[Withano]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

You would.

Why wouldnt you(?) anyone(?) not want a game which visually explains the precautions a person could take to stop a child from dying at the hands of their abusive parent to exist. Literally please give one reason or shut up.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Christmas treeza

So you can only comment on things you have extensive experience of?

I will be looking forward to you deleting 100s of comments specifically applicable to women then..
What an unjustified, aggressive and unpleasant response.

She is entitled to an opinion on this topic, as am I ... I am shocked at the voracity of your reaction and more than a little concerned if I'm honest.

I didn't say she needs to have extensive experience of it. I said she doesn't have ANY experience of it.

I also said she's entitled to her opinion. I'm only pointing out that her opinion is ignorant, archaic, uninformed, reactionary nonsense. In my opinion, of course.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Withano

Why wouldnt you(?) anyone(?) not want a game which visually explains the precautions a person could take to stop a child from dying at the hands of their abusive parent to exist. Literally please give one reason or shut up.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

I would never pat you on the head no offence

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Toy Santa

The rule of thumb is "if it didn't exist when I was a young'un, it is strange and corrupting our youth!"

See... 70 years ago, the older generations DID believe this sort of rabid, reactionary nonsense about cinema. 50 years ago, they believed it about television. Today, it's video games and / or sometimes "The Internet" that is the "terrible demon amongst us". I wasn't being flippant when I said this older generation will die off soon enough and people will forget that gaming was ever demonized as being any different to television or movies... that is exactly what will happen.

Yeah I think there's a lot of truth in that. Even saying that though video game violence isn't even that much of a new thing anyway (maybe new in the sense that much older people might not be too aware of it, but not so new that we can't tell whether or not there is an impact). I was playing games as a kid on the N64 where I'd shoot and stab people and I'm not a violent person in the slightest. And however more realistic games are these days to say 20 years ago, they're still not as realistic as TV and film.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

It's not just commenting on what's in the games though, it's commenting on the effect the games have on people playing them, isn't it? If you haven't played them how can you know what effect they have?
And if the issue isn't that it might have an effect on people and just that it's distasteful, then could the same not be said about a lot of films and TV shows and that they also shouldn't show topics like child abuse or any kind of violence at all in the name of entertainment?
Does entertainment have to be PG? Can it not provoke thought about issues and contain adult themes? And why is it one rule for one form of entertainment and another for something else?

It is yes, and I would feel exactly the same way about films that have this type of content.

My feeling is what mindset calls watching 'playing' something like this 'entertainment'? You have touched upon you it repulses me there, the sight sound and overall control of what happens to a virtual child is 'enjoyable' it's entertaining' you might think I'm oversensitive... think that this appeals to the undersensitive.. it's my opinion, there's no way I'll apologise for my reactions.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Santa

I didn't say she needs to have extensive experience of it. I said she doesn't have ANY experience of it.

I also said she's entitled to her opinion. I'm only pointing out that her opinion is ignorant, archaic, uninformed, reactionary nonsense. In my opinion, of course.

You're presuming she doesn't from a place of prejudice and ignorance, as your presumptions are based on the fact she's old... and that's it :/

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

It's not just commenting on what's in the games though, it's commenting on the effect the games have on people playing them, isn't it? If you haven't played them how can you know what effect they have?
And if the issue isn't that it might have an effect on people and just that it's distasteful, then could the same not be said about a lot of films and TV shows and that they also shouldn't show topics like child abuse or any kind of violence at all in the name of entertainment?
Does entertainment have to be PG? Can it not provoke thought about issues and contain adult themes? And why is it one rule for one form of entertainment and another for something else?.

But the abuser is being portrayed as a villain, who will inevitably lose, so I don't really see the argument there? Like nobodys gonna play that game and be like "woah, Todd seemed to have a right laugh, I wish I was more like him". After spending hours of gameplay destroying and defeating him.

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Christmas treeza

It is yes, and I would feel exactly the same way about films that have this type of content.

My feeling is what mindset calls watching 'playing' something like this 'entertainment'? You have touched upon you it repulses me there, the sight sound and overall control of what happens to a virtual child is 'enjoyable' it's entertaining' you might think I'm oversensitive... think that this appeals to the undersensitive.. it's my opinion, there's no way I'll apologise for my reactions.

I suppose it's just general escapism into a story. Different games have different purposes, as do different film and tv genres, but this one seems to be about a broader sense of story and how small decisions can have a big impact, and so serious scenarios were used. There's lots of different scenarios within the game (I think from what I've heard which is only a little), it's not all focused on this particular example of child abuse, and basically in each scenario you make choices to try and achieve the best outcome for the characters involved and that's what it's really about. It's not about child abuse and it doesn't seem to be glorifying child abuse. It's using it as a plot device yes, and fair enough if that's distasteful to some, but if we're talking about the mindset of the people playing it, it's not geared around wanting to see or 'play' with child abuse at all, it's merely a plot point and the actual motives in playing the game are something else entirely.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Christmas treeza

You're presuming she doesn't from a place of prejudice and ignorance, as your presumptions are based on the fact she's old... and that's it :/

No, my presumption is based on the fact that she's describing the situation in an inaccurate manner, as are you, because like her, you clearly haven't bothered to look into this actual game / scene at all before passing comment, and are doing so purely based on "word of mouth" about it, and your inaccurate preconceptions of gaming in general.

