[Josy]

Great first post.

[Niamh.]

It is not a complex situation. Not many Housemates like Freddie and find him annoying; they simply want rid of him (despite the fact the the public bizzarly support him). Noirin has the right to nominate him equally as much as any other HM and has done so week after week.

You are implying that a single televised event of Freddie removing Noirin's glasses should have altered Noirin's perception of Halfwit. The premise is based on a complete lack of understanding of human relationships. We do not know whether Noirin repaid the favour in any other way (perhaps giving him a beer or cooked a meal for him) and your pre-occupation that she should alter her view of Freddie is just not realistic. To marry Freddies "favour" with an insistance that Noirin should suddenly like Freddie and not nominate him is as equally invalid as any suggestion that Lisa shouldn't have nominated him after Freddie gave her one of his ciggies.

Every HM every day will appear to contradict themselves by doing favours or trading insults with others, but when it comes to nominations, the HM's simply state who they don't want in the house.

It is not for the mere public to tell the HM's who they should get along with and who they should get rid of; they are quite capable of discerning for themselves who to nominate.

It IS partizan of you to suggest that an HM should or should not have nominated for X reason, but since we, the public, never get to see the whole picture, we have to assume that ANY HM has the perfect right to nominate anyone and getting mad about it for reason X, is simply lacking understanding.

Whist Noirin has temporarily fallen out with Sree whilst she reasses her relationship with him, it is also crazy to suggest that any minor skirmish that has been televised should result in a sudden attack from Noirin on her once closish friend. Noirin sympathises with Sree's personality and didn't wish to nominate him.

Rather than attack Sree, she chose to turn the other cheek.

That is simply her own choice. [/quote]

Excellent points, very eloquently put!!

[BB22]

Originally posted by jimdan

It is not a complex situation. Not many Housemates like Freddie and find him annoying; they simply want rid of him (despite the fact the the public bizzarly support him). Noirin has the right to nominate him equally as much as any other HM and has done so week after week.

You are implying that a single televised event of Freddie removing Noirin's glasses should have altered Noirin's perception of Halfwit. The premise is based on a complete lack of understanding of human relationships. We do not know whether Noirin repaid the favour in any other way (perhaps giving him a beer or cooked a meal for him) and your pre-occupation that she should alter her view of Freddie is just not realistic. To marry Freddies "favour" with an insistance that Noirin should suddenly like Freddie and not nominate him is as equally invalid as any suggestion that Lisa shouldn't have nominated him after Freddie gave her one of his ciggies.

Every HM every day will appear to contradict themselves by doing favours or trading insults with others, but when it comes to nominations, the HM's simply state who they don't want in the house.

It is not for the mere public to tell the HM's who they should get along with and who they should get rid of; they are quite capable of discerning for themselves who to nominate.

It IS partizan of you to suggest that an HM should or should not have nominated for X reason, but since we, the public, never get to see the whole picture, we have to assume that ANY HM has the perfect right to nominate anyone and getting mad about it for reason X, is simply lacking understanding.

Whist Noirin has temporarily fallen out with Sree whilst she reasses her relationship with him, it is also crazy to suggest that any minor skirmish that has been televised should result in a sudden attack from Noirin on her once closish friend. Noirin sympathises with Sree's personality and didn't wish to nominate him.

Rather than attack Sree, she chose to turn the other cheek.

That is simply her own choice.

I am sorry to hear you think I have a complete lack of understanding of human relationships.

Actually, I respect your right to hold an entirely different view to me and I very much doubt that we are going to come to an agreement. However, your repeated claim that I am somehow "partisan" is rather odd. In fact, I am not sure the word is even being used correctly in the context of your post.

Are you saying that I am holding factually incorrect views due to a certain bias? I see no basis for such an accusation, you offer no information to support such a claim and it does not seem to fit well with other parts of your post. So perhaps "partisan" (note the "s") is not what you really mean.

As for whether Noirin should or should not have nominated Halfwit, that is a normative claim. There is a difference between talking about what she has a right to do under the rules, what was "simply her own choice" and what we might judge she should or should not have done, which is normative. So, you see, there is no "lacking understanding" on my part on that particular point. I know exactly what she has a right to do. I am more concerned about what she should have done and, which is connected, what I expected her to do on that basis.

