[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I think the soldier analogy is a terrible one to use, this isn't a war situation and thus not applicable in any way.

The reason I used it, is because they kill people but that is accepted, I was simply trying to explain that killing another person is not always considered to be murder. You may think it's a terrible comparison to make but I don't.

[MissKittyFantastico]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

also, the term "murderer" is quite subjective really. Do you consider a soldier to be a murderer? they kill people who may not be half as bad as a paedophile

That's a totally different thing Niamh!

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

The reason I used it, is because they kill people but that is accepted, I was simply trying to explain that killing another person is not always considered to be murder. You may think it's a terrible comparison to make but I don't.

But a soldier killing an insurgent is a different setting and different rules. Civilian laws aren't comparable to the regulations of beng a soldier.

[setanta]

Originally Posted by happyland

Oh believe me I could! If somebody killed my child, my life would be effected in such a way that an execution room would be a dawdle! I would give the bastard a few more buzzes for good measure too..

Seriously, it would not be a problem for me! Not at all!

I don't think it would be possible to get over the death of a child.. ever.

And no, killing would not bring the child back,but it would ensure that he didn't kill anybody else's baby plus rid me of the anger at the thought of him spending a few poxy years in a cell with a roof over his head and basically being protected by our shoddy system!

You say that now, but it would stay with you forever and with your other kids. Eye for an eye never works.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by MissKittyFantastico

Really? I think perhaps a lot of people could sit here and say that NOW, but when it actually comes to taking another person's life, it's a whole different matter. And it doesn't change anything, doesn't take away the crime that's been committed and someone else is also now dead. I just don't see how it makes anything better at all. And the criminal most probably has parents too, that have committed no wrong doing, so the grief and suffering is just being made more and more widespread.

obviously I haven't actually ever been in the situation so I could not tell you whether or not I would feel different if something like that ever happened but this is how I think I would feel. Why do you think I would care about the someone else who died when they're the ones who killed my child? I wonder if you would feel different if and when you do have kids? (I'm not saying that to be smart btw I am just genuinely curious about it)

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by happyland

To be honest I could live with that easier than I could live with anything happening to my children.

Well said happyland,some of these people are living in Disney World.If people have not got children ,how can they possibly feel the same as people who have,it is a love like no other(well should be) I would die for my children,and I'de happily serve time for protecting them,whatever that entailed.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

But a soldier killing an insurgent is a different setting and different rules. Civilian laws aren't comparable to the regulations of beng a soldier.

yes I know but I wasn't using it in a law or regulations type comparison, I was asked how I would feel about killing the person afterwards. Whether a soldier is permitted to kill someone or not, they still feel like every other civilian does.

[MissKittyFantastico]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

obviously I haven't actually ever been in the situation so I could not tell you whether or not I would feel different if something like that ever happened but this is how I think I would feel. Why do you think I would care about the someone else who died when they're the ones who killed my child? I wonder if you would feel different if and when you do have kids? (I'm not saying that to be smart btw I am just genuinely curious about it)

See I really don't like that, 'maybe you will feel different if and when you have kids', I think that's really unfair to use in debates. I know having a child is the most precious gift and the love is meant to be like no other, but I have already said that I would die for people that I love and my initial reaction would be to want to kill anyone that harmed them, I just know I wouldnt be able to actually do it and I don't think it's the answer.

[setanta]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

yes I know but I wasn't using it in a law or regulations type comparison, I was asked how I would feel about killing the person afterwards. Whether a soldier is permitted to kill someone or not, they still feel like every other civilian does.

They kill in a war, in combat, and have been trained to do it without emotion. Totally different. And quite a few of them suffer afterwards anyway.

[MissKittyFantastico]

Originally Posted by kazanne

Well said happyland,some of these people are living in Disney World.If people have not got children ,how can they possibly feel the same as people who have,it is a love like no other(well should be) I would die for my children,and I'de happily serve time for protecting them,whatever that entailed.

Protecting them is a different thing to exacting revenge though.

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by setanta

You say that now, but it would stay with you forever and with your other kids. Eye for an eye never works.

It would perhaps stay with me forever but so would losing a child!

I can't even begin to imagine how I would live if anything happened to my children at the hands of someone else.. It's painful to even think about.

The grief and pain of such a thing would be bad enough, but to know that whoever was responsible for such a thing was one day going to walk the streets again as a free man plus have his identity protected would add immeasurable anger to the devastation. I couldn't bear it.. I can't even stand to think about it. I would want that person dead.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by MissKittyFantastico

See I really don't like that, 'maybe you will feel different if and when you have kids', I think that's really unfair to use in debates. I know having a child is the most precious gift and the love is meant to be like no other, but I have already said that I would die for people that I love and my initial reaction would be to want to kill anyone that harmed them, I just know I wouldnt be able to actually do it and I don't think it's the answer.

I didn't mean to offend you with that statement Michelle, like I said I was just genuinely curious about it. I'm in no way belittling how strong your feelings for your loved ones are but the love you have for your children is just different.

[MissKittyFantastico]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

yes I know but I wasn't using it in a law or regulations type comparison, I was asked how I would feel about killing the person afterwards. Whether a soldier is permitted to kill someone or not, they still feel like every other civilian does.