Originally Posted by Christmas treeza

It is yes, and I would feel exactly the same way about films that have this type of content.

My feeling is what mindset calls watching 'playing' something like this 'entertainment'? You have touched upon you it repulses me there, the sight sound and overall control of what happens to a virtual child is 'enjoyable' it's entertaining' you might think I'm oversensitive... think that this appeals to the undersensitive.. it's my opinion, there's no way I'll apologise for my reactions.

You, like those others who are so horrified, seem to be making the assumption that the viewer is in control of the abuser or the child, which is not the case... it's actually a decision-making interactive storyline where you are attempting to prevent the child from being harmed.

The talk of "games" and "playing" is, in the context of modern gaming, purely semantics and I do get why it sounds odd to those who don't engage in this activity. For the mostpart it's a throwback, in my opinion, and paints the activity - unfairly - as being more frivolous than, say, being a fan of cinema.

IF you truly feel like it's a subject that shouldn't be addressed by ANY medium then that's a different debate entirely, I suppose, but I think that's a bit of misdirection and not entirely true. After all - I haven't seen you, or Ms Rantzen, beating the war drums about Coronation Street or EastEnders - both of which have featured MULTIPLE child abuse storylines, and even more spousal abuse storylines - all as prime time pre-watershed family viewing. And usually with absolutely NO attempt to examine the situations morally or psychologically... pure, cheap entertainment. Where's the hand-wringing over that? There is none. But there is here, "because games", and because ignorance.

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Withano

But the abuser is being portrayed as a villain, who will inevitably lose, so I don't really see the argument there? Like nobodys gonna play that game and be like "woah, Todd seemed to have a right laugh, I wish I was more like him". After spending hours of gameplay destroying and defeating him.

(are you still quoting the wrong post I'm confused)

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

(are you still quoting the wrong post I'm confused)

Idk i think i read it wrong anyway lol

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Santa

No, my presumption is based on the fact that she's describing the situation in an inaccurate manner, as are you, because like her, you clearly haven't bothered to look into this actual game / scene at all before passing comment, and are doing so purely based on "word of mouth" about it, and your inaccurate preconceptions of gaming in general.



You, like those others who are so horrified, seem to be making the assumption that the viewer is in control of the abuser or the child, which is not the case... it's actually a decision-making interactive storyline where you are attempting to prevent the child from being harmed.

The talk of "games" and "playing" is, in the context of modern gaming, purely semantics and I do get why it sounds odd to those who don't engage in this activity. For the mostpart it's a throwback, in my opinion, and paints the activity - unfairly - as being more frivolous than, say, being a fan of cinema.

IF you truly feel like it's a subject that shouldn't be addressed by ANY medium then that's a different debate entirely, I suppose, but I think that's a bit of misdirection and not entirely true. After all - I haven't seen you, or Ms Rantzen, beating the war drums about Coronation Street or EastEnders - both of which have featured MULTIPLE child abuse storylines, and even more spousal abuse storylines - all as prime time pre-watershed family viewing. And usually with absolutely NO attempt to examine the situations morally or psychologically... pure, cheap entertainment. Where's the hand-wringing over that? There is none. But there is here, "because games", and because ignorance.

You are coming across as very rude and arrogant here TS, but I'll soldier on if I may.

When did I say this? You are again making presumptions... My feelings are ; why did sony use this trailer? who does it appeal to and why?
Are people buying the game as 'escapism... if so why do you need to escape to a format where fathers kill their children?
Is this the 'last taboo'... in an increasingly unshockable world is this specifically designed to push those boundaries?

I personally don't keep up with soap plotlines,but then you aren't paying £46 to watch ken barlow twat some kid about nor does he own an android he keeps abusing and reprogramming.

You could say that the issues in corrers are real life situations that are sensitively handled such as the recent grooming storylineI read about recently... Are you really aligning this virtual reality fantasy to anything that could be taken as a real life scenario? Real life abused children don't have android maidservants to help them...sorry to burst your bubble.

You are playing it, it's a game... it's an interactive story, virtual realityesque game what else are you doing? You aren't participating in it, it isn't a sport.

[smudgie]

Am I the only old beggar that doesn't have a problem with it.
If this game has been passed by the censors I can't see a problem.
If it has an age limit on it then it's up to the parents to prevent the kids from watching/playing it.
If as has been stated on this thread that you are given options on how to change the outcome then bring it on.
Adverts on child abuse have been around for years, it's not something to be swept under the carpet.
This from someone who was a very violently abused child who had no idea what to do about it at the time.

