[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by arista

He is a 18year old
that has destroyed his Mums Future.



Sign Of The Times.

Right...so the parents are meant to be responsible for what an 18 year old does?

And its all well and good saying he shouldnt still be living with his parents as he is old enough to live on his own, but realistically, how many parents would kick their own kids out on the street just because they turn 18?

[arista]

"Throw then out when they do wrong,yes, but parents
cannot be with them all the time and especially teenagers. "


But that Mum could have kicked him out of his home.

Its her Fault.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Short of locking your kids in the house though, nailing their windows shut etc.(which is probably classed as child abuse) how on earth could you stop your child from joining in with what their mates are doing? Especially the late teenage children.

You are totally right Vicky, and although you used an extreme example it is also a good one because if Parents locked their children/teenagers in the house and nailed their windows down,they would be likely prosecuted for false imprisonment.

Parents and Teachers have had many restrictions placed on them by successive Govts.Look at the chaos in some schools and Teachers are left powerless to deal with it.
To advocate now punishing parents and other members of the family for one of their owns wrongdoing would be totally ridiculous and simply wrong to do so.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by arista

"Throw then out when they do wrong,yes, but parents
cannot be with them all the time and especially teenagers. "


But that Mum could have kicked him out of his home.

Its her Fault.

Again, many might say they would, but how many parents would actually throw their kids out?

And this whole asking parents to shop their kids if they know they were involved in the riots thing. It would be rare(IMO) for a parent to do that in the first place, even less likely now. Yeah, you help by telling the police that your child was involved. And are rewarded by being kicked out of your house

[arista]

"kicked out of your house"


No Vicky - This is not a Police Matter
This is Wandsworth Council matter
using this case to warn any others that have Council Flats
that their Contracts are legal.


Even the Labour Party understand this move.

[Marc]

It would be a stupid move. Why evict them? They'll just come back worse.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by arista

"kicked out of your house"


No Vicky - This is not a Police Matter
This is Wandsworth Council matter
using this case to warn any others that have Council Flats
that their Contracts are legal.


Even the Labour Party understand this move.

I didnt say it was the police that were evicting people.

But they are calling for people to grass their own kids (and fair play to anyone who has done it, it must take a LOT to do that) yet the people who are found to have kids who have been involved are getting kicked out. So basically, the few that would have done it in the first place, wont now.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I didnt say it was the police that were evicting people.

But they are calling for people to grass their own kids (and fair play to anyone who has done it, it must take a LOT to do that) yet the people who are found to have kids who have been involved are getting kicked out. So basically, the few that would have done it in the first place, wont now.

This is One London Council that is Using this council law.
To take Control of there area.


In Manchester its not the same.
The Police are wanting Parents to give up there bad kids

[Jords]

Talk about adding wood to the fire!

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by arista

This is One London Council that is Using this council law.
To take Control of there area.


In Manchester its not the same.
The Police are wanting Parents to give up there bad kids

Yet.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Jords

Talk about adding wood to the fire!

No
that mother can still go Live
on ITVNews
ITV1 London News, BBC1London News
Ch4News, Ch5News, SkyNewsHD , Newsnight
RT Russia, France24, CNN,
and LBC Radio.

[arista]

ITV London Local News
just went to the Local area that the 18 year old Punk Smashed Up
and Everyone on there Interview said yes Evict them,

Vicky , I am sorry but you are not getting the true picture here,
his Spanish mother will have to go to court over this.

But locals will Spit on her.

The 18 year old is locked up now
and claims he did nothing?
Thats why the Council are going Full attack on the Home.


Ref: ITV1 London News



Watch Ch4 News at 6:35PM today.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Short of locking your kids in the house though, nailing their windows shut etc.(which is probably classed as child abuse) how on earth could you stop your child from joining in with what their mates are doing? Especially the late teenage children.

It's not my problem that some people can't control their children. I would have thought it important to instill into your kids a sense of right and wrong, teach them what respect actually means and that it's not a word that was made up by MTV. And if that's not possible, parents should be ready to give up things in order to make amends.

Maybe some people should think longer and harder about whether they should have kids; remind them that, once they're finished dressing their little babies like dollies, there is a job to do to make them into responsible members of society. Otherwise we might as well say, no need to teach your kids to be responsible members of society because there is no come-back at all on the feckless parents, and the rest of us will pick up the tab.

[tmi]

The message is crime dosent pay, when you see the series Strangeways,they have three square meals a day a bed , snooker table and plasma tvs where is the punishment, I dont have a plasma tv . The deterent isnt there no more feed them on bread and water and lets see how they cope then.I think the government is seen has putting they foot down with the thugs and theyre families and saying you abide by the rules your ok if you dont your out.