Simply repeating to me that Noirin had the right to make that choice is not going to affect my argument whatsoever, since I already accept that she did have that right.

[tramp-stamp]

I think its up to big brother, to delve into its bag of dirty tricks and find something that will divide the nasties group. Perhaps showing the housemates nominations on the screen could make dogface see that kris has only been using her, perhaps, big brother could question the coincidence that lisa, kris, dogface and karly all voted identically, and so put those four up to the public vote too

[jimdan]

Originally posted by BB22

I am sorry to hear you think I have a complete lack of understanding of human relationships.

Actually, I respect your right to hold an entirely different view to me and I very much doubt that we are going to come to an agreement. However, your repeated claim that I am somehow "partisan" is rather odd. In fact, I am not sure the word is even being used correctly in the context of your post.

Are you saying that I am holding factually incorrect views due to a certain bias? I see no basis for such an accusation, you offer no information to support such a claim and it does not seem to fit well with other parts of your post. So perhaps "partisan" (note the "s") is not what you really mean.

As for whether Noirin should or should not have nominated Halfwit, that is a normative claim. There is a difference between talking about what she has a right to do under the rules, what was "simply her own choice" and what we might judge she should or should not have done, which is normative. So, you see, there is no "lacking understanding" on my part on that particular point. I know exactly what she has a right to do. I am more concerned about what she should have done and, which is connected, what I expected her to do on that basis.

Simply repeating to me that Noirin had the right to make that choice is not going to affect my argument whatsoever, since I already accept that she did have that right.

The fact you keep denying to yourself is that it is a very plain that Noirin prefers Sree as a companion than to have to live with Freddie. She is entitled without criticism to make that choice.

Your lack of understanding as to why Noirin makes that choice and the fact that your lengthy post culminates in some telling words (above bold), confirms that I am correct in my assertion.

You didn't bite at the example I quoted of Halfwit providing Lisa with cigarettes and then going on to nominate him. Your post contained no impassioned plea to condemn Lisa for her actions.

I agree that we can agree to disagree, however your motivation to post in the first instance was/is partizan (note the "z") insofar that your post takes a partizan stance pro Freddie anti Noirin. You know that and I know that.

[Prole]

Hello BB22... good post.

I'm hoping for a week when the whole house is up for eviction. I think there would be some very surprised faces at the result.

[RCW1945]

BB22
Long posts are fine when they are written grammatically and spelled correctly - it is so tedious trying to read some of the dreadful garbage on here.
Well done, yours was interesting and intelligible.

[Indierock&roll]

i agree with most of that wow except i think rodrigo sways more towards "the nasties" but tbh im not really aware of any of these groups just charlie kris karly and sophie and sort of lisa

[MissKittyFantastico]

Excellent post!

I'm really worried that we're going to end up with just Freddie and the nasties in the final couple of weeks. As much as I like Freddie, he's not enough on his own to keep me entertained, and the nasties just bore me to tears. We need people like Marcus, Siavash (my personal favorite HM) and even Sree as much as he annoys me, in the house to balance it out a bit, but unless BB sets a task where if they fail they're all up for eviction or something similar then all the interesting characters are going to be picked off one by one.

A couple of new HM's that are likely to join forces with Freddie and co. could turn things around. Or a new good looking girl to cause tension between the nasties could also rock the boat....we need something to happen!

[BB22]

Originally posted by jimdan

The fact you keep denying to yourself is that it is a very plain that Noirin prefers Sree as a companion than to have to live with Freddie. She is entitled without criticism to make that choice.

Your lack of understanding as to why Noirin makes that choice and the fact that your lengthy post culminates in some telling words (above bold), confirms that I am correct in my assertion.

You didn't bite at the example I quoted of Halfwit providing Lisa with cigarettes and then going on to nominate him. Your post contained no impassioned plea to condemn Lisa for her actions.

I agree that we can agree to disagree, however your motivation to post in the first instance was/is partizan (note the "z") insofar that your post takes a partizan stance pro Freddie anti Noirin. You know that and I know that.