[user104658]

To be fair I do question their use of that specific scene in the public trailer. It probably was a marketing decision made for sensationalist reasons but, there, it's important to remember that the creative minds behind creating the game and it's content are not the ones who are advertising it.

If they had kept this scene out of the trailer, then only people who are actually interested in the game would have seen it, and we wouldn't have to put up with Esther's crowing.

[bots]

It is a bit sad when in order to try and give a story impact that they have to resort to using Esther. What that highlights is that they are talking out their arses

[Northern Monkey]

Anyone would think this didn’t happen in 2009 -

Youtube video

There’s been violence in video games for years

[Beso]

No need for this in gaming.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

Anyone would think this didn’t happen in 2009 -

Youtube video

There’s been violence in video games for years

See, I did actually find the MW2 sequence a bit much, with the major difference being that you are the aggressor in that situation (I know they tried to cover it up with some BS about how you didn't have to shoot and could just be passive... but the clear intention is that you participate). I still wouldn't be screeching "Ban Dis Filf" but I can understand why there are some issues with it. It's also miles from GTA "cartoony" violence.

Originally Posted by parmnion

No need for this in gaming.

Again I can understand if some people think there's no place for it in creative media full stop (so no need for it in movies or on TV either). I don't particularly AGREE that creative media shouldn't feature uncomfortable adult themes, I'd strongly argue against the world going that way - but it is still a valid and logical standpoint. However, saying "in gaming" specifically whilst believing that it's fine in other forms of media such as in movies or on television, or even in written fiction, just demonstrates a misunderstanding of how gaming has evolved over the last 20 or so years.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Christmas treeza

'Modern' video games are about the normalisation of violence and/ or abuse, mocking those who highlight this as a issue reiterates my point.

Can you give examples of games where abuse is normalised? I'd be very interested to here what you have to say since you seem to know a lot about video games.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Toy Santa

See, I did actually find the MW2 sequence a bit much, with the major difference being that you are the aggressor in that situation (I know they tried to cover it up with some BS about how you didn't have to shoot and could just be passive... but the clear intention is that you participate). I still wouldn't be screeching "Ban Dis Filf" but I can understand why there are some issues with it. It's also miles from GTA "cartoony" violence.



Again I can understand if some people think there's no place for it in creative media full stop (so no need for it in movies or on TV either). I don't particularly AGREE that creative media shouldn't feature uncomfortable adult themes, I'd strongly argue against the world going that way - but it is still a valid and logical standpoint. However, saying "in gaming" specifically whilst believing that it's fine in other forms of media such as in movies or on television, or even in written fiction, just demonstrates a misunderstanding of how gaming has evolved over the last 20 or so years.

Unless you are a simpleton who gets erect over vg characters then i reitterate, that there is no place for this in video gaming.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Can you give examples of games where abuse is normalised? I'd be very interested to here what you have to say since you seem to know a lot about video games.

Farcry and grand theft auto.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Can you give examples of games where abuse is normalised? I'd be very interested to here what you have to say since you seem to know a lot about video games.

None yet, this seems to be the ground breaker... as I said it is the trailer the USP for the game isn't it?

And as I said earlier there are many topics I don't have a lot of knowledge about insofar as direct experience of, and I'm sure you don't have experience in the issues I have experience in, that doesn't mean I would ever deny your right to have an opinion .... that would be repressive.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by santasingsadingaling

Farcry and grand theft auto.

There is no form of domestic abuse in any of the Farcry games, nor is there ever violence against children in the GTA games, and also, ANYTHING is the GTA games is quite clearly intended as parody.

I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that there are depictions of abuse in either of those titles.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Santa

There is no form of domestic abuse in any of the Farcry games, nor is there ever violence against children in the GTA games, and also, ANYTHING is the GTA games is quite clearly intended as parody.

I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that there are depictions of abuse in either of those titles.

Parody as in comedy, so you can comically play to attack and kill people? Games are modded to be able to rape characters, like I said how far can games go before they become simply abusive voyeuristic titillation?

Her avatar was asked to strip off her clothes at gunpoint and was then shot by a male character who told her he wanted to rape her.
She couldn’t see what he was doing (the screen goes black after a character dies), but she could hear him assaulting her character.
Correa wrote: “On the surface, I feel that it looks shallow. I was told I was going to get raped by a person I’ve never met, probably somewhere I’ve never been. I will more than likely never come into contact with that person in game again. I was a pixelated person in a computer generated world.
“But DayZ scared me. Its players have the capability to hurt other players in real time. In DayZ, you can make characters suffer. You can kidnap. You can torture. You can make it a long death. You can make it an even longer awful existence.”
The GTA games have previously come under fire for their violent sex scenes that have been accused of “deliberately degrading women.” Rockstar Games, the makers behind GTA V, have not yet responded to a request for comment.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/wom...ing-women.html