I live in a run down area and I wish they would evict the drug dealers and the pervs from my neighbour, perhaps they should put them on a floating ship.
The riots were pure criminal and envy, I want what you have and if I cant afford it I will pinch it, bring back national service I say no job, then sign them
up give them some purpose, the rich are getting rich and the poorer are getting poorer, the frigging bonuses are being hande out to the ones who run the banks
perhaps that should be put into funding youth clubs, training centres for the young.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Livia

It's not my problem that some people can't control their children. I would have thought it important to instill into your kids a sense of right and wrong, teach them what respect actually means and that it's not a word that was made up by MTV. And if that's not possible, parents should be ready to give up things in order to make amends.

Maybe some people should think longer and harder about whether they should have kids; remind them that, once they're finished dressing their little babies like dollies, there is a job to do to make them into responsible members of society. Otherwise we might as well say, no need to teach your kids to be responsible members of society because there is no come-back at all on the feckless parents, and the rest of us will pick up the tab.

It's not your problem yet you'll stick your oar in. You can't just use that to back out of an argument when you feel like it. You blame the parents? Offer up real solutions instead of stock advice that doesn't work in the real world. People who criticise yet don't offer up any real solutions are just pointless.

Kids veer off the right path regardless of good parenting at times for outside factors, It's very easy to say it's the parents' fault but prisons aren't full of people from bad homes because shockingly enough people with good parents are also capable of making stupid decisions. Simply blaming the parents is just simplifying the matter down to a moronic degree and making them and other family members suffer for one person's idiocy is just foolishness. Most of the people who have been arrested have been teenagers on the higher end of the scale who know their own mind and the difference between right and wrong, even with bad parenting you'll realise that eventually. However it was their choice to riot, no one else's so why make a lot of people suffer who wouldn't have done anything wrong? People are just playing the blame game when the only people to blame are obvious, the rioters themselves.

[Shaun]

I think it's become difficult to put across exactly what "good parenting" is any more. With more and more traditional methods (particularly in the field of discipline) it's become apparent that parents are ultimately helpless in trying to instil discipline into children. I confess with no sense of bitterness or anger towards my mother, that she did hit me if I did something (very) wrong, and I do stand by the fact that it helps. I never had any bruises or psychological damage from it and I think penalising parents for it because of some extreme cases in the media is absurd.

However, I don't think the riots are down to poor parenting. And even so - the possibility of eviction doesn't just affect the parents, it affects siblings too (who are not "to blame"). For too long people have treated 'chavs' as some kind of subsociety with disdain and snobbery - and whilst I of course agree that rioting, vandalism and theft is by no means acceptable, it was an extreme reaction to gather attention for the amount of discrimination and injustice these people face every single day - by police, by the government and by the media. Time and time again you'll hear these people complain about their voices not being heard and this was the perfect opportunity to hear them.

It's difficult though because some will inevitably have gone along with the looting out of sheer opportunism and it's hard to distinguish these from those rioting out of frustration. And I am so bored of people arguing "oh you don't know real poverty like Ethiopia or Somalia do" - just because poverty isn't the most extreme poverty, does not mean it's not poverty.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Livia

It's not my problem that some people can't control their children. I would have thought it important to instill into your kids a sense of right and wrong, teach them what respect actually means and that it's not a word that was made up by MTV. And if that's not possible, parents should be ready to give up things in order to make amends.

Maybe some people should think longer and harder about whether they should have kids; remind them that, once they're finished dressing their little babies like dollies, there is a job to do to make them into responsible members of society. Otherwise we might as well say, no need to teach your kids to be responsible members of society because there is no come-back at all on the feckless parents, and the rest of us will pick up the tab.

Kids going bad is not always to do with bad parenting though. Of course it is SOMETIMES. But not in all cases :/

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Shaun

I confess with no sense of bitterness or anger towards my mother, that she did hit me if I did something (very) wrong, and I do stand by the fact that it helps. I never had any bruises or psychological damage from it and I think penalising parents for it because of some extreme cases in the media is absurd.

I agree 100% with this.

I was smacked as a child. It taught me to listen to my parents. I'm not emotionally scarred over it, it did me no harm at all. Nowadays parents are looked down on for smacking their kids, and Im told (?) its against the law. Pathetic.

How can people be expected to get unruly kids to listen to them when they arent allowed to discipline them?

(However the 'kid; in this case was 18. We dont know how he was brought up or anything. Could be that he was the perfect child until he hit 17 or something and got in with the wrong crowd or something. To lay the blame on the parents for the action of an adult is ****ing ridiculous tbh. Just thought I would add this bit incase it came across that I was blaming bad parenting for riots etc )

[tmi]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I agree 100% with this.

