[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Tony Montana

Seems bizarre that her Husband would force her to do something like that

Indeed. what on earth would it gain her husband..

Just another weird thing in the case tbh.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I reckon if MJ had come out himself and admitted it you'd probably say he was coerced or something Kaz

I just wonder where the "pivot point" is. I mean, there's no physical evidence against Saville either but admittedly there are far more accusors and no one has trouble believing that he's guilty. But how many would be "enough" for Jackson? 10? 20? 50? I sort of feel like a hundred people could come forward with claims and every single one would be dubbed "lies for money".

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I just wonder where the "pivot point" is. I mean, there's no physical evidence against Saville either but admittedly there are far more accusors and no one has trouble believing that he's guilty. But how many would be "enough" for Jackson? 10? 20? 50? I sort of feel like a hundred people could come forward with claims and every single one would be dubbed "lies for money".

If this had been Meatloaf he would have been guilty as sin on page one by all members

[user104658]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

If this had been Meatloaf he would have been guilty as sin on page one by all members

Bat Out Of Hell kicks the crap out of anything MJ ever made though

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Bat Out Of Hell kicks the crap out of anything MJ ever made though

"I will do anything for love but i wont do THAT"

No Meat good lad, but MJ did

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I just wonder where the "pivot point" is. I mean, there's no physical evidence against Saville either but admittedly there are far more accusors and no one has trouble believing that he's guilty. But how many would be "enough" for Jackson? 10? 20? 50? I sort of feel like a hundred people could come forward with claims and every single one would be dubbed "lies for money".

I wonder if McCauley Culkin came out and said actually MJ did abuse me what people would say? I suspect that it would be because he was trying to raise his profile, get money etc.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I reckon if MJ had come out himself and admitted it you'd probably say he was coerced or something Kaz

We'll never know

[user104658]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

"I will do anything for love but i wont do THAT"

No Meat good lad, but MJ did

Youtube video

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

That is a bold and patently false statement there Joey. The world's foremost experts on child grooming wouldn't claim to know all there is to know about it and the idea that you do is just bizarre and I can only assume reactionary because you're feeling questioned. Surely you can appreciate that it's an outlandish claim.

For goodness sake.
I never said I knew all there was about grooming.
For crying out loud.
You suggested I read up on it.
I said I'd read all there was to know on it.

Not that I knew all about grooming totally.

So stop twisting what I say to be so confrontational.
So where did I say I knew all there was rather than I had read all on the issue.

The bizarre thing is you even bother to keep getting at my posts because, as to these 2 individuals in that documentary.
You and I will never ever agree.
I believe they were lying.
Nothing I saw or heard from them over the 2 programmes led me to any other conclusion than that.

Taking in all they said for most of their lives, taking into account the investigation, trial and all the not guilty verdicts given too.
Then watching this documentary.
Putting it all together, I go with the trial verdicts on Jackson.

Not just taking as gospel this 2 programme storytelling with no questioning from anyone as to what they were saying being challenged.
Why would they not want this to be done more in an interview with questioning of their accounts by others..

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I wonder if McCauley Culkin came out and said actually MJ did abuse me what people would say? I suspect that it would be because he was trying to raise his profile, get money etc.

"His career has been dead for years, he's an addict and addicts lie, he probably spent all of his own money on drugs, he's probably in debt, he's recovered lately and tried to restart his career but failed, now after money". You can write it without it happening

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

"His career has been dead for years, he's an addict and addicts lie, he probably spent all of his own money on drugs, he's probably in debt, he's recovered lately and tried to restart his career but failed, now after money". You can write it without it happening

Don't forget "well, he said the opposite in court under oath so he's a proved liar ".....

The rule is people are only credible if they're on the "right" side of the fence

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I just wonder where the "pivot point" is. I mean, there's no physical evidence against Saville either but admittedly there are far more accusors and no one has trouble believing that he's guilty. But how many would be "enough" for Jackson? 10? 20? 50? I sort of feel like a hundred people could come forward with claims and every single one would be dubbed "lies for money".

Wasn't there audio tapes of Saville talking about some of the stuff he'de done plus a lot of his was witnessed by adults in the business and was there any attempt to extort money from him , and did the victims defend him then change their minds

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

"His career has been dead for years, he's an addict and addicts lie, he probably spent all of his own money on drugs, he's probably in debt, he's recovered lately and tried to restart his career but failed, now after money". You can write it without it happening

Everyone lies at some point not just addicts

[user104658]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

For goodness sake.
I never said I knew all there was about grooming.
For crying out loud.
You suggested I read up on it.
I said I'd read all there was to know on it.

Not that I knew all about grooming totally.

I still find it a pretty outlandish claim Joey, people spend their entire professional lives studying this topic . I'm not claiming to be one of those people but I'm also aware that you aren't either...

So stop twisting what I say to be so confrontational.
So where did I say I knew all there was rather than I had read all on the issue.