And a hell of a lot of them are never the same again after having taken someone's life, PTSD and things like that that stays with them for years afterwards. That's why I'm saying it's not such a cut and dried argument and why asked I question if you would be able to live with taking another person's life.

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by kazanne

Well said happyland,some of these people are living in Disney World.If people have not got children ,how can they possibly feel the same as people who have,it is a love like no other(well should be) I would die for my children,and I'de happily serve time for protecting them,whatever that entailed.

Yeah, so would I. Obviously I feel protective over all my family and would be devastated if anyone harmed them, but the feelings are stronger, different even when it's your kids. Yeah I would die for them, no question!

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by setanta

They kill in a war, in combat, and have been trained to do it without emotion. Totally different. And quite a few of them suffer afterwards anyway.

I understand that and I wasn't having a go at soldiers at all, I think everyone has picked up the point I was trying to make wrongly. The point I was trying to make was that, a soldier is able to kill a person and sleep at night (not all I know) and I'm sure I would too as I would feel equally or even more justified.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by MissKittyFantastico

And a hell of a lot of them are never the same again after having taken someone's life, PTSD and things like that that stays with them for years afterwards. That's why I'm saying it's not such a cut and dried argument and why asked I question if you would be able to live with taking another person's life.

Ok well if they hurt my children then yes I think I would.

[MissKittyFantastico]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

I didn't mean to offend you with that statement Michelle, like I said I was just genuinely curious about it. I'm in no way belittling how strong your feelings for your loved ones are but the love you have for your children is just different.

Yes I know you didn't mean to offend me, and you weren't using it in that way, some people do though and I think that's out of order. Yes love for a human being that you yourself have helped create and brought into the world is going to be like no other and I fully understand the want to see justice done for that child, but taking away another person's life, who is also someone ELSE'S child is not the answer imo, and it solves nothing.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by kazanne

Well said happyland,some of these people are living in Disney World.If people have not got children ,how can they possibly feel the same as people who have,it is a love like no other(well should be) I would die for my children,and I'de happily serve time for protecting them,whatever that entailed.

Again you're belittling our opinions by saying that we don't know what we're on about because we're not parents. Can you actrually try and debate the points instead of writing the same thing over and over? Granted you feel strongly about this but you can't just sit there telling people they can't understand without partaking in the debate yourself.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by MissKittyFantastico

Yes I know you didn't mean to offend me, and you weren't using it in that way, some people do though and I think that's out of order. Yes love for a human being that you yourself have helped create and brought into the world is going to be like no other and I fully understand the want to see justice done for that child, but taking away another person's life, who is also someone ELSE'S child is not the answer imo, and it solves nothing.

This may sound a bit harsh but I couldn't give a ***** if they're someone else child if they've taken away mine!

[setanta]

Originally Posted by happyland

It would perhaps stay with me forever but so would losing a child!

I can't even begin to imagine how I would live if anything happened to my children at the hands of someone else.. It's painful to even think about.

The grief and pain of such a thing would be bad enough, but to know that whoever was responsible for such a thing was one day going to walk the streets again as a free man plus have his identity protected would add immeasurable anger to the devastation. I couldn't bear it.. I can't even stand to think about it. I would want that person dead.

It wouldn't help matters really. Have a friend who counsels victims of abuse and the deaths of the offenders never heals their wounds, only adds to them.

[MissKittyFantastico]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

Ok well if they hurt my children then yes I think I would.

That's fair enough then. I just think that for a lot of people when it actually came down to it, they wouldn't be able to, but maybe I'm wrong. And I still maintain that it's not the answer.

Make life mean life, simple as that really. Although like I said I do think if you're going to lock these types of people up for the rest of their natural, we may as well use them for studies etc and to try and find some kind of cure, in the case of paedophilia anyway. They have an illness and there may be a cure, if we just kill them then we're never going to get anywhere.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

This may sound a bit harsh but I couldn't give a ***** if they're someone else child if they've taken away mine!

Would you feel the same if the shoe was on the other foot and it was your child that could be executed though? You can't really discount the parent's feelings since they'd feel the same grief as you, possible more due to the fact their child commited the crime.

[MissKittyFantastico]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

This may sound a bit harsh but I couldn't give a ***** if they're someone else child if they've taken away mine!

But by killing someone else's child you are then putting the same grief and suffering that you are going through onto someone else who has done nothing wrong. I just couldn't live with that and wouldn't wish that onto another innocent human being.

[setanta]

Originally Posted by MissKittyFantastico

But by killing someone else's child you are then putting the same grief and suffering that you are going through onto someone else who has done nothing wrong. I just couldn't live with that and wouldn't wish that onto another innocent human being.

That's it really. Couldn't do it either. And what are you teaching your other children and how will they view you after the event? Nah, couldn't do it.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Would you feel the same if the shoe was on the other foot and it was your child that could be executed though? You can't really discount the parent's feelings since they'd feel the same grief as you, possible more due to the fact their child commited the crime.

I honestly can't even answer that. I don't know how I would feel in that situation tbh.