I was smacked as a child. It taught me to listen to my parents. I'm not emotionally scarred over it, it did me no harm at all. Nowadays parents are looked down on for smacking their kids, and Im told (?) its against the law. Pathetic.

How can people be expected to get unruly kids to listen to them when they arent allowed to discipline them?

(However the 'kid; in this case was 18. We dont know how he was brought up or anything. Could be that he was the perfect child until he hit 17 or something and got in with the wrong crowd or something. To lay the blame on the parents for the action of an adult is ****ing ridiculous tbh. Just thought I would add this bit incase it came across that I was blaming bad parenting for riots etc )

I know you cannot blame everything on the parents, but where were the parents when the kids was roaming the streets, I have teenagers and they both in at 7.30 every nite, if they not going looking for them. If something happened like that where I lived I would have rounded the kids up.
I was brought up know the difference of right and wrong and the fundamental rule, you are responsible for your actions. Sometimes it can be peer pressure as well on the kids. I teach mine if they act like @rseholes dont bother with them if I dont like my childrens friend and they are dimwits they dont come in my home. Tough love. I stopped my boy bothering with one boy and he has been expelled from school three times and he is 13 I think my boy has now learned he not the boy he thought.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by tmi

I know you cannot blame everything on the parents, but where were the parents when the kids was roaming the streets, I have teenagers and they both in at 7.30 every nite, if they not going looking for them. If something happened like that where I lived I would have rounded the kids up.
I was brought up know the difference of right and wrong and the fundamental rule, you are responsible for your actions. Sometimes it can be peer pressure as well on the kids. I teach mine if they act like @rseholes dont bother with them if I dont like my childrens friend and they are dimwits they dont come in my home. Tough love. I stopped my boy bothering with one boy and he has been expelled from school three times and he is 13 I think my boy has now learned he not the boy he thought.

Maybe inside looking after their other younger kids? I dont know.

All Im saying is its pretty much impossible to control some teenagers. ESPECIALLY an 18 year old, like in this case.

[tmi]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Maybe inside looking after their other younger kids? I dont know.

All Im saying is its pretty much impossible to control some teenagers. ESPECIALLY an 18 year old, like in this case.

I get what your saying they think they are invincible at that age, but if the ground rules are there in the beginning then they set for life, a person personality is made within the first seven years of they're life, people are not born bad things in their life determine that. Have you seen the nannie programme and the youngsters on there at two and three hitting their parents, wtf .Kids only eating rubbish, when I was growing you had what was on your plate otherwise your head was in it.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by tmi

I get what your saying they think they are invincible at that age, but if the ground rules are there in the beginning then they set for life, a person personality is made within the first seven years of they're life, people are not born bad things in their life determine that. Have you seen the nannie programme and the youngsters on there at two and three hitting their parents, wtf .Kids only eating rubbish, when I was growing you had what was on your plate otherwise your head was in it.

I dont agree with this at all.

If this were the case, then how come the siblings of murders, criminals etc. arent bad too? Surely if everything was to do with how you were brought up, then the whole family would be bad...no?

[tmi]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I dont agree with this at all.

If this were the case, then how come the siblings of murders, criminals etc. arent bad too? Surely if everything was to do with how you were brought up, then the whole family would be bad...no?

It dosent work like that if a child feels isolated because maybe one child feels less loved than another. Some people deal with emotions in different ways. People sometimes feel angry and agreesive because they feel left out for one reason or another. Say for instants, a person has two boys they brought up the same way one turns out to be gay the other dosent. What is the reason for that? A foetus up until sixteen weeks is female that might have a lot to
with latter of my arguement, so do how many brother and sister act do you kow that does murder and violent crime.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by tmi

It dosent work like that if a child feels isolated because maybe one child feels less loved than another. Some people deal with emotions in different ways. People sometimes feel angry and agreesive because they feel left out for one reason or another.

So its not to do with how you are brought up then. Its the way you view things...

[tmi]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

So its not to do with how you are brought up then. Its the way you view things...

Not always but perhaps sometimes, if you dress a boy in girls clothes will they become gay no , at the end of the day people are responsible for the things they do no one else . Who knows , well the looting I have had a massive blow my husband lost his job and he the main earner would I do that no. Even if I was starving , so for me it is not the way I view things. Some people think the world owes them a living , they better wake up and smell the coffee, it dont, You get out of the world what you put in, sometimes agression needs to be challeneged into postive things otherise it can eat you up.