The bizarre thing is you even bother to keep getting at my posts because, as to these 2 individuals in that documentary.
You and I will never ever agree.
I believe they were lying.
Nothing I saw or heard from them over the 2 programmes led me to any other conclusion than that.

Taking in all they said for most of their lives, taking into account the investigation, trial and all the not guilty verdicts given too.
Then watching this documentary.
Putting it all together, I go with the trial verdicts on Jackson.

Not just taking as gospel this 2 programme storytelling with no questioning from anyone as to what they were saying being challenged.
Why would they not want this to be done more in an interview with questioning of their accounts by others..

I'm not going to argue that it's a balanced documentary, because it isn't. I don't think it pretends to be, though... it's a vehicle for them to tell their story and in my opinion it doesn't pretend to be anything else. I think it's actually very fair in the depiction of Jackson and doesn't demonise him at all, though some will find the accusations demonising enough, the documentary doesn't paint him as evil or calculating at all, it paints him as a damaged individual who probably had no idea that he was causing significant harm and genuinely believed he was in mutual loving relationships that "others wouldn't understand". It could EASILY have painted a monster, but didn't.

But again I won't try to argue that it's an objective examination of the whole thing. I happen to believe them but not just because this show convinced me.

I also agree that a Louis Theroux style piece on it would be very interesting. Old-style Theroux (90's, early 00's) of course where he played the detached observer and asked awkward questions. In recent years he's gone a bit soft.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Everyone lies at some point not just addicts

I know that and a lot of addicts are also extremely, painfully honest in my experience. I'm just thinking of examples of what people would say to discredit him, because they would definitely try to, and his drug problem would be an easy target (much like Wade Robson's bad relationships).

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Had the one kept the underwear for one instance.
Only he went to get them he said.
He didn't need to get rid of them.
If they had not been conveniently got rid of 'by him himself, not even apparently worrying his blood was on them even, that was solid evidence.

If, I stress if, it was ever the case they existed with blood on them, and his tale had even the slightest element of truth as to it.

Dont forget MJ had got into his head about the lie they would both go to prison,Wade thought he was protecting HIMSELF not Jackson

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Tony Montana

Thank you Kazanne, I figured it may have been discussed already on here, but i didn't have the time to go all the way back to previous pages. I'd only just read about it today

Seems bizarre that her Husband would force her to do something like that

Every chance it was pressure from the family, she said in an interview his Mother tried to cover up stuff

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

"His career has been dead for years, he's an addict and addicts lie, he probably spent all of his own money on drugs, he's probably in debt, he's recovered lately and tried to restart his career but failed, now after money". You can write it without it happening

This is just what I was going to post, he must go down in history as one of the most untrustworthy witness ever, as you say he was on every drug known to man, his career was in tatters ,he got his palm crossed with $$ and took them, MJ would have told him to name his price as he was a well known face

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

"His career has been dead for years, he's an addict and addicts lie, he probably spent all of his own money on drugs, he's probably in debt, he's recovered lately and tried to restart his career but failed, now after money". You can write it without it happening

Yup. Spot on. Regardless of who comes out, how many or whatever, its ALWAYS just going to be lies for money/attention.

[chuff me dizzy]

I see professional parasite Andre has jumped on the bandwagon today as a "near miss "

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/peter-andr...QQ-mzrxo20Jk7g

[user104658]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

I see professional parasite Andre has jumped on the bandwagon today as a "near miss "

Apparently he came second in the dance competition that Wade Robson won? Is that the one he won when he was 5 where they initially said he could dance but wouldn't be eligible to win?

Peter Andre: "I think the important thing to learn from this documentary is that I WOZ ROBBED! He wasn't even supposed to be in the contest!"

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Apparently he came second in the dance competition that Wade Robson won? Is that the one he won when he was 5 where they initially said he could dance but wouldn't be eligible to win?

Peter Andre: "I think the important thing to learn from this documentary is that I WOZ ROBBED! He wasn't even supposed to be in the contest!"

Everything Andre says and does boils my blood

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I reckon if MJ had come out himself and admitted it you'd probably say he was coerced or something Kaz

That's really uncalled for imo....no need to rubbish people's opinions or vieWS on a subject..the man has been found not guilty after all. ..really not nice at all.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I just wonder where the "pivot point" is. I mean, there's no physical evidence against Saville either but admittedly there are far more accusors and no one has trouble believing that he's guilty. But how many would be "enough" for Jackson? 10? 20? 50? I sort of feel like a hundred people could come forward with claims and every single one would be dubbed "lies for money".

Uncalled for as well....2 members discussing another member....I don't think Kaz has ever said he ain't guilty, but more she is reluctant to believe these to guys...


This ain't the first time in this thread either.....leave it out.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Uncalled for as well....2 members discussing another member....I don't think Kaz has ever said he ain't guilty, but more she is reluctant to believe these to guys...





This ain't the first time in this thread either.....leave it out.

I'm not talking about Kaz, parm .