying to undermine her win and imply that she only won because she's white.

I don't really see how this is different to the many many posters who claim that people won't win because they aren't white. Every year we get it. Raph (from memory) has spoke about this before.

I kind of feel like if it had been anyone but Isabelle winning, the usual 'its just because they are white!!!' excuses would be used here. Its just as Isabelle was so popular with the forum that this 'curse' thing is being ridiculed now Its been said for years and year, and everytime theres a winner that some posters dislike...its used.

[Greg!]

Originally Posted by Jordan.

Anyway I just love that Issy is paying all their indirects DUST

Loool same

[LukeB]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I don't really see how this is different to the many many posters who claim that people won't win because they aren't white. Every year we get it. Raph (from memory) has spoke about this before.

I kind of feel like if it had been anyone but Isabelle winning, the usual 'its just because they are white!!!' excuses would be used here. Its just as Isabelle was so popular with the forum that this 'curse' thing is being ridiculed now Its been said for years and year, and everytime theres a winner that some posters dislike...its used.

This member does have a personal issue with raph btw

But exactly raph isn’t the only one to do it and it wasn’t hardly an issue but why is it an issue now :s

[Marsh.]

Is Raph still calling himself a woman of colour?

[Macie Lightfoot]

Originally Posted by LukeB

This member does have a personal issue with raph btw

But exactly raph isn’t the only one to do it and it wasn’t hardly an issue but why is it an issue now :s

If you want to dismiss my criticisms bc "well of course Macie feels that way, he doesn't like Raph" then just read most of the other posts in this thread bc it's the same sentiment.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I don't really see how this is different to the many many posters who claim that people won't win because they aren't white. Every year we get it. Raph (from memory) has spoke about this before.

I kind of feel like if it had been anyone but Isabelle winning, the usual 'its just because they are white!!!' excuses would be used here. Its just as Isabelle was so popular with the forum that this 'curse' thing is being ridiculed now Its been said for years and year, and everytime theres a winner that some posters dislike...its used.

This is a fair point actually. It seems a bit convenient that such a prolific argument is mocked when the forum's fave wins, but then TiBB has never been known for its consistency.

The truth is that BBUK winners generally win because they're bland and inoffensive, there's not much more to it. Isabelle was just lucky she was easily the best of a lacklustre bunch.

[LukeB]

Originally Posted by Macie Lightfoot

If you want to dismiss my criticisms bc "well of course Macie feels that way, he doesn't like Raph" then just read most of the other posts in this thread bc it's the same sentiment.

I’m only saying the truth and vicky’s point proves it wasn’t an issue before when other people say it but raph said it’s an issue. There’s even a thread about this stuff and most people agreed.

[Jordan.]

Pretty sure no is disputing his claim that people of colour are at a disadvantage in BB, it's the fact he regards himself in that category when he could pass for completely white.

[Macie Lightfoot]

Originally Posted by LukeB

I’m only saying the truth and vicky’s point proves it wasn’t an issue before when other people say it but raph said it’s an issue. There’s even a thread about this stuff and most people agreed.

With regards to Vicky's point, I think it's absolutely possible to acknowledge that while people of color tend to be at a disadvantage on BBUK, not every person of color loses because they are black or Asian or whatever else. Again, Isabelle winning had everything to do with Isabelle and The Game that she played, possibly without even being aware of it. Raph got outplayed, not out-whited.

You can call it the truth (TM), but your point about me disliking Raph prior to the show can just as well be applied to you having your head up his ass before he went onto the show. It works both ways hun...x

[LukeB]

Originally Posted by Jack_

This is a fair point actually. It seems a bit convenient that such a prolific argument is mocked when the forum's fave wins, but then TiBB has never been known for its consistency.

The truth is that BBUK winners generally win because they're bland and inoffensive, there's not much more to it. Isabelle was just lucky she was easily the best of a lacklustre bunch.

And from Raph’s tweet he wasn’t talking about himself and only himself he was also talking about Deborah because a black female has never got past 3rd place or won big brother in the uk or internationally but i agree with what you said.

[Ant.]

Issy is a big brother legend

[Marsh.]

Countless boring blokes have floated to the end. How was Raph at a disadvantage?

[Amy Jade]

I wish I had never supported Raph when I see stuff like this, comes across as really sly and pathetic.

No wonder she beat him by such a landslide. He's come off as quite bitter that she absoloutely destroyed him in the final vote ever since he left the house.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by LukeB

And from Raph’s tweet he wasn’t talking about himself and only himself he was also talking about Deborah because a black female has never got past 3rd place or won big brother in the uk or internationally but i agree with what you said.

Because she's black and female or because they generally pick black females with a certain personality type?

[LukeB]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Because she's black and female or because they generally pick black females with a certain personality type?

well the stats are there and that was his point which is said A LOT on tibb by many others aswell (have no issue with that) but it shouldn't be a issue now when there wasn't one before

[LukeB]

it seems Chanelle as more of an issue with Isabelle more than Raph does. Something obviously happened.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by LukeB

well the stats are there and that was his point which is said A LOT on tibb by many others aswell (have no issue with that) but it shouldn't be a issue now when there wasn't one before

Yeah, but the stats aren't very informative.

I can name countless types of people that have never won or made the final, but BB (especially in the last 6 years) is very narrow in its choice of housemate so you're definitely going to see patterns in the types of people that prove popular and the ones that don't.

Is there irrefutable evidence that the viewers will not allow black women to win? No, not really.

You put 9 out of 10 white people in a house with a black person, and how likely is it the black person will win? An even slimmer chance when 50% of them are floaters.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I don't really see how this is different to the many many posters who claim that people won't win because they aren't white. Every year we get it.

The difference here being Raph thinks of himself highly enough to arrogantly claim to be the real winner, who was robbed of the title due to prejudice.

Rather than Isabelle simply being a more popular person.

Raph isn't in the best position to be making that kind of claim. He's biased as the person "robbed" of the winning title.

[caprimint]

Lotes taught Raph well

[Amy Jade]

I'm more bothered by his obvious shade towards Issy yet he's so false about it, Niamh and I noticed when he came back his opinions of her were vague and when asked he pretended all was good, fine keep whatever to yourself if you want but it opens him up to being called a bitter loser to randomly start being off about her.

Also if he's the super fan he insists he is why does he forget Brian Bello won? any curse of a poc winning ended there...should more black people have woen? Yes. Deana and Makosi off tge top of my head but Raph simply wasn't a deserving winner. The public agreed and he got obliterated in the final.

[Amy Jade]

As much as I love Chanelle too if she's pressed Issy won she should look at her actions in the last week - she caused her own eviction, the last week of her was rough being a fan.