[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by MissKittyFantastico

Yes I know you didn't mean to offend me, and you weren't using it in that way, some people do though and I think that's out of order. Yes love for a human being that you yourself have helped create and brought into the world is going to be like no other and I fully understand the want to see justice done for that child, but taking away another person's life, who is also someone ELSE'S child is not the answer imo, and it solves nothing.

This may sound a bit harsh but I couldn't give a ***** if they're someone else child if they've taken away mine!

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

This may sound a bit harsh but I couldn't give a ***** if they're someone else child if they've taken away mine!

Would you feel the same if the shoe was on the other foot and it was your child that could be executed though? You can't really discount the parent's feelings since they'd feel the same grief as you, possible more due to the fact their child commited the crime.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Would you feel the same if the shoe was on the other foot and it was your child that could be executed though? You can't really discount the parent's feelings since they'd feel the same grief as you, possible more due to the fact their child commited the crime.

I honestly can't even answer that. I don't know how I would feel in that situation tbh.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Would you feel the same if the shoe was on the other foot and it was your child that could be executed though? You can't really discount the parent's feelings since they'd feel the same grief as you, possible more due to the fact their child commited the crime.

Well perhaps they should have done a better job bringing their child up properly in the first place. The propensity to become a murderer, rapist, paedophile etc., must have been evident at some point during their upbringing and the parents have either ignored it or worse, been instrumental by virtue of their inadequate parenting, in fostering it.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by angus58

Well perhaps they should have done a better job bringing their child up properly in the first place. The propensity to become a murderer, rapist, paedophile etc., must have been evident at some point during their upbringing and the parents have either ignored it or worse, been instrumental by virtue of their inadequate parenting, in fostering it.

Upbringing has nothing to do with it. People from good families become killers, Paedos rapists. The whole 'it's because they had a bad upbringing' thing is a myth.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by InOne

Upbringing has nothing to do with it. People from good families become killers, Paedos rapists. The whole 'it's because they had a bad upbringing' thing is a myth.

I would say in alot of cases it has something to do with it, not all but alot

[InOne]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

I would say in alot of cases it has something to do with it, not all but alot

Indeed, but that is when it becomes harder to catch a Paedophile, when you assume they'll be some creepy looking guy hanging out at schools.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by InOne

Indeed, but that is when it becomes harder to catch a Paedophile, when you assume they'll be some creepy looking guy hanging out at schools.

no I mean I wouldn't assume that they look like anything

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by InOne

Upbringing has nothing to do with it. People from good families become killers, Paedos rapists. The whole 'it's because they had a bad upbringing' thing is a myth.

but then your saying there pure evil because they must have at least had 1 thing bad in the childhood.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by jedward fever

but then your saying there pure evil because they must have at least had 1 thing bad in the childhood.

Pure evil people do exist.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by InOne

Upbringing has nothing to do with it. People from good families become killers, Paedos rapists. The whole 'it's because they had a bad upbringing' thing is a myth.

Yet another sweeping statement with nothing to back it up, delivered with such an air of pseudo authority that it might just impress some, but certainly not me.

If you want to debate a point at least give a counter argument, not just "it's a myth". You talk about people from "good families" without actually defining what that means. Kids brought up in ostensibly "good" families offend, so perhaps those "good" families need to be examined more closely.

[MissKittyFantastico]

Originally Posted by angus58

Yet another sweeping statement with nothing to back it up, delivered with such an air of pseudo authority that it might just impress some, but certainly not me.

If you want to debate a point at least give a counter argument, not just "it's a myth". You talk about people from "good families" without actually defining what that means. Kids brought up in ostensibly "good" families offend, so perhaps those "good" families need to be examined more closely.

Like I said before it's the whole nature v nuture argument, something I am actually learning about at the moment. Some say that people are born evil, or that mental illness is in the genes, others argue that it's during childhood where ALL behaviours are learnt, there really isnt any conclusive proof either way which is why the debate continues to rage on about it, so noone is right or wrong.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by MissKittyFantastico

Like I said before it's the whole nature v nuture argument, something I am actually learning about at the moment. Some say that people are born evil, or that mental illness is in the genes, others argue that it's during childhood where ALL behaviours are learnt, there really isnt any conclusive proof either way which is why the debate continues to rage on about it, so noone is right or wrong.