Thanks so much for your well thought out responses.

However, I am not sure where the debate can go from here. You seem preoccupied with some alleged partisanship which does not exist and have simply decided to keep telling me how I am thinking.

Having examined my own motivations I can, with the utmost certainty, say that my opinions on this matter have nothing whatsoever to do with a liking for one HM or a disliking for another and I would apply the same rigorous standards of just behaviour to whichever HMs were involved.

In fact, as I have tried to intimate before, I am not particularly pro-Halfwit or anti-Noirin, or at least not with respect to other activities in the House unrelated to this particular unfortunate sequence of events. You can believe me or otherwise but I shall not discuss that aspect again as it is rather tiresome to continually rebut claims about one's own thought processes when your interlocutor is making unfounded claims. So, your bold claim that "you know it and I know it" is incorrect, I am afraid. As any philosopher with a grounding in epistemology will tell you, a person can only know something which is true. And your claim is not. So neither of us can know it. You merely believe it, erroneously.

Further, I thought it was clear from my post why I expected Noirin not to nominate Halfwit: because in the circumstance I thought not nominating him was the right thing to do, and I expected her to do the right thing. This rather indicates my previously fairly positive view of her, no? Which undermines at least two aspects of your response to me in one go. You are certainly correct that Noirin's failure to nominate Sree tells us something significant about her motivations and her relative opinions of the two men.

It seems, at its core, your disagreement with me is centred on one specific point. You do not think it was unjust of Noirin to nominate Halfwit this week. I do. I fail to see, given the previous discussions, how we are going to make any progress towards reaching a consensus on that particular issue.

Have a good day. Cheerio.

[Ketman]

What seems to be forgotten here is the remarkable fact that more than half of the HMs have nominated the HM who is the public's runaway favourite. On the TiBB poll, Freddie's 21% share of the vote is 50% more than his nearest rival, Charlie. Yet more than half of his fellow contestants want him gone.

While we can't expect BB housemates to be a representative sample of the population, (you have to be something of freak to go on the show in the first place), I would not expect that much deviation between the HMs and the public. It's just too extreme. Last week I suggested that it was down to the fact that they lived with Freddie 24/7, whereas we have him once a day for an hour. But now I think even that is not enough to explain it. Clearly Freddie is a lot more annoying on a continuous basis than he is portrayed in the HLs. There have been many signs this year that BB has lost the ability even to know what to point their cameras at. (Who stole the drink during the banquet? Was Shree telling the truth or lying? Nobody knows. Perhaps the cameramen were asleep at the time).

In the light of that, the fact that Freddie chose to have Noirin relieved of her infantile task wouldn't count for much. I believe she nominated him for the very good reason that he just rubs her up the wrong way, as is obviously true for six other HMs as well. Sree, on the other hand, although he has offended her a lot, might be someone she feels a responsibility for. Maybe she did lead him on a bit, or at least wasn't firm enough in putting him off. It's possible she feels guilty about that now, and may not be able to bring herself to nominate him at all during the time that remains for him.

My own feeling about Noirin, which I've had for at least a week, is that she is terminally bored. If the good manners and decorum she showed in the early days are starting to fall to pieces, it might just be that she has reached a point of no return psychologically. I actually suspect she is getting ready to walk.

[rusticgal]

...welcome BB22.Great first post and spot on.However I do believe Noirins votes are clever... she is playing the game and voted who she rightly assumes to be possible favorites.
This game will not be allowed to take on the format we premise... I think 6 new HM's will go in in one hit... allowing the dynamics to change.

[RCW1945]

Noirin is the only HM who has successfully nominated both HMs who are nominated for eviction all three times.
Why do a majority nominate Freddy? Because they are of very low intelligence so that when he uses words and language which they do not understand he makes them feel insecure.
Judged from previous BBs when the data has been revealed some of these HMs have IQs so low that they need special education.
I think it is wrong for the producers to select such people, I feel sorry that they are exposed to mental challenges which are beyond them.

[Twilight]

Wow BB22 that post was amazing.