I would say it's a bit of both but more so nurture, just my opinion though

[InOne]

Originally Posted by angus58

Yet another sweeping statement with nothing to back it up, delivered with such an air of pseudo authority that it might just impress some, but certainly not me.

If you want to debate a point at least give a counter argument, not just "it's a myth". You talk about people from "good families" without actually defining what that means. Kids brought up in ostensibly "good" families offend, so perhaps those "good" families need to be examined more closely.

Infact you'll find that the fact they all come from bad backgrounds is a sweeping statement in itself. I do know what I'm talking about actually. I think you're just trying to nit pick. Can you back up the opposite? Nope, didn't think so.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by InOne

Infact you'll find that the fact they all come from bad backgrounds is a sweeping statement in itself. I do know what I'm talking about actually. I think you're just trying to nit pick. Can you back up the opposite? Nope, didn't think so.

There you go again - I never said that all psychopaths come from "bad" families either. There are plenty of kids who have had the most terrible upbringings who grow up to be absolutely fine human beings, so there must be other factors in play, which is why I asked for your definition of a "good" family. A lot of people define a good family as consisting of a mother and father from a financially stable background, steady jobs, good schools, good education etc. But what about the day to day family dynamics, life experiences,divorced parents, sibling rivalries, traumas, bereavements etc, etc, all factors which can over-ride the apparently good influences?

And what of children brought up in the care system - what studies have been done to asses the percentage of those children who grow up to offend.

[MissKittyFantastico]

Originally Posted by angus58

Well perhaps they should have done a better job bringing their child up properly in the first place. The propensity to become a murderer, rapist, paedophile etc., must have been evident at some point during their upbringing and the parents have either ignored it or worse, been instrumental by virtue of their inadequate parenting, in fostering it.

Sorry but I don't agree with that at all. Not all rapists, murderers etc show signs of having any issues at all growing up, and it's harsh to pin the blame on the parents, when any number of things that happen later on in life could have sparked them off. That brings in the whole nature v nuture debate as well, and experts are very split on that subject. Are people born evil or are they a product of their environment?

[Iceman]

Originally Posted by angus58

Well perhaps they should have done a better job bringing their child up properly in the first place. The propensity to become a murderer, rapist, paedophile etc., must have been evident at some point during their upbringing and the parents have either ignored it or worse, been instrumental by virtue of their inadequate parenting, in fostering it.

Thats a stupid statement to make really, not everybodies upbringing sets them out for the way they will be later on in life, some yes but not all....

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Iceman

Thats a stupid statement to make really, not everybodies upbringing sets them out for the way they will be later on in life, some yes but not all....

Yet again it's okay for some to put others down with dismissive statements when they have nothing else to bring to the table themselves.

There are always signs of some sort in a budding psychopath and a good parent would surely notice signs of unusual behaviour and get the appropriate help for their child. A bad parent might actually be the reason why their child is a psychopath. Then into the mix there has to be considered the possibility of inherited mental illnesses, again which would surely have been picked up by a good parent.

That aside, it's staggering really that hypothetically the parents of a murdered child, according to some on this thread, are supposed to be considerate of the feelings of the parents of the scum that killed their child. They are also supposed to meekly accept the pathetic sentences handed down, as well as be filled with understanding and compassion for the killer who might well have inflicted the most unimaginable pain and terror on their child.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by angus58

Yet again it's okay for some to put others down with dismissive statements when they have nothing else to bring to the table themselves.

There are always signs of some sort in a budding psychopath and a good parent would surely notice signs of unusual behaviour and get the appropriate help for their child. A bad parent might actually be the reason why their child is a psychopath. Then into the mix there has to be considered the possibility of inherited mental illnesses, again which would surely have been picked up by a good parent.

That aside, it's staggering really that hypothetically the parents of a murdered child, according to some on this thread, are supposed to be considerate of the feelings of the parents of the scum that killed their child. They are also supposed to meekly accept the pathetic sentences handed down, as well as be filled with understanding and compassion for the killer who might well have inflicted the most unimaginable pain and terror on their child.

Spot on,Angus

[MissKittyFantastico]

Originally Posted by angus58

Yet again it's okay for some to put others down with dismissive statements when they have nothing else to bring to the table themselves.

There are always signs of some sort in a budding psychopath and a good parent would surely notice signs of unusual behaviour and get the appropriate help for their child. A bad parent might actually be the reason why their child is a psychopath. Then into the mix there has to be considered the possibility of inherited mental illnesses, again which would surely have been picked up by a good parent.

That aside, it's staggering really that hypothetically the parents of a murdered child, according to some on this thread, are supposed to be considerate of the feelings of the parents of the scum that killed their child. They are also supposed to meekly accept the pathetic sentences handed down, as well as be filled with understanding and compassion for the killer who might well have inflicted the most unimaginable pain and terror on their child.

I think some of these signs can be misdiagnosed though by doctors as things such as ADHD and the like, so you can't really blame the parent for that if they take the kid to the doctors when they see signs and the doctor doesn't correctly diagnose. Also a lot of mental illnesses show very similar early warning signs, you hear stories of people being diagnosed as bipolar when in fact they are displaying psycopathic tendencies, so once again it's really the system that's at fault and not so much the parents. Not in all cases mind you, but the mental health sector in this country is so criminally underfunded and staffed that these things slip through the net time and time again and then it's too late.

And once again noone here is saying that parents should sit by and accept the shoddy justice system in this country, in fact if you did a poll right now I would expect most people on here to agree that murderers, paedophiles and the like should be locked up and the key thrown away. I personally just don't believe that an eye for an eye solves anything.

[Iceman]

Originally Posted by angus58

Yet again it's okay for some to put others down with dismissive statements when they have nothing else to bring to the table themselves.

There are always signs of some sort in a budding psychopath and a good parent would surely notice signs of unusual behaviour and get the appropriate help for their child. A bad parent might actually be the reason why their child is a psychopath. Then into the mix there has to be considered the possibility of inherited mental illnesses, again which would surely have been picked up by a good parent.

That aside, it's staggering really that hypothetically the parents of a murdered child, according to some on this thread, are supposed to be considerate of the feelings of the parents of the scum that killed their child. They are also supposed to meekly accept the pathetic sentences handed down, as well as be filled with understanding and compassion for the killer who might well have inflicted the most unimaginable pain and terror on their child.

So my opinion is invalid because you deem Im bringing nothing to the table? There is never always some sort of sign of a budding psycopath thats a ridiculous thing to say aswell, if that were the case there would be no people like that out there.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by angus58

Well perhaps they should have done a better job bringing their child up properly in the first place. The propensity to become a murderer, rapist, paedophile etc., must have been evident at some point during their upbringing and the parents have either ignored it or worse, been instrumental by virtue of their inadequate parenting, in fostering it.

More often then not it's not the parents fault, how would you feel if your children did something wrong and placed the blame at your door? Sometimes it is poor parenting but you can have a perfect set of parents and that doesn't mean the kid will do no wrong.

[MissKittyFantastico]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

This may sound a bit harsh but I couldn't give a ***** if they're someone else child if they've taken away mine!

But by killing someone else's child you are then putting the same grief and suffering that you are going through onto someone else who has done nothing wrong. I just couldn't live with that and wouldn't wish that onto another innocent human being.

[setanta]

Originally Posted by MissKittyFantastico

But by killing someone else's child you are then putting the same grief and suffering that you are going through onto someone else who has done nothing wrong. I just couldn't live with that and wouldn't wish that onto another innocent human being.

That's it really. Couldn't do it either. And what are you teaching your other children and how will they view you after the event? Nah, couldn't do it.

[MissKittyFantastico]

Originally Posted by setanta

That's it really. Couldn't do it either. And what are you teaching your other children and how will they view you after the event? Nah, couldn't do it.

That's the thing, I know my initial response would be to want to kill anyone who harmed my own, but would I be able to live with having taken another human life and have my kids look at me knowing I'm for all intents and purposes a murderer? No I couldn't. It would haunt me for the rest